Galatians Discussion

[Onesimus63]

Another way of stating what is in this post is to say that because sin we commit causes our death we must not obey the Lord when the Lord tells us to obey. Thank heavens you qualify it by speaking of the letter of the law. Christ gave us the spirit of the law.

I have never found a scripture that tells us "do not obey the letter of the law" but I find many scripture tells us the spirit of the law is much better. You can disobey the law of the Lord by obeying the letter of the law, like the Pharisee who disobeyed being kind to others as he obeyed what he thought was a law not to work on the Sabbath.

No born again Christian in their heart wants to disobey God, for the law is in their heart, so, in their heart they want to live according to what has been placed there. And, that includes, the desire not to covet, steal, bear false witness, take the Lords name in vain etc, plus much more that is not mentioned in the words of the Ten Commandments.

 

[justbyfaith]

Firstly, Phil 3:6

Did Saul really believe he perfectly obeyed the whole of the moral law without one slip/was blameless concerning it? Think about it. I like the way the NIV 1984 edition puts it:

As for legalistic righteousness, faultless

OK, so you have made clear your view Paul is speaking of his life as a Christian in verses7-11. You have nothing in those verses to back that up, only your opinions.

So, in your opinion, Saul the Pharisee did not know the ten commandments, for he is speaking of when the law came to him. Neither can Saul have known lust if you are correct, though Paul told Timothy he was the chief of sinners. It isn’t credible I’m afraid. So your belief is, only when Saul became Paul did he become aware of the commandment: Thou shalt not covet. And Paul the Christian then found himself a far worse sinner than Saul the Pharisee had been, for as a Christian he became full of all manner of concupiscence. Well if that is what you wish to believe you are entitled to that view, I could never agree with you. People under the old covenant knew sin. David said no one was righteous before God. The notion God made a covenant but people did not know the ten commandments, or what that entailed is fanciful in my view. And, other Pharisees were of course full of everything unclean on the inside(note everything) Jesus said so. Do you think they really did not know of lust either? Many today will preach virtual sinless perfection for christians, but does that mean they are not aware, or conscious of sin in their own lives. If that were so, how could they have been born again? I would not condemn them all

Those who are born again may not be aware of, or conscious of, sin in their own lives (while, in order to become born again, they would have to become aware of their own sins in order that they might repent of living a sinful life-pattern).

Here was Paul's take:

1Co 4:3, But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.
1Co 4:4, For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.

 

[Onesimus63]

Those who are born again may not be aware of, or conscious of, sin in their own lives (while, in order to become born again, they would have to become aware of their own sins in order that they might repent of living a sinful life-pattern).

Here was Paul's take:

1Co 4:3, But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.
1Co 4:4, For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.

For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God 1Peter1:23



So where are the people at in their walk who have been born again? Next chapter

Therefore, rid yourselves of all malice and all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and slander of every kind. 2 Like newborn babies, crave pure spiritual milk, so that by it you may grow up in your salvation, 3 now that you have tasted that the Lord is good 1 Peter2:1-3

 

[justbyfaith]

For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God 1Peter1:23



So where are the people at in their walk who have been born again? Next chapter

Therefore, rid yourselves of all malice and all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and slander of every kind. 2 Like newborn babies, crave pure spiritual milk, so that by it you may grow up in your salvation, 3 now that you have tasted that the Lord is good 1 Peter2:1-3

Amen. I would even emphasize what I have highlighted above.

No hypocrisy in the true kingdom of God.

 

[Onesimus63]

Amen. I would even emphasize what I have highlighted above.

No hypocrisy in the true kingdom of God.

The texts clearly show Peter's readers have been born again, and yet, they are as newborn babies that need to grow, and faults they have that need to be dealt with

 

[justbyfaith]

I am not singling out anyone in particular; just decrying hypocrisy as I find it to be an abhorrent thing, especially when I find it in the church.

 

[justbyfaith]

The texts clearly show Peter's readers have been born again, and yet, they are as newborn babies that need to grow, and faults they have that need to be dealt with

Even a baby who is a true child of God is defined by the following.

Psa 51:7, Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.

 

[justbyfaith]

I am a man of like passions with you.

However, I believe in declaring the remedy to living sinfully because of those like passions.

It is found in Romans 8:4.

 

[Onesimus63]

Even a baby who is a true child of God is defined by the following.

Psa 51:7, Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.

It would appear from Peter's words, his born again audience has to grow, they still have glaring faults.

 

[justbyfaith]

It would appear from Peter's words, his born again audience has to grow, they still have glaring faults.

Ideally those faults will be dealt with by the Holy Spirit in due process of time.

 

[justbyfaith]

When a person is born again, the following happens within him.

Isa 1:18, Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

 

[Onesimus63]

Ideally those faults will be dealt with by the Holy Spirit in due process of time.

The church I grew up in was Evangelical. The minister used to revel in sermons attacking the catholic faith. So, naturally, I grew up wondering if any catholic could even be a christian. Then, one day I was chatting to a catholic on the internet. He was describing his walk to me. He sought to live a life without sin, however, he never could attain to it, the sin always returned. He went to a priest, made confession and believed he was cleansed of all his sins, and so it went on and on and on. I was literally stunned to hear that, for it described my walk perfectly in the Evangelical church, apart from going to a priest for confession obviously, I went straight to God

 

[justbyfaith]

The church I grew up in was Evangelical. The minister used to revel in sermons attacking the catholic faith. So, naturally, I grew up wondering if any catholic could even be a christian. Then, one day I was chatting to a catholic on the internet. He was describing his walk to me. He sought to live a life without sin, however, he never could attain to it, the sin always returned. He went to a priest, made confession and believed he was cleansed of all his sins, and so it went on and on and on. I was literally stunned to hear that, for it described my walk perfectly in the Evangelical church, apart from going to a priest for confession obviously, I went straight to God

Did you ever obtain a complete victory? So that you no longer had to confess your sins to God?

 

[Onesimus63]

Ideally those faults will be dealt with by the Holy Spirit in due process of time.

Ah, then we agree, a born again christian has faults that need dealing with over a period of time. Good to agree when we can

 

[Onesimus63]

Did you ever obtain a complete victory? So that you no longer had to confess your sins to God?

If I claimed to be without sin I would have deceived myself, and the truth would not be in me. Personally speaking, I would say the only way we could claim to be sinless, is if we dumb down the law of God from the level it is set at.

 

[justbyfaith]

If I claimed to be without sin I would have deceived myself, and the truth would not be in me. Personally speaking, I would say the only way we could claim to be sinless, is if we dumb down the law of God from the level it is set at.

The element of sin can be rendered dead within us (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that it no longer has any say over our behaviour (Romans 6:14).

We are not obligated to obey the flesh (Romans 8:12 (kjv, NLT)).

And therefore, sinning as a believer is not inevitable.

We can walk consistently, not after the flesh but after the Spirit (Romans 8:4), for an extended period of time; even for the rest of our lives (Luke 1:74-75).

 

[Onesimus63]

The element of sin can be rendered dead within us (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that it no longer has any say over our behaviour (Romans 6:14).

We are not obligated to obey the flesh (Romans 8:12 (kjv, NLT)).

And therefore, sinning as a believer is not inevitable.

We can walk consistently, not after the flesh but after the Spirit (Romans 8:4), for an extended period of time; even for the rest of our lives (Luke 1:74-75).

Well I dont feel inclined to go over and over and round and round in circles this subject with you anymore, no offence

 

[justbyfaith]

Ideally those faults will be dealt with by the Holy Spirit in due process of time.

Ah, then we agree, a born again christian has faults that need dealing with over a period of time. Good to agree when we can

And that due process of time may even be in this life...we do not have to wait for our glorified bodies in order to be sanctified...as a matter of fact, we may be wholly sanctified ahead of time because of the waiting (1 John 3:2-3).

When that happens, it may even be the moment that the person is born again, would you agree?

 

[justbyfaith]

Well I dont feel inclined to go over and over and round and round in circles this subject with you anymore, no offence

I don't mind if you don't want to continue the conversation...my wife does that to me all of the time.

 

[Grandpa]

Paul the christian died to the law, he didn't try and follow it

Yes.

AFTER he found out he couldn't follow it perfectly and that trying to follow it actually CAUSED more sin.