I am a Seventh Day Adventist, Ask Me.
- Thread starter gotime
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Very interesting 
You are right : nobody gets saved BY obeying the commandments
But I beg to disagree, indeed believers (including you, I hope) obey the commandments to the required standard.
Four things makes the required standard accessible to men :
1> We do not have to obey the human litteral observance of the commandments : human interpretation is flawed and this is why the jewish observance of the commandments was condemned by Jesus.
Mar 7:7-8
7- However, they worship Me in vain, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men."
8- For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men, the dippings of pots and cups. And many other such things you do.
2> Ignorance does not count. God gives us power, but not automatic and immediate knowledge of all the meaning of the whole Word of God - therefore our hearts still can deceive us (Jer 17:9) into thinking we love God fully whereas we still have not surrendered this or that. This is by ignorance, not deliberate sin. Thankfully, God overlooks ignorance, it does not count -
Act 17:30
30- Truly, then, God overlooking the times of ignorance, now He strictly commands all men everywhere to repent,
3> When we failed to obey, we can just confess and we get to be made rigtheous again. Technically, failure to obediance, as long as we confess, is not below the required standard.
1Jn 1:9
9- If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
4> As said before, Faith grants us power.
1Jn 5:3-4
3- For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments, and His commandments are not burdensome.
4- For everything that has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that overcomes the world, our faith.
You are right : nobody gets saved BY obeying the commandments
But I beg to disagree, indeed believers (including you, I hope) obey the commandments to the required standard.
Four things makes the required standard accessible to men :
1> We do not have to obey the human litteral observance of the commandments : human interpretation is flawed and this is why the jewish observance of the commandments was condemned by Jesus.
Mar 7:7-8
7- However, they worship Me in vain, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men."
8- For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men, the dippings of pots and cups. And many other such things you do.
2> Ignorance does not count. God gives us power, but not automatic and immediate knowledge of all the meaning of the whole Word of God - therefore our hearts still can deceive us (Jer 17:9) into thinking we love God fully whereas we still have not surrendered this or that. This is by ignorance, not deliberate sin. Thankfully, God overlooks ignorance, it does not count -
Act 17:30
30- Truly, then, God overlooking the times of ignorance, now He strictly commands all men everywhere to repent,
3> When we failed to obey, we can just confess and we get to be made rigtheous again. Technically, failure to obediance, as long as we confess, is not below the required standard.
1Jn 1:9
9- If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
4> As said before, Faith grants us power.
1Jn 5:3-4
3- For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments, and His commandments are not burdensome.
4- For everything that has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that overcomes the world, our faith.
Paul wrote this in Galatians 6
13 For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law; but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh.
How many SDAs actually keep the Sabbath? Do they light a micro fire in their cars by cranking the car or opening the door and making the light come on? Do they drive more than a sabbath day's journey for church? Maybe in some country some SDAs who live in a village just walk next door. Is that the norm in the US?
13 For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law; but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh.
How many SDAs actually keep the Sabbath? Do they light a micro fire in their cars by cranking the car or opening the door and making the light come on? Do they drive more than a sabbath day's journey for church? Maybe in some country some SDAs who live in a village just walk next door. Is that the norm in the US?
If you don't want to keep the law, than why are you here exactly? Are you encouraging people to throw aside the Law of Moses?
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
https://biblehub.com/matthew/5-19.htm
I just can't picture Jesus teaching people to break HIS Father's commandments. I just can't. Jesus was Jewish, Jesus was a Jewish Rabbi, Jesus celebrated Passover, Feast of Dedication, and etc. This line of reasoning of talking down to people, because they are trying to be faithful to the Bible is incredibly disturbing to me. Are not people allowed to serve God the way they want, or do they have to be in line with every stranger on Christian Chat to be right with God?
Not looking to argue any more. We can just say, we disagree, and move on. Seems reasonable to me, but if you feel like your doing God's work by telling believers to forget the Ten Commandments, than that's your ministry it seems.
Christian Science and Seventh Day Adventism have absolutely nothing to do with each other, and Ellen White proactively attacked Blavatsky. Mary Baker Eddy was a Swedenborgian Phenomenologist, Ellen White was a literalist. As far as you having something against the Washington Monument, that's just a sign that you're either not from the United States, from the United States but totally completely and utterly illiterate, or some kind of traitor. Shut up, you haven't done the readings.
I've heard a lot of people claiming that more than one smaller North American local denomination "believes that Jesus preexisted as Michael the Archangel", but I've absolutely never ever once seen a single citation from the church's literature proving that they believed that. I AM NOT referring here to proofs or disproofs of the theory from "The Bible" or from an actual or alleged modern language translation. I'm referring to a total lack of any textual evidence from anyone at all or recount of any personal conversation with any church authority named or named by location only that anyone anywhere believes that at all.
Ok Well FIRST of all, thank you for answering me, i wanted to know what was taught becasue..well I didnt know. so thank You.
However, I would like to adress a few things, WHY would an angel be fighting a MAN? An angel would NOT be struggling with a MAN, So the "prince of persia" must be a spiritual description...Persia beign the WORLD at the time...
John 12:31
"Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out."
Ephesians 2:2
"in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.
So Michael would NOT be strugling with a Mortal MAN, would he?
So, back to the Glorious man, you say it may be Gabriel. Ok, Well:
Daniel 8:15-16
And it came to pass, when I, even I Daniel, had seen the vision, that I sought to understand it; and, behold, there stood before me as the appearance of a man. And I heard a man's voice between the banks of the Ulai, which called, and said, Gabriel, make this man to understand the vision
Ok the FIRST mention of GABRIEL is in chapter 8. Says, he looks like a man, but he doesnt say he had any extaordinary features.
Then Gabriel is mention AGAIN in chapter 9:21:
"yea, while I was speaking in prayer, the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation.
So Gabriel is ALWAYS mentioned as a man, and ALWAYS called GABRIEL. Never called anything else, and not described in any other way, but looking like a man. THEN, in chapter 10 It mentions the GLorious man. Daniel DID NOT say he recognized him as GABRIEL, like he did in chapter 9, in reference to chapter 8, THIS was a NEW and GLORIOUS man. and this GLORIOUS man who was NOT Gabriel, talks OF Michael.
So i wonder how this is come acrossed, and WHY? and WHO is the Glorious Man?
so thank You.However, I would like to adress a few things, WHY would an angel be fighting a MAN? An angel would NOT be struggling with a MAN, So the "prince of persia" must be a spiritual description...Persia beign the WORLD at the time...
John 12:31
"Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out."
Ephesians 2:2
"in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.
So Michael would NOT be strugling with a Mortal MAN, would he?
So, back to the Glorious man, you say it may be Gabriel. Ok, Well:
Daniel 8:15-16
And it came to pass, when I, even I Daniel, had seen the vision, that I sought to understand it; and, behold, there stood before me as the appearance of a man. And I heard a man's voice between the banks of the Ulai, which called, and said, Gabriel, make this man to understand the vision
Ok the FIRST mention of GABRIEL is in chapter 8. Says, he looks like a man, but he doesnt say he had any extaordinary features.
Then Gabriel is mention AGAIN in chapter 9:21:
"yea, while I was speaking in prayer, the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation.
So Gabriel is ALWAYS mentioned as a man, and ALWAYS called GABRIEL. Never called anything else, and not described in any other way, but looking like a man. THEN, in chapter 10 It mentions the GLorious man. Daniel DID NOT say he recognized him as GABRIEL, like he did in chapter 9, in reference to chapter 8, THIS was a NEW and GLORIOUS man. and this GLORIOUS man who was NOT Gabriel, talks OF Michael.
So i wonder how this is come acrossed, and WHY? and WHO is the Glorious Man?
I see people talking about commands not given to them. If someone were trying to tell all Jews to dress like the high priest, saying the Law commanded it, that would be an example of it.
We have people doing the same with the Law of Moses and Gentiles.
But my question is valid, and not really that related to your response. Do any SDAs keep the law?
We have people doing the same with the Law of Moses and Gentiles.
But my question is valid, and not really that related to your response. Do any SDAs keep the law?
The definition of the law is being confused. The law of God, the royal Law, the law of liberty, the holy law, the law of ordinances and the laws of Moses, all need to be understood in their context.
The laws that God gave people to obey can be for a set time but that does not mean they are all for a set time.
God does not change and His principles do not change.
Sin is the transgression of the law. Which law? Because this law was and is defining sin from start to finish.
1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
Which law?
Jas 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
Jas 2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Jas 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
Jas 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
1Co 15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
1Co 15:57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
We are told to keep the law, not to ssave ourselves or do away with our past sins but because it is love.
Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
No law of any type can take away our sins, only Jesus and His blood can our sins be forgiven.
Heb 10:11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
Many laws have no place today because Jesus has taken their place but some laws do not change.... Killing is still wrong, taking the Lords name in vain is still wrong, and will always be wrong.
Defining which laws are still valid today and which are not is easy.
The ten commandments are Gods moral Law and are to be written on our hearts today.
Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
The laws that God gave people to obey can be for a set time but that does not mean they are all for a set time.
God does not change and His principles do not change.
Sin is the transgression of the law. Which law? Because this law was and is defining sin from start to finish.
1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
Which law?
Jas 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
Jas 2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Jas 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
Jas 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
1Co 15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
1Co 15:57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
We are told to keep the law, not to ssave ourselves or do away with our past sins but because it is love.
Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
No law of any type can take away our sins, only Jesus and His blood can our sins be forgiven.
Heb 10:11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
Many laws have no place today because Jesus has taken their place but some laws do not change.... Killing is still wrong, taking the Lords name in vain is still wrong, and will always be wrong.
Defining which laws are still valid today and which are not is easy.
The ten commandments are Gods moral Law and are to be written on our hearts today.
Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
I hope SDA's don't try to keep the law to be saved. But i know i try to keep the law because i love Jesus. It is sin to transgress the law and sin is what caused the death of Jesus so i aim to not continually crucify my Saviour.
Like Paul i can not overcome the flesh on my own but with Jesus victory over sin is promised.
1Co_15:57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: .....
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? .....Thank God for Jesus...
Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
If there is no law condemning us of sin today we do not need a saviour from sin today.
Like Paul i can not overcome the flesh on my own but with Jesus victory over sin is promised.
1Co_15:57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: .....
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? .....Thank God for Jesus...
Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
If there is no law condemning us of sin today we do not need a saviour from sin today.
I do not advocate for sin.
Some of the issues to consider
Putting laws on people to whom the law was not commanded, e.g. telling everyone not to eat pork or meat or to observe certain days, festivals, etc. when these were commanded to a specific people.
Seeking to be justified by law-keeping rather than through faith and fulfilling the righteousness of the Low through the Spirit.
I do wonder if there are any SDAs that keep the laws they insist must be kept, but in line with the way they are to be kept in scripture, e.g. not starting fires. Isn't sparking a car or light starting a fire like the Orthodox Jews think. Isn't driving, especially more than a 'sabbath's day's journey' on the Sabbath an issue for SDAs? What about eating shrimp but not pork-- not saying this is typical of SDAs but I saw one do that in Indonesia.
Some of the issues to consider
Putting laws on people to whom the law was not commanded, e.g. telling everyone not to eat pork or meat or to observe certain days, festivals, etc. when these were commanded to a specific people.
Seeking to be justified by law-keeping rather than through faith and fulfilling the righteousness of the Low through the Spirit.
I do wonder if there are any SDAs that keep the laws they insist must be kept, but in line with the way they are to be kept in scripture, e.g. not starting fires. Isn't sparking a car or light starting a fire like the Orthodox Jews think. Isn't driving, especially more than a 'sabbath's day's journey' on the Sabbath an issue for SDAs? What about eating shrimp but not pork-- not saying this is typical of SDAs but I saw one do that in Indonesia.
God is Lord of all people and the Sabbath was made before sin. The Sabbath was made holy before Jew or Gentile existed.
The teaching that certain laws are just for Jews is the way many side step the issue.. The moral laws have not stopped and Jesus made that clear. Please consider the bible verses below.
Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
Mar 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
Mar 2:28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. .....
Mat 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: .......
Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
Which law has not passed away?
The 10 commandments.
Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Mat 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Jesus said to keep the commandments not me.
The teaching that certain laws are just for Jews is the way many side step the issue.. The moral laws have not stopped and Jesus made that clear. Please consider the bible verses below.
Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
Mar 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
Mar 2:28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. .....
Mat 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: .......
Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
Which law has not passed away?
The 10 commandments.
Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Mat 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Jesus said to keep the commandments not me.
When you advocate the law and the keeping of the law does not mean you believe you are justified by the law.
Seeking to be justified by the law is wrong, i agree. Faith in Jesus and what He has done for us is the only way to be Justified.
Jesus fulfilled the righteousness of the law because we can never do it ourselves. Jesus gives us the gift of His righteousness.
A gift is not earnt or paid for.
Do we then make void the law through grace ?
Do we continue in sin because Jesus is able to forgive all sins?
Do we throw out the moral law because Jesus has taken the consequences of breaking the law away?
NO .....Paul is clear....
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
1Jn 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
If i LOVE my Saviour and keep the law because of that love, i'm not trying to earn salvation. I'm keeping it because of the great gift that i have been given.
Seeking to be justified by the law is wrong, i agree. Faith in Jesus and what He has done for us is the only way to be Justified.
Jesus fulfilled the righteousness of the law because we can never do it ourselves. Jesus gives us the gift of His righteousness.
A gift is not earnt or paid for.
Do we then make void the law through grace ?
Do we continue in sin because Jesus is able to forgive all sins?
Do we throw out the moral law because Jesus has taken the consequences of breaking the law away?
NO .....Paul is clear....
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
1Jn 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
If i LOVE my Saviour and keep the law because of that love, i'm not trying to earn salvation. I'm keeping it because of the great gift that i have been given.