Does 1 Thessalonians 4:14-18 Teach Jesus Will Return With Dead Saints Now With Him In Heaven?
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Sadly, the soul sleepers/annihilators dismiss this glimpse of life after death for OT souls just dismiss this as a parable, which makes no sense IF what Jesus said couldn't happen.
He might as well described action on some distant planet, or better yet, some other galaxy.
I don't think unbelievers get a "spiritual body". Believers do, for sure, as Paul wrote in 1 Cor 15.
I think the unsaved get back into their old physical bodies to be burned in the lake of fire, while their souls will be "tormented day and night for ever and ever" according to Rev 20:10.
He might as well described action on some distant planet, or better yet, some other galaxy.
I don't think unbelievers get a "spiritual body". Believers do, for sure, as Paul wrote in 1 Cor 15.
I think the unsaved get back into their old physical bodies to be burned in the lake of fire, while their souls will be "tormented day and night for ever and ever" according to Rev 20:10.
"9 After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight." 10 They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. 11 “Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.”--Acts 1:9-10
Well then you'd be wrong. Don't you understand that the some of the gospels give more information, some less? That is why I say it is vital NOT to isolate scripture, but to test scripture against scripture and look it as a whole, unless of course you have some strange reason for not believing Luke's account in Acts. Luke clearly says that after Christ gave instructions to the apostles he ascended. The whole point of Him walking on the earth before His ascension was to prove He was alive! Read there rest of Acts 1 which gives the account of His ascension.
Acts Chapter One
In my former book, Theophilus, I wrote about all that Jesus began to do and to teach 2 until the day he was taken up to heaven, after giving instructions through the Holy Spirit to the apostles he had chosen. 3 After his suffering, he presented himself to them and gave many convincing proofs that he was alive. He appeared to them over a period of forty days and spoke about the kingdom of God. 4 On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: “Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about. 5 For John baptized with[a] water, but in a few days you will be baptized with[b] the Holy Spirit.”
The Ascension
6 Then they gathered around him and asked him, “Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?”
7 He said to them: “It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. 8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”
9 After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight.
10 They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. 11 “Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.”
FG2--it isn't about what any of us think--it is to read and understand what GOD is saying to us--not what you have been taught.
"Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true. "--Acts 17:11
A human body is matter. If a fire does not go out it will be annihilated and cease to exist--God would have to create a new noncombustible body and a whole other set of rules for a person to be tormented forever. But again this idea flies in the face of rationality never mind that is nowhere to be found in scriptures other than the handful of figurative verses in Revelation.
Death means DEATH. Destroy means DESTROY. Perish means PERISH. If one can change the meaning of the words in scripture then they cease to have any meaning--it all becomes nonsense.
"Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true. "--Acts 17:11
A human body is matter. If a fire does not go out it will be annihilated and cease to exist--God would have to create a new noncombustible body and a whole other set of rules for a person to be tormented forever. But again this idea flies in the face of rationality never mind that is nowhere to be found in scriptures other than the handful of figurative verses in Revelation.
Death means DEATH. Destroy means DESTROY. Perish means PERISH. If one can change the meaning of the words in scripture then they cease to have any meaning--it all becomes nonsense.
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First, Matthew and Mark both state that Jesus ONLY spoke to the people in parables--NO exceptions:
"Jesus spoke all these things to the crowd in parables; he did not say anything to them without using a parable."--Matthew 13:34
“But without a PARABLE spoke He spoke not unto them…” Mark 4:34
(note too, they repeat it twice--making it emphatic)
The parable of the rich man and Lazarus is GROUPED with other parables. People keep saying Jesus used names, but of course it can't be a true story given the details---they simply do not align with what scripture clearly states.
"30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.” --Matthew 13:30
"And he will send his angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens. "--Mark 13:27
"So Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him. "--Hebrews 9:28
"For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. "--1st Thessalonians 4:16-17
"And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also."--John 14:3
"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad. "--2nd Corinthians 5:10
Clearly we DO NOT go to heaven until Christ's Second Coming!
First, Matthew and Mark both state that Jesus ONLY spoke to the people in parables--NO exceptions:
"Jesus spoke all these things to the crowd in parables; he did not say anything to them without using a parable."--Matthew 13:34
“But without a PARABLE spoke He spoke not unto them…” Mark 4:34
(note too, they repeat it twice--making it emphatic)
The parable of the rich man and Lazarus is GROUPED with other parables. People keep saying Jesus used names, but of course it can't be a true story given the details---they simply do not align with what scripture clearly states.
- One huge problem is how are they in heaven or hell before THE JUDGMENT has even occurred?
- Where did either of them get bodies from since the believer does not receive their immortal bodies UNTIL Christ's Second Coming?
- How are they able to converse across a great Chasm?
- How does one in torment even carry on a conversation?
- How is it that people in heaven and hell can even see each other? Not much of a heaven if you could see people in torment for all of eternity.
- How are they even able to locate each other if people have gone to heaven (circumventing the judgment)--there would be billions of people on either side!
"30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.” --Matthew 13:30
"And he will send his angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens. "--Mark 13:27
"So Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him. "--Hebrews 9:28
"For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. "--1st Thessalonians 4:16-17
"And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also."--John 14:3
"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad. "--2nd Corinthians 5:10
Clearly we DO NOT go to heaven until Christ's Second Coming!
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And your group doesn't understand that the Bible uses "sleep" to refer to physical death only, does not include soul sleep.
There are plenty of verses that clearly show the souls of the departed alive and awake.
Probably my favorite verse. This is the verse that drives my views of doctrine and Scripture.
The only thing you're missing here is the soul Yes, the human body is matter. The Bible says "perishable". But the soul is immaterial and therefore imperishable.
I'm tired of your opinions and erroneous misunderstanding of what the Bible means by these words.
My guess is that your side just can't handle a person being "tormented" for eternity. As if God isn't that mean or something.
This isn't about being mean. It's about getting what you ask for.
The Bible clearly indicates that in eternity, there are only 2 places to go to. Either with God, or apart from God.
Those who accept the free gift of eternal life will be with God forever. Those who rejected the free gift have no other place to go than the lake of fire. It's on them, not God. They didn't have to go there.
What I really don't understand is how you guys don't see that to cease to exist means to cease to suffer any consequences.
What you guys call a consequence is laughable. And why don't you understand that your view is EXACTLY what atheists will LOVE to hear. They will agree with you wholeheartedly.
There are plenty of verses that clearly show the souls of the departed alive and awake.
Probably my favorite verse. This is the verse that drives my views of doctrine and Scripture.
The only thing you're missing here is the soul Yes, the human body is matter. The Bible says "perishable". But the soul is immaterial and therefore imperishable.
I'm tired of your opinions and erroneous misunderstanding of what the Bible means by these words.
My guess is that your side just can't handle a person being "tormented" for eternity. As if God isn't that mean or something.
This isn't about being mean. It's about getting what you ask for.
The Bible clearly indicates that in eternity, there are only 2 places to go to. Either with God, or apart from God.
Those who accept the free gift of eternal life will be with God forever. Those who rejected the free gift have no other place to go than the lake of fire. It's on them, not God. They didn't have to go there.
What I really don't understand is how you guys don't see that to cease to exist means to cease to suffer any consequences.
What you guys call a consequence is laughable. And why don't you understand that your view is EXACTLY what atheists will LOVE to hear. They will agree with you wholeheartedly.
"For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in[a] Christ Jesus our Lord. "--Romans 6:23
And you don't seem to understand without the body and soul working in concert a corpse cannot be asleep--one must needs have a soul to be 'asleep'--the whole point of calling it sleep is that Christ is going to wake up ALL of humanity at His Coming! Again you all cling way too tenaciously to what you've been taught without using the critical thinking skills God has given you--it's the same mindset as a cult member--blindly following their leader and neglecting to disseminate scripture as the Bereans--comparing scripture with what PAUL taught them to be certain it was true.
And it's not that we can't handle the 'torment' thing--it's that is blasphemy against God to equate Him with evil and it is NOT SCRIPTURAL. And of course they DO suffer consequences--they lose out on being with God for all eternity in paradise! If you missed out on a billion dollar lotto ticket, you wouldn't think that was of any consequence?
Study the words death, destroy, perish--you will see there are a forest of trees and your 'torment' is thistle in the midst of them. It's so curious when God says "the greatest of these is love" --that you SO want people to suffer. You so want people to be tormented for all of eternity.
You say what we share are our 'opinions' and 'erroneous understandings' but we have used far more verses and rational arguments than you on the side of eternal conscious torment, who believe an outlandish parable is true, and also believe people go straight to heaven or hell, circumventing Christ's Second Coming and The Judgment. I've seen quite a bit of 'made up' and adding to by you and others. And you ignore so much of scripture so that you can hold on to your false narrative.
Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might break the power of him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil— 15 and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death.--Hebrews 2:14-15
And you don't seem to understand without the body and soul working in concert a corpse cannot be asleep--one must needs have a soul to be 'asleep'--the whole point of calling it sleep is that Christ is going to wake up ALL of humanity at His Coming! Again you all cling way too tenaciously to what you've been taught without using the critical thinking skills God has given you--it's the same mindset as a cult member--blindly following their leader and neglecting to disseminate scripture as the Bereans--comparing scripture with what PAUL taught them to be certain it was true.
And it's not that we can't handle the 'torment' thing--it's that is blasphemy against God to equate Him with evil and it is NOT SCRIPTURAL. And of course they DO suffer consequences--they lose out on being with God for all eternity in paradise! If you missed out on a billion dollar lotto ticket, you wouldn't think that was of any consequence?
Study the words death, destroy, perish--you will see there are a forest of trees and your 'torment' is thistle in the midst of them. It's so curious when God says "the greatest of these is love" --that you SO want people to suffer. You so want people to be tormented for all of eternity.
You say what we share are our 'opinions' and 'erroneous understandings' but we have used far more verses and rational arguments than you on the side of eternal conscious torment, who believe an outlandish parable is true, and also believe people go straight to heaven or hell, circumventing Christ's Second Coming and The Judgment. I've seen quite a bit of 'made up' and adding to by you and others. And you ignore so much of scripture so that you can hold on to your false narrative.
Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might break the power of him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil— 15 and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death.--Hebrews 2:14-15
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What else would it mean? Parable or not it is straight forward information. He knows He is giving information that no one else could give. Why tell a lie about it? Makes no sense. Thank you for answering that for me, I did not know that.
A couple Questions
Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
When Christ returns at the 2nd Advent, HOW DOES anyone who took the mark of the beast remain alive? Isn't what is written pretty specific about what 'taking the mark of the beast' means and the outcome of it?
First need to get around that point.
The longest man has ever lived has been 1000 years, if by the time Christ arrives someone is already 100 that would put them at 1100 years old at the end. I am looking to see how that would be 'justice for all'.
Is 'death' during the Lords Day even possible with it having been destroyed and Satan himself bound and sealed?
Do you believe these peoples who number is as the sands of the seas are all 1000 year old flesh men?
Is this lake of fire and BRIMSTONE DIFFERENT than the lake of fire?
Revelation 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and Him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Revelation 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Would you prefer me to put forth my beliefs on this before asking you to answer these questions? I do not wish to trap in any way and am not forming the questions to get any certain response (I detest those who do) just seeking to find the truth.
Do you believe the dead small and great are different than the dead from the sea and from death and hell? 3 different peoples or 2 or all the same?
Who do you believe Christ will reign over with a rod of iron over (and we rule and reign with Him) for the Lords Day?
A couple Questions
Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
When Christ returns at the 2nd Advent, HOW DOES anyone who took the mark of the beast remain alive? Isn't what is written pretty specific about what 'taking the mark of the beast' means and the outcome of it?
First need to get around that point.
The longest man has ever lived has been 1000 years, if by the time Christ arrives someone is already 100 that would put them at 1100 years old at the end. I am looking to see how that would be 'justice for all'.
Is 'death' during the Lords Day even possible with it having been destroyed and Satan himself bound and sealed?
Do you believe these peoples who number is as the sands of the seas are all 1000 year old flesh men?
Is this lake of fire and BRIMSTONE DIFFERENT than the lake of fire?
Revelation 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and Him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Revelation 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Would you prefer me to put forth my beliefs on this before asking you to answer these questions? I do not wish to trap in any way and am not forming the questions to get any certain response (I detest those who do) just seeking to find the truth.
Do you believe the dead small and great are different than the dead from the sea and from death and hell? 3 different peoples or 2 or all the same?
Who do you believe Christ will reign over with a rod of iron over (and we rule and reign with Him) for the Lords Day?
Still you miss it.
HE HADN'T SEEN OR TALKED WITH ANYONE WHEN HE SAID
DON'T HOLD ME UP
I ASCEND,
GO TELL THEM.....
I ASCEND TO......
SO SHE WENT AND TOLD THE BRETHREN
AND HE ASCENDED
HE DESCENDED AND WAS FOUND IN THE MIDST OF THEM AND THE 40 DAYS BEGAN
YOU NEED TO PROVE THAT HE DIDN'T DO WHAT HE SAID HE WAS DOING RIGHT THEN AND THERE.
EVERYTHING YOU PUT FORTH COMES AFTER THE 40 DAYS NOT BEFORE.
HE HADN'T SEEN OR TALKED WITH ANYONE WHEN HE SAID
DON'T HOLD ME UP
I ASCEND,
GO TELL THEM.....
I ASCEND TO......
SO SHE WENT AND TOLD THE BRETHREN
AND HE ASCENDED
HE DESCENDED AND WAS FOUND IN THE MIDST OF THEM AND THE 40 DAYS BEGAN
YOU NEED TO PROVE THAT HE DIDN'T DO WHAT HE SAID HE WAS DOING RIGHT THEN AND THERE.
EVERYTHING YOU PUT FORTH COMES AFTER THE 40 DAYS NOT BEFORE.
Again speaking here you are again speaking from your own ideas; it's astounding how very many verses you choose to ignore. That you believe in the false doctrine of the IMMORTALITY OF THE SOUL. The bible clearly states God ALONE is immortal--we will ONLY put on immortality at Christ's coming--and ONLY the believer receives the gift of eternal life!
You said: "The only thing you're missing here is the soul Yes, the human body is matter. The Bible says "perishable". But the soul is immaterial and therefore imperishable. "
THAT is what the Roman Catholics and Pagans believe. But Scripture says something different.
"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. "--Genesis 2:7
"Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell. "--Matthew 10:28
But there is a spirit within people, the breath of the Almighty within them, that makes them understanding. – Job 32:8
For the Spirit of God has made me, and the breath of the Almighty gives me life. – Job 33:4
If God were to take back his spirit and withdraw his breath, all life would cease, and humanity would turn again to dust. – Job 34:14-15
But if you turn away from them, they panic. When you take away their breath, they die and turn again to dust. When you give them your breath, life is created, and you renew the face of the earth. – Psalm 104:29-30
And THIS is the problem with ALL false doctrine--you COMPLETELY IGNORE what Luke clearly states in ACTS.
It is in the ISOLATION of verses that ALL false doctrine originates. The bible is not meant to be cut up in pieces like some ransom note; the books of the bible are integrated to create a cohesive whole--why on earth can't you see that?
Read ANY notable bible commentary--they will ALL without exception say Christ ascended on the 40th day after his resurrection.
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And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also."--John 14:3
Since HE WAS ABOUT TO DIE AND GO TO HEAVEN, common sense would tell us when WE DIE He is coming to get us and take us to HEAVEN.
1Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
You started not at the SUBJECT change and so MISSED WHAT WE ARE BEING TOLD.
First it is about THOSE HAVING GONE TO SLEEP
DIED.
Then we are told DON'T BE SAD cause just like Christ who died and rose, SO DID THEY, as a matter of fact when Christ comes back those who went to be in that place prepared by Him for us to be with Him, ARE COMING BACK TOO and all the folks in that final generation who endure to the end and don't take the mark of the beast the 'ALIVE AND REMAINING' will be changed and we will all be together.
WHICH DIRECTION IS THIS SPEAKING TO,
John 14:5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by Me.
COMES UNTO THE FATHER, NOT WAIT TILL THEY RETURN.
YOU COMPLETELY IGNORE THE WORDS OF THE LORD LIKE HE DIDN'T SAY THEM BECAUSE IT ISN'T RECORDED IN ACTS?
EVEN I SAY HE ASCENDED ON THE 40TH DAY. I HAVE never disputed that fact, not once.
I just believe what the Lord says he was doing. YOU choose not to. Please just say YOU DON'T BELIEVE WHAT HE SAID HE WAS DOING WAS WHAT HE WAS DOING SO WE CAN MOVE ON
No He's not. Where on earth do you get your fantasies? Rev 20 clearly shows that ONLY saved people are resurrected when King Jesus returns, and rules for 1,000 years. It is only after the Millennial reign that all unbelievers are resurrected, in their natural bodies, and will face the GWT. Then they will be cast into the lake of fire, and we know how that works out, according to Rev 20:10.
I hold onto what the Bible SAYS, unlike yourself.
Why don't you just knock off this childish condescension and try to have a real adult discussion?
My "mindset" is based on what the Bible says. The obvious problem is that you have taken clear and straightforward words and verses and have twisted them into "parables" and symbols so you don't have to face what they actually say.
That's our main difference. I accept the plain words as written. You have to warp them out of shape to fit your fantasies.
What nonsense; as if accountability and punishment is "evil" somehow. What is NOT biblical is your comment here. Like all the others you make.
I hold onto what the Bible SAYS, unlike yourself.
Why don't you just knock off this childish condescension and try to have a real adult discussion?
My "mindset" is based on what the Bible says. The obvious problem is that you have taken clear and straightforward words and verses and have twisted them into "parables" and symbols so you don't have to face what they actually say.
That's our main difference. I accept the plain words as written. You have to warp them out of shape to fit your fantasies.
What nonsense; as if accountability and punishment is "evil" somehow. What is NOT biblical is your comment here. Like all the others you make.
You are welcome. 
The Bible says that all who take the mark will end up in the lake of fire. They don't die immediately, if that was your point.
Matt 5 is clear that some sins/crimes will result in immediate judgment and ending up in the "holding tank" we call hell, or Hades, where the rich man still is, awaiting the GWT.
Since Jesus mentioned murder in Matt 5, which I understand to be a description of the Millennial reign, it seems people can and will kill others.
I haven't given this much thought. I beieve that there will be death, by murder as well as by court justice. Remember, Jesus will reign with a rod of iron. He's no softie. People will be held to the spirit of the law, not as it is now, the letter of the law.
Sounds the same to me. Only context for each should indicate if there are clear differences.
I would hope everyone who participates on these forums had this attitude. But it is clear that there are a whole lot of closed minds, eyes and ears. Go ahead and ask. I've never refused to answer questions.
I view Rev 20:11-15 as the "second resurrection" the one for all the unsaved people of human history. If there are differences, I'm not aware of any.
Great question!!
I bevieve that all saved people from Adam forward will be in the FIRST resurrection (Rev 20:5). That means all the survivors of the Tribulation will be unbelievers. They are the ones who will enter the Millennial reign of Christ. And that is why He must rule with that rod of iron. I don't think His subjects are going to be all that happy to be held to the spirit of the law.
iow, no one will get away with anything. Quite the opposite, in fact. And that will cause great resentment.
I had grown up being taught a pretrib rapture. And Only believers will enter the Millennial reign. It bothered me greatly that there will be a global rebellion against King Jesus. I couldn't figure out why believers would rebel like that?
When I finally realized that the single resurrection occurs when King Jesus returns, and realized that only unbelievers, survivors of the Trib, are left to populate the earth, it all began to make sense for me.
I just can't imagine a population of believers would rebel against King Jesus at the end of 1,000 years. But I can easily imagine a population of unbelievers getting extremely resentful at being held accountable for the spirit of the law (Matt 5).
How do you see it?
The Bible says that all who take the mark will end up in the lake of fire. They don't die immediately, if that was your point.
Matt 5 is clear that some sins/crimes will result in immediate judgment and ending up in the "holding tank" we call hell, or Hades, where the rich man still is, awaiting the GWT.
Since Jesus mentioned murder in Matt 5, which I understand to be a description of the Millennial reign, it seems people can and will kill others.
I haven't given this much thought. I beieve that there will be death, by murder as well as by court justice. Remember, Jesus will reign with a rod of iron. He's no softie. People will be held to the spirit of the law, not as it is now, the letter of the law.
Sounds the same to me. Only context for each should indicate if there are clear differences.
I would hope everyone who participates on these forums had this attitude. But it is clear that there are a whole lot of closed minds, eyes and ears. Go ahead and ask. I've never refused to answer questions.
I view Rev 20:11-15 as the "second resurrection" the one for all the unsaved people of human history. If there are differences, I'm not aware of any.
Great question!!
I bevieve that all saved people from Adam forward will be in the FIRST resurrection (Rev 20:5). That means all the survivors of the Tribulation will be unbelievers. They are the ones who will enter the Millennial reign of Christ. And that is why He must rule with that rod of iron. I don't think His subjects are going to be all that happy to be held to the spirit of the law.
iow, no one will get away with anything. Quite the opposite, in fact. And that will cause great resentment.
I had grown up being taught a pretrib rapture. And Only believers will enter the Millennial reign. It bothered me greatly that there will be a global rebellion against King Jesus. I couldn't figure out why believers would rebel like that?
When I finally realized that the single resurrection occurs when King Jesus returns, and realized that only unbelievers, survivors of the Trib, are left to populate the earth, it all began to make sense for me.
I just can't imagine a population of believers would rebel against King Jesus at the end of 1,000 years. But I can easily imagine a population of unbelievers getting extremely resentful at being held accountable for the spirit of the law (Matt 5).
How do you see it?