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There are four flat earth threads in the conspiracy forum, this is getting out of hand. Like the belief in space aliens. lol
I will say this though, how I stumbled across the concave hollow earth theory, was by googling the flat earth. I started seeing flat earth propaganda in different places where I used to live, and wanted to know what was wrong with people. lol So, the only benefit I see with people promoting a completely brain dead ideology, is that it makes people question. Questioning is good.
With that said, I would like to be part of the movement, that helps put an end to this 4 thread mini-series of stone age thinking.
Flat earth priests, please refute this evidence, if you can. By the way, notice how I brought something to the table that actually refutes the theory, rather than just mocking it. Hint , Hint , Hint.
I will say this though, how I stumbled across the concave hollow earth theory, was by googling the flat earth. I started seeing flat earth propaganda in different places where I used to live, and wanted to know what was wrong with people. lol So, the only benefit I see with people promoting a completely brain dead ideology, is that it makes people question. Questioning is good.
With that said, I would like to be part of the movement, that helps put an end to this 4 thread mini-series of stone age thinking.
Flat earth priests, please refute this evidence, if you can. By the way, notice how I brought something to the table that actually refutes the theory, rather than just mocking it. Hint , Hint , Hint.
I agree that the multiple FE threads is getting kind of crazy. I didn't realize there were so many when I posted my Biblical Cosmology one. Now I'm getting lost as to where I posted stuff.Another user actually posted this same Professor Dave video in... I think the BIG flat earth thread. Here is my answer to him:
1. Challenge 1: Show a scale that works on an AE map. This is an impossible challenge. Firstly, let me point out that in the northern hemisphere, the globe and the AE map do differ, but the differences are not as pronounced as the variance between the HUGE southern hemisphere of the AE map and the southern hemisphere of the globe which is the same size as the northern. Dave cunningly says you can "make a scale, then test it in your car." Sure. Easily, on a local level WITHIN a continent. But you cannot test a scale (realistically) in a vehicle over great distances if you are a poor normal human being, and the GPS system is gatekept by the establishment, so you cannot use any kind of digital technology to verify, prove, or disprove anything here.
2. Challenge 2: Explain the amounts of night and day. This has actually been done. The problem here is that flat earth is not cohesive and different flat earthers each have their areas of exploration and expertise. Also, we are trying to build an entire system of thinking with extremely limited resources and have been doing this less than a decade. So there's that. But look up something called "coffee cup caustics." This stuff is fascinating. In a reflective (say, stainless steel) coffee cup, a single point light source can be caught by the reflective perimeter and "wrapped" around the entire periphery while leaving only a spot of darkness in the middle. The motion of the Sun inwards and outwards between the tropic of capricorn and the tropic of cancer, as well as consideration of a coffee cup caustic effect from a firmament dome, can explain seasons and extended periods of light or darkness perfectly, even around the entire Antarctic periphery all at once while still leaving darkness in the middle. You should look up pictures of "sun dogs" as well if you have not seen this phenomenon before.
3. Challenge 3: Make any prediction whatsoever. Dave is missing something big here. A lot of things work literally exactly the same on a flat earth as on a globe. Compass navigation. Star positions. I mentioned in another post that planetariums and astronomical software essentially use a flat earth presentation system. Ironically, Dave mentions eclipses as proof of heliocentricity. He shows an image of an eclipse shadow path that actually is a big problem for the globe model. How can a gigantic moon cast a shadow on the earth that is only dozens of miles across? Also, eclipses are not predicted using the heliocentric model at all. Their cyclical nature has been recorded for millennia and encapsulated in a system called the Saros cycle. Completely independently of the shape of the earth, it simply predicts the timing of eclipses. NASA has a resident Saros cycle expert who handles their eclipse predictions. A flat earther could use the Saros cycle to predict an eclipse as well... and the shadow path size actually makes sense for a small, local moon. Here's another thought to chew on: the heliocentric model PREDICTS that the sun and moon should never be visible in the sky at the same time during a lunar eclipse. After all, if both are in the sky... what's casting a shadow on the moon? This happens all the time, though. It's called a selenelion. Conveniently, magic refraction bends light so we see what we see, according to the globers.
4. Challenge #4: Pull something into focus over land from over 1000 miles away. Dave doesn't like the videos that debunk curvature by showing we can see too far over water. So he arbitrarily picks a distance - 1000 miles - and arbitrarily sets conditions - over land - and says to get a straight line of view under those circumstances. First off, the distance is incredibly far. I'm not a photographer, I don't know what a camera is capable of, but I know that the Nikon P900 with its 80x digital zoom made curvature debunks possible for ordinary people when it came out. But the idea that one can see infinitely... is a glober misconception, not a flat earther idea. Flat earthers acknowledge that view distance has limitations because the atmosphere has weight, water vapor, dust, etc. limiting range of view. PLUS looking at something 1000 miles away over land is complicated because there are mountains and stuff in the way, whereas over water there are no obstructions. Dave is just being ridiculous with his demands here. Despite that... I've seen some incredible curvature debunks over land as well by flat earthers. Typically they start on a mountain of known height and see if they can view a distant peak of known height, which allows them to apply the curvature formula. I don't know that the 1000 mile range has been achieved or if it ever will be. It's just too big of an ask... and that's why Dave asked it.
5. 6. These challenges relate to ships over the visible horizon (which is not the curve of the Earth) and sunsets. These have been discussed ad nauseum by many flat earthers, which makes me wonder if Dave is only working from the material of the Flat Earth Society... which is actually controlled opposition and which we serious flat earthers avoid. I'll simply link you to the best hub of serious flat earth material - The Flat Earth Podcast - and you can find dozens of videos on these topics from there.
https://www.theflatearthpodcast.com/must-see-videos/
7. Challenge #7: Explain anything about a lunar eclipse. So, the consensus view on lunar eclipses is that the Earth's shadow is being case on the moon. Selenelions are a big problem for the heliocentrists. The size of the moon's shadow during a solar eclipse is a big problem for the heliocentrists. I'm surprised Dave has the guts to bring up eclipses, honestly. Flat Earthers cannot explain them... but neither can the heliocentrists. Oh, and Dave lies with his diagram of how an eclipse works, which makes me wonder if he is an Establishment con man. Modern scientism says that sunlight reaches the earth in parallel rays. This is a requirement for Eratosthenes' work - much touted by the scientific establishment - to even be remotely useful to heliocentrism. Eratosthenes is bunk, by the way. I have a whole video about it on YouTube, called "Eratosthenes Is Bunk." I probably don't explain it as well as other flat earthers, but here it is:
8. Challenge #8: Send a camera up on a balloon to take a photo of the sun and moon. Well, Dave, this has actually been done, and flat earthers show these videos all the time. The flat horizon rises to eye level and the sun's local hot spot over the earth can be clearly seen. There are several videos just like this on the flat earth podcast site I linked above. Counter challenge: Give us JUST ONE legit photo of the globe. The official story is that the Hubble couldn't take pictures of Earth or the moon because "it wasn't designed to do so." The official story is that this new next-gen space telescope, the one launched a few days ago on Christmas Day, won't be able to take pictures of the globe Earth because there are "sensitive electronics on the back that can never face the Sun or they will be damaged, so the telescope will only take pictures of deep space like Hubble." Oh, and then the pictures of "deep space" that we get back are all CG BS. If the globe is real, WE SHOULD HAVE THOUSANDS OF HIGH DEFINITION PHOTOGRAPHS OF THE ENTIRE THING. THOUSANDS. I have HD scans of 9-foot maps that are hundreds of GB in size which can be zoomed in so that miniscule handwriting can be scrutinized, but NASA with tens of millions of $$$ in funding every day can't give us a comparable quality photo of the Earth?!
9. Challenge #9: Please see free book "16 Emergency Landings Proving Flat Earth" by international Brazilian pilot.
10. Challenge #10: Do anything scientific, ever. Basically Dave just gets snarky here, ignoring the hundreds if not thousands of curvature debunk videos where people went to mountaintops or shores to record direct lines of sight to spots too far to be seen on a globe. Flat earthers have done far more science than Dave will ever do.
5. 6. These challenges relate to ships over the visible horizon (which is not the curve of the Earth) and sunsets. These have been discussed ad nauseum by many flat earthers, which makes me wonder if Dave is only working from the material of the Flat Earth Society... which is actually controlled opposition and which we serious flat earthers avoid. I'll simply link you to the best hub of serious flat earth material - The Flat Earth Podcast - and you can find dozens of videos on these topics from there.
https://www.theflatearthpodcast.com/must-see-videos/
7. Challenge #7: Explain anything about a lunar eclipse. So, the consensus view on lunar eclipses is that the Earth's shadow is being case on the moon. Selenelions are a big problem for the heliocentrists. The size of the moon's shadow during a solar eclipse is a big problem for the heliocentrists. I'm surprised Dave has the guts to bring up eclipses, honestly. Flat Earthers cannot explain them... but neither can the heliocentrists. Oh, and Dave lies with his diagram of how an eclipse works, which makes me wonder if he is an Establishment con man. Modern scientism says that sunlight reaches the earth in parallel rays. This is a requirement for Eratosthenes' work - much touted by the scientific establishment - to even be remotely useful to heliocentrism. Eratosthenes is bunk, by the way. I have a whole video about it on YouTube, called "Eratosthenes Is Bunk." I probably don't explain it as well as other flat earthers, but here it is:
8. Challenge #8: Send a camera up on a balloon to take a photo of the sun and moon. Well, Dave, this has actually been done, and flat earthers show these videos all the time. The flat horizon rises to eye level and the sun's local hot spot over the earth can be clearly seen. There are several videos just like this on the flat earth podcast site I linked above. Counter challenge: Give us JUST ONE legit photo of the globe. The official story is that the Hubble couldn't take pictures of Earth or the moon because "it wasn't designed to do so." The official story is that this new next-gen space telescope, the one launched a few days ago on Christmas Day, won't be able to take pictures of the globe Earth because there are "sensitive electronics on the back that can never face the Sun or they will be damaged, so the telescope will only take pictures of deep space like Hubble." Oh, and then the pictures of "deep space" that we get back are all CG BS. If the globe is real, WE SHOULD HAVE THOUSANDS OF HIGH DEFINITION PHOTOGRAPHS OF THE ENTIRE THING. THOUSANDS. I have HD scans of 9-foot maps that are hundreds of GB in size which can be zoomed in so that miniscule handwriting can be scrutinized, but NASA with tens of millions of $$$ in funding every day can't give us a comparable quality photo of the Earth?!
9. Challenge #9: Please see free book "16 Emergency Landings Proving Flat Earth" by international Brazilian pilot.
10. Challenge #10: Do anything scientific, ever. Basically Dave just gets snarky here, ignoring the hundreds if not thousands of curvature debunk videos where people went to mountaintops or shores to record direct lines of sight to spots too far to be seen on a globe. Flat earthers have done far more science than Dave will ever do.
So let me say thank you for posting this. I do like a SUBSTANTIVE conversation. I agree that the multiple FE threads is getting kind of crazy. I didn't realize there were so many when I posted my Biblical Cosmology one. Now I'm getting lost as to where I posted stuff.
Another user actually posted this same Professor Dave video in... I think the BIG flat earth thread. Here is my answer to him:
1. Challenge 1: Show a scale that works on an AE map. This is an impossible challenge. Firstly, let me point out that in the northern hemisphere, the globe and the AE map do differ, but the differences are not as pronounced as the variance between the HUGE southern hemisphere of the AE map and the southern hemisphere of the globe which is the same size as the northern. Dave cunningly says you can "make a scale, then test it in your car." Sure. Easily, on a local level WITHIN a continent. But you cannot test a scale (realistically) in a vehicle over great distances if you are a poor normal human being, and the GPS system is gatekept by the establishment, so you cannot use any kind of digital technology to verify, prove, or disprove anything here.
2. Challenge 2: Explain the amounts of night and day. This has actually been done. The problem here is that flat earth is not cohesive and different flat earthers each have their areas of exploration and expertise. Also, we are trying to build an entire system of thinking with extremely limited resources and have been doing this less than a decade. So there's that. But look up something called "coffee cup caustics." This stuff is fascinating. In a reflective (say, stainless steel) coffee cup, a single point light source can be caught by the reflective perimeter and "wrapped" around the entire periphery while leaving only a spot of darkness in the middle. The motion of the Sun inwards and outwards between the tropic of capricorn and the tropic of cancer, as well as consideration of a coffee cup caustic effect from a firmament dome, can explain seasons and extended periods of light or darkness perfectly, even around the entire Antarctic periphery all at once while still leaving darkness in the middle. You should look up pictures of "sun dogs" as well if you have not seen this phenomenon before.
3. Challenge 3: Make any prediction whatsoever. Dave is missing something big here. A lot of things work literally exactly the same on a flat earth as on a globe. Compass navigation. Star positions. I mentioned in another post that planetariums and astronomical software essentially use a flat earth presentation system. Ironically, Dave mentions eclipses as proof of heliocentricity. He shows an image of an eclipse shadow path that actually is a big problem for the globe model. How can a gigantic moon cast a shadow on the earth that is only dozens of miles across? Also, eclipses are not predicted using the heliocentric model at all. Their cyclical nature has been recorded for millennia and encapsulated in a system called the Saros cycle. Completely independently of the shape of the earth, it simply predicts the timing of eclipses. NASA has a resident Saros cycle expert who handles their eclipse predictions. A flat earther could use the Saros cycle to predict an eclipse as well... and the shadow path size actually makes sense for a small, local moon. Here's another thought to chew on: the heliocentric model PREDICTS that the sun and moon should never be visible in the sky at the same time during a lunar eclipse. After all, if both are in the sky... what's casting a shadow on the moon? This happens all the time, though. It's called a selenelion. Conveniently, magic refraction bends light so we see what we see, according to the globers.
I agree that the multiple FE threads is getting kind of crazy. I didn't realize there were so many when I posted my Biblical Cosmology one. Now I'm getting lost as to where I posted stuff.Another user actually posted this same Professor Dave video in... I think the BIG flat earth thread. Here is my answer to him:
1. Challenge 1: Show a scale that works on an AE map. This is an impossible challenge. Firstly, let me point out that in the northern hemisphere, the globe and the AE map do differ, but the differences are not as pronounced as the variance between the HUGE southern hemisphere of the AE map and the southern hemisphere of the globe which is the same size as the northern. Dave cunningly says you can "make a scale, then test it in your car." Sure. Easily, on a local level WITHIN a continent. But you cannot test a scale (realistically) in a vehicle over great distances if you are a poor normal human being, and the GPS system is gatekept by the establishment, so you cannot use any kind of digital technology to verify, prove, or disprove anything here.
2. Challenge 2: Explain the amounts of night and day. This has actually been done. The problem here is that flat earth is not cohesive and different flat earthers each have their areas of exploration and expertise. Also, we are trying to build an entire system of thinking with extremely limited resources and have been doing this less than a decade. So there's that. But look up something called "coffee cup caustics." This stuff is fascinating. In a reflective (say, stainless steel) coffee cup, a single point light source can be caught by the reflective perimeter and "wrapped" around the entire periphery while leaving only a spot of darkness in the middle. The motion of the Sun inwards and outwards between the tropic of capricorn and the tropic of cancer, as well as consideration of a coffee cup caustic effect from a firmament dome, can explain seasons and extended periods of light or darkness perfectly, even around the entire Antarctic periphery all at once while still leaving darkness in the middle. You should look up pictures of "sun dogs" as well if you have not seen this phenomenon before.
3. Challenge 3: Make any prediction whatsoever. Dave is missing something big here. A lot of things work literally exactly the same on a flat earth as on a globe. Compass navigation. Star positions. I mentioned in another post that planetariums and astronomical software essentially use a flat earth presentation system. Ironically, Dave mentions eclipses as proof of heliocentricity. He shows an image of an eclipse shadow path that actually is a big problem for the globe model. How can a gigantic moon cast a shadow on the earth that is only dozens of miles across? Also, eclipses are not predicted using the heliocentric model at all. Their cyclical nature has been recorded for millennia and encapsulated in a system called the Saros cycle. Completely independently of the shape of the earth, it simply predicts the timing of eclipses. NASA has a resident Saros cycle expert who handles their eclipse predictions. A flat earther could use the Saros cycle to predict an eclipse as well... and the shadow path size actually makes sense for a small, local moon. Here's another thought to chew on: the heliocentric model PREDICTS that the sun and moon should never be visible in the sky at the same time during a lunar eclipse. After all, if both are in the sky... what's casting a shadow on the moon? This happens all the time, though. It's called a selenelion. Conveniently, magic refraction bends light so we see what we see, according to the globers.
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Works for me, I'll try to come up with something specific for you. That's a better challenge anyways than Professor Dave dropping a whole truckload of unreasonable requests on my head...
I don't have an answer off the top of my head, but I've got several references I can think of that dealt with the flight times issue. I'll gt back to you.
I don't have an answer off the top of my head, but I've got several references I can think of that dealt with the flight times issue. I'll gt back to you.
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Works for me, I'll try to come up with something specific for you. That's a better challenge anyways than Professor Dave dropping a whole truckload of unreasonable requests on my head...
I don't have an answer off the top of my head, but I've got several references I can think of that dealt with the flight times issue. I'll gt back to you.
I don't have an answer off the top of my head, but I've got several references I can think of that dealt with the flight times issue. I'll gt back to you.
Matthew 21:23-27 NLT - "When Jesus returned to the Temple and began teaching, the leading priests and elders came up to him. They demanded, "By what authority are you doing all these things? Who gave you the right?" "I'll tell you by what authority I do these things if you answer one question," Jesus replied. "Did John's authority to baptize come from heaven, or was it merely human?" They talked it over among themselves. "If we say it was from heaven, he will ask us why we didn't believe John. But if we say it was merely human, we'll be mobbed because the people believe John was a prophet." So they finally replied, "We don't know." And Jesus responded, "Then I won't tell you by what authority I do these things."
Like Jesus, I don't tolerate demanding attitudes. Ever. I don't play word games.
All right, so here we go. First off, Professor Dave is as dishonest as they come.
Yes, 250 mph jet streams exist, despite what he says. Source? Here: https://web.archive.org/web/2008072...onomy/solarsystem/jupiter_sidebar_000209.html
Planes can also fly pretty fast, up to 800mph for a passenger plane utilizing a jet stream. Source? Here: https://aviation.stackexchange.com/...ommercial-passenger-aircraft-top-speed-record
Notice how Professor Dave draws that loooong arc from South America to Australia and says it's ridiculous to go that route. He also asserts that planes ARE going that route, and therefore they must be flying over a globe because that route only makes sense on a globe. BUT FLAT EARTHERS DENY THAT PLANES ARE FLYING THAT ROUTE IN THE FIRST PLACE. On a flat earth, straight line vectors are the fastest routes between points, unless there are jet streams that can be utilized to facilitate flight paths.
This great video discusses a path that's similar to the one that Professor Dave cleverly obfuscates in his video:
Now, I personally fact checked that first flight path, Buenas Aires, Argentina to Cape Town, Africa. I did so by looking up tickets for that route. Here's what we end up with.
Buenas Aires, BR -> Cape Town, SA
34 hours 50 minutes
2 stopovers:
Sao Paulo 1 h 15
Addis Ababa 12 h 30
Subtract out the layover times and you get about 21 hours and change for this flight, too long.
BUT NOTICE THE SECOND LAYOVER. Addis Ababa.... in ETHIOPIA. Now get a globe and tell me how that makes sense.
Yes, 250 mph jet streams exist, despite what he says. Source? Here: https://web.archive.org/web/2008072...onomy/solarsystem/jupiter_sidebar_000209.html
Planes can also fly pretty fast, up to 800mph for a passenger plane utilizing a jet stream. Source? Here: https://aviation.stackexchange.com/...ommercial-passenger-aircraft-top-speed-record
Notice how Professor Dave draws that loooong arc from South America to Australia and says it's ridiculous to go that route. He also asserts that planes ARE going that route, and therefore they must be flying over a globe because that route only makes sense on a globe. BUT FLAT EARTHERS DENY THAT PLANES ARE FLYING THAT ROUTE IN THE FIRST PLACE. On a flat earth, straight line vectors are the fastest routes between points, unless there are jet streams that can be utilized to facilitate flight paths.
This great video discusses a path that's similar to the one that Professor Dave cleverly obfuscates in his video:
Now, I personally fact checked that first flight path, Buenas Aires, Argentina to Cape Town, Africa. I did so by looking up tickets for that route. Here's what we end up with.
Buenas Aires, BR -> Cape Town, SA
34 hours 50 minutes
2 stopovers:
Sao Paulo 1 h 15
Addis Ababa 12 h 30
Subtract out the layover times and you get about 21 hours and change for this flight, too long.
BUT NOTICE THE SECOND LAYOVER. Addis Ababa.... in ETHIOPIA. Now get a globe and tell me how that makes sense.
wow, LOL!!
i look at the sky a lot. i live a fair piece from cities.
a balloon in the sky looks almost stationary. its motion is relatively very slow, and unpredictable. it's subject to wind
a satellite zips across the sky faster than a jet plane. its motion is a highly predictable & controlled, in an orbital path.
i've seen both.
try again -- no, just stop trying.
i look at the sky a lot. i live a fair piece from cities.
a balloon in the sky looks almost stationary. its motion is relatively very slow, and unpredictable. it's subject to wind
a satellite zips across the sky faster than a jet plane. its motion is a highly predictable & controlled, in an orbital path.
i've seen both.
try again -- no, just stop trying.
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you mean you only accept that kind of condescending talk from FE videos?
FE's entire schtick is that you guys know some secret-and-simultaneously-obvious gnostic truth but 90% of the world's population is too stupid not to be hoodwinked, and that the bulk of the entire global economy and all governments at every level ((which are simultaneously ridiculously inept and idiotic but also extraordinarily shrewd and capable conspirators?)) are devoted to deceiving us about something we can verify by simply watching the sun rise.
does the sun rise today?
does it start as a dot larger than a planet, 30 degrees above the horizon that grows brighter and bigger as light inexplicably fills the world?
no?
what? it's a full-size disc rising little by little above the horizon which obscures it?
huh.
well then, the earth is not flat.
FE's entire schtick is that you guys know some secret-and-simultaneously-obvious gnostic truth but 90% of the world's population is too stupid not to be hoodwinked, and that the bulk of the entire global economy and all governments at every level ((which are simultaneously ridiculously inept and idiotic but also extraordinarily shrewd and capable conspirators?)) are devoted to deceiving us about something we can verify by simply watching the sun rise.
does the sun rise today?
does it start as a dot larger than a planet, 30 degrees above the horizon that grows brighter and bigger as light inexplicably fills the world?
no?
what? it's a full-size disc rising little by little above the horizon which obscures it?
huh.
well then, the earth is not flat.
because airlines are businesses that do not always take direct paths.
they take paths that ferry the most paying customers to their destinations in the most efficient way, given the destinations of all the people onboard.
you can also get to Cape Town from Buenos Aires via Amsterdam or Madrid.
or via Luanda, Angola -- which is a lot closer to Addis Ababa -- only a 20hr 45 min flight total -- but there ain't a lot of people trying to do that so the majority of available flights are stopping over in Europe.
basically what you want to do is search for a charter plane, not a commercial airline.
they take paths that ferry the most paying customers to their destinations in the most efficient way, given the destinations of all the people onboard.
you can also get to Cape Town from Buenos Aires via Amsterdam or Madrid.
or via Luanda, Angola -- which is a lot closer to Addis Ababa -- only a 20hr 45 min flight total -- but there ain't a lot of people trying to do that so the majority of available flights are stopping over in Europe.
basically what you want to do is search for a charter plane, not a commercial airline.
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