Galatians Discussion

[Nehemiah6]

A big portion of scripture is given to tell us law. Do not take away from that scripture by limiting its use.

There are four entire books of the Bible devoted to the Law of Moses -- Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers. and Deuteronomy. That is a major portion of the Torah. But what we read in the New Testament is what is necessary for us:

For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. (John 1:17)

This is critical revelation for every Christian. So what is it telling us?
1. The Law (as written in the Torah) was given by God through Moses.
2. The Law would not be effective for ever.
3. Jesus Christ would fulfil the Law in Himself.
4. Jesus Christ would put an end to the Law (which He did).
5. The grace of God and the truth of God would be offered to all humanity through Christ.

Did Moses himself agree with God? Absolutely. When he came to Jesus along with Elijah at the Transfiguration he was agreeing with God, that it is Christ Himself who must be the focus of our attention, not Moses. But only unbelieving Jews focus on Moses and reject Christ. Genuine Christians focus on Christ, not on Moses.

 

[Onesimus63]

4. Jesus Christ would put an end to the Law (which He did).
.

Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness for everyone who believeth Romans10:4

 

[justbyfaith]

The law is written on the hearts and minds of New Covenant believers.

The only reason I can see for your rejecting this statement, is that you are not reading the scriptures that I am referencing.

So, I think that I should lay them out for you.

Heb 8:8, For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Heb 8:9, Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb 8:10, For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Heb 10:16, This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

Rom 8:7, Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

inversely,

Rom 8:7, For the spiritual mind is at peace with God; for it is subject to the law of God and cannot be otherwise.

Rom 8:4, That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

1Jo 5:3, For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

2Jo 1:6, And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

Rom 13:8, Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Rom 13:9, For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Rom 13:10, Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Rom 5:5, And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

1Jo 2:3, And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jo 2:4, He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Jo 2:5, But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
1Jo 2:6, He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

 

[justbyfaith]

He already has, though I have done nothing to deserve it, and I trust in a righteousness that is not my own, that one day He will receive me as a son <fify> and I will dwell with him in the New Jerusalem <fify>, all because of His unfailing love for those who could never earn or deserve His blessings. And the expression of God's unfailing love under the new covenant is Christ dying for us at Calvary

Then I suppose that you do not need my blessing.

Nevertheless you have it; for in obedience to holy scripture I bless those who revile me (1 Corinthians 4:12).

But I would point out to you that He scourges every son whom he receives (Hebrews 12:6).

 

[Onesimus63]

Then I suppose that you do not need my blessing.

Nevertheless you have it; for in obedience to holy scripture I bless those who revile me (1 Corinthians 4:12).

But I would point out to you that He scourges every son whom he receives (Hebrews 12:6).

I simply told the truth, and as two of us agree concerning that, I would have thought, in humility a person would consider and ponder on what has been stated

 

[Blik]

The law was given not to help you. But to bring you to your knees
the mere fact you keep looking at the law and are not on your knees begging God for his mercy is just part of the problem and proof you do not understand the law


The law which says do not commit murder. just says that.

IT CAN NOT HELP YOU IN YOUR DAILY WALK

It does not tell you what to do so you do not break it. It just tells you not to break it. thus it condemns you if you do.

Paul goes on and on and on about following the earthly type commands that Moses gave as a futile means of obeying the law, and gullible man has said Paul means that it is right to live in rebellion to ALL that God tells us. If that was so, if God is telling us to rebel against all the Christ directs us then God would be speaking against God.

If God is in opposition to what God tells us, then we have no religion to follow, we can choose the scriptures that please us to follow and ignore the rest. Religion is only, then, like idols. We can make our own and even quote scripture to prove it.

Either you choose Galatians as scripture or the gospels as scripture. One then, says obey and the other says don't obey.

There is another possibility. God may be right and your interpretation wrong.

 

[Onesimus63]

Then I suppose that you do not need my blessing.

Nevertheless you have it; for in obedience to holy scripture I bless those who revile me (1 Corinthians 4:12).

But I would point out to you that He scourges every son whom he receives (Hebrews 12:6).

Post 380:



'''Realizing that you are in a saved state even if you blow it is one of the primary doctrines that will set you free from the power of sin so that you might walk in freedom and victory over sin and begin to walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit so that the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in you (Romans 8:4).

It is realizing that, as concerning condemnation, you are not under the law (Romans 6:14), are dead to the law (Romans 7:4, Galatians 2:19) and are delivered from the law (Romans 7:6); and that this means that,

as concerning obedience, you are under the law to Christ (1 Corinthians 9:21); that is,

the law is written on your heart and in your mind (Hebrews 8:8-10, Hebrews 10:16, Romans 8:7, Romans 8:4, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 13:8-10; Romans 5:5; 1 John 2:3-6).

This means that if you blow it you are forgiven even in the midst of blowing it (Romans 4:5-8);

But that because you love the Lord (Romans 5:5) you are becoming less and less inclined to blow it as time passes.

Because you have an unshakable identity in Christ...that you are righteous...even when you blow it (Romans 4:5).

So, the exhortation is, that now that you have this identity, GO AND LIVE LIKE IT (1 John 3:7, Romans 5:19, Matthew 5:6).

47 Wherefore I say unto thee, her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little. 48 And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven.'''



Well that’s plain. A born again believer(there are no other kind) is in a saved state when they blow it/commit sin obviously

If you blow it you are forgiven in the midst of blowing it

Because you are in Christ(obviously born again) you are still righteous when you blow it





Post 241



'''The law defines sin for us (1 John 3:4, Romans 3:20).

Therefore, if we violate the law, we are sinning; whether we are in Christ or out of Christ.

If you are breaker of the law therefore, you are a sinner.

Do I need to point out that according to scripture, those who are born again are not sinners in the sense of being those who commit sin (1 John 3:5-9)?

While we are sinners in the sense that we all have indwelling sin (1 John 1:8, 1 Timothy 1:15, Romans 7:18).'''

Perhaps you would like to explain how someone can blow it, but remain righteous before God. They must be born again to remain righteous before God when they blow it. But then you state those who are born again are not sinners in the sense of being those who commit sin.

Post 243





‘’’Nevertheless I would say that the love of the Lord is shed abroad in the heart of every believer; and therefore if anyone is genuinely born again, he will keep the ten (Romans 13:8-10, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6; Romans 8:4).’’’

You have told me you cannot say you have perfectly obeyed the letter of ‘’Thou shalt not’’ Does this mean you are not born again according to your statement?

 

[Blik]

There are four entire books of the Bible devoted to the Law of Moses -- Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers. and Deuteronomy. That is a major portion of the Torah. But what we read in the New Testament is what is necessary for us:

For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. (John 1:17)

This is critical revelation for every Christian. So what is it telling us?
1. The Law (as written in the Torah) was given by God through Moses.
2. The Law would not be effective for ever.
3. Jesus Christ would fulfil the Law in Himself.
4. Jesus Christ would put an end to the Law (which He did).
5. The grace of God and the truth of God would be offered to all humanity through Christ.

Did Moses himself agree with God? Absolutely. When he came to Jesus along with Elijah at the Transfiguration he was agreeing with God, that it is Christ Himself who must be the focus of our attention, not Moses. But only unbelieving Jews focus on Moses and reject Christ. Genuine Christians focus on Christ, not on Moses.

You are telling about God by telling us of the law as given to Moses, law that included commands to practice fleshly commands to guide them to the true law--God is spirit and the true law is spirit of the law. That law was given in ways man of that age could understand, through the flesh. Christ came and gave that law through the heart, giving the same law in true form, heart to heart.

Unless you study what Christ said about the difference, (Matthew 5) you are missing the whole point of what God is teaching you in scripture.

The true law is not and never was the law in stone given to us through Moses. It is an basic fact. The true law contains the law in stone, it was of God and truth, but incomplete. Christ fulfilled the law.

 

[Onesimus63]

You won't find the words ''ten commandmets'' written in any letter by any of the Apostles in the NT. The closest you come to it, is when Paul, writing to born again believers states the ministry of death and condemnation, the letter that kills was engraved in stone(ten commandments) I have to ask myself, if it was not important enough for any of the Apostles to mention the words 'ten commandments' even once when spreading the message of the new covenant to believers in scripture, why are so many today relentlessly stating 'Ten Commandments'. Yes, individual commands within that law are mentioned, but never that phrase.
To suggest the Ten Commandments are the law of liberty is frankly, ridiculous. The reason Paul kept stressing you can have no righteousness of obeying the law was because of the Ten Commandments. Those commands are the perfect, holy and righteous law of God, but they have no power to make you holy. Perfectly obey the commands the bible states are the letter that kills, the ministry of death and condemnation or stand guilty before them.
Some profess a life of a righteousness of faith in Christ, we are not under law they say. However, the yardstick to gauge if you are indeed a born again believer according to them is the ''ten commandments'' It reminds me of Jesus words:
Many after drinking the old wine don't want the new, for they say: 'the old is better'
No one obeys the letter of the Ten Commandments, even those who insist it is a gauge as to whether you are truly born again.

 

[Onesimus63]

If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, “Love your neighbor as yourself,”[a] you are doing right. 9 But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as lawbreakers. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. 11 For he who said, “You shall not commit adultery,”[b] also said, “You shall not murder.”[c] If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker. James2:9-11

So what is the law of liberty? The TC? Stumble at just one point concerning the ten commandments and therefore you are guilty of breaking the entire law? The letter of which law kills, and is the ministry of death and condemnation. Is that the law of liberty? Really?
I think its more likely to be the royal law. Love your neighbour as yourself'
And as Paul stated:
Carry each others burdens(love them) and so fulfill the law of Christ Gal6:2

 

[justbyfaith]

I simply told the truth, and as two of us agree concerning that, I would have thought, in humility a person would consider and ponder on what has been stated

I simply do not talk out of both sides of my mouth...both of you are wrong for holding that opinion...it is not the truth but rather is a lie from the pit. Ananias and Saphira agreed on the price of the land; but both of them were wrong.

 

[justbyfaith]

Post 380:



'''Realizing that you are in a saved state even if you blow it is one of the primary doctrines that will set you free from the power of sin so that you might walk in freedom and victory over sin and begin to walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit so that the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in you (Romans 8:4).

It is realizing that, as concerning condemnation, you are not under the law (Romans 6:14), are dead to the law (Romans 7:4, Galatians 2:19) and are delivered from the law (Romans 7:6); and that this means that,

as concerning obedience, you are under the law to Christ (1 Corinthians 9:21); that is,

the law is written on your heart and in your mind (Hebrews 8:8-10, Hebrews 10:16, Romans 8:7, Romans 8:4, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 13:8-10; Romans 5:5; 1 John 2:3-6).

This means that if you blow it you are forgiven even in the midst of blowing it (Romans 4:5-8);

But that because you love the Lord (Romans 5:5) you are becoming less and less inclined to blow it as time passes.

Because you have an unshakable identity in Christ...that you are righteous...even when you blow it (Romans 4:5).

So, the exhortation is, that now that you have this identity, GO AND LIVE LIKE IT (1 John 3:7, Romans 5:19, Matthew 5:6).

47 Wherefore I say unto thee, her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little. 48 And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven.'''



Well that’s plain. A born again believer(there are no other kind) is in a saved state when they blow it/commit sin obviously

If you blow it you are forgiven in the midst of blowing it

Because you are in Christ(obviously born again) you are still righteous when you blow it

Now go and live like your identity, is the exhortation from there.

Post 241



'''The law defines sin for us (1 John 3:4, Romans 3:20).

Therefore, if we violate the law, we are sinning; whether we are in Christ or out of Christ.

If you are breaker of the law therefore, you are a sinner.

Do I need to point out that according to scripture, those who are born again are not sinners in the sense of being those who commit sin (1 John 3:5-9)?

While we are sinners in the sense that we all have indwelling sin (1 John 1:8, 1 Timothy 1:15, Romans 7:18).'''

Perhaps you would like to explain how someone can blow it, but remain righteous before God. They must be born again to remain righteous before God when they blow it. But then you state those who are born again are not sinners in the sense of being those who commit sin.

There are those who are justified who are not born again / wholly sanctified.

Post 243





‘’’Nevertheless I would say that the love of the Lord is shed abroad in the heart of every believer; and therefore if anyone is genuinely born again, he will keep the ten (Romans 13:8-10, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6; Romans 8:4).’’’

You have told me you cannot say you have perfectly obeyed the letter of ‘’Thou shalt not’’ Does this mean you are not born again according to your statement?

If I said that I had perfectly kept the ten (as concerning my past), would I not be in violation when it comes to Romans 3:23, 1 John 1:10?

But I can say that I am not obligated to obey the flesh (Romans 8:12 (kjv, NLT)), and that therefore I can walk consistently not after the flesh but after the Spirit; and that as long as I do so, the righteousness of the law will be fulfilled in me (Romans 8:4).

I believe that I can do this consistently for an extended period of time; even for the rest of my life (Luke 1:74-75).

 

[Onesimus63]

Now go and live like your identity, is the exhortation from there.




There are those who are justified who are not born again / wholly sanctified.




If I said that I had perfectly kept the ten (as concerning my past), would I not be in violation when it comes to Romans 3:23, 1 John 1:10?

But I can say that I am not obligated to obey the flesh (Romans 8:12 (kjv, NLT)), and that therefore I can walk consistently not after the flesh but after the Spirit; and that as long as I do so, the righteousness of the law will be fulfilled in me (Romans 8:4).

I believe that I can do this consistently for an extended period of time; even for the rest of my life (Luke 1:74-75).

So you cannot be born again until you are fully sanctified/sinless, is that correct in your view?

 

[justbyfaith]

You won't find the words ''ten commandmets'' written in any letter by any of the Apostles in the NT. The closest you come to it, is when Paul, writing to born again believers states the ministry of death and condemnation, the letter that kills was engraved in stone(ten commandments) I have to ask myself, if it was not important enough for any of the Apostles to mention the words 'ten commandments' even once when spreading the message of the new covenant to believers in scripture, why are so many today relentlessly stating 'Ten Commandments'. Yes, individual commands within that law are mentioned, but never that phrase.
To suggest the Ten Commandments are the law of liberty is frankly, ridiculous. The reason Paul kept stressing you can have no righteousness of obeying the law was because of the Ten Commandments. Those commands are the perfect, holy and righteous law of God, but they have no power to make you holy. Perfectly obey the commands the bible states are the letter that kills, the ministry of death and condemnation or stand guilty before them.
Some profess a life of a righteousness of faith in Christ, we are not under law they say. However, the yardstick to gauge if you are indeed a born again believer according to them is the ''ten commandments'' It reminds me of Jesus words:
Many after drinking the old wine don't want the new, for they say: 'the old is better'
No one obeys the letter of the Ten Commandments, even those who insist it is a gauge as to whether you are truly born again.

However, the spirit of what is written can be obeyed (Romans 7:6, 8:4).

 

[justbyfaith]

If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, “Love your neighbor as yourself,”[a] you are doing right. 9 But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as lawbreakers. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. 11 For he who said, “You shall not commit adultery,”[b] also said, “You shall not murder.”[c] If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker. James2:9-11

So what is the law of liberty? The TC? Stumble at just one point concerning the ten commandments and therefore you are guilty of breaking the entire law? The letter of which law kills, and is the ministry of death and condemnation. Is that the law of liberty? Really?
I think its more likely to be the royal law. Love your neighbour as yourself'
And as Paul stated:
Carry each others burdens(love them) and so fulfill the law of Christ Gal6:2

Two of the ten are included in James' definition of the law of liberty (James 2:11-12).

 

[Onesimus63]

Two of the ten are included in James' definition of the law of liberty (James 2:11-12).

As you cannot address the post, I will let that speak as a response

 

[Onesimus63]

However, the spirit of what is written can be obeyed (Romans 7:6, 8:4).

As you cannot address the post I will let that speak as a response

 

[Onesimus63]

Ive never heard this teaching before. You can be justified in Christ but not born again until you are fully sanctified. Which I assume means, you cannot be born again until you reach sinless perfection

 

[justbyfaith]

So you cannot be born again until you are fully sanctified/sinless, is that correct in your view?

"sinless" is not the word that I would use.

Those who are set free from the power of sin are set free from it in that the element of sin is rendered dead within them (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that it no longer has any say over their behaviour (Romans 6:14).

Such are not "sinless"; for they have sin (and thus are in no way in violation of 1 John 1:8).

However, wholly sanctified (1 Thessalonians 5:23-24 (kjv)) means that the element of sin is rendered dead so that the person is enabled to walk in holiness and righteousness "all the days of his life" (Luke 1:74-75).

 

[justbyfaith]

As you cannot address the post, I will let that speak as a response

I have addressed the post.