Jesus comes immediately AFTER the tribulation, there is no Left Behind Secret Rapture=Stop causing fear.
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^ I see that passage (Dan9:26b especially) as corresponding with (among other passages) 1 John 2:18's saying, "...as YE HAVE HEARD that antichrist IS COMING" - https://biblehub.com/text/1_john/2-18.htm ... since "ye have heard" is a phrase used (like in Matthew) to speak to that which has been spoken of in OT Scriptures... so that when we look back into the OT to where this "COMING / COMES" (of one known as "anti-christ") might be referred to, Daniel 9:26b's wording "fits" just such a thing... "[of the prince] THAT SHALL COME"... In the text, these words would be superfluous if referring to the same person having already been mentioned in v.25.
--"whose COMING [/ARRIVAL / ADVENT / PRESENCE / parousia] is after the working of Satan..." 2Th2:9a
[another corresponding passage (close to 2Th2:9a) that I've referred to in past posts will have to wait for a later post... I'm outta time, for now = ) ]
--"whose COMING [/ARRIVAL / ADVENT / PRESENCE / parousia] is after the working of Satan..." 2Th2:9a
[another corresponding passage (close to 2Th2:9a) that I've referred to in past posts will have to wait for a later post... I'm outta time, for now = ) ]
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You really do TWIST Scripture.
Look at the Tanakh/Hebrew: THIS IS NOT pre-trib Rapture
12 And it shall come to pass on that day, that the Lord shall gather from the flood of the river to the stream of Egypt, and you shall be gathered one by one, O children of Israel.
13 And it shall come to pass on that day, that a great shofar shall be sounded, and those lost in the land of Assyria and those exiled in the land of Egypt shall come and they shall prostrate themselves before the Lord on the holy mount in Jerusalem.
NOWHERE DOES IT MENTION GATHERING FROM HEAVEN!
ISRAEL IS NO LONGER IN EGYPT OR ASSYRIA...THIS HAS BEEN FULFILLED!
Look at the Tanakh/Hebrew: THIS IS NOT pre-trib Rapture
12 And it shall come to pass on that day, that the Lord shall gather from the flood of the river to the stream of Egypt, and you shall be gathered one by one, O children of Israel.
13 And it shall come to pass on that day, that a great shofar shall be sounded, and those lost in the land of Assyria and those exiled in the land of Egypt shall come and they shall prostrate themselves before the Lord on the holy mount in Jerusalem.
NOWHERE DOES IT MENTION GATHERING FROM HEAVEN!
ISRAEL IS NO LONGER IN EGYPT OR ASSYRIA...THIS HAS BEEN FULFILLED!
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How could he have been doing that if it didn't exist in anyone's mind prior to the last "500 years," according to what you said in a recent post?
At least try to be consistent within your own fairy tale. = D
Not what I read him to be saying.
But I explained that already.
You mean, "the lie" that did not exist until something like "500 years ago" (according to what you said earlier), so that Irenaeus could not possibly have even been addressing such a "lie" coz no one had fathomed it yet (till 500 years ago)?... but somehow you have him covering that subject?
[ ♫ doo-doo-doo-doo]
At least try to be consistent within your own fairy tale. = D
Not what I read him to be saying.
But I explained that already.
You mean, "the lie" that did not exist until something like "500 years ago" (according to what you said earlier), so that Irenaeus could not possibly have even been addressing such a "lie" coz no one had fathomed it yet (till 500 years ago)?... but somehow you have him covering that subject?
[ ♫ doo-doo-doo-doo]
1. First of All, Iraneaus claims when in the end. The end is After Tribulation.
2. Then he finishes with For this is the last contest of the righteous, in which, when they overcome, they are crowned with incorruption.
He cannot be any CLEARER and you still are twisting his words!
Isn't it obvious that this has nothing to do with the Rapture? It is about the gathering of the Jews (children of Israel) that will be brought to the land of Israel from all around the world AFTER the Second Coming of Christ.
So you hate the Pre-Tribulation Rapture? Perhaps you can ask the Lord to leave you behind to go through the Tribulation.
So you hate the Pre-Tribulation Rapture? Perhaps you can ask the Lord to leave you behind to go through the Tribulation.
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There is no twisting of the Scripture if you simply take John 14:1-3 in its plain literal sense. Instead of saying "You will go through the Tribulation" Christ said "Let not your heart be troubled". That should settle the matter. And the Church Fathers did teach that there will be a Pre-Tribulation Rapture. I already posted a link for you.
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Why would our hearts be Troubled during Tribulation?
The Wrath of God is not against us.
I think people would be like, 7 more years, HEAVEN!!!
Not even 7, God said He would shorten the days for the Elect's sake.
I don't see anyone being worried during Tribulation.
Death, survival, whatever, we are talking we know the finish Line and that would hype us up!
The Wrath of God is not against us.
I think people would be like, 7 more years, HEAVEN!!!
Not even 7, God said He would shorten the days for the Elect's sake.
I don't see anyone being worried during Tribulation.
Death, survival, whatever, we are talking we know the finish Line and that would hype us up!
Then why would God cause Christians to face His wrath by going through the Tribulation? The very fact that the Bible says that we (Christians) are NOT appointed to wrath should have settled the matter for you. And if Christians were supposed to go through the Tribulation, then Jesus would have said in John 14:1-3 "You will go through the Tribulation, but let not your heart be troubled". Do you see the absurdity?
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Two things:
I do not believe Matthew 24 (or Mk or Lk) is making the point of: "a gathering FROM HEAVEN" in this CONTEXT (the Olivet Discourse).
Just like the following passage does not mean that (or the "sending" to that either):
Jeremiah 49:36 -
And I will bring upon Elam the four winds from the four quarters of heaven. And I will scatter them to all those winds, and there shall be no nation to which those driven out of Elam shall not come.
[similar wording in Nehemiah somewhere; and usually "heaven" stated in the singular, as it is in one of these Gospels / Olivet Discourse passages we're covering... but still referring to the nations to which they were SCATTERED]
... rather, "from the ends of the heavens to the ends of them" refers to "from the extremities"... no place left out, from where they'll be gathered.
In addition, since there's a gathering of ppl from the earth into one place upon the earth IN THIS Isa27:12-13,9 passage (compare verse 9 with both Rom11:27 and Dan9:24-27's prophecy re: Israel), it is not necessary to include every detail (injected INTO THIS PASSAGE) which will ALSO occur... like Daniel being told in 12:13 he will "[rest (in death)] and STAND IN THY LOT [be resurrected='to stand again [on the earth]'] at the END of the DAYS [at the end of the 'days' referred to IN THAT CONTEXT, i.e. at the END of the TRIB]" and in Dan 12:12's "BLESSED is he that waiteth AND COMETH TO [i.e. as still-living] the 1335 days" (for ENTRANCE INTO the MK age in mortal body, as a "saint / righteous / believer / faithful" person)
I've run out of time... my apologies. Will try to pick up again later.
I do not believe Matthew 24 (or Mk or Lk) is making the point of: "a gathering FROM HEAVEN" in this CONTEXT (the Olivet Discourse).
Just like the following passage does not mean that (or the "sending" to that either):
Jeremiah 49:36 -
And I will bring upon Elam the four winds from the four quarters of heaven. And I will scatter them to all those winds, and there shall be no nation to which those driven out of Elam shall not come.
[similar wording in Nehemiah somewhere; and usually "heaven" stated in the singular, as it is in one of these Gospels / Olivet Discourse passages we're covering... but still referring to the nations to which they were SCATTERED]
... rather, "from the ends of the heavens to the ends of them" refers to "from the extremities"... no place left out, from where they'll be gathered.
In addition, since there's a gathering of ppl from the earth into one place upon the earth IN THIS Isa27:12-13,9 passage (compare verse 9 with both Rom11:27 and Dan9:24-27's prophecy re: Israel), it is not necessary to include every detail (injected INTO THIS PASSAGE) which will ALSO occur... like Daniel being told in 12:13 he will "[rest (in death)] and STAND IN THY LOT [be resurrected='to stand again [on the earth]'] at the END of the DAYS [at the end of the 'days' referred to IN THAT CONTEXT, i.e. at the END of the TRIB]" and in Dan 12:12's "BLESSED is he that waiteth AND COMETH TO [i.e. as still-living] the 1335 days" (for ENTRANCE INTO the MK age in mortal body, as a "saint / righteous / believer / faithful" person)
I've run out of time... my apologies. Will try to pick up again later.
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Meant to add...
of course this is not the "Rapture" because Matthew 24 (and ALL of the Olivet Discourse, for that matter) is NOT covering the Subject of "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]" AT ALL, ANYWHERE!
The "gathering" in Matthew 24 (etc) being spoken about is to / for / about the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age (their ENTRANCE into THAT time-period)
of course this is not the "Rapture" because Matthew 24 (and ALL of the Olivet Discourse, for that matter) is NOT covering the Subject of "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]" AT ALL, ANYWHERE!
The "gathering" in Matthew 24 (etc) being spoken about is to / for / about the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age (their ENTRANCE into THAT time-period)
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Hello- I may be misunderstanding you, but I wan't trying to say the Last Day would be before the tribulation...The last day means the last day of this age, which would at the Second Coming, then we go into the 'age that is to come..' i.e. the 1000 year reign on earth. Am I understanding what you were saying?
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How could he have been doing that if it didn't exist in anyone's mind prior to the last "500 years," according to what you said in a recent post?
At least try to be consistent within your own fairy tale. = D
Not what I read him to be saying.
But I explained that already.
You mean, "the lie" that did not exist until something like "500 years ago" (according to what you said earlier), so that Irenaeus could not possibly have even been addressing such a "lie" coz no one had fathomed it yet (till 500 years ago)?... but somehow you have him covering that subject?
[ ♫ doo-doo-doo-doo]
At least try to be consistent within your own fairy tale. = D
Not what I read him to be saying.
But I explained that already.
You mean, "the lie" that did not exist until something like "500 years ago" (according to what you said earlier), so that Irenaeus could not possibly have even been addressing such a "lie" coz no one had fathomed it yet (till 500 years ago)?... but somehow you have him covering that subject?
[ ♫ doo-doo-doo-doo]
lol