Revelation's Mystery Author? Rev 1:1-3 suggests a third-party author
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These are all true, but I don't think those are real time events, in other words John is being shown futuristic visions of the Church Alders speaking, the Great Multitude are the Raptured, Church Age, mostly Gentiles with some Jewish Saints who were Raptured pre trib. So, the can't be there until the Rapture. The Martyrs of the 70th week have not even happened yet, the Four Beasts are probably the covering Angels of God, so that's a possibility, but I think Jesus showed John these visions, and some Angels spoke also, but those people John saw in spoke unto in the Spiritual Realm of God, which is not bound by time, were not actual events, of course, but future events John was allowed to see ahead of time.
I think he was actually there to see future events happen. That's because he is writing things down and he brings that literal and physical book back with him to Patmos. IOW, I think he physically was moved forward in time, rather than spiritually experiencing visions of the future.
seems Paul also did when regarding his apocalypse ( revelation ) as well
“I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knowethsuch an one caught up to the third heaven.”
2 Corinthians 12:2 KJV
and why was he not referring to someone else?
Seems to be a lot of people's interpretation of that passage but I'm confused as to why quite frankly it's so incredibly clear when it's pretty vague. I understand that what was revealed to John was unlikely to have occurred 14 years prior but since that's the only person that it happened to and that it is possible that he was a long time in writing it down?
yeah I didn’t say it’s incredibly clear . But the reason I believe Paul is speaking of himself is the context that he’s talking about his great revelations that he received and will receive and also speaks of hearing things unlawful to be uttered. How would he know that if it wasn’t something lawful to speak of of it wasn’t him ?
again o say this often I can only share my own views that I come to from scriptire doesn’t mean it’s always right. But I tend to have that same view of everyone in a discussion forum we can only discuss and share things we come to ourself. And the. Discuss them and hear other ideas and points that others have come to from thier own studies
that’s how discussion works. I myself believe Paul’s speaking of himself given the context and also given the apocalypse of Paul. Which would probably be another contention point .
“It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord. I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth
such an one caught up to the third heaven. And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter. Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities.”
2 Corinthians 12:1-5 KJV
I believe Paul’s talking about himself in the third person right there because he is talking about the great revelations he’s received in this place and other places
Thanks for responding...I'm glad you were clear. Some people aren't and it gets rather irritating lol.
I'd get into it further and apologies for the "non-reply" but I'd have to end up defaulting to "God knoweth" so I don't see any real point at present.
Perhaps later I can figure out a Godly purpose in doing so but it's like a lot of these little "not enough data" tangents...the use is quite narrow and in all likelihood not ever salvific (though I don't discount that possibility for the billions of people to have lived and what their individual hinge pins/lynch pins are)
More likely it'd just derail or cause consternation or needless dissent so alas... I do appreciate it though
2Co 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven.
2Co 12:3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth
2Co 12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
2Co 12:5 Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities.
This clearly proves Paul is not talking about himself, but someone else. He gives glory to that other person but says he would not give himself any such glory except regarding his infirmities.
such an one caught up to the third heaven.2Co 12:3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth
2Co 12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
2Co 12:5 Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities.
This clearly proves Paul is not talking about himself, but someone else. He gives glory to that other person but says he would not give himself any such glory except regarding his infirmities.
Thanks for responding...I'm glad you were clear. Some people aren't and it gets rather irritating lol.
I'd get into it further and apologies for the "non-reply" but I'd have to end up defaulting to "God knoweth" so I don't see any real point at present.
Perhaps later I can figure out a Godly purpose in doing so but it's like a lot of these little "not enough data" tangents...the use is quite narrow and in all likelihood not ever salvific (though I don't discount that possibility for the billions of people to have lived and what their individual hinge pins/lynch pins are)
More likely it'd just derail or cause consternation or needless dissent so alas... I do appreciate it though
oh there’s no need to apologize or feel
Like you have to reply or explain anything like I was saying it’s a discussion forum. Of everything was perfectly clear we would all have much closer understanding