I really need some advice, please

[rainacorn]

I disagree that we agree. See, you have your concern with teens, I have the other one... after having to hide in shame from secular school mates bragging about their sexual exploits, they come in contact with their hypocritical forgive this but not that church leaders telling them when it comes right down to it that being moral is little more than a patsy game. Yes, you were supposed to save yourself for marriage and now the reward? You gotta marry one of those losers that was off having a good time and taunting you before the church declared that (while giving no actual penance) they are completely forgiven and purified and are every bit as virginal as the actual virgins. To be honest, if some 14 year old came to me today asking about abstinence, I'd have to say that given all the adversity you'll face and how in the end your church will basically just make a mockery out of you anyhow by telling you that the non-virgins are also virgins you should probably just go and have sex early and often and wait for the preacher to say "hey! you're forgiven!' Because you really will avoid a whole lot of hassles throughout your life in our present culture. (Unless of course you get a venereal disease, or pregant, or God turns out not to be as liberal on this as present christians claim he is.)

Interesting logic there, friend.

First- your preacher doesn't forgive you. God does.

Second- committing a sin because you believe it will be forgiven is kind of like asking God for permission to do it. What do you think He will say?

Third- I would truly hope you aren't giving people such horrible, ungodly advice and you're just being dramatic.

Fourth- It sounds like you feel you've missed out on life by being a Christian. That strikes me as sad since there are so many people missing out on real life by NOT being a Christian. You need to get your perspective right. What do you think 'choose life' means?

 

[Jullianna]

I disagree that we agree. See, you have your concern with teens, I have the other one... after having to hide in shame from secular school mates bragging about their sexual exploits, they come in contact with their hypocritical forgive this but not that church leaders telling them when it comes right down to it that being moral is little more than a patsy game. Yes, you were supposed to save yourself for marriage and now the reward? You gotta marry one of those losers that was off having a good time and taunting you before the church declared that (while giving no actual penance) they are completely forgiven and purified and are every bit as virginal as the actual virgins. To be honest, if some 14 year old came to me today asking about abstinence, I'd have to say that given all the adversity you'll face and how in the end your church will basically just make a mockery out of you anyhow by telling you that the non-virgins are also virgins you should probably just go and have sex early and often and wait for the preacher to say "hey! you're forgiven!' Because you really will avoid a whole lot of hassles throughout your life in our present culture. (Unless of course you get a venereal disease, or pregant, or God turns out not to be as liberal on this as present christians claim he is.)

WE don't disagree. YOU disagree. I have compassion for your situation as well. And I'll be praying that the pain I read here will be healed.

It is absolutely true that many difficulties in life can be avoided by doing things God's way. And sometimes doing things God's way is difficult as well.

 

[persecuted]

Interesting logic there, friend.

First- your preacher doesn't forgive you. God does.

Second- committing a sin because you believe it will be forgiven is kind of like asking God for permission to do it. What do you think He will say?

Third- I would truly hope you aren't giving people such horrible, ungodly advice and you're just being dramatic.

Fourth- It sounds like you feel you've missed out on life by being a Christian. That strikes me as sad since there are so many people missing out on real life by NOT being a Christian. You need to get your perspective right. What do you think 'choose life' means?

Not exactly running around saying it (except on this thread) but to be honest, I don't know if I"m being dramatic or not. I'm not convinced at all that I even WANT to be a Christian anymore. As I am coming to understand the religion the rules are to follow many many standards that are almost impossible to follow in this time period, then to apparently throw out the rules for everyone else and just accept everything , all the while being asked to feel guilt about anything and everything and to be attacked constantly by other "christians" in the most random of ways. And, oh yes, the big sin in cases like this ISN'T that someone else had sex outside of marriage, its that I might "judge" them by saying their behaviour was wrong or possibly sanction them in any way possible. Which is all starting to make me reailze that apparently reading the bible will just get me to hell (because now I know better and have a standard to follow) where as if I spent my life at the nudey bar scoring strippers and stayed away from religion, I'd be a prime candidate for redemption. It must be wrong to take your kids to church or give them bibles...because apparently if they don't know any better their chances are better anyways. Although I'm not sure on this one because it does seem to me that people who claim to have come to Jesus later in life also were well aware of base morality and also that their conduct may have constituted sinful behaviour even if they claimed they didn't know better at the time.

lol... I wonder if anyone reading this is angry or surprised to hear this sentiment when I'm convinced its why modern day church numbers are steadily declining. Hhhmmmm... I can spend my time telling other sinners "its all okay" or go live the fun life myself. Which shall it be??? HEY, ANY HOT LADIES ON HERE UP FOR A ONE NIGHT STAND?????

 

[Jullianna]

You are right, persecuted, "religion" is about rules, and if that's all you have, it can be very empty and frustrating. A relationship with Jesus Christ is about loving submission and obedience.

John 14:15 “If you love Me, you will keep My commandments."

The "rules" that have been set out were never intended to be a burden. They were intended to protect us and others from ourselves and others. They were intended as love.

Some are weaker than others. Some fail more often than others. And they reap the scars of those failings even though they are forgiven. It's important that we not compare our lives to the lives of other PEOPLE, but to CHRIST ALONE. HE alone is our standard. When we take our eyes off of that, it's very easy to wanna blow up the balloons and have a pity party because they don't have to do what we have to do, they haven't suffered like we've suffered, but if we are loving as we are called to, should we desire that they suffer as we have? or that they suffer at all?

Reading Romans 14 might be helpful to you. Not sure. You are apparently in a great deal of pain right now and are struggling. Know that some of us really DO care and really WILL be praying for you. We all get discouraged from time to time. I wondered about this the first time I saw your chat name. Thank you for opening up about this. It's the beginning of healing you know.

 

[rainacorn]

Not exactly running around saying it (except on this thread) but to be honest, I don't know if I"m being dramatic or not. I'm not convinced at all that I even WANT to be a Christian anymore. As I am coming to understand the religion the rules are to follow many many standards that are almost impossible to follow in this time period, then to apparently throw out the rules for everyone else and just accept everything , all the while being asked to feel guilt about anything and everything and to be attacked constantly by other "christians" in the most random of ways. And, oh yes, the big sin in cases like this ISN'T that someone else had sex outside of marriage, its that I might "judge" them by saying their behaviour was wrong or possibly sanction them in any way possible. Which is all starting to make me reailze that apparently reading the bible will just get me to hell (because now I know better and have a standard to follow) where as if I spent my life at the nudey bar scoring strippers and stayed away from religion, I'd be a prime candidate for redemption. It must be wrong to take your kids to church or give them bibles...because apparently if they don't know any better their chances are better anyways. Although I'm not sure on this one because it does seem to me that people who claim to have come to Jesus later in life also were well aware of base morality and also that their conduct may have constituted sinful behaviour even if they claimed they didn't know better at the time.

lol... I wonder if anyone reading this is angry or surprised to hear this sentiment when I'm convinced its why modern day church numbers are steadily declining. Hhhmmmm... I can spend my time telling other sinners "its all okay" or go live the fun life myself. Which shall it be??? HEY, ANY HOT LADIES ON HERE UP FOR A ONE NIGHT STAND?????

Ridiculous.

Everyone is a sinner, even believers. Everyone needs redemption.

You can 'stop being a Christian' if you want to, but if you think pretending Hell doesn't exist will actually stop it from existing, you're delusional.

Your logic makes absolutely no sense. It sounds like the devil is tugging at your ear, telling you life would be more fun and fulfilling without God. I think if you're even able to entertain that idea the way you are, you're already gone. I hope I'm wrong.

If you have less that needs forgiving than someone else, you should be THANKFUL, not jealous.

I totally agree with you that this is why church membership is declining- people don't know what they're talking about and don't bother to read the Bible.

 

[Jullianna]

The Parable of the Workers in the Vineyard

For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire men to work in the vineyard. He agreed to pay them a denarius for the day and sent them into his vineyard.
About the third hour he went out and saw others standing in the marketplace doing nothing. He told them, "You also go and work in my vineyard, and I will pay you whatever is right." So they went.
He went out again about the sixth hour and the ninth hour and did the same thing. About the eleventh hour he went out and found still others standing around. He asked them, "Why have you been standing here all day long doing nothing?"
"Because no one has hired us," they answered.
He said to them, "You also go and work in my vineyard."
When evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, "Call the workers and pay them their wages, beginning with the last ones hired and going on to the first."
The workers who were hired about the eleventh hour came and each received a denarius. So when those came who were hired first, they expected to receive more. But each one of them also received a denarius. When they received it, they began to grumble against the landowner.
"These men who were hired last worked only one hour," they said, "and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the work and the heat of the day."
But he answered one of them, "Friend, I am not being unfair to you. Didn't you agree to work for a denarius? Take your pay and go. I want to give the man who was hired last the same as I gave you. Don't I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?"
So the last will be first, and the first will be last. -- Matthew 20:1-16

I’m wondering if this parable applies in this situation. Some people think it’s unfair that those who give their lives to Christ on their deathbeds get to become children of God just as those of us who’ve walked with Him (and suffered for His name) for most of our lives. Some think it’s unfair that those who’ve failed so terribly in their lives should be given a second chance. The truth is that we ALL deserve death no matter how long we’ve followed the Lord. He shows mercy to whomever He chooses. If we are truly abiding in Him, it should be the desire of our hearts to see ALL WHO WILL come to Him no matter where they’ve been. Sometimes that’s easier said than done, but it should be our goal nonetheless, as it is our commission.
A person who has been lost in sexual sin bears the scars of that even when they have been forgiven. Some suffer from horrible diseases. Some are raising children born from those relationships, hopefully in a godly way. Some feel shame to the point that they feel they will never have a healthy relationship with anyone. We should not rejoice in their suffering, but have compassion.
I would also hope that any of those who have been forgiven from such a past would repent of any unkind behavior they might have shown toward a christian brother or sister who was trying to follow the teachings of Christ in maintaining their chastity. But, even if they don’t, our rewards do not come from men, but from God. HE is watching. HE saw it all. HE understands. HE’s been there.

(hadn't intended to write a book )

 

[persecuted]

The Parable of the Workers in the Vineyard

For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire men to work in the vineyard. He agreed to pay them a denarius for the day and sent them into his vineyard.
About the third hour he went out and saw others standing in the marketplace doing nothing. He told them, "You also go and work in my vineyard, and I will pay you whatever is right." So they went.
He went out again about the sixth hour and the ninth hour and did the same thing. About the eleventh hour he went out and found still others standing around. He asked them, "Why have you been standing here all day long doing nothing?"
"Because no one has hired us," they answered.
He said to them, "You also go and work in my vineyard."
When evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, "Call the workers and pay them their wages, beginning with the last ones hired and going on to the first."
The workers who were hired about the eleventh hour came and each received a denarius. So when those came who were hired first, they expected to receive more. But each one of them also received a denarius. When they received it, they began to grumble against the landowner.
"These men who were hired last worked only one hour," they said, "and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the work and the heat of the day."
But he answered one of them, "Friend, I am not being unfair to you. Didn't you agree to work for a denarius? Take your pay and go. I want to give the man who was hired last the same as I gave you. Don't I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?"
So the last will be first, and the first will be last. -- Matthew 20:1-16

I’m wondering if this parable applies in this situation. Some people think it’s unfair that those who give their lives to Christ on their deathbeds get to become children of God just as those of us who’ve walked with Him (and suffered for His name) for most of our lives. Some think it’s unfair that those who’ve failed so terribly in their lives should be given a second chance. The truth is that we ALL deserve death no matter how long we’ve followed the Lord. He shows mercy to whomever He chooses. If we are truly abiding in Him, it should be the desire of our hearts to see ALL WHO WILL come to Him no matter where they’ve been. Sometimes that’s easier said than done, but it should be our goal nonetheless, as it is our commission.
A person who has been lost in sexual sin bears the scars of that even when they have been forgiven. Some suffer from horrible diseases. Some are raising children born from those relationships, hopefully in a godly way. Some feel shame to the point that they feel they will never have a healthy relationship with anyone. We should not rejoice in their suffering, but have compassion.
I would also hope that any of those who have been forgiven from such a past would repent of any unkind behavior they might have shown toward a christian brother or sister who was trying to follow the teachings of Christ in maintaining their chastity. But, even if they don’t, our rewards do not come from men, but from God. HE is watching. HE saw it all. HE understands. HE’s been there.

(hadn't intended to write a book )

I've been thinking about this parable the WHOLE time of this conversation and think it DOES actually break down. To me, being told to save myself for marriage implies that I will in fact be rewarded with a virgin bride when I decide to get married. So no virgin bride, no TRUE payment. Its like paying $100,000 for that super rare 1743 Spanish gold coin lost at the bottom of the ocean and instead the seller delivers a 1997 American quarter and tell you you should be happy you were just given a coin. Now that I read this parable, I am genuinely believing for the first time in my life that God himself is trying to rip me off. As far as someone getting into heaven, you're right, that someone else gets the same payment at a later date doesn't change my own rewards or contractual agreement... but, yeah, giving me the lower grade on the woman thing, not happy! And being told its MY sin for not being happy about the lower grade. Wow. This has gotta be the lowest level auction I ever went to. Sure this isn't being run by GoldmanSachs???

 

[Suzie2family]

I disagree that we agree. See, you have your concern with teens, I have the other one... after having to hide in shame from secular school mates bragging about their sexual exploits, they come in contact with their hypocritical forgive this but not that church leaders telling them when it comes right down to it that being moral is little more than a patsy game. Yes, you were supposed to save yourself for marriage and now the reward? You gotta marry one of those losers that was off having a good time and taunting you before the church declared that (while giving no actual penance) they are completely forgiven and purified and are every bit as virginal as the actual virgins. To be honest, if some 14 year old came to me today asking about abstinence, I'd have to say that given all the adversity you'll face and how in the end your church will basically just make a mockery out of you anyhow by telling you that the non-virgins are also virgins you should probably just go and have sex early and often and wait for the preacher to say "hey! you're forgiven!' Because you really will avoid a whole lot of hassles throughout your life in our present culture. (Unless of course you get a venereal disease, or pregant, or God turns out not to be as liberal on this as present christians claim he is.)

From this comment, it sounds to me as if you feel somewhat like the older brother in the story of the Prodigal Son. The older brother was angry that the younger brother went out and lived a wasteful life, flaunting his sin but came back to find the father had 100% forgiven him nonetheless. The older brother was indignant but the father's response was something to the effect that " But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’”

 

[Jullianna]

persecuted, I don't find any scriptures indicating that the reward for chastity is a virgin bride or groom. However, why are you assuming that you won't have one? Read back through these single threads..the young adults threads..the teen threads (and even in the ladies thread that is unavailable to men). You'll see that there are many young christian women who have saved themselves just as you have. They ARE out there. If that's what you want, why are you sitting here typing to ME? Go for it!

Surely you have not reduced your relationship with Christ to the point of being a business transaction wherein you are entitled to more of a reward than becoming a redeemed child of God. Is that what you mean here??? Or are you speaking of the rewards that laid up for us in the Kingdom that we have yet to see? If so, what makes you think they aren't there??

Or is it that you simply have anger that you have yet to release and are looking for a channel for it? He can heal that too. In the meantime, I don't mind if you wanna take it out on me. Let it out! And I'm not being sarcastic when I say that. I'm serious. I'll prayerfully hang in here with you for as long as you need, brother.

 

[persecuted]

From this comment, it sounds to me as if you feel somewhat like the older brother in the story of the Prodigal Son. The older brother was angry that the younger brother went out and lived a wasteful life, flaunting his sin but came back to find the father had 100% forgiven him nonetheless. The older brother was indignant but the father's response was something to the effect that " But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’”

I'm not going to say that one doesn't apply to me, but I wonder if you had the same thought I had when you read it. That when you start putting logic to it, it does make you think that if the good son sat down and thought about it for awhile, he might just say, I am going to be a super badass myself and then get doubly rewarded for it like my brother did. Like I know this story is supposed to say not to be angry at other people's sins being forgiven but any theologist is gonna look at it and note that it does kinda suggest that bad behaviour will actually be REWARDED... because isn't this the story where the wayward son gets a whole blown party for himself whereas the other son its just same old for him? Think so.

 

[Suzie2family]

The Prodigal Son did NOT have a license to sin, just as none of those who have led a promiscuous life, etc.

Paul said, "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? ... What should we say, then? Should we go on sinning so that grace may increase? ..." Rom 6:1

We have no license to sin--ever. Grace can abound through repentence--not wallowing or basking in sin. The main thing is, the prodigal son came home.

I do agree with you that it seems unfair that God can extend His blessings to people who have not even tried to be faithful, when some people have always tried to do the right thing from the start. But God doesn't really look at MY righteousness when it comes to his blessings. (Because despite however righteous I thought I was, that didn't save me.) Still, I am seeking His commendation at the end of my life when He says to me, "Well done, good and faithful servant...enter into your Father's rest."

 

[Suzie2family]

Not exactly running around saying it (except on this thread) but to be honest, I don't know if I"m being dramatic or not. I'm not convinced at all that I even WANT to be a Christian anymore. As I am coming to understand the religion the rules are to follow many many standards that are almost impossible to follow in this time period, then to apparently throw out the rules for everyone else and just accept everything , all the while being asked to feel guilt about anything and everything and to be attacked constantly by other "christians" in the most random of ways. And, oh yes, the big sin in cases like this ISN'T that someone else had sex outside of marriage, its that I might "judge" them by saying their behaviour was wrong or possibly sanction them in any way possible. Which is all starting to make me reailze that apparently reading the bible will just get me to hell (because now I know better and have a standard to follow) where as if I spent my life at the nudey bar scoring strippers and stayed away from religion, I'd be a prime candidate for redemption. It must be wrong to take your kids to church or give them bibles...because apparently if they don't know any better their chances are better anyways. Although I'm not sure on this one because it does seem to me that people who claim to have come to Jesus later in life also were well aware of base morality and also that their conduct may have constituted sinful behaviour even if they claimed they didn't know better at the time.

lol... I wonder if anyone reading this is angry or surprised to hear this sentiment when I'm convinced its why modern day church numbers are steadily declining. Hhhmmmm... I can spend my time telling other sinners "its all okay" or go live the fun life myself. Which shall it be??? HEY, ANY HOT LADIES ON HERE UP FOR A ONE NIGHT STAND?????

I would only have this to say in response: God allows us each a free will and if we choose an empty, shallow, wasted life we will experience many sorrows and regrets that might have been avoided if we had followed his original intention. People who have "fallen from grace" and returned to God later in life will always have to live with the regrets and the consequences of their choices. God does forgive the past but he doesn't always take away the consequences of our sin.

 

[Jullianna]

I'm not going to say that one doesn't apply to me, but I wonder if you had the same thought I had when you read it. That when you start putting logic to it, it does make you think that if the good son sat down and thought about it for awhile, he might just say, I am going to be a super badass myself and then get doubly rewarded for it like my brother did. Like I know this story is supposed to say not to be angry at other people's sins being forgiven but any theologist is gonna look at it and note that it does kinda suggest that bad behaviour will actually be REWARDED... because isn't this the story where the wayward son gets a whole blown party for himself whereas the other son its just same old for him? Think so.

THAT older brother might say that if he were looking at it from a human point of view with earthly eyes.

What happens when we look at it from a:

""The Son of God became human, slept in the dirt (was that fair?), remained a virgin, never married (was that fair?), never had children (was that fair?), was beaten (was that fair?), was spat upon (was that fair?), and killed (was that fair?), so that He could lovingly redeem whosoever would come to Him as sons of daughters God. "

point of view? Did our Big Brother get a "fair" deal??????

I don't think Jesus, as the first born of the Father, is up there whining about His mistreatment to the Father and complaining that we are going to be redeemed because of HIS work and not our own.

I wasn't promised a happily ever after in this life just because I became a christian.

 

[Liamson]

I've been thinking about this parable the WHOLE time of this conversation and think it DOES actually break down. To me, being told to save myself for marriage implies that I will in fact be rewarded with a virgin bride when I decide to get married. So no virgin bride, no TRUE payment. Its like paying $100,000 for that super rare 1743 Spanish gold coin lost at the bottom of the ocean and instead the seller delivers a 1997 American quarter and tell you you should be happy you were just given a coin. Now that I read this parable, I am genuinely believing for the first time in my life that God himself is trying to rip me off. As far as someone getting into heaven, you're right, that someone else gets the same payment at a later date doesn't change my own rewards or contractual agreement... but, yeah, giving me the lower grade on the woman thing, not happy! And being told its MY sin for not being happy about the lower grade. Wow. This has gotta be the lowest level auction I ever went to. Sure this isn't being run by GoldmanSachs???

Your concept of fairness especially as it applies to God is utterly mistaken. Regardless of all of the things you could possibly do, you do not "Deserve" anything. God is not a Law of Nature or a mathematical formula for achieving success. You cannot Drop Z, Add Y and receive X.

You must be completely unfamiliar with the Parable of the Workers in the Vineyard. Matthew 20:1-16:


1 “For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire workers for his vineyard. 2 He agreed to pay them a denarius[a] for the day and sent them into his vineyard.
3 “About nine in the morning he went out and saw others standing in the marketplace doing nothing. 4 He told them, ‘You also go and work in my vineyard, and I will pay you whatever is right.’ 5 So they went.

“He went out again about noon and about three in the afternoon and did the same thing. 6 About five in the afternoon he went out and found still others standing around. He asked them, ‘Why have you been standing here all day long doing nothing?’

7 “‘Because no one has hired us,’ they answered.

“He said to them, ‘You also go and work in my vineyard.’

8 “When evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, ‘Call the workers and pay them their wages, beginning with the last ones hired and going on to the first.’

9 “The workers who were hired about five in the afternoon came and each received a denarius. 10 So when those came who were hired first, they expected to receive more. But each one of them also received a denarius. 11 When they received it, they began to grumble against the landowner. 12 ‘These who were hired last worked only one hour,’ they said, ‘and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the work and the heat of the day.’

13 “But he answered one of them, ‘I am not being unfair to you, friend. Didn’t you agree to work for a denarius? 14 Take your pay and go. I want to give the one who was hired last the same as I gave you. 15 Don’t I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?’

16 “So the last will be first, and the first will be last.”

– Matthew 20:1–16



Grace is unmerited.

I'm not going to say that one doesn't apply to me, but I wonder if you had the same thought I had when you read it. That when you start putting logic to it, it does make you think that if the good son sat down and thought about it for awhile, he might just say, I am going to be a super badass myself and then get doubly rewarded for it like my brother did. Like I know this story is supposed to say not to be angry at other people's sins being forgiven but any theologist is gonna look at it and note that it does kinda suggest that bad behaviour will actually be REWARDED... because isn't this the story where the wayward son gets a whole blown party for himself whereas the other son its just same old for him? Think so.

Do not be spiteful because someone has received something that they did not deserve. That is the way the world works. Illogical perhaps but, very Reasonable.

 

[persecuted]

Okay, you're right, its wrong for me to make snide remarks about the bible, but something I maintain is true. I can go off and read the bible and live my life and mostly not come across the annoyances that I am now declaring... but when I come across other alleged Christians it always inevitably flares up. I just think I see too much hypocrasy from people. Mostly it comes down to the concept of putting together 1. that I'm not supposed to be sinful and 2. I'm not supposed to judge others for their sins because whatever I may think, I'm apparently a rotten sinner too. But then 3. I find christians are very selective of how they put 1 and 2 together. Which makes me wonder often why my alleged sins are worthy of being lectured while apparently other people's sins are worthy of being completely forgiven and I must be the one who gets the lecture AGAIN for not forgiving everything. In fact, I'm not so sure this isn't happening right now on this thread!!! I've hung out with christian groups who were very liberal about sex. there was no repentance. they just said, sins are all forgiven, done deal, and then it continues... because there really is and never was any repentance. after awhile it becomes a very tired game.

 

[Jullianna]

I can't tell whether you are intentionally misunderstanding or not, so I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt.

Sin is sin. Sin is bad. For everyone. We must speak against it. But once my/your/any other christian's sins are forgiven by the Lord, we, who did not suffer and die for them, have no right to bring them back up. And even though sin is forgiven, there can still be consequences. The murderer still goes to jail. The unwed teen will still have a child to raise. The promiscuous will still feel shame at times, if not everyday. I don't want to add to their pain. I don't see any way that would be pleasing to the Lord. That's all. I don't want to add to yours either.

I do wish you well. Truly. You might want to consider taking your focus off of what is fair/unfair (it only causes bitterness and hardening of the heart) and move toward your goal of marrying a chaste, godly woman. Sometimes the only thing standing between us and our goal...is us. God bless!

 

[Suzie2family]

Okay, you're right, its wrong for me to make snide remarks about the bible, but something I maintain is true. I can go off and read the bible and live my life and mostly not come across the annoyances that I am now declaring... but when I come across other alleged Christians it always inevitably flares up. I just think I see too much hypocrasy from people. Mostly it comes down to the concept of putting together 1. that I'm not supposed to be sinful and 2. I'm not supposed to judge others for their sins because whatever I may think, I'm apparently a rotten sinner too. But then 3. I find christians are very selective of how they put 1 and 2 together. Which makes me wonder often why my alleged sins are worthy of being lectured while apparently other people's sins are worthy of being completely forgiven and I must be the one who gets the lecture AGAIN for not forgiving everything. In fact, I'm not so sure this isn't happening right now on this thread!!! I've hung out with christian groups who were very liberal about sex. there was no repentance. they just said, sins are all forgiven, done deal, and then it continues... because there really is and never was any repentance. after awhile it becomes a very tired game.

Any christians you have come across who were selective about some sins and pointed their fingers at you for others are being judgmental and they are indeed hypocrites. No one has a right to lecture anyone else about sins they perceive in another person's life. Romans 14:4 says, "Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand." God is the judge, not me. It is unfortunate and sad that there are some people out there who misrepresent God that way and misrepresent his grace. Perhaps they were not taught correctly or perhaps they have been deliberately selective about which scriptures they choose to apply to themselves, but either way it still comes across as hypocracy.

 

[persecuted]

I can't tell whether you are intentionally misunderstanding or not, so I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt.

Sin is sin. Sin is bad. For everyone. We must speak against it. But once my/your/any other christian's sins are forgiven by the Lord, we, who did not suffer and die for them, have no right to bring them back up. And even though sin is forgiven, there can still be consequences. The murderer still goes to jail. The unwed teen will still have a child to raise. The promiscuous will still feel shame at times, if not everyday. I don't want to add to their pain. I don't see any way that would be pleasing to the Lord. That's all. I don't want to add to yours either.

I do wish you well. Truly. You might want to consider taking your focus off of what is fair/unfair (it only causes bitterness and hardening of the heart) and move toward your goal of marrying a chaste, godly woman. Sometimes the only thing standing between us and our goal...is us. God bless!

Sorry, but I really feel like your arguments are along the lines of saying that the murderer SHOULDN'T go to jail. As I said way back now, the girl's past was going to cost her her chance of being my wife, not being condemned to hell. That this might happen to somebody is a natural consequence they should consider. Its not my responsibility to lower my standards so somebody doesn't feel judged. I also have a standard saying I won't be allowing any convicted felons to live in my home after their sentences are done. Guess you can call me judgmental for that too but, well, too bad, its not going to happen.

Any christians you have come across who were selective about some sins and pointed their fingers at you for others are being judgmental and they are indeed hypocrites. No one has a right to lecture anyone else about sins they perceive in another person's life. Romans 14:4 says, "Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand." God is the judge, not me. It is unfortunate and sad that there are some people out there who misrepresent God that way and misrepresent his grace. Perhaps they were not taught correctly or perhaps they have been deliberately selective about which scriptures they choose to apply to themselves, but either way it still comes across as hypocracy.

Thanks for this one. You put it so well. In addition to the hypocracy, I don't even know why this type of Christian is forever prodding me anyhow. I'm not God, I'm not in a position to redeem people, I don't have the authority to make people pure or have power to save the world so why people are forever coming to me for sin forgiving and redemption I don't understand.

 

[Jullianna]

Sorry, but I really feel like your arguments are along the lines of saying that the murderer SHOULDN'T go to jail. As I said way back now, the girl's past was going to cost her her chance of being my wife, not being condemned to hell. That this might happen to somebody is a natural consequence they should consider. Its not my responsibility to lower my standards so somebody doesn't feel judged. I also have a standard saying I won't be allowing any convicted felons to live in my home after their sentences are done. Guess you can call me judgmental for that too but, well, too bad, its not going to happen.
quote]

If that's what you thought I was saying, no wonder you thought we had a misunderstanding. I'm an ex-cop. You do the crime, you do the time. That's the law. But God, while just and righteous, is also a God of mercy, grace and compassion. If that weren't the case, even though I was a virgin when I married, I'd be bound for Hell, and all of the other virgins right behind me, because we've committed other sins. Hope that clears it up for ya!

 

[rainacorn]

I think I get what you're saying.

Everyone is entitled to their own prejudices. I don't think there's anything wrong with a virgin-only policy.

If that's how you interpret being equally yoked, that's your own business.