NOT EVERYONE WHO BELIEVES WILL BE SAVED

[Pilgrimshope]

I just showed you 2 lists that both say-will not enter Gods kingdom. So the righteous do not do those sins. There is a whole bible and if it says will not enter Gods kingdom, best to believe it. After all Jesus said--Man does not live by bread alone, but by every utterance from God. He meant it.
Right you speak of the LAW. Some sins are not in the law. Swearing isnt mentioned, masturbation isnt mentioned as keeping one out of Gods kingdom. Those 2lists keep one out of Gods kingdom. There are many little sins i am sure, but they do not say will keep one out of Gods kingdom. No one is perfect. God knows that, but those 2 lists are unacceptable. And that is why it is still grace because all sin. There is no grace if one is practicing unacceptable sins.

yeah and I’ve shown you several scriptures of what Jesus said to his disciples about sin and forgiveness

what your not grasping is that sin isnt an action it’s the part of humanity That is corrupted by the knowledge of evil

sin is part of humanity and lives within the flesh

“For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:18-19, 21, 23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we have to deal with sin inside of us here

“For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭7:21-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

your looking at it like sin is something we do and can overcome without believing the truth And changing what’s in the heart of faith . Sin is something that is within mans mind and heart that heart produces sinful actions it’s the only reason we sin

our flesh has a Will it’s own and it came from transgression of this commandment good and evil was never meant for man

“But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

now mankind has this problem

I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.”

that’s why sinners sin you have to cut the root out and the actions will follow of you don’t harbor list in your heart like Christ teaches us we’re never going to act in lust and commit sexyal
Immorality it’s a root within us that produces the fruit of our actions your simply not hearing me but that’s ok

to fix our issue with sin we have to let the gospel fix our belief inside our heart that’s what sets us free from sins power and dominion over us it’s the only way out of sin to do repent and believe the gospel

your looking at it by your own works and will never lead to freedom from Thy at law of sin in us it’s always going to be contending good v evil but it doesn’t have to be like That there’s freedom in Christ from that law of sin

“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the place to start is to understand about being merciful when someone sins against you

“Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:36-38‬ ‭

I’ve always found people focused on sin to be missing the point of the gospel focus l. What Jesus says like above there mercy is the way out of sin


I don’t think your understanding that belief is what saves us because that’s where our actions come from we commit sin because we believe wrong in our heart

but you know your free to believe as you will I believe the gospel and so I have to stick with what Jesus Christ taught

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s about having faith in him and what he said will save us. I promise it won’t turn your eyes to who may have sinned but will turn them to the Lord and his righteousness


when it comes to sin it’s 100 percent about repentance and remission of sins through Christ

“And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And ye are witnesses of these things.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭24:46-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That’s The gospel we can’t overcome sin by our efforts and works it has to be based on faith created by believing the gospel and it has to remain in faith believing the gospel the fruits will come from faith

but again that’s just my belief and what I see in scripture we’re of course supposed to have the attitude not to sin , but we still do and when we do we’re taught our mercy and forgiveness d have his promise it’s sort of simple for me

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

There’s nothing to be added or taken from that it’s just what it is

 

[EddieRamos]

You are at your own this time even the YLT has left you behind which says the "god" of this world in small capital "g".

How am I trying to "bend the context"? I just showed you (in post #191) that everywhere we look in the scriptures, to learn who had the power to blind (physically or spiritually), and in not a single passage do we read that Satan blinded anyone. But in numerous passages do we read that it was always God who did the blinding. Now, I don't know how much research you actually did in the scriptures themselves with the information I provided, but just based on your reply above, it seems that instead, you went to other translations to resolve this for you. I can't stress enough that relying on the wisdom of men is never the way to truth. Why not just approach the scriptures and ask yourself this question? Does the Bible either confirm or deny what I am putting forth from the scriptures? If you find a passage that states the Satan has blinded someone (in the same manner that we have numerous passages that declare that God has done this), then my claim, that there is no record of Satan blinding anyone, would be false.

What are we to do when we come across an obscure passage like 2 Corinthians 4:4? Look at the immediate context, of course, but do we stop there? No, there has to be harmony within the whole of the scriptures. Now, just to show you what I mean by "obscure passage" (because so many are convinced that this passage is cut and dry), let's read 2 Corinthians 4:4 this way.

2 Corinthians 4:4 (KJV 1900)
In whom the theos of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of theos, should shine unto them.

So, the second half of this verse is not too difficult to figure out because we know from the scriptures that Christ is the image, not of any god, but of the one true God Almighty. But now, the next part we have to contend with is the fact that theos is the one who has blinded the minds of them which believe not. So, here we know for sure that this word, depending on the context it's found in, can also be speaking of a false god (the Devil). So, what's going to help us determine which "theos" is in view here? Well, what is this "theos" doing in this passage? Again, he's blinding the minds of them which believe not.

I won't argue that our immediate thought (including mine) is that it makes no sense for God to be that theos, since he is the one who sent the gospel into the world so that people would become saved. Why then would he be the one to blind anyone from seeing and understanding the truth? (this answer has to do with the doctrine of election). It just wouldn't make sense, logically. And I imagine that this was, and is, the logic of most everyone who comes across this passage. As a matter of fact, when this was shown to me for the first time, I always believed as you do. But as I continued to study this on my own, to find ether correction or agreement, letting the Bible be my own authority, I realized I could find no evidence that 2 Corinthians 4:4 wasn't speaking of GOD.

Even today, I still examine and re-examine this by doing exactly what we're doing now. By dialoguing with people who disagree, in order to see what, in the scriptures, they are reading to come to the conclusion that this is speaking about Satan rather than God. And yes, you're correct, every Bible translation, interlinear and commentary out there may very well all be in agreement with Satan being the god of this world who has done the blinding. But if the Word of God disagrees with every single one of them, does that mean that consensus equates to truth? The Bible teaches us a very important principle concerning this very question.

In 1 Kings 22, we are given an account of a wicked king of Israel (Ahab) who wants to go to battle, and so he inquires of his prophets (as the custom was) to know whether or not GOD would grant him the victory that he desired. And so, here come in 400 prophets of Israel, with one voice, declaring, "Thus saith the Lord", and proclaim victory for the king. But with this king, was another king, a good king named Jehoshaphat. And Jehoshaphat asks king Ahab if there's anyone else that they may inquire of before going into battle with him. And Ahab knew of 1 other prophet named Michaiah, but the king hated him because he only prophesied evil things to the king and never good things. As it turns out, in this account, Michaiah was he only true prophet of God, and he told the king that the king would go to battle and die.

But before he gets to bring this message to the king, one of the 400 prophets was sent to fetch Michaiah, and told him that his message better be the same as all the other prophets who prophesied victory to the king. And here is what Michaiah said:

1 Kings 22:14 (KJV 1900)
And Micaiah said, As the Lord liveth, what the Lord saith unto me, that will I speak.

Now Zedekiah (one of the 400 prophets, who also appears to be the chief speaker) was highly offended when Michaiah brought his message which disagreed with the 400 prophets, and said this to Michaiah:

1 Kings 22:24 (KJV 1900)
But Zedekiah the son of Chenaanah went near, and smote Micaiah on the cheek, and said, Which way went the Spirit of the Lord FROM ME to speak unto thee?

The point here is, that no matter how high we regard the input of others to be (because we may consider them to be men of God), in their works of translations or in any other thing that was not inspired by God, that we can't let their words determine something to be truth, even when their words all agree. Now, this doesn't mean that every single translator was not truly saved, but this may have been the limit of their understanding at the time. But we should always keep this account in mind and say to ourselves, "what the Lord saith unto me, that will I speak". When we rely solely on the Word of Truth and go to it for our confirmation or correction, then God will speak to us through His word by agreeing or contradicting what doctrine we are trying to figure out. And he will open up our understanding as time progresses in accordance with his perfect will. Incidentally, God could have very well allowed all the translators and commentators to agree in order to test us, to see who we would trust more.

So, let's ask another question regarding 2 Corinthians 4:4. Since there is no evidence anywhere in the scriptures that Satan has blinded anyone, is there any evidence that God has? Yes, there is (see Post #191). But since 2 Corinthians 4:4 is specifically referring to theos blinding the minds of them which believe not so that the gospel would not shine unto them, meaning, so that they don't hear and become saved, we should also ask, has God ever done this? The answer is once again, yes.

John 12:37–41 (KJV 1900)
But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him: 38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed? 39 Therefore they COULD NOT believe, because that Esaias said again, 40 He (meaning GOD) hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them. 41 These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him (GOD).

And there are many more passages like this. They could not believe because God (and God is theos) blinded them, so that they should not see, nor understand and be converted. This is the very reason Christ spoke in parables and not plainly.

Matthew 13:10–16 (KJV 1900)
And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? 11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given UNTO YOU to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is NOT given. 12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. 13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. 14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: 15 For this people’s heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. 16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

So, perhaps you are right, that I might be on my own with this doctrine (even though I'm not), but nonetheless, I have neither found nor received any evidence in the scriptures that points to the contrary. And if agreement in the scriptures is what I continue to find, then God forbid that I should reject that, to side with the majority.

 

[Jocund]

How am I trying to "bend the context"? I just showed you (in post #191) that everywhere we look in the scriptures, to learn who had the power to blind (physically or spiritually), and in not a single passage do we read that Satan blinded anyone. But in numerous passages do we read that it was always God who did the blinding. Now, I don't know how much research you actually did in the scriptures themselves with the information I provided, but just based on your reply above, it seems that instead, you went to other translations to resolve this for you. I can't stress enough that relying on the wisdom of men is never the way to truth. Why not just approach the scriptures and ask yourself this question? Does the Bible either confirm or deny what I am putting forth from the scriptures? If you find a passage that states the Satan has blinded someone (in the same manner that we have numerous passages that declare that God has done this), then my claim, that there is no record of Satan blinding anyone, would be false.

What are we to do when we come across an obscure passage like 2 Corinthians 4:4? Look at the immediate context, of course, but do we stop there? No, there has to be harmony within the whole of the scriptures. Now, just to show you what I mean by "obscure passage" (because so many are convinced that this passage is cut and dry), let's read 2 Corinthians 4:4 this way.

2 Corinthians 4:4 (KJV 1900)
In whom the theos of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of theos, should shine unto them.

So, the second half of this verse is not too difficult to figure out because we know from the scriptures that Christ is the image, not of any god, but of the one true God Almighty. But now, the next part we have to contend with is the fact that theos is the one who has blinded the minds of them which believe not. So, here we know for sure that this word, depending on the context it's found in, can also be speaking of a false god (the Devil). So, what's going to help us determine which "theos" is in view here? Well, what is this "theos" doing in this passage? Again, he's blinding the minds of them which believe not.

I won't argue that our immediate thought (including mine) is that it makes no sense for God to be that theos, since he is the one who sent the gospel into the world so that people would become saved. Why then would he be the one to blind anyone from seeing and understanding the truth? (this answer has to do with the doctrine of election). It just wouldn't make sense, logically. And I imagine that this was, and is, the logic of most everyone who comes across this passage. As a matter of fact, when this was shown to me for the first time, I always believed as you do. But as I continued to study this on my own, to find ether correction or agreement, letting the Bible be my own authority, I realized I could find no evidence that 2 Corinthians 4:4 wasn't speaking of GOD.

Even today, I still examine and re-examine this by doing exactly what we're doing now. By dialoguing with people who disagree, in order to see what, in the scriptures, they are reading to come to the conclusion that this is speaking about Satan rather than God. And yes, you're correct, every Bible translation, interlinear and commentary out there may very well all be in agreement with Satan being the god of this world who has done the blinding. But if the Word of God disagrees with every single one of them, does that mean that consensus equates to truth? The Bible teaches us a very important principle concerning this very question.

In 1 Kings 22, we are given an account of a wicked king of Israel (Ahab) who wants to go to battle, and so he inquires of his prophets (as the custom was) to know whether or not GOD would grant him the victory that he desired. And so, here come in 400 prophets of Israel, with one voice, declaring, "Thus saith the Lord", and proclaim victory for the king. But with this king, was another king, a good king named Jehoshaphat. And Jehoshaphat asks king Ahab if there's anyone else that they may inquire of before going into battle with him. And Ahab knew of 1 other prophet named Michaiah, but the king hated him because he only prophesied evil things to the king and never good things. As it turns out, in this account, Michaiah was he only true prophet of God, and he told the king that the king would go to battle and die.

But before he gets to bring this message to the king, one of the 400 prophets was sent to fetch Michaiah, and told him that his message better be the same as all the other prophets who prophesied victory to the king. And here is what Michaiah said:

1 Kings 22:14 (KJV 1900)
And Micaiah said, As the Lord liveth, what the Lord saith unto me, that will I speak.

Now Zedekiah (one of the 400 prophets, who also appears to be the chief speaker) was highly offended when Michaiah brought his message which disagreed with the 400 prophets, and said this to Michaiah:

1 Kings 22:24 (KJV 1900)
But Zedekiah the son of Chenaanah went near, and smote Micaiah on the cheek, and said, Which way went the Spirit of the Lord FROM ME to speak unto thee?

The point here is, that no matter how high we regard the input of others to be (because we may consider them to be men of God), in their works of translations or in any other thing that was not inspired by God, that we can't let their words determine something to be truth, even when their words all agree. Now, this doesn't mean that every single translator was not truly saved, but this may have been the limit of their understanding at the time. But we should always keep this account in mind and say to ourselves, "what the Lord saith unto me, that will I speak". When we rely solely on the Word of Truth and go to it for our confirmation or correction, then God will speak to us through His word by agreeing or contradicting what doctrine we are trying to figure out. And he will open up our understanding as time progresses in accordance with his perfect will. Incidentally, God could have very well allowed all the translators and commentators to agree in order to test us, to see who we would trust more.

So, let's ask another question regarding 2 Corinthians 4:4. Since there is no evidence anywhere in the scriptures that Satan has blinded anyone, is there any evidence that God has? Yes, there is (see Post #191). But since 2 Corinthians 4:4 is specifically referring to theos blinding the minds of them which believe not so that the gospel would not shine unto them, meaning, so that they don't hear and become saved, we should also ask, has God ever done this? The answer is once again, yes.

John 12:37–41 (KJV 1900)
But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him: 38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed? 39 Therefore they COULD NOT believe, because that Esaias said again, 40 He (meaning GOD) hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them. 41 These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him (GOD).

And there are many more passages like this. They could not believe because God (and God is theos) blinded them, so that they should not see, nor understand and be converted. This is the very reason Christ spoke in parables and not plainly.

Matthew 13:10–16 (KJV 1900)
And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? 11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given UNTO YOU to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is NOT given. 12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. 13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. 14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: 15 For this people’s heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. 16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

So, perhaps you are right, that I might be on my own with this doctrine (even though I'm not), but nonetheless, I have neither found nor received any evidence in the scriptures that points to the contrary. And if agreement in the scriptures is what I continue to find, then God forbid that I should reject that, to side with the majority.

"2 Cor 4:4 = God, not Satan"

The case you make is consistent but not necessarily true.

And ultimately the distinction in this case is unimportant.

 

[keiw]

yeah and I’ve shown you several scriptures of what Jesus said to his disciples about sin and forgiveness

what your not grasping is that sin isnt an action it’s the part of humanity That is corrupted by the knowledge of evil

sin is part of humanity and lives within the flesh

“For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:18-19, 21, 23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we have to deal with sin inside of us here

“For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭7:21-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

your looking at it like sin is something we do and can overcome without believing the truth And changing what’s in the heart of faith . Sin is something that is within mans mind and heart that heart produces sinful actions it’s the only reason we sin

our flesh has a Will it’s own and it came from transgression of this commandment good and evil was never meant for man

“But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

now mankind has this problem

I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.”

that’s why sinners sin you have to cut the root out and the actions will follow of you don’t harbor list in your heart like Christ teaches us we’re never going to act in lust and commit sexyal
Immorality it’s a root within us that produces the fruit of our actions your simply not hearing me but that’s ok

to fix our issue with sin we have to let the gospel fix our belief inside our heart that’s what sets us free from sins power and dominion over us it’s the only way out of sin to do repent and believe the gospel

your looking at it by your own works and will never lead to freedom from Thy at law of sin in us it’s always going to be contending good v evil but it doesn’t have to be like That there’s freedom in Christ from that law of sin

“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the place to start is to understand about being merciful when someone sins against you

“Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:36-38‬ ‭

I’ve always found people focused on sin to be missing the point of the gospel focus l. What Jesus says like above there mercy is the way out of sin


I don’t think your understanding that belief is what saves us because that’s where our actions come from we commit sin because we believe wrong in our heart

but you know your free to believe as you will I believe the gospel and so I have to stick with what Jesus Christ taught

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s about having faith in him and what he said will save us. I promise it won’t turn your eyes to who may have sinned but will turn them to the Lord and his righteousness


when it comes to sin it’s 100 percent about repentance and remission of sins through Christ

“And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And ye are witnesses of these things.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭24:46-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That’s The gospel we can’t overcome sin by our efforts and works it has to be based on faith created by believing the gospel and it has to remain in faith believing the gospel the fruits will come from faith

but again that’s just my belief and what I see in scripture we’re of course supposed to have the attitude not to sin , but we still do and when we do we’re taught our mercy and forgiveness d have his promise it’s sort of simple for me

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

There’s nothing to be added or taken from that it’s just what it is

I advise to believe those words--will not enter Gods kingdom. Jesus says the same at Matthew 7:22-23-- a worker of iniquity=a practicer of sin. Heb 10:26--there is no sacrafice for those who practice sin. These are bible truth.
Yes believe the words of the bible all of them. Yes repentence= the stopping of the doing of sin-Acts 3:19-- see the words-turn around.
And at Matt 7:22-23--the only ones doing powerful works and the such believe they are christian to, but Jesus is telling them they are not his because they practice a sin. Do you believe Jesus? those 2 lists in Gods written word are unacceptable sins, that is why they are listed.

 

[allsaved]

"2 Cor 4:4 = God, not Satan"

The case you make is consistent but not necessarily true.


For no one is cast off by the Lord forever. Though he brings grief, he will show compassion, so great is his unfailing love. For he does not willingly bring affliction or grief to anyone. (Lam. 3:31–33 NIV)

 

[allsaved]

The apostle Paul talks about the destruction that will take place in his letter to the Corinthians.
If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved— even though only as one escaping through the flames. (1 Cor. 3:12–15 NIV)

It seems clear that Paul believed that those souls who fail to build on the foundation that is Jesus Christ will be condemned (judged) and punished by fire but will be saved. Paul does not say here that anyone who fails to build on the foundation that is Jesus will be damned to hell eternally. He says they will be judged and punished by fire but that they will be saved!

If this is so, then the Lord knows how to res- cue the godly from trials and to hold the unrighteous for punishment on the Day of Judgment. This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the flesh and despise authority. (2 Pet. 2:9–10 NIV)

 

[arthurfleminger]

I advise to believe those words--will not enter Gods kingdom. Jesus says the same at Matthew 7:22-23-- a worker of iniquity=a practicer of sin. Heb 10:26--there is no sacrafice for those who practice sin. These are bible truth.
Yes believe the words of the bible all of them. Yes repentence= the stopping of the doing of sin-Acts 3:19-- see the words-turn around.
And at Matt 7:22-23--the only ones doing powerful works and the such believe they are christian to, but Jesus is telling them they are not his because they practice a sin. Do you believe Jesus? those 2 lists in Gods written word are unacceptable sins, that is why they are listed.

You are absolutely correct when you state, "Yes believe the words of the bible all of them. " All of the Bible, both the Old and New Testament, is God's Word of truth to us. There are so many posters on this thread who aren't concerned with the truth of the Bible at all. Instead they are only concerned with defending THEIR OWN viewpoints by bandying about quotes from thee Bible, taking these quotes out of context and making them seem to fit their own personal beliefs.. It is an egregious error to cherry pick Holy Scripture to fit your viewpoint. So many have appointed themselves as the authority on God's Word, they've designated themselves as little popes.

My point is that many posters are not seeking the truth of Scripture, only to validate their personal view. So, when you see posters validating their own viewpoints, by cherry picking Scripture and pulling it out of context, know that they are trying to convince you that they, and not Scripture, are truth.

 

[allsaved]

First Timothy 4:10 said the same thing. God is the Savior of all people, especially those who believe. In Matthew 7:13, Jesus tells us there are two gates—one leads to the destruction of sin and death, not damnation.
The apostle Peter also taught salvation for sinners that were already dead.
For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to human standards
in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit. (1 Pet. 4:6 NIV)
Jesus tells us that all shall be taught. We know that some die without having been taught or even hearing the gospel.
Therefore, it follows that, according to Jesus, they will be taught (learn) following their death.
“It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.” (John 6:45 NIV)

 

[keiw]

The god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers=satan, There is no capitol G God in that statement. then it goes on to say God with a capitol G = the true God.

 

[keiw]

You are absolutely correct when you state, "Yes believe the words of the bible all of them. " All of the Bible, both the Old and New Testament, is God's Word of truth to us. There are so many posters on this thread who aren't concerned with the truth of the Bible at all. Instead they are only concerned with defending THEIR OWN viewpoints by bandying about quotes from thee Bible, taking these quotes out of context and making them seem to fit their own personal beliefs.. It is an egregious error to cherry pick Holy Scripture to fit your viewpoint. So many have appointed themselves as the authority on God's Word, they've designated themselves as little popes.

My point is that many posters are not seeking the truth of Scripture, only to validate their personal view. So, when you see posters validating their own viewpoints, by cherry picking Scripture and pulling it out of context, know that they are trying to convince you that they, and not Scripture, are truth.

Yes all who listen to and obey Jesus do this--Man does not live by bread alone, but by EVERY utterance from God.= OT-NT--Afterall it is clear at John 14:15-24--obeying Jesus is proof of ones love for him. Lip service and singing songs = about 2%-98% is learning what he taught, and applying every single teaching is obeying him. There is no pick and choose.

 

[keiw]

First Timothy 4:10 said the same thing. God is the Savior of all people, especially those who believe. In Matthew 7:13, Jesus tells us there are two gates—one leads to the destruction of sin and death, not damnation.
The apostle Peter also taught salvation for sinners that were already dead.
For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to human standards
in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit. (1 Pet. 4:6 NIV)
Jesus tells us that all shall be taught. We know that some die without having been taught or even hearing the gospel.
Therefore, it follows that, according to Jesus, they will be taught (learn) following their death.
“It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.” (John 6:45 NIV)

The ones who will hear those words from Jesus at judgement( matt 7:22-23) are believers. Obviously it takes much more than believing, more than doing powerful works in Jesus name-It takes repenting and turning around( Acts 3:19) It takes disowning ones self to follow Jesus-Mark 8:34
Yes i believe since death is the wage of sin at death those have paid those wages in full and will get the opportunity to learn and apply once ressurected.. But not all will. Rev shows that when satan is loosed for a little while some follow him to destruction. It says-Gog of Magog( those on satans side) will number as the sands of the sea. Rev 20:8--they will come against Gods people mislead by satan.

 

[keiw]

It is not God causing their grief, it is themselves who are to blame. The same for Israel religion. Jesus told them off at Matthew 23-in verse 38 clearly shows they have been cut off of being Gods chosen. But God is so loving and merciful, even though they sent Jesus to his death out of hatred for Jesus God left the door open to them in verse 39, They must bless the one God sent to them= Jesus. They have outright refused for over 1950 years. They are causing their own grief.

 

[allsaved]

Cherry-picking is not an appropriate term to be used in these forums. If anyone is not able to listen to the beliefs of others and converse with an open mind and without insults and accusations... It seems like in this forum some believe that Jesus gives up on a soul at death. Even those who die in their sins are not abandoned by God. Death nor any other date can limit God's ability to accomplish his purpose. In the fullness of time God will bring all things to unity with Himself. God will be all-in-all. He knows how to hold the unrighteous for punishment. They will be taught, they will suffer loss, they will pass through fire, but they will be saved.

For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Rom. 8:38–39 NIV)

By the way, who and how will be saved is not a salvation issue. It is not necessary that anyone be right. I believe what gives me peace that passes understanding. Righteousness is in Christ. If we believe that we must be right we take on accountability and credit for our own salvation. Surely no one wants that.

 

[EddieRamos]

The god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers=satan, There is no capitol G God in that statement. then it goes on to say God with a capitol G = the true God.

If you'd like more information on this verse, please read post #191 first and then #262. I cover 2 Corinthians 4:4 in detail as to why it is most certainly not Satan who is in view as the God of this world, it is God. If anyone uses the Bible as their only source of truth, then, Lord willing, it will become clear.

 

[keiw]

Cherry-picking is not an appropriate term to be used in these forums. If anyone is not able to listen to the beliefs of others and converse with an open mind and without insults and accusations... It seems like in this forum some believe that Jesus gives up on a soul at death. Even those who die in their sins are not abandoned by God. Death nor any other date can limit God's ability to accomplish his purpose. In the fullness of time God will bring all things to unity with Himself. God will be all-in-all. He knows how to hold the unrighteous for punishment. They will be taught, they will suffer loss, they will pass through fire, but they will be saved.

For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Rom. 8:38–39 NIV)

By the way, who and how will be saved is not a salvation issue. It is not necessary that anyone be right. I believe what gives me peace that passes understanding. Righteousness is in Christ. If we believe that we must be right we take on accountability and credit for our own salvation. Surely no one wants that.

Rev 20: 11-15 disagrees with you. the ones who names are not written in the book of ife will be thrown into the lake of fire along with satan and his angels. As did Jesus who taught-- Enter through the narrow gate, for broad and spacious the path that leads to destruction, many are the ones who entered this way. For narrow is the gate and cramped the road that leads off into life, FEW are the ones finding it.

 

[keiw]

If you'd like more information on this verse, please read post #191 first and then #262. I cover 2 Corinthians 4:4 in detail as to why it is most certainly not Satan who is in view as the God of this world, it is God. If anyone uses the Bible as their only source of truth, then, Lord willing, it will become clear.

The small g god proves it is satan. I do not need to read anything else, because a capitol G GOD is mentioned at the end of that verse . The true God=a capitol G GOD. And Jesus himself called satan-the ruler of this world. John 12:31

 

[EddieRamos]

"2 Cor 4:4 = God, not Satan"

The case you make is consistent but not necessarily true.

And ultimately the distinction in this case is unimportant.

I guess what I’ve been trying to ask all along is, what then makes it untrue? What context? What passage? What doctrine?

Also, being able to make the correct distinction here means we have understood something correctly in God’s Holy word. That has a world of value, as it adds (reinforces) or takes away (contradicts) from doctrines we hold to be true. This is the very reason God tells us that ALL of scripture is profitable for doctrine.

 

[EddieRamos]

1 John 3:23 is actually a commandment to believe in the name of Jesus Christ, as opposed to a commandment to believe in Jesus Christ.

I’m not sure how you differentiate one from the other. Does believing in one versus the other make a difference? Is there even a difference between the name of Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ himself? I’m not asking for what one would deem to be logical answers, I am asking for what the Bible has to say. And since this is the first time someone has pointed this out to me, I didn’t want to just dismiss it as untrue, but rather, I took the time to look up every verse where the word “name” appears and I found reassurance by way of confirmation that your statement is indeed incorrect. So, I just wanted to offer you those verses for your own review.

Let’s start with what 1 John 3:23 states:
1 John 3:23 (KJV)
And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

So, the question we need to ask the Bible is, “believing in Jesus Christ the same as believing in the name of Jesus Christ? Or are they different?

John 1:12 (KJV)
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

John 2:23 (KJV)
23 Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did.

John 20:31 (KJV)
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Acts 2:38 (KJV)
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 3:16 (KJV)
16 And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.

In this next verse, God ties in the name of Jesus Christ with Christ himself.


Acts 4:10 (KJV)
10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.

Acts 4:12 (KJV)
12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Romans 10:13 (KJV)
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

1 John 2:12 (KJV)
12 I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake.

1 John 5:13 (KJV)
13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Once we begin looking up the word “name”, we quickly realize that God supplies no shortage of scriptures that answers our initial question in the affirmative. Thus the commandment in 1 John 3:23 which gives us the commandment to believe on the name of Jesus Christ, is saying the exact same thing as God’s commandment is that we believe in Jesus Christ himself. It is a commandment that requires obedience, like every other commandment in the scriptures. And keeping any of the commandments, is a work which could never produce salvation.

 

[EddieRamos]

The small g god proves it is satan. I do not need to read anything else, because a capitol G GOD is mentioned at the end of that verse . The true God=a capitol G GOD. And Jesus himself called satan-the ruler of this world. John 12:31

The lower and upper case letters were added by the translators (not sure if you were aware). Both words are the exact same in the Greek, which have no upper and lower case letters.

Also, a ruler of this world is not a God of it. If Satan was given the authority to rule over this world, then who do you think gave him that authority?

Luke 4:6 (KJV)
And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.

Whoever gave Satan rulership of this world is obvious someone infinitely greater. The GOD of this same world. We know God still rules this world even though he gave authority to Satan to rule it.

Daniel 4:35 (KJV)
And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

 

[keiw]

The lower and upper case letters were added by the translators (not sure if you were aware). Both words are the exact same in the Greek, which have no upper and lower case letters.

Also, a ruler of this world is not a God of it. If Satan was given the authority to rule over this world, then who do you think gave him that authority?

Luke 4:6 (KJV)
And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.

Whoever gave Satan rulership of this world is obvious someone infinitely greater. The GOD of this same world. We know God still rules this world even though he gave authority to Satan to rule it.

Daniel 4:35 (KJV)
And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

Yes in Greek Theos is the only word for either God or god. Thus a differential was used. Like at John 1:1 and in many verses in the NT-The word-Ho proceeded Theos when speaking of the true God capitol G. Ho did not proceed god small g. No Ho was in the last line at John 1:1, it was in the 2nd line.