The False Teaching (& Truth) of what happens at the Rapture.

[TheDivineWatermark]

kleronomos said:
SO NOW YOUR NEW POSITION IS [...]

No, not "new" position. If you've been reading along (my posts), I've never changed my position... obviously you've simply not yet comprehended it.




[Again, Paul's two epistles are IN PERFECT AGREEMENT with each other... but it seems to me that few comprehend that when Paul mentions the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]" at the ARRIVAL of the DOTL time-period (1Th5:1-3), that this CORRESPONDS with JESUS' WORDS about that SAME THING in His Olivet Discourse (Matt24:4-8 / Mk13:5-8 / Lk21:8-11), and that these CORRESPOND with the SEALS at the START of the "7 yr period" (the "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" time-period, per Rev1:1 / 4:1 / 1:19c)--NO, the "BPs" have NOT YET BEGUN to unfold!!]

 

[Absolutely]

DOESN'T ANYONE WHO BELIEVES IN PRE TRIB RAPTURE SEE A NEED FOR ANY OF THESE TO BE PROVED BEFORE BEING BROUGHT TO THE CONSUMING FIRE?



Revelation 2:1 Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;

Revelation 2:2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:

Revelation 2:3 And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.

Revelation 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.

SHOULDN'T THIS BE TESTED? PROVED? OR SHOULD IT JUST GO TO HEAVEN AS IS? IS THIS WHAT THE 'BRIDE OF CHRIST' SHOULD LOOK LIKE? JUST ASKING WHY THIS ISN'T BEING ASKED

Revelation 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Revelation 2:6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate.

Revelation 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Revelation 2:8 And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;

Revelation 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

Revelation 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

AND HERE I THOUGHT HE WAS CAST OUT OF HEAVEN

Revelation 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

Revelation 2:12 And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write; These things saith he which hath the sharp sword with two edges;

Revelation 2:13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.

Revelation 2:14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.

SHOULDN'T THIS BE TESTED? PROVED? OR SHOULD IT JUST GO TO HEAVEN AS IS? IS THIS WHAT THE 'BRIDE OF CHRIST' SHOULD LOOK LIKE? JUST ASKING WHY THIS ISN'T BEING ASKED


Revelation 2:15 So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes, which thing I hate.

Revelation 2:16 Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

Revelation 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

Revelation 2:18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;

Revelation 2:19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.

Revelation 2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

SHOULDN'T THIS BE TESTED? PROVED? OR SHOULD IT JUST GO TO HEAVEN AS IS? IS THIS WHAT THE 'BRIDE OF CHRIST' SHOULD LOOK LIKE? JUST ASKING WHY THIS ISN'T BEING ASKED


Revelation 2:21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.

Revelation 2:22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.


DOESN'T SEEM LIKE THIS SHOULD GO TO HEAVEN WITHOUT SOME SORT OF TEST TO SEE IF IT HAS BEEN REMEDIED

Revelation 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

Revelation 2:24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.

Revelation 2:25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

Revelation 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Revelation 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

Revelation 2:28 And I will give him the morning star.

Revelation 2:29 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Revelation 3:1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.

Revelation 3:2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.

SHOULDN'T THIS BE TESTED? PROVED? OR SHOULD IT JUST GO TO HEAVEN AS IS? IS THIS WHAT THE 'BRIDE OF CHRIST' SHOULD LOOK LIKE? JUST ASKING WHY THIS ISN'T BEING ASKED


Revelation 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

Revelation 3:4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.

Revelation 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Revelation 3:6 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Revelation 3:7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;

Revelation 3:8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

Revelation 3:9 ......

Revelation 3:11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Revelation 3:13 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Revelation 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

Revelation 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.

Revelation 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

Revelation 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

SHOULDN'T THIS BE TESTED? PROVED? OR SHOULD IT JUST GO TO HEAVEN AS IS? IS THIS WHAT THE 'BRIDE OF CHRIST' SHOULD LOOK LIKE? JUST ASKING WHY THIS ISN'T BEING ASKED



Revelation 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

Revelation 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

Revelation 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Revelation 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Revelation 3:22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Yes indeed. I gave all those verses a blue ribbon.
Only the remnant are raptured.
5 foolish and carnal virgins are not raptured.
Roughly half the church.

Same with the one taken/left.
Same ratio taken to heaven
Roughly half.
" two believers in a bed, one taken, the other left."

Thanks for the pretrib verses

 

[Absolutely]

If by 'resurrected' you mean what is written then I agree.

1Thessalonians 4:11 And that ye study to be quiet, and to do your own business, and to work with your own hands, as we commanded you;

1Thessalonians 4:12 That ye may walk honestly toward them that are without, and that ye may have lack of nothing.

1Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

1Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

Amen
Pretrib rapture

 

[cv5]

No, not "new" position. If you've been reading along (my posts), I've never changed my position... obviously you've simply not yet comprehended it.




[Again, Paul's two epistles are IN PERFECT AGREEMENT with each other... but it seems to me that few comprehend that when Paul mentions the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]" at the ARRIVAL of the DOTL time-period (1Th5:1-3), that this CORRESPONDS with JESUS' WORDS about that SAME THING in His Olivet Discourse (Matt24:4-8 / Mk13:5-8 / Lk21:8-11), and that these CORRESPOND with the SEALS at the START of the "7 yr period" (the "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" time-period, per Rev1:1 / 4:1 / 1:19c)--NO, the "BPs" have NOT YET BEGUN to unfold!!]

Totally agree.

Matt 24:8
"ALL these are the beginning of sorrows.."

Beginning with the "deceives you" of v. 4 parallel with 2 Thessalonians 2:10......aka first seal first birth pang.

 

[Heaven_Bound]

Nope. It is the result of correct textual analysis and superior scholarship.

There's no doubt whatsoever that "the departure" is correct.

Look at the Church this Scholar attended.
He is a product of Teaching, not literal research and conformation.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Look at the Church this Scholar attended.
He is a product of Teaching, not literal research and conformation.

[are we talking about the same people?!?!]



Check it out for yourself! Page 93 (far right-hand side column): under the entry "apostasia" and then two entries down "apostasis"
(which "WINER'S GRAMMAR" also says IS THE SAME WORD--one simply being a LATER FORM of the other!!... which quote I'd also posted)

Liddell and Scott's Greek-English Lexicon (1871) [page 93, far right column]- https://archive.org/details/lexiconabridgedf00liddrich/page/92/mode/2up?view=theater






I have the hard copy right in front of me.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

The word was known to be used in a VARIETY of circumstances / contexts... not merely "FROM THE FAITH" (as some want to INJECT INTO THIS WORD, as though [the idea of] "FROM THE FAITH" were INHERENT IN this word... it ISN'T, but that's derived from the CONTEXTS where this word is sometimes found / used)... These are some of the VARIOUS WAYS this word was used (in that era):

--"a departure FROM MOSES" (Acts 21:21)

--a departure FROM SOME FAITH ISSUE

--a departure FROM SOME GOVERNANCE ISSUE

--a departure OF A BOAT FROM A DOCK

--a departure [/departing] OF A FEVER




[obviously not all IDENTICAL *CONTEXTS*]



____________

Also (again), the FIRST SEVEN ENGLISH translations translated this word as "DEPARTURE / a DEPARTING"... BEFORE kjv came along in 1611 (or whenever)



[so did the Latin Vulgate in the 400s]

 

[Absolutely]

The word was known to be used in a VARIETY of circumstances / contexts... not merely "FROM THE FAITH" (as some want to INJECT INTO THIS WORD, as though [the idea of] "FROM THE FAITH" were INHERENT IN this word... it ISN'T, but that's derived from the CONTEXTS where this word is sometimes found / used)... These are some of the VARIOUS WAYS this word was used (in that era):

--"a departure FROM MOSES" (Acts 21:21)

--a departure FROM SOME FAITH ISSUE

--a departure FROM SOME GOVERNANCE ISSUE

--a departure OF A BOAT FROM A DOCK

--a departure [/departing] OF A FEVER




[obviously not all IDENTICAL *CONTEXTS*]



____________

Also (again), the FIRST SEVEN ENGLISH translations translated this word as "DEPARTURE / a DEPARTING"... BEFORE kjv came along in 1611 (or whenever)



[so did the Latin Vulgate in the 400s]

I lean towards your position, but in addressing postribbers i play out their interpretation.

But "from the faith" ,makes no sense, because there is already that very thing in play nowadays.

So how is there going to be a noticeable falling away ?

Does not flow at all

 

[peldom10]

Why would I move forward and prove yet something else to you. You won't believe it either. NOW the pre trib rapture theory wants me to believe that 'a falling away' IS A PRE TRIBULATION RAPTURE OF THE CHURCH TO HEAVEN? SERIOUSLY you don't see that as adding to the words of GOD or teaching a doctrine OUT OF NOTHING WRITTEN BY GODS WORDS just conjecture on your part.

Have you ever read the OT?

Falling away is a pre-trib position of scriptures. It is occurring now and has been occurring since the 1960's with great acceleration attributes in the past 25 years..
The Bible clearly denotes this as one of the major occurrences before the rapture.

It, in itself, is not the rapture.

 

[peldom10]

Yes indeed. I gave all those verses a blue ribbon.
Only the remnant are raptured.
5 foolish and carnal virgins are not raptured.
Roughly half the church.

Same with the one taken/left.
Same ratio taken to heaven
Roughly half.
" two believers in a bed, one taken, the other left."

Thanks for the pretrib verses

Unless there is a major change in this society (I don't see happening) ....10% raptured will be an amazing number.
I now understand where God says..path and gate is narrow.......few will find their way.

 

[kleronomos]

1.

[changed the colors to show what you SKIPPED BACK OVER and PAST!!]

Verse 3a's "that day" refers back to VERSE 2's Subject (in RED)... NOT back to [Paul's] VERSE 1's Subject






Paul's two letters are IN PERFECT AGREEMENT with each other (recall, I said in 1Th5:2-3 Paul says "the day of the Lord" ARRIVES "exactly like" the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]" that COMES UPON a woman... and that the Thessalonians "KNOW PERFECTLY" the manner of its ARRIVAL--Jesus had already SPOKEN OF THOSE VERY "beginning of birth PANGS [PLURAL]" which by the way are EQUIVALENT the SEALS which take place at the START of the "7 yrs" [not commencing at their END!!]; Matt24:4/Mk13:5's "A CERTAIN ONE" [bringing deception] = Rev6:2 = 2Th2:9a[8a] "whose COMING / ARRIVAL / ADVENT...")

So that would be a yes to YOU TEACHING AS GODS TRUTH

Don't be deceived by any man, the gathering unto the Lord will not happen until after the gathering unto the Lord.


And you don't see any issues with that? Does God?


Ezekiel 13:4 O Israel, thy prophets are like the foxes in the deserts.

Ezekiel 13:5 Ye have not gone up into the gaps, neither made up the hedge for the house of Israel to stand in the battle in the day of the LORD.

Ezekiel 13:6 They have seen vanity and lying divination, saying, The LORD saith: and the LORD hath not sent them: and they have made others to hope that they would confirm the word.

Ezekiel 13:7 Have ye not seen a vain vision, and have ye not spoken a lying divination, whereas ye say, The LORD saith it albeit I have not spoken?

Ezekiel 13:8 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because ye have spoken vanity, and seen lies, therefore, behold, I am against you, saith the Lord GOD.

Ezekiel 13:9 And Mine hand shall be upon the prophets that see vanity, and that divine lies they shall not be in the assembly of my people, neither shall they be written in the writing of the house of Israel neither shall they enter into the land of Israel and ye shall know that I am the Lord GOD.

Ezekiel 13:10 Because, even because they have seduced my people, saying, Peace; and there was no peace; and one built up a wall, and, lo, others daubed it with untempered morter:

Ezekiel 13:11 Say unto them which daub it with untempered morter, that it shall fall: there shall be an overflowing shower; and ye, O great hailstones, shall fall; and a stormy wind shall rend it.

Ezekiel 13:12 Lo, when the wall is fallen, shall it not be said unto you, Where is the daubing wherewith ye have daubed it?

Ezekiel 13:13 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD I will even rend it with a stormy wind in my fury; and there shall be an overflowing shower in mine anger, and great hailstones in my fury to consume it.

Ezekiel 13:14 So will I break down the wall that ye have daubed with untempered morter, and bring it down to the ground, so that the foundation thereof shall be discovered, and it shall fall, and ye shall be consumed in the midst thereof: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.

Ezekiel 13:15 Thus will I accomplish my wrath upon the wall, and upon them that have daubed it with untempered morter, and will say unto you, The wall is no more, neither they that daubed it;

Ezekiel 13:16 To wit, the prophets of Israel which prophesy concerning Jerusalem, and which see visions of peace for her, and there is no peace, saith the Lord GOD.

Ezekiel 13:17 Likewise, thou son of man, set thy face against the daughters of thy people, which prophesy out of their own heart; and prophesy thou against them,

Ezekiel 13:18 And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe to the women that sew pillows to all armholes, and make kerchiefs upon the head of every stature to hunt souls! Will ye hunt the souls of my people, and will ye save the souls alive that come unto you?

Ezekiel 13:19 And will ye pollute me among my people for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, to slay the souls that should not die, and to save the souls alive that should not live, by your lying to my people that hear your lies?

Ezekiel 13:20 Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.

Ezekiel 13:21 Your kerchiefs also will I tear, and deliver my people out of your hand, and they shall be no more in your hand to be hunted; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.

Ezekiel 13:22 Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way,



BY PROMISING HIM LIFE.




Ezekiel 13:23 Therefore ye shall see no more vanity, nor divine divinations: for I will deliver my people out of your hand: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.



PRE TRIB - PROMISING LIFE

How will 'being raptured before any harm can come to you' be considered 'overcoming and enduring to the end' and be considered JUST

to one who hung on a cross for days or was set on fire to be a roman candle rather than deny the name of the Lord?

 

[cv5]

Falling away is a pre-trib position of scriptures. It is occurring now and has been occurring since the 1960's with great acceleration attributes in the past 25 years..
The Bible clearly denotes this as one of the major occurrences before the rapture.

It, in itself, is not the rapture.

My friend you really need to reprogram your thinking.

2Thes 2:3 "THE apostasia" does NOT carry with it any thought of "falling".
Nor does it indicate anything having to do with "faith".

It simply means "THE (definite article) departure" (from a previous standing).

Please aquaint yourself with everything TDW has provided on this particular passage. First rate scholarship. And let's dispel this magical thinking and mythology......

 

[kleronomos]

Falling away is a pre-trib position of scriptures. It is occurring now and has been occurring since the 1960's with great acceleration attributes in the past 25 years..
The Bible clearly denotes this as one of the major occurrences before the rapture.

It, in itself, is not the rapture.

I do agree there has been a falling away going on for the past 25 years but I don't wonder why. Look at this subject here. To become a Christian nowadays you have to COME TO ACCEPT that coming and returning are TWO DIFFERENT THINGS, two different events. If those two words can't simply be read to mean what all English speaking people know them to mean, then what are the chances of EVER being able to understand the words of GOD.

NOW add to that - reading the words 'falling away', ACTUALLY means there will be no gathering unto until after a gathering??? unto,
I WOULD RUN AWAY MYSELF.

If common sense and simplicity cant be used, if what is written isn't what is meant, even the most simple verses, then THERE IS NO CHANCE to ever come to any understanding.

Doesn't matter that it goes against EVERY way God teaches us is His truth.

It is the 'falling away' that allows the whole world to worship after Satan. When the INSTEAD OF/ANTI CHRIST deceives the church and the world into believing he is Christ and worship starts going to him instead of OUR FATHER who art in heaven, falling away includes ALMOST everyone. ...with lying signs and wonders.

Those who believe in pre trib will fall for his lies because the 1st supernatural power coming in their belief system is CHRIST. Since Christ doesn't come until AFTER Satan, Satan will be who they believe. It's math, as in it is absolute. Don't be deceived by any man means A DECEIVER is coming first. Now for those who study every day THEY themselves may be able to recognize but to all those not so dedicated all they know is Christ is coming for them. THOSE will not stand a chance. Had they been taught to NOT be deceived that Satan was coming first then they would have stood a chance. BUT we are responsible for every one who does listen to us not just ourselves.

 

[kleronomos]

Yes indeed. I gave all those verses a blue ribbon.
Only the remnant are raptured.
5 foolish and carnal virgins are not raptured.
Roughly half the church.

Same with the one taken/left.
Same ratio taken to heaven
Roughly half.
" two believers in a bed, one taken, the other left."

Thanks for the pretrib verses

Isaiah 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.

Isaiah 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

Isaiah 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.

Isaiah 28:12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.

Isaiah 28:13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

 

[kleronomos]

Amen
Pretrib rapture

Do you see how this reply comes across as deceptive? The way in which you are replying is making it sound like I believe in PRE TRIB RAPTURE which I don't.

If it isn't intentional please take note,

If it is intentional then I rebuke you in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[CS1]

Do you see how this reply comes across as deceptive? The way in which you are replying is making it sound like I believe in PRE TRIB RAPTURE which I don't.

If it isn't intentional please take note,

If it is intentional then I rebuke you in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.

your position on the topic is not seen as authoritative because you are trying to rebuke others and suggest they are deceptive. You are only rebuking yourself.

 

[peldom10]

My friend you really need to reprogram your thinking.

2Thes 2:3 "THE apostasia" does NOT carry with it any thought of "falling".
Nor does it indicate anything having to do with "faith".

It simply means "THE (definite article) departure" (from a previous standing).

Please aquaint yourself with everything TDW has provided on this particular passage. First rate scholarship. And let's dispel this magical thinking and mythology......

Just follow scripture and you will be fine.

 

[peldom10]

I do agree there has been a falling away going on for the past 25 years but I don't wonder why. Look at this subject here. To become a Christian nowadays you have to COME TO ACCEPT that coming and returning are TWO DIFFERENT THINGS, two different events. If those two words can't simply be read to mean what all English speaking people know them to mean, then what are the chances of EVER being able to understand the words of GOD.

NOW add to that - reading the words 'falling away', ACTUALLY means there will be no gathering unto until after a gathering??? unto,
I WOULD RUN AWAY MYSELF.

If common sense and simplicity cant be used, if what is written isn't what is meant, even the most simple verses, then THERE IS NO CHANCE to ever come to any understanding.

Doesn't matter that it goes against EVERY way God teaches us is His truth.

It is the 'falling away' that allows the whole world to worship after Satan. When the INSTEAD OF/ANTI CHRIST deceives the church and the world into believing he is Christ and worship starts going to him instead of OUR FATHER who art in heaven, falling away includes ALMOST everyone. ...with lying signs and wonders.

Those who believe in pre trib will fall for his lies because the 1st supernatural power coming in their belief system is CHRIST. Since Christ doesn't come until AFTER Satan, Satan will be who they believe. It's math, as in it is absolute. Don't be deceived by any man means A DECEIVER is coming first. Now for those who study every day THEY themselves may be able to recognize but to all those not so dedicated all they know is Christ is coming for them. THOSE will not stand a chance. Had they been taught to NOT be deceived that Satan was coming first then they would have stood a chance. BUT we are responsible for every one who does listen to us not just ourselves.

WOW...don't allow new age religion advocates muddle the waters of scriptures and your mind.

 

[ewq1938]

(which "WINER'S GRAMMAR" also says IS THE SAME WORD--one simply being a LATER FORM of the other!!

A later form isn't "the same word". This is the same concept of a root word and later a new word created from that root. The root word, the older word, means to change your mind and it can be about anything. The new word means to change your mind regarding a religious belief which is known as Apostasy.

Neither word has anything to do with moving physically. You don't even understand what it means to change one's "standing". It's not about literal standing.

 

[ewq1938]

Also (again), the FIRST SEVEN ENGLISH translations translated this word as "DEPARTURE / a DEPARTING"... BEFORE kjv came along in 1611 (or whenever)

And it is always a religious departing as in Apostasy.

Here are 5 expert sources that prove the "departure" in 2 Thess 2:3 is the Apostasy:

Strong's definition G646

apostasia

ap-os-tas-ee'-ah

Feminine of the same as G647; defection from truth (properly the state), (“apostasy”) : - falling away, forsake.

Total KJV occurrences: 2


Thayer Definition:

G646 apostasia


1) a falling away, defection, apostasy

Part of Speech: noun feminine

A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: feminine of the same as G647

Citing in TDNT: 1:513, 88

Total KJV occurrences: 2





Abbott-Smith Manual Greek Lexicon of the New Testament

Apostasia

defection, apostasy, revolt; in late Gk. (MM, Exp., viii; Lft., Notes, 111; Cremer, 308) for cl. ?p?stas?? , freq. in sense of political revolt, in LXX (e.g. Joshua 22:22, 2 Chronicles 29:19, Jeremiah 2:19) and NT always of religious apostasy: Ac21:21, II Th 2:3.







Liddell and Scott:

A defection, revolt, v.l. in D.H.7.1, J.Vit.10, Plu.Galb.1; esp. in religious sense, rebellion against God, apostasy, LXX Jo.22.22, 2 Ep.Th.2.3 .





Winer's Grammar:

Apostasia, a falling away, defection, apostasy; in the Bible namely, from the true religion: Acts 21:21; 2 Thessalonians 2:3 ; ((Joshua 22:22; 2 Chronicles 29:19; 2 Chronicles 33:19); Jeremiah 2:19; Jeremiah 3629) 32 Complutensian; 1 Macc. 2:15). The earlier Greeks say Apostasis; see Lob. ad Phryn., p. 528; (Winer's Grammar, 24).