Bread Experiment

[JohnDB]

So today I made an experiment with bread and flours and liquids.

Three batches.

1 C liquid
2½C flour
1T sugar
1t salt
1 envelope yeast.

All three were the same as far as kneading in my mixer.

But one had ½ C egg whites and ½ C warm water and used All Trumps high Gluten Bread Flour.

One used the basic recipe with an additional 1 t of lemon juice added and I used All Trumps flour.

The third was the basic recipe except I used Gold medal bread flour from the grocery store.

The results are...

The egg white was very chewy by far comparison and didn't rise as well as the other two even though I made and formed it first.

The lemon juice added loaf was indeed almost as chewy as the first one but much lighter and rose more than the egg white loaf.

The third loaf had very little in the way of chewy texture...(gold medal bread flour) seemed almost like a waste. Very starchy by comparison of the other two loaves.

All loaves were free formed into baghetts and allowed to proof with cut marks being the identifying characteristics as to which was which.

Now if I had some sort of better proof box to get more rise out of them than what I did...it would have been a smidge better. No large tunnelling or air pockets were seen and the crumb and air holes were uniform and generally good.

Now...can you use egg whites and lemon juice to get the chewy texture out of store shelf bread flour in the Southeast?....that's a really good question. But currently my thinking is "no".

 

[JohnDB]

So...
Last night I made my infamous honey, oatmeal bread.

I really need a proof box and better quality honey than what I used.

But it wasn't horrible.

 

[VineyardsOfEngedi]

I got a recipe from youtube to make biscuits and do not need an oven. I can bake it on top in a cast iron skillet

 

[JohnDB]

I got a recipe from youtube to make biscuits and do not need an oven. I can bake it on top in a cast iron skillet

Biscuits are not a yeast raised bread.

There is a form of bread made from sourdough starter that cooks on the top layer inside a dutch oven. (After the meat, vegetables and potatoes are layered inside)

But they aren't called biscuits.

 

[VineyardsOfEngedi]

Biscuits are not a yeast raised bread.

There is a form of bread made from sourdough starter that cooks on the top layer inside a dutch oven. (After the meat, vegetables and potatoes are layered inside)

But they aren't called biscuits.

You mean like potpie? I'm confused now are you in the USA? Not sure what you mean by biscuits are not a yeast raised bread? LOL

 

[JStates]

Well, I'm not a baker but being gluten free I can say with authority that the gluten directly translates into chewyness. Man, I miss that texture. I think my mom (who cooks gluten free) uses stuff like xanthan gum as a substitute to gluten in order to make stuff chewier, but it's a poor substitute. Gluten free stuff tends to be very dry and crumbly.

 

[VineyardsOfEngedi]

Well, I'm not a baker but being gluten free I can say with authority that the gluten directly translates into chewyness. Man, I miss that texture. I think my mom (who cooks gluten free) uses stuff like xanthan gum as a substitute to gluten in order to make stuff chewier, but it's a poor substitute. Gluten free stuff tends to be very dry and crumbly.

People use the gluten to make vegan alternatives. If you make wheat dough then set in water everything that rises you discard and what remains is gluten and that's what they use to make "chicken" or so I've been told.

 

[JStates]

People use the gluten to make vegan alternatives. If you make wheat dough then set in water everything that rises you discard and what remains is gluten and that's what they use to make "chicken" or so I've been told.

Fake chicken?! That sounds even more tragic than eating gluten free!

 

[VineyardsOfEngedi]

Well, I'm not a baker but being gluten free I can say with authority that the gluten directly translates into chewyness. Man, I miss that texture. I think my mom (who cooks gluten free) uses stuff like xanthan gum as a substitute to gluten in order to make stuff chewier, but it's a poor substitute. Gluten free stuff tends to be very dry and crumbly.

I've added pineapple to brownie mix, comes out super moist

 

[VineyardsOfEngedi]

Fake chicken?! That sounds even more tragic than eating gluten free!

As opposed to bioengineered meat

 

[VineyardsOfEngedi]

Chamomile Cookies

1 stick butter or margarine, softened
1 cup sifted all-purpose flour
2/3 cup brown sugar
2 medium egg yolks
grated rind of 2 lemons
11/2 teaspoons crushed dried chamomile flowers

Cut the butter into the flour until the mixture resembles crumbs. Add the rest of the ingredients and, using floured hands, knead the mixture. Cover and chill for 30 minutes. Heat oven to 325f. Roll the dough into 1-inch balls. Place on a pan and flatten with the bottom of a fork. Bake for 12-15 minutes.

Courtesy of my The Republic of Tea book

*A practical guide from the Ministry of Information <- that reminds me of 1984

 

[JohnDB]

The reason behind the Honey-Oat bread is that it's an "impossible" bread.

Between the starch and fiber of the Oats and the enzymes of the honey it's not supposed to rise at all and you end up with a blob of cooked goo instead of bread.

The dough is sticky and difficult to work with.

But the flavor when done correctly and properly is awesome. They make honey nut Cheerios for a reason. The flavors work well together.

And I need to get this recipe finalized for the bakery so it can be mass produced.

 

[VineyardsOfEngedi]

The reason behind the Honey-Oat bread is that it's an "impossible" bread.

Between the starch and fiber of the Oats and the enzymes of the honey it's not supposed to rise at all and you end up with a blob of cooked goo instead of bread.

The dough is sticky and difficult to work with.

But the flavor when done correctly and properly is awesome. They make honey nut Cheerios for a reason. The flavors work well together.

And I need to get this recipe finalized for the bakery so it can be mass produced.

Sorry I forgot this was a bread experiment thread, I posted a recipe hehe. They make honey oat cookies too, I'm sure.

 

[JohnDB]

Sorry I forgot this was a bread experiment thread, I posted a recipe hehe. They make honey oat cookies too, I'm sure.

Its all good...
I'm not going to get excited about it.

But...experimenting with flours and sugars and flavors with yeast raised breads is a Christian thing.

All around the whole planet bread bakeries are known as the place for Christians to "hang out" even if the government has outlawed Christianity.
So I thought that discussing bread and bread making was appropriate for this forum.

 

[VineyardsOfEngedi]

Its all good...
I'm not going to get excited about it.

But...experimenting with flours and sugars and flavors with yeast raised breads is a Christian thing.

All around the whole planet bread bakeries are known as the place for Christians to "hang out" even if the government has outlawed Christianity.
So I thought that discussing bread and bread making was appropriate for this forum.

I didn't know it was a Christian thing. I think the only thing that puts me off of bread is that the majority of flour that is sold in stores today is not like before. For example, wheat, they have engineered it to where it now grows smaller etc. I did find an einkorn one that supposedly isn't modified and is 100% organic but its sold in small quantities. Maybe if I special order or something? I think somewhere in Iran they still have wheat fields of pure wheat from before. I also learned that drinking vinegar after eating bread helps so its not turn into sugar as quickly.

 

[JohnDB]

I didn't know it was a Christian thing. I think the only thing that puts me off of bread is that the majority of flour that is sold in stores today is not like before. For example, wheat, they have engineered it to where it now grows smaller etc. I did find an einkorn one that supposedly isn't modified and is 100% organic but its sold in small quantities. Maybe if I special order or something? I think somewhere in Iran they still have wheat fields of pure wheat from before. I also learned that drinking vinegar after eating bread helps so its not turn into sugar as quickly.

There are many varieties of wheat...
There are several groups of wheat flour. The main three are: Bread, all purpose, and pastry.

All purpose is a blend of bread flour and pastry flour (aka cake/cookie flour)

After this there's even more specialization in each main type of flour as with each brand.

Most wheat producers grow their wheat by pre arranged contracts with the major flour producers with specialized strains of wheat that they have developed. IOW Pillsbury has farmers that are growing wheat especially for them for the flour they sell in the grocery store or to bakeries. They also have wheat farmers growing special wheat for the cake mixes or for packages of cake flour or for the canned biscuits and another for the frozen biscuits. Each variety is engineered to be better suited (by their criteria) for handling and performance guidelines of the finished product. Not many of those guidelines are about flavor...and the end results demonstrate that.

Now when purchasing even King Arthur flour in the grocery store it's starchy flavor and texture is more than any of the cheapest commercial flours I can buy. And that's a massive difference between retail and commercial flours. Both labeled the same but with very different results.

I have my favorite brands of commercial bakery flours. They aren't exactly inexpensive but there are times that performance matters. And if I'm going to put my name and reputation on the finished product...it has to be consistently perfect every time. Besides, if the customers keep buying them and I'm making a profit I don't see how that's not the object of the exercise.

And apparently soon I might get back to cooking for a living once again... gonna have a talk with a man that wants to see that happen. And I think that he is actually serious about it. Which is going to create a LOT of work for me.

But oh well... at least I'll have something to do besides get in trouble talking on forums.

 

[VineyardsOfEngedi]

There are many varieties of wheat...
There are several groups of wheat flour. The main three are: Bread, all purpose, and pastry.

All purpose is a blend of bread flour and pastry flour (aka cake/cookie flour)

After this there's even more specialization in each main type of flour as with each brand.

Most wheat producers grow their wheat by pre arranged contracts with the major flour producers with specialized strains of wheat that they have developed. IOW Pillsbury has farmers that are growing wheat especially for them for the flour they sell in the grocery store or to bakeries. They also have wheat farmers growing special wheat for the cake mixes or for packages of cake flour or for the canned biscuits and another for the frozen biscuits. Each variety is engineered to be better suited (by their criteria) for handling and performance guidelines of the finished product. Not many of those guidelines are about flavor...and the end results demonstrate that.

Now when purchasing even King Arthur flour in the grocery store it's starchy flavor and texture is more than any of the cheapest commercial flours I can buy. And that's a massive difference between retail and commercial flours. Both labeled the same but with very different results.

I have my favorite brands of commercial bakery flours. They aren't exactly inexpensive but there are times that performance matters. And if I'm going to put my name and reputation on the finished product...it has to be consistently perfect every time. Besides, if the customers keep buying them and I'm making a profit I don't see how that's not the object of the exercise.

And apparently soon I might get back to cooking for a living once again... gonna have a talk with a man that wants to see that happen. And I think that he is actually serious about it. Which is going to create a LOT of work for me.

But oh well... at least I'll have something to do besides get in trouble talking on forums.

I wanted to put more than one reaction, informative and funny . Well I think you're off to a good start, seem to have a deal of knowledge. And I don't know something about them messing with the strains seems iffy . I do know that wheat causes a lot of excess mucus in the body and that causes inflammation which leads to all sorts of ailments.

I really hope you get to do what you enjoy if that's cooking keep you out of trouble

 

[JohnDB]

I wanted to put more than one reaction, informative and funny . Well I think you're off to a good start, seem to have a deal of knowledge. And I don't know something about them messing with the strains seems iffy . I do know that wheat causes a lot of excess mucus in the body and that causes inflammation which leads to all sorts of ailments.

I really hope you get to do what you enjoy if that's cooking keep you out of trouble

Well that is a result now isn't it?

Corn and wheat have been being modified since the first farm thousands of years ago.
There aren't any "original" strains left. Even by Jesus time there were many varieties of wheat all engineered for their specific purposes. Same thing with corn.
But with some of these varieties of wheat we keep coming up with gluten allergies... moreso than ever before. Gotta be a reason.

Something has to be causing all of these allergies.

But oh well...

I do like pumpernickel (rye) very much. Strong flavor!

I got spoiled rotten in Europe.
I could see the field that grew the wheat, turn my head and see the mill that ground it. Turn my head a little more and see the bakery, then look down and see the crumbs in my shirt.

 

[VineyardsOfEngedi]

Well that is a result now isn't it?

Corn and wheat have been being modified since the first farm thousands of years ago.
There aren't any "original" strains left. Even by Jesus time there were many varieties of wheat all engineered for their specific purposes. Same thing with corn.
But with some of these varieties of wheat we keep coming up with gluten allergies... moreso than ever before. Gotta be a reason.

Something has to be causing all of these allergies.

But oh well...

I do like pumpernickel (rye) very much. Strong flavor!

I got spoiled rotten in Europe.
I could see the field that grew the wheat, turn my head and see the mill that ground it. Turn my head a little more and see the bakery, then look down and see the crumbs in my shirt.

Another informative post, I am conflicted . Why do they modify it or why did they do it at that time too? And maybe it has to do with the pesticides, chemicals etc.? I like pumpernickel too seems like the healthiest option in stores at least what I've deduced lol.
Oh I can imagine that scene I'm jelly.

 

[JohnDB]

Another informative post, I am conflicted . Why do they modify it or why did they do it at that time too? And maybe it has to do with the pesticides, chemicals etc.? I like pumpernickel too seems like the healthiest option in stores at least what I've deduced lol.
Oh I can imagine that scene I'm jelly.

They modified it for various reasons... easier harvesting, less likely to get blown over, bigger kernels, bugs liked it less than others or something else along those lines.

It's more recently we grow roundup resistant, disease resistant, drought resistant and etc. Most are modified with a goal in mind...