Galatians Discussion

[justbyfaith]

2 Corinthians 3:7

But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory. 10 For even what was made glorious had no glory in this respect, because of the glory that excels. 11 For if what is passing away was glorious, what remains is much more glorious.

Can you please explain what the ministry of death and the ministry of condemnation was that was given to moses on the mountain.

And then exp[lain what the ministry of righteousness is?

The ministry of death is the law as it was engraved on stones, away from the hearts of men. It brings condemnation because it is a standard that is unkeepable by anyone who is carnal.

The ministry of righteousness is the law of God as it is written on the hearts and minds of New Covenant believers (Hebrews 8:8-10, Hebrews 10:16, Romans 8:7, Romans 8:4, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 13:8-10; Romans 5:5; 1 John 2:3-6); in that the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts (Romans 5:5) and this love is the fulfilling of the law (Romans 13:8-10, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6)

 

[justbyfaith]

so are you being obedient so as to not be condemned, or what?

Because this is what it appears you are saying here.

our conversation is what teaches us how to be morally upright people who are obedient.

Not how one maintains salvation correct?

If you are genuinely born again, it is that which will maintain your obedience (of course not the other way around).

 

[justbyfaith]

You can;t do it my friend.

Unless you think you are sinless. You have failed to keep the law.

James 2:10
For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.

James said if we even stumble in one area we have failed to keep the law.

Jesus re-defined the law in the Sermon on the Mount; and Paul again re-defined it (Hebrews 7:12) so that it amounts to walking not after the flesh but after the Spirit (Romans 8:4).

We are not obligated to obey the flesh (Romans 8:12 (kjv, NLT)).

Therefore we can walk consistently, not after the flesh but after the Spirit, for an extended period of time; even for the rest of our lives (Luke 1:74-75).

 

[justbyfaith]

you did not read what I said.

Please try to keep up with me..

Christ did more than save us from our sins. If you think that is all he did. You are already in trouble

That is primarily what He came to do.

But I am interested in what you might emphasize as being what else He did.

 

[justbyfaith]

No, it is to prove we have failed to live up to Gods standard. and because of that, we are cursed. The panalty of sin is death..but it also teaches what must be done, and who did it.



You missed the rest of what it taught us, Lets get that settle first before we go here.


Now your just being sarcastic my friend. Once again lets go back to what the purpose of the law was. From this post, you do not yet understand it, or what I have said it is.

If we do not come to a knowledge there, there is no need to go further, because we are already starting off not understanding.

No, I was not being sarcastic but was expressing a genuine concern.

And you have failed to answer.

 

[LactoseIntolerant]

Hello, you can call me Kor. I wanted to start a discussion on Galatians. I’m reading through it, thinking different things over, and want to put some thoughts down to begin.
There is one part I’d like to mention. 2:14-21. The book was written to the Galatian Christians who happened to be gentiles. The problem, which Paul saw first hand, and confronted Peter about in front of the other Jewish believers, was about their hypocrisy. The trouble wasn’t Peter or the other Jews with him believing justification by works. They already knew justification was through faith in Jesus Christ, and not by works of the law. In v.16 the word “knowing” connects “We who are Jews” speaking of Paul, Peter and those playing hypocrites with Peter are all Jews who are “knowing”. What do they know? “…that a person is not justified by works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus”. I’m gathering from this text, that it’s not a problem of a wrong belief about works meriting God’s favor. Rather, these Jews acting hypocritical by separating themselves from the Galatian gentile believers because they aren’t circumcised, are following Torah in that moment, separated from their gentile brethren as if they’re not their brethren. A table fellowship problem, who can sit and eat with who, circumcised people separated from uncircumcised people, not eating together, is contrary with the Gospel, and perverts the Gospel in its intent, not so much it’s content. The intent being both Jew and Gentile joined together as one people of God and all being Abrahams children according to God’s Covenantal promise in Genesis 15.
I’ll begin there.

The helipad is on the roof, where you can see the sun, moon and stars. The sewage backstop is in the basement and stops the garbage flowing in from the outside. If you need to catch a helicopter ride to New City, no point hanging out in the basement.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

The ministry of death is the law as it was engraved on stones, away from the hearts of men. It brings condemnation because it is a standard that is unkeepable by anyone who is carnal.

Can you please show me where in scripture it says only those who are canal can not keep the law engraven on stones.

You do realise, Moses gave the requirement, and Paul also repeated this requirment do you not? Can you tell us what that requirement is?

The ministry of righteousness is the law of God as it is written on the hearts and minds of New Covenant believers (Hebrews 8:8-10, Hebrews 10:16, Romans 8:7, Romans 8:4, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 13:8-10; Romans 5:5; 1 John 2:3-6); in that the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts (Romans 5:5) and this love is the fulfilling of the law (Romans 13:8-10, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6)

do you think it is the same law (moses and law of righteousness)? mentioned here? if so why?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

If you are genuinely born again, it is that which will maintain your obedience (of course not the other way around).

so it is that I will be obedient. SO I have no fear if I am born again I can stop being obedient and lose salvation?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Jesus re-defined the law in the Sermon on the Mount;

Um no my friend he did not redefine it. He just showed that the law says this, But I tell you that.

and Paul again re-defined it (Hebrews 7:12) so that it amounts to walking not after the flesh but after the Spirit (Romans 8:4).

No. Walking after the spirit is how we obey. or keep us from breaking it it is not redefined.

Paul still called the law the minsitry of death and condemnation

We are not obligated to obey the flesh (Romans 8:12 (kjv, NLT)).

Therefore we can walk consistently, not after the flesh but after the Spirit, for an extended period of time; even for the rest of our lives (Luke 1:74-75).

yes I agree

but this is not keeping the law. This is following Christ

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

That is primarily what He came to do.

But I am interested in what you might emphasize as being what else He did.

what did the law teach us?

it did not just teach us what sin was, it taught us other things.

Can you name them?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

No, I was not being sarcastic but was expressing a genuine concern.

And you have failed to answer.

excuse me my friend, But you are being rude. You were being sarcastic. You failed to show you understand what I was saying, and then you kept pushing. You demand I answer a question, yet you refuse to show you understand what I am thinking, Your question is invalid because it did not take into account what I believe, you tried to direct the conversation to your way.

Thats not being open to discussion. that is being rude

If your not going to understand the root of our conversation or at least try to understand what I am saying without assuming you know. then there is no need to pursue this any further. You have them proven you have no capacity to disuss what we are discussing

 

[justbyfaith]

Can you please show me where in scripture it says only those who are canal can not keep the law engraven on stones.

You do realise, Moses gave the requirement, and Paul also repeated this requirment do you not? Can you tell us what that requirement is?


do you think it is the same law (moses and law of righteousness)? mentioned here? if so why?

Romans 7:14-25 shows that those who are carnal cannot keep the law.

Romans 8:2-4 shows that those who are spiritual can have the righteousness of the law fulfilled in them.

Paul re-defined the law as walking not after the flesh but after the Spirit; after Jesus re-defined the law before him in the Sermon on the Mount (see Hebrews 7:12).

 

[justbyfaith]

so it is that I will be obedient. SO I have no fear if I am born again I can stop being obedient and lose salvation?

If you were to stop being obedient it would be the evidence that you were not born again.

 

[justbyfaith]

Um no my friend he did not redefine it. He just showed that the law says this, But I tell you that.


No. Walking after the spirit is how we obey. or keep us from breaking it it is not redefined.

Paul still called the law the minsitry of death and condemnation

yes I agree

but this is not keeping the law. This is following Christ

You just contradicted yourself.

First you said that we obey or keep from breaking the law by walking according to the Spirit.

Then you say that walking according to the Spirit is not obeying the law.

I would say that those who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit have the righteousness of the law fulfilled in them.

Do you agree or disagree?

 

[justbyfaith]

what did the law teach us?

it did not just teach us what sin was, it taught us other things.

Can you name them?

I would like for you to name for me what Jesus came to do other than save us from our sins.

 

[justbyfaith]

excuse me my friend, But you are being rude. You were being sarcastic. You failed to show you understand what I was saying, and then you kept pushing. You demand I answer a question, yet you refuse to show you understand what I am thinking, Your question is invalid because it did not take into account what I believe, you tried to direct the conversation to your way.

Thats not being open to discussion. that is being rude

If your not going to understand the root of our conversation or at least try to understand what I am saying without assuming you know. then there is no need to pursue this any further. You have them proven you have no capacity to disuss what we are discussing

I think that you were not taking into account what I believe.

So who is the one being rude, according to your own standard?

You failed to answer my argument; either because you don't have an answer or because you do not understand my argument.

But what is it about what you believe (that I am failing to take into account) that makes my argument invalid, in your opinion?

 

[justbyfaith]

*

I do not understand your thinking

the schoolmaster was to LEAD US TO CHRIST

Once we have christ, The schoolmaster HAS COMPLETED ITS JOB

That is why we do not need the schoolmaster anymore.

It has nothing to do with obedience. It has to do with the fact we have admitted WE ARE NOT OBEDIENT.

So, the job of the schoolmaster is to prove that we are disobedient and cannot be obedient.

So, what now? Now that it has completed its job, we are to resign ourselves to the fact that we are disobedient and just say, hell, I may as well continue to be disobedient since that is what I am.

Therefore the purpose of the law is to show us we are disobedient so that we will accept that that is what we are and walk in disobedience ever after?

I believe that one of the law's purposes is to show us what sin is.

We are commanded to cease from sinning in such passages as 1 Corinthians 15:34, Ephesians 4:26. And sin is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4).

The one who is born of God doth not commit sin and "cannot sin" (1 John 3:9).

This ought to tell you that the law, as a schoolmaster, teaches us something...how we are to behave once we are out in the real world.

Once we have been trained by the schoolmaster, we will behave as we are supposed to without the continued tutelage of the schoolmaster.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Romans 7:14-25 shows that those who are carnal cannot keep the law.

Romans 8:2-4 shows that those who are spiritual can have the righteousness of the law fulfilled in them.

Paul re-defined the law as walking not after the flesh but after the Spirit; after Jesus re-defined the law before him in the Sermon on the Mount (see Hebrews 7:12).

Romans 7 is paul speaking of his stuggle between the flesh and spirit. It

Again, Jesus did not redefine the law. He showed how week the law was. The law says this, but I tell you that.

Why did you refuse to post what Moses said was the requirment of the law?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

If you were to stop being obedient it would be the evidence that you were not born again.

Ahh, So your view is salvation is though obedience, how good is good enough?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

You just contradicted yourself.

First you said that we obey or keep from breaking the law by walking according to the Spirit.

Then you say that walking according to the Spirit is not obeying the law.

I would say that those who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit have the righteousness of the law fulfilled in them.

Do you agree or disagree?

Lol. No,

I said when we walk by the spirit we are obedient, we do more than keep the law. The law is a base of a few commands. Obedience is far greater and for more than ust keeping the law.

The righteousness of the law is fulfilled in Christ. Not by what you are saying
once again, Post what Moses said the requirmeent of the law was. What is Gods standard?

You can;t keep it my friend. You can water it down, You can make it appear your keeping it. You can decieve yourself that you are keeping it. But as james said, Slip up just once. You have failed to keep the law

You can be a law keeper and guilty of the law at the same time