Reading The First Five Chapters Of Revelations Without Stopping

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Jul 24, 2021
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As with almost everything you say; The Scriptures are proving you a liar:

1Co 6:3 Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more matters of this life?

Rom 16:20 The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet. The grace of our Lord Jesus be with you.​
For 1Co 6:3, you interpret that your seat is same as Jesus? Your arrogance is showing. What do you do with evil spirits? Command them to wait because of your busy judge schedule? No, in the name of Christ you cast them out.

A few verse up from Rom 16:20 , Rom 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
Now whose doctrine should we avoid? The antiScriptural or the knowledge from the Scriptures.
 
Jul 24, 2021
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....Truncated...
The world as it relates to the Clay/Potter's/Harlot's land divisions
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_...atholic_provinces_and_top-level_groupings.png
I am ignoring what you have said. Understand the Scripture and rebuke me wisely or go back to milk.

Consider Revelation 6:9-11
When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne. They cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been.

Revelation 20:4-5
Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection.

So sardis folk came in the form of the lamps before the opening of the Seals. So those martyrs whose blood asks God to judge were liars. God is a not telling the whole truth as a few were let through to accommodate the lamps? Or your arrogance is showing so you may judge as the Most High.

The high priests and judges are from the martyrs and are the FIRST resurrection. There is no pre-first resurrection. Not from the mind of someone who wishes to avoid the tribulation with his vast doctrine of "7 years". Teaching such a doctrine, hides the Knowledge of God and insults the Testimony of Christ

It is ironic Rev 22:18 is quoted. Where is the "7 years" in the Bible and does it imply adding to the Scriptures?

I advise you strongly to repent. I will leave the last words to you.
 
Jul 24, 2021
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[1] Here you are mixing part of what comprehends the fulfillment of the 70th week with components which will be accomplished later: Babylon will certainly fall at the end of the 70th week (end of the last 7-year period, as was shown to John); but the establishment of the New Jerusalem will only be fulfilled AFTER the 1000-year kingdom on earth (and the same goes regarding the tree of life.)

[2 and 3] Daniel’s vision regarding the End Times included Seventy weeks of years (70 x 7 = 490 years.) These weeks of years started at 445 B.C. (NOT in 439 B.C.,) when Artaxerxes, king of Persia, issued the decree allowing Nehemiah and the Jews’ return to rebuild Jerusalem.


And with this, following up to the close of the 69th week, at which time Savior was impaled ("cut off"), leaving the remaining week of years to be fulfilled in the future.

Firstly, “Seven weeks” (7x7) accounts for the 49 years to rebuild Jerusalem “along with the plaza and moat”: At times during the forty-nine-years, they were receiving threats from the nations around them.

Neh 4:7-8 - When Sanballat, Tobiah, the Arabs, the Ammonites and the Ashdodites heard that
the repair of the walls of Jerusalem went on, and that the breaches began to be closed,
they were very angry. 8 All of them plotted together to come to fight against
Jerusalem and to cause harm in it.

Then 62 more weeks of years: 434 years, when Savior was Impaled (33AD); leaving the remaining week (seven years) to be fulfilled in the Great Tribulations.​

[3] The end of the 7 + 62 weeks of years ( = 69 WEEKS = 483 YEARS) is the fulfillment of Messiah being cut off in ca. 38 A.D. (considering the aprox. 5 year miscalculation on the part of the Gregorian calendar)

Astronomer Discovers Mistake in Gregorian Calendar - Sada El balad (see.news)

What year was Jesus Christ born? (compellingtruth.org)

Pope Benedict Disputes Jesus’ Date of Birth | TIME.com

Therefore, sixty-nine weeks of years were elapsed when Israel’s Prophecy Time Clock stopped upon Savior being executed, leaving 1 Week of Years (7 Years) pending, and to be fulfilled in the 70th Week; and will resume once the Church is snatched up.

So, the remaining 7-year period is arithmetically literal, as prophesied in Daniel, NOT​
The RCC has a bad history everywhere. It is no excuse to radicalise to oppose her. Keep within the Scriptures.

The problem is not the Scriptures, it is your interpretation and your willingness to teach it. Are you wise in your conceit? Look at the refutations of Friend's postings. Twisting the scriptures to conform an interpretation has led your down a rabbithole. Reason through your sin, don't feel the righteousness of self.

From your calculation of 7 years, it appears to be missing some premises. By eye, some dates don't match. Are you that uncomfortable with the mysteries that you must make things up? Rebuke me, if any of what I said is not from the Scriptures, teach me if any history is out of synch. But don't ask me to feel your holiness?
 
Dec 8, 2021
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I will state it here to all who hears and reads. Everybody is in the final days. Christendom will be judged. Babylon will fall whether you think you are in it or not.

Your teaching of the 7 years are your doctrines, not mine. It is a false doctrine that leads people astray. Your words - 7 years. Your doctrine. Not a sword of truth but a plastic spoon.

Weave, point and report as much as you will. It is no concern for me.
I will state it here to all who hears and reads. Everybody is in the final days. Christendom will be judged. Babylon will fall whether you think you are in it or not.

Your teaching of the 7 years are your doctrines, not mine. It is a false doctrine that leads people astray. Your words - 7 years. Your doctrine. Not a sword of truth but a plastic spoon.

Weave, point and report as much as you will. It is no concern for me.
The one that's been astray beforehand is yourself, Lactose. We have made clear for all to see on this site Where the 7 Years teaching comes from; and I did it as a rebuttal to your own objections. Here below is the link where the subject was addressed:


Many of us believe the 7 Years doctrine has a lot to do with one of our Savior's warning signs regarding the end times:

[Mat 24:15, 21 NASB95]
15 "Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION
which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet,
standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), ...

21 "For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred
since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will.​

Or tell us: what is the timing and the circumstances in which this prophecy of our Lord will be fulfilled?​

But in looking at the way you have been treating these issues, it is plain for some to foresee you will either keep silent about it or keep on having no restraint in contradicting and attacking the truths as deliverd by our Lord, or Daniel or John (just as Jannes and Jambres did Moses):

[2Ti 3:8-9 NASB95]
8 Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these [men] also oppose the truth,
men of depraved mind, rejected in regard to the faith.
9 But they will not make further progress; for their folly will be obvious to all,
just as Jannes's and Jambres's folly was also.​
 
Dec 8, 2021
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The RCC has a bad history everywhere. It is no excuse to radicalise to oppose her. Keep within the Scriptures.

The problem is not the Scriptures, it is your interpretation and your willingness to teach it. Are you wise in your conceit? Look at the refutations of Friend's postings. Twisting the scriptures to conform an interpretation has led your down a rabbithole. Reason through your sin, don't feel the righteousness of self.

From your calculation of 7 years, it appears to be missing some premises. By eye, some dates don't match. Are you that uncomfortable with the mysteries that you must make things up? Rebuke me, if any of what I said is not from the Scriptures, teach me if any history is out of synch. But don't ask me to feel your holiness?

The one that's been astray beforehand is yourself, Lactose. We have made clear for all to see on this site Where the 7 Years teaching comes from; and I did it as a rebuttal to your own objections. Here below is the link where the subject was addressed:

https://christianchat.com/threads/r...elations-without-stopping.203060/post-4743588

Many of us believe the 7 Years doctrine has a lot to do with one of our Savior's warning signs regarding the end times:

[Mat 24:15, 21 NASB95]
15 "Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION
which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet,
standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), ...

21 "For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred
since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will.​

Or tell us: what is the timing and the circumstances in which this prophecy of our Lord will be fulfilled?

But in looking at the way you have been treating these issues, it is plain for some to foresee you will either keep silent about it or keep on having no restraint in contradicting and attacking the truths as deliverd by our Lord, or Daniel or John (just as Jannes and Jambres did Moses):

[2Ti 3:8-9 NASB95]
8 Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these [men] also oppose the truth,
men of depraved mind, rejected in regard to the faith.
9 But they will not make further progress; for their folly will be obvious to all,
just as Jannes's and Jambres's folly was also.

For you to say: "The RCC has a bad history everywhere. It is no excuse to radicalise to oppose her. Keep within the Scriptures," is exactly the opposite of what the Scriptures instruct us to do, which is: Reveal Her True Identity; and which we have been showing and will keep on doing; because the​
 
Dec 8, 2021
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(continued)

You saying: "The RCC has a bad history everywhere. It is no excuse to radicalise to oppose her. Keep within the Scriptures," is exactly the opposite of what the Scriptures instruct us to do, which is: Reveal Her True Identity; and which we have been showing and will keep on doing. [/QUOTE]

Certainly plenty of God's Word is needed to break the power of the Roman Catholic "Church"/Religion Spells on humanity. Had God not deemed it absolutely critical for us to see Her exposed for who She reallly is, He hadn't told John or any of the prophets about it. But the bible has made it of capital importance for us to know Her behavior from her origins and development all the way up to Her future and final destination.

Me having been born and raised in Mexico (a worldwide Catholic Stronghold), and therefore having drunk of her spells all my life, allows me to know of Her pride and her insatiable thirst for power at any cost. Her totalitarian religion put our Latin American countries as tails instead of at the head in the international scene; a wake of desolations left in our countries by Her along Her Spanish and Portuguese beasts (Her "secular arm".)

That is why, in the end, there's rejoice in heaven at seeing Her final Fall:

[Rev 19:1-2, 4 NASB20]
1 After these things I heard [something] like a loud voice of a great multitude in heaven,
saying, "Hallelujah! Salvation, glory, and power belong to our God,
2 BECAUSE HIS JUDGMENTS ARE TRUE AND RIGHTEOUS; for He has judged
the great prostitute
who was corrupting the earth with her sexual immorality,
and HE HAS AVENGED THE BLOOD OF HIS BOND-SERVANTS ON HER." ...
4 And the twenty-four elders and the four living creatures fell down
and worshiped God who sits on the throne, saying, "Amen. Hallelujah!"

And so, we do also await for the great day of Her fall; because she deserves it:

[Isa 47:10 NASB95] 10 "You felt secure in your wickedness and said, 'No one sees me,'
Your wisdom and your knowledge, they have deluded you;
For you have said in your heart, 'I am, and there is no one besides me.'

[Rev 18:7 NASB20] 7 "To the extent that she glorified herself and lived luxuriously,
to the same extent give her torment and mourning; for she says in her heart,
'I sit [as] a queen and I am not a widow, and will never see mourning.'
 
Dec 8, 2021
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I don't mean to be rude, but what is vastly more important than anything in Revelation is understanding the Gospel . . . [first]. We can read the entire Bible but if we do not understand the Purpose of Christ, the Work of Christ, and the Effect of Christ . . . none of it matters in the least. We can quote scripture all day long, but if we do not understand those three elements of Christ, there is no hope.

My recommendation, based upon the THREE elements of Christ noted above, is to read the SEVEN verses below . . . and memorize them as if they were the new John 3:16.

Colossians 2:9-15 NLT - "For in Christ lives all the fullness of God in a human body. So you also are complete through your union with Christ, who is the head over every ruler and authority. When you came to Christ, you were "circumcised," but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision--the cutting away of your sinful nature. For you were buried with Christ when you were baptized. And with him you were raised to new life because you trusted the mighty power of God, who raised Christ from the dead. You were dead because of your sins and because your sinful nature was not yet cut away. Then God made you alive with Christ, for he forgave all our sins. He canceled the record of the charges against us and took it away by nailing it to the cross. In this way, he disarmed the spiritual rulers and authorities. He shamed them publicly by his victory over them on the cross."

Why "pastors" do not teach these seven verses is the single most disgusting thing regarding our modern-day "church" system. It is because our "pastors" refuse to teach Spiritual Circumcision that renders today's "church" as apostate. Simply ignoring the Heart of the Gospel is no excuse. For, this ignoring renders their "gospel" as a false gospel.

Galatians 1:8-9 NIV - "But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God's curse! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God's curse!"
2ndTim: The point is you're not addressing any point of the proposed thread whatsoever ("Read the first five chapters of Revelations...".) If you want to address Colossians and the other Scriptures, fine, do it; but do it on a different thread, an let the people follow it.

Here is about reading chapters 1-5 of Rev. so we can see the progress of God's plan for us, His beloved. No wonder this Scripture starts with a blessing for those who...

[Rev 1:3 NASB20]
3 Blessed is the one who reads, and those who hear the words of the prophecy
and keep (follow) the things which are written in it; for the time is near.​

So, then, nothing should be preventing us from this blessing. Again: all we have to do is start reading the proposed chapters 1-5, and deem them precious to our spiritual lives.
 
Dec 8, 2021
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There are lots of sevens is this book, it is God's number and represents perfection and completeness.

The "seven stars" in His right hand are the symbol for the angels (pastors) of the seven churches.

The "seven golden candlesticks" represent light, the church is to be the light of this dark world.

This is where dispensationalism is born. The seven churches here representing the entire church age from beginning to end.
Thanks, Charlie, for your neat focus and interpretation of God's Word here. It's encouraging to keep on reading it and be able to enjoy the blessing from 1:3

[Rev 1:3 NASB20]
3 Blessed is the one who reads, and those who hear the words of the prophecy
and keep the things which are written in it; for the time is near.​
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
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2ndTim: The point is you're not addressing any point of the proposed thread whatsoever ("Read the first five chapters of Revelations...".) If you want to address Colossians and the other Scriptures, fine, do it; but do it on a different thread, an let the people follow it.

Here is about reading chapters 1-5 of Rev. so we can see the progress of God's plan for us, His beloved. No wonder this Scripture starts with a blessing for those who...

[Rev 1:3 NASB20]
3 Blessed is the one who reads, and those who hear the words of the prophecy
and keep (follow) the things which are written in it; for the time is near.​

So, then, nothing should be preventing us from this blessing. Again: all we have to do is start reading the proposed chapters 1-5, and deem them precious to our spiritual lives.
Next time I will do better at following the Pablo2021 laws, rules and regulations.

Are there any other criticisms that you'd like to point out? Or, have you satisfied your need of being the CC Police?
 
Dec 8, 2021
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I will state it here to all who hears and reads. Everybody is in the final days. Christendom will be judged. Babylon will fall whether you think you are in it or not.

Your teaching of the 7 years are your doctrines, not mine. It is a false doctrine that leads people astray. Your words - 7 years. Your doctrine. Not a sword of truth but a plastic spoon.

Weave, point and report as much as you will. It is no concern for me.

Lactose says, "Everybody is in the final days." He's also indicating that any narrative including a literal 7-year period is "false doctrine"; but here's what the Scriptures are showing us; first addressing the 70th Week of Daniel, as it relates to the book of Revelations. What we're seeing in the book of Daniel is the very basis of every narrative found in Revelations.

The position that Lactose is taking here was anticipated by God: That there would be those in dispute; attempting to overthrow the very Calendar God used to govern Israel, it being the first Witness setting the framework for any interpretation of this time period.

Rev 13:6 - And he [the Beast] opened his mouth, blaspheming against God, blaspheming His name and His tabernacle, referring to those who dwell in heaven.

Dan 7:25
He will speak out against the Most High, and wear down the saints of the Highest One;
he will intend to make alterations in times and in law; and they will be given
into his hand for a time, times, and half a time
[3.5 years according to the Jewish Calendar].

"Times, time, half a time" is the First witness of the 2-part division of this 7-Year time period:

[Dan 9:27 (a) NASB20]
27 "And he will confirm a covenant with the many for one week,
but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering.​

So, here we have "One Week" and "The Middle of the Week" comprehending the treaty being broken; a treaty exempting Israel from taking the mark of the Beast or worshiping his image. And notice: this treaty will be made "with the many", comprehending all who will be having knowledge of these things:

[Rev 13:5 NASB20]
5 A mouth was given to him [the Beast] speaking arrogant words and blasphemies,
and authority to act for forty-two months was given to him.​

Mat 24:15-16
Jesus said, “Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet,
standing in the holy place (let the reader understand) 16 then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.

[Rev 11:1-2 NASB20]
1 Then there was given to me a measuring rod like a staff; and someone said, "Get up and measure the temple of God and the altar, and those who worship in it.
2 "Leave out the courtyard which is outside the temple and do not measure it, because it has been given to the nations; and they will trample the holy city for forty-two months.

And verse three comprehends the same 42-Month/1260-Day time period where Two Witnesses are protecting their people, but are killed (forcing (primarily) the priestly caste, even other levites to flee the city.)

[Rev 11:3 NASB20] 3 "And I will grant [authority] to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth."

Understanding the broken treaty starts by examining the 42 months that preceded it, where Israel is allowed to build the temple on its original site; measuring the altar, measuring the people; tailoring the priestly garments: all that will be prepared so the daily sacrifice can begin; even allowing the Gentiles a 42-month grace period to get out of the city. Therefore, the middle of the week is the juncture where Israel has to flee, because the image of the Beast is in the temple; and this brings us to 1260 Days: the third Witness of a 3.5-Year period of time.

Dan 12:7
I heard the man dressed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, as he raised his right and left hand toward heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever, that it would be for a time, times, and half a time [3 ½ years]; as soon as they finish shattering the power of the holy people, all these events will be completed.​

Shattering the power of the holy people is indicative of the temple being desecrated by the Beast. Once again, the Scriptures are telling of this happening in the middle of the week, putting a stop to the daily sacrifice (once again: the priestly caste would be losing their lives, along with many others, if they did not flee the city.) And again: from the middle of the week, they are in a place of protection to wait out the following 1260 Days/3.5 years.

[Rev 12:6 NASB20] 6 Then the woman fled into the wilderness where she had a place prepared by God, so that there she would be nourished for 1,260 days.​

The previous verse and the one hereafter confirm that 1260 Days equals a time, times and half a time:

[Rev 12:13-14 NASB20]
13 And when the dragon saw that he was thrown down to the earth, he persecuted the woman [ISRAEL]
who gave birth to the male [Child.] 14 But the two wings of the great eagle were given to the woman,
so that she could fly into the wilderness to her place, where she was nourished
for a time, times, and half a time, away from the presence of the serpent.

All of this timing is so important, that it ensures the remnant of Israel will survive, timed down to the very year and month, day and hour:

Rev 9:15 And the four angels, who had been prepared for the hour and day and the month and the year, were released, so that they would kill a third of the men.

Killing a third of the men who were poised to completely destroy Israel.

[Rev 10:5-6 NASB20] 5 Then the angel whom I saw standing on the sea and on the land raised his right hand to heaven, 6 and swore by Him who lives forever and ever, who created heaven and the things in it, and the earth and the things in it, and the sea and the things in it, that there will no longer be a delay.​

Even the bodies of Moses and Elijah lying in the street for 3.5 DAYS:

Rev 11:7, 9 - When Moses and Elijah have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up out of the abyss will make war with them, overcoming and killing them. … 9 Those from the peoples, tribes, tongues, and nations will look at their dead bodies for three and a half Days, not permitting their bodies to be laid in a tomb.

Rev 11:12-15 And they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, "Come up here." Then they went up into heaven in the cloud, and their enemies watched them.

Therefore, within this hour of Moses and Elijah being raised, the earthquake splits through the Mount of Olives:​

[Rev 11:12-13 NASB95]
13 And
in that hour there was a great earthquake, and a tenth of the city fell; seven thousand people/G444/anthrōpon were killed in the earthquake, and the rest were terrified and gave glory to the God of heaven.

Zec 14:4-5 - In that day His feet will be standing on the Mount of Olives, in front of Jerusalem to the east; and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west by a very large valley, so that half the mountain will move towards the north and the other half towards the south. 5 You will flee by the valley of My mountains, for the valley of the mountains will reach to Azel; yes, you will flee just as you fled before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD, my God, will come, and all the holy ones with Him!
 
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Or tell us: what is the timing and the circumstances in which this prophecy of our Lord will be fulfilled?
Consider
1 Timothy 3:9 Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.
Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Are you no comfortable with the mysteries (that which is not understood or unknowable). This is recommended of those that serve. Why are you teaching salvation before the judgement of God? Why are you claiming that which is unknowable?

But in looking at the way you have been treating these issues, it is plain for some to foresee you will either keep silent about it or keep on having no restraint in contradicting and attacking the truths as deliverd by our Lord, or Daniel or John (just as Jannes and Jambres did Moses):
[2Ti 3:8-9 NASB95]
Consider a few verse down
2 Timothy 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
Where have I said differently from the Scriptures. It is you who create thing that are unwritten and cloth them in your self piety. Your hidden knowledge does not impress nor can it be accepted as true. Scripture are God-breathed, not full of contradictions.
One thing I have noticed is when a lie is challenged, more lies spring.

Your words are meaningless no matter how many times you repeat it. :)

Certainly plenty of God's Word is needed to break the power of the Roman Catholic "Church"/Religion Spells on humanity. Had God not deemed it absolutely critical for us to see Her exposed for who She reallly is, He hadn't told John or any of the prophets about it. But the bible has made it of capital importance for us to know Her behavior from her origins and development all the way up to Her future and final destination.
Yes, she will be burnt as her adherents. But ask yourself this why is it called babylon and not rome? Have you identified babylon or is the RCC it?

Rev 13:6 - And he [the Beast] opened his mouth, blaspheming against God, blaspheming His name and His tabernacle, referring to those who dwell in heaven.
Dan 7:25 He will speak out against the Most High, and wear down the saints of the Highest One;...
I am not calling John a liar. There are 2 resurrections. It is written. Not 3 or 4 as you embrace with your 7 year doctrine.
I am saying a Christian should be proud to die in the name of Christ. It is written. Not whimper to escape the tribulation with misplaced rapture as you are saying.

"Times, time, half a time" is the First witness of the 2-part division of this 7-Year time period:
So Moses and Elijah are these witnesses. Where is it written they are resurrected? Why did John not identify them plainly in the prophecy? Why does God dress them in sackcloths. Are they hindu gurus or something? They dying the 2nd time is not covered in the Bible. The incarnation of the Word is not so special? The beast of the abyss is what? A revived roman empire? (I heard this somewhere before, just thought I would ask)
Can a third temple be built in 3.5 years so the beast can hang his picture? Is the beast some sort of big A antichrist resurrected by God to punish the beast? (I heard this somewhere before, just thought I would ask)
What about the false prophet? I am assuming it is a wicked jew... (I heard this somewhere before, just thought I would ask) When was he born?

Sounds better than the fantastic beasts of hollywood!