The False Teaching (& Truth) of what happens at the Rapture.

[Absolutely]

So no - one will be left behind then

...that's what Paul said.

Lets look and see;

Mat 24
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.


Mat 25
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

Most all churches have carnal nominal sinful believers galore.

They do not go in the rapture.

 

[Jackson123]

Lets look and see;

Mat 24
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.


Mat 25
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

Most all churches have carnal nominal sinful believers galore.

They do not go in the rapture.

Rapture happen immediately after tribulation so after tribulation not repent one left

 

[cv5]

huh???
Be ready after the gt???
Am i hearing this right????

No that's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that these parables are an exhortation to prepare during the time of the seven year tribulation for the now obviously inevitable Second Coming.

The thing is the rapture cannot possibly be concealed the entire planet will know that it happened. Since the Bible will certainly be available to read during the time the tribulation, everyone with ears to hear the parables will in fact prepare for the SC, when the already wedded Groom arrives with His bride for judgment and the wedding supper/banquet/festivities.

 

[Absolutely]

Rapture happen immediately after tribulation so after tribulation not repent one left

....and i am showing you you have no verses to support that notion.

 

[Absolutely]

No that's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that these parables are an exhortation to prepare during the time of the seven year tribulation for the now obviously inevitable Second Coming.

The thing is the rapture cannot possibly be concealed the entire planet will know that it happened. Since the Bible will certainly be available to read during the time the tribulation, everyone with ears to hear the parables will in fact prepare for the SC, when the already wedded Groom arrives with His bride for judgment and the wedding supper/banquet/festivities.

Are you saying that some saints during the great tribulation and wrath are preparing for the coming on white horses?

 

[cv5]

ok,
How is he still the groom AFTER the wedding.
As far as i know there is no such thing.
It would be like calling the wife the bride after the wedding.
All that terminology needs to be changed.

Yes I definitely understand that this terminology doesn't fit with our present day. But I am sure that back when it was being presented to the Jews the terminology and setting and background was readily understood. We probably need more study on the matter to clarify things.

BTW....I'm not saying that the parables were necessarily understood I'm saying the terminology was understood.

 

[cv5]

Are you saying that some saints during the great tribulation and wrath are preparing for the coming on white horses?

Nope. I'm only speaking about tribulation Saints and Messianic Jews......who come to faith AFTER the rapture DURING the time of the tribulation.

All Christians (including those who have already died) sealed with the Holy Spirit have already departed, having been raptured for the 7 day aka 7 year honeymoon in the wedding chamber at the house of the Father.

I believe that the Bride returns with Christ at the SC, because she follows Him whithersoever He goeth.

 

[cv5]

Rapture happen immediately after tribulation so after tribulation not repent one left

Scripturally, logistically and technically impossible on many levels.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Jesus describes it as the rapture

Mat 25
"13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh."

Without a doubt it is the rapture.

Again, you are only applying your opinions, assumptions, presumptions to a verse that SAYS NOTHING about a rapture.

Again, where is the verse that SHOWS Jesus taking resurrected and raptured believers to heaven.

You know as well as I do that there is no such verse. So, "without a doubt" the Bible DOESN'T teach a pretrib rapture.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Could you point me to any verse that shows Jesus taking resurrected and raptured believers to heaven?

Excuse me, but no, they haven't. EVER. I keep asking for at least one, but I've NEVER seen any.

We should be helping One another to know the truth if we truly love God so what about these verses that Jesus spoke in John chapter 6:37-40

All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38
For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.”

Notice that Jesus says those that believe will be raised up at the last day and he says this two times in a row which means a lot. The last day is the Resurrection or what people are calling the rapture.....🙏🏼

Right. And when do you think the resurrection of all believers will occur?

 

[FreeGrace2]

Jesus is mo longer the groom and the bride has become the wife at the end of the trib ( as declared in rev 19).

Vivid...vivid...pretrib rapture picture.

"Without a doubt a very vivid imagination regarding Matt 25.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Jackson123 said:
Rapture happen immediately after tribulation so after tribulation not repent one left

....and i am showing you you have no verses to support that notion.

Yes, there are clear verses that PROVE that the resurrection and rapture occurs following the Tribulation. Without a doubt.

1 Cor 15:23 - But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

"those who belong to Him" means EVERY believer from Adam to "when He (Christ) comes". So, IF His "coming" is pretrib, then NO believer during the Trib can or will be resurrected. What a notion.

2 Thess 2:1 - Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters,

The context for "coming of our Lord Jesus" is the Second Advent, as noted in ch 1:7 - and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Scripturally, logistically and technically impossible on many levels.

Except, with God, all things are possible.

Matt 19:26 - Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

To limit God by "technicals" is atrocious. Are you not aware that He is omnipotent?

 

[cv5]

Jesus describes it as the rapture

Mat 25
"13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh."

Without a doubt it is the rapture.

As TDW has so astutely demonstrated, that particular term "cometh" always pertains to the Second Coming. It never refers to the rapture of the Church.

 

[Wansvic]

The scripture below speaks of the first resurrection taking place after the Great Tribulation:

Rev 20:1-5
And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

 

[Nehemiah6]

The scripture below speaks of the first resurrection taking place after the Great Tribulation:

This is Phase III of the first resurrection.

Phase I -- the resurrection of Christ
Phase II -- the Resurrection/Rapture of the saints
Phase III -- the resurrection of the Tribulation saints

 

[Wansvic]

This is Phase III of the first resurrection.

Phase I -- the resurrection of Christ
Phase II -- the Resurrection/Rapture of the saints
Phase III -- the resurrection of the Tribulation saints

I guess this is another instance where people believe what scripture says is not what it means.

"And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."

 

[FreeGrace2]

This is Phase III of the first resurrection.

Phase I -- the resurrection of Christ
Phase II -- the Resurrection/Rapture of the saints
Phase III -- the resurrection of the Tribulation saints

The Bible teaches only ONE resurrection of the saved. Not "phases" of resurrections.

1 Cor 15:23 - But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

Please count how many phases of resurrections you find in this verse. Same for all these verses:

 

[cv5]

Jesus describes it as the rapture

Mat 25
"13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh."

Without a doubt it is the rapture.

Here is what TDW has to say about the term "coming"....

https://christianchat.com/threads/t...at-happens-at-the-rapture.203234/post-4749280

"^ P.S. ALL "Son of man cometh / coming of / comes / shall come / etc" passages speak of His Second Coming to the earth (to judge and to reign [i.e. FOR the earthly MK age])--not to "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]"


[so in view of Luke 21:36, under discussion, see Luke 21:27's "Son of man coming"... in this same context]"

 

[cv5]

Are you saying that some saints during the great tribulation and wrath are preparing for the coming on white horses?

Here is what TDW has to say about that....

https://christianchat.com/threads/h...ular-in-the-modern-church.201091/post-4672912

"@Laura798 , I'm in no way denying that the "angels" will be AMONG those "ARMIES [PLURAL]" accompanying Him upon His "RETURN" to the earth Rev19;


I'm just pointing out that the word "ARMIES [PLURAL; G4753]" (v.14) is NEVER USED in the PLURAL when speaking of the "angels" only.
(When scripture speaks of them / the angels, it always uses this word [G4753] IN THE SINGULAR).



So... in view of this... I believe He's not being accompanied ONLY by the "angels" (alone) in this Rev19 context."