The False Teaching (& Truth) of what happens at the Rapture.

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T

TheDivineWatermark

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#901
Aug 3, 2018
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#901
Heaven_Bound said:
I believe that as well, because we will still be Witnesses for God!
Click to expand...
FYI, I had ADDED to my post after you grabbed it to quote it:

but distinguishes these [into/within their own distinct time-frames (see also Dan12:3b)], just as Scripture itself does.)
Click to expand...
1) I think you do not grasp when I mean when I say that IRENAEUS *distinguishes* these (just as Scripture itself does);

2) the part i ADDED (after you grabbed my post to quote it), namely Daniel 12:3b, is in the CONTEXT of Daniel chpt 12 speaking of "the WISE [of ISRAEL]" <--NOT "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" (who won't BE HERE on the earth then); vv.1,6-7 informs us of the TIME-PERIOD being covered in this context (and WHO it is that are "the WISE" [vv.3b,10,(1)] of this passage... who will be the ones, during that time-frame, "TURN[-ing] many TO RIGHTEOUSNESS" v.3b)
 
H

Heaven_Bound

Banned
#902
Dec 29, 2021
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#902
cv5 said:
If you can find the biblical term "Church" or "Bride" anywhere between Rev 6 thru 18....let us know.
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Revelation 7:
13 Then one of the elders spoke up and said to me, “Who are these wearing white robes, and where did they come from?” 14 I said to him, “My lord, you are the one who knows.” He said to me, “These are the ones who have survived the time of great distress; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

15 “For this reason they stand before God’s throne
and worship him day and night in his temple.
The one who sits on the throne will shelter them.
16 They will not hunger or thirst anymore,
nor will the sun or any heat strike them.
17 For the Lamb who is in the center of the throne will shepherd them
and lead them to springs of life-giving water,
and God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.”

Key portion of this Passage is found in Verse 14:
“These are the ones who have survived the time of great distress;
 
H

Heaven_Bound

Banned
#903
Dec 29, 2021
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#903
TheDivineWatermark said:
FYI, I had ADDED to my post after you grabbed it to quote it:



1) I think you do not grasp when I mean when I say that IRENAEUS *distinguishes* these (just as Scripture itself does);

2) the part i ADDED (after you grabbed my post to quote it), namely Daniel 12:3b, is in the CONTEXT of Daniel chpt 12 speaking of "the WISE [of ISRAEL]" <--NOT "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" (who won't BE HERE on the earth then); vv.1,6-7 informs us of the TIME-PERIOD being covered in this context (and WHO it is that are "the WISE" [vv.3b,10,(1)] of this passage... who will be the ones, during that time-frame, "TURN[-ing] many TO RIGHTEOUSNESS" v.3b)
Click to expand...
Revelation 7:
13 Then one of the elders spoke up and said to me, “Who are these wearing white robes, and where did they come from?” 14 I said to him, “My lord, you are the one who knows.” He said to me, “These are the ones who have survived the time of great distress; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

15 “For this reason they stand before God’s throne
and worship him day and night in his temple.
The one who sits on the throne will shelter them.
16 They will not hunger or thirst anymore,
nor will the sun or any heat strike them.
17 For the Lamb who is in the center of the throne will shepherd them
and lead them to springs of life-giving water,
and God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.”

Key portion of this Passage is found in Verse 14:
“These are the ones who have survived the time of great distress;
 
T

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
#904
Aug 3, 2018
10,887
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#904
^ ... and where verses 16-17 correspond with Isaiah 49:10 (an EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age passage--the destination-location of those "coming out of THE GREAT tribulation" [vv.9,14 (see also Matt24:14/26:13 the particular msg which WILL BE preached IN / DURING the future TRIB yrs)], "THE GREAT tribulation" aka the SECOND HALF of the future 7 TRIB yrs [same for Dan12:1[3a],6-7 I'd mentioned]).
 
H

Heaven_Bound

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#905
Dec 29, 2021
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#905
Getting Beheaded is not equal to “These are the ones who have survived the time of great distress;

Beheaded = DEATH!

Survived = Made it Through Tribulation!
 
Absolutely

Absolutely

Banned
#906
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
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#906
Heaven_Bound said:
Getting Beheaded is not equal to “These are the ones who have survived the time of great distress;

Beheaded = DEATH!

Survived = Made it Through Tribulation!
Click to expand...
They are in heaven DURING the great tribulation.
Martyred by the ac
 
T

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
#907
Aug 3, 2018
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#907
@Heaven_Bound , not 100% of the "saints" existing in the TIB yrs will be BEHEADED [/martyred]:


--Daniel 12:12 states, "BLESSED is he that WAITETH and COMETH TO the 1335 days"


--Dan7:22 parallels Rev20:4a (NOT those in 20:4b who were BEHEADED / KILLED in the SECOND HALF)... The ones in 20:4a / Dan7:22 are made up (at least IN PART) of those "saints" who will SURVIVE [as "STILL-LIVING" saints] TO THE END of the Trib;


--Lk21:36's INSTRUCTION is aimed at those who will exist in the trib years (it is NOT a "rapture" passage)... "to [ACTIVELY] FLEE OUT-OF each and every thing coming on the earth [i.e. DURING the trib yrs] and to STAND BEFORE the Son of man" (His EARTHLY [MK] designation)--involves at least SOME of these folks ["saints"] surving to the END of the Trib yrs;


--Matt25:31-34 (and context) is both the "SHEEP [/ "ye RIGHTEOUS" / "the RIGHTEOUS"]" and the "goats [/"ye WICKED"] who will be "STILL-LIVING persons" existing on the earth FOLLOWING the Trib yrs / at its END (upon His "RETURN" to the earth, who will then be "separated" in that judgment; SAME as the CONTEXT of Matthew 13:24,30,39,40,49-50 (a passage UPON WHICH their Q of Him was BASED, in Matthew 24:3 and His RESPONSE follows in these TWO CHPTS [24-25]); IOW, NO ONE is shown being "RESURRECTED" in these two passages (Matt25:31-34 and context; and Matt13:24,30,39,40,49-50... these are "STILL-LIVING" persons, at that time);


--about 7 OTHER "BLESSED" passages that speak to this point in time, in the chronology (many persons of whom will be "STILL-LIVING" [saints, having come to faith in Christ DURING the Trib yrs (FOLLOWING "our Rapture")], and who will ENTER the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age IN THEIR MORTAL BODIES capable of reproducing / bearing children (the ONLY ppl who will have the capacity to do so); None of these passages create a picture of any UNSAVED persons ENTERING the MK age [/ being permitted ENTRANCE into it] (as some suppose will take place);


--"AS the days of Noah were" (when it refers to those who will be "LEFT") is talking about those "saints" who will be protected THROUGH the Trib years, and"LEFT" to ENTER the MK age IN MORTAL BODIES capable of reproducing / bearing children (compare "[actively] FILL [/FILLED] the [whole] earth" of both Dan2:35c and Gen9:1, as related to this Matt:42-51 passage [and Lk17, likewise]);


--more (much more)... but since I've not yet witnessed your attempts or ability to READ paying attention to detail and intent, I think these few mentions will have to suffice (and at least hopefully help the readers OUT THERE to see what Scripture itself has to say on this particular point)






Bottom line: it seems to me that you are ill-informed about the matter of ppl (esp "saints" / "the righteous") surviving throughout the Trib yrs, to ENTER the MK age in their mortal bodies...
 
Absolutely

Absolutely

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#908
Jul 23, 2018
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#908
Heaven_Bound said:
Then it should be easy to find that Teaching for the past 1800's years BEFORE Darby.

And guess what, YOU CANNOT FIND THAT TEACHING ANYWHERE!

This is a new Doctrine less than 200 years and was Addressed by a Church Father who said the Pre-Trib Idealism is False, and that ELECT'S LAST VICTORY WILL BE SURVIVING TRIBULATION!
Click to expand...
My post went over your head.
 
T

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
#909
Aug 3, 2018
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#909
TheDivineWatermark said:
@Heaven_Bound , not 100% of the "saints" existing in the TIB yrs will be BEHEADED [/martyred]:


--Daniel 12:12 states, "BLESSED is he that WAITETH and COMETH TO the 1335 days"


--Dan7:22 parallels Rev20:4a (NOT those in 20:4b who were BEHEADED / KILLED in the SECOND HALF)... The ones in 20:4a / Dan7:22 are made up (at least IN PART) of those "saints" who will SURVIVE [as "STILL-LIVING" saints] TO THE END of the Trib;


--Lk21:36's INSTRUCTION is aimed at those who will exist in the trib years (it is NOT a "rapture" passage)... "to [ACTIVELY] FLEE OUT-OF each and every thing coming on the earth [i.e. DURING the trib yrs] and to STAND BEFORE the Son of man" (His EARTHLY [MK] designation)--involves at least SOME of these folks ["saints"] surving to the END of the Trib yrs;


--Matt25:31-34 (and context) is both the "SHEEP [/ "ye RIGHTEOUS" / "the RIGHTEOUS"]" and the "goats [/"ye WICKED"] who will be "STILL-LIVING persons" existing on the earth FOLLOWING the Trib yrs / at its END (upon His "RETURN" to the earth, who will then be "separated" in that judgment; SAME as the CONTEXT of Matthew 13:24,30,39,40,49-50 (a passage UPON WHICH their Q of Him was BASED, in Matthew 24:3 and His RESPONSE follows in these TWO CHPTS [24-25]); IOW, NO ONE is shown being "RESURRECTED" in these two passages (Matt25:31-34 and context; and Matt13:24,30,39,40,49-50... these are "STILL-LIVING" persons, at that time);


--about 7 OTHER "BLESSED" passages that speak to this point in time, in the chronology (many persons of whom will be "STILL-LIVING" [saints, having come to faith in Christ DURING the Trib yrs (FOLLOWING "our Rapture")], and who will ENTER the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age IN THEIR MORTAL BODIES capable of reproducing / bearing children (the ONLY ppl who will have the capacity to do so); None of these passages create a picture of any UNSAVED persons ENTERING the MK age [/ being permitted ENTRANCE into it] (as some suppose will take place);


--"AS the days of Noah were" (when it refers to those who will be "LEFT") is talking about those "saints" who will be protected THROUGH the Trib years, and"LEFT" to ENTER the MK age IN MORTAL BODIES capable of reproducing / bearing children (compare "[actively] FILL [/FILLED] the [whole] earth" of both Dan2:35c and Gen9:1, as related to this Matt:42-51 passage [and Lk17, likewise]);


--more (much more)... but since I've not yet witnessed your attempts or ability to READ paying attention to detail and intent, I think these few mentions will have to suffice (and at least hopefully help the readers OUT THERE to see what Scripture itself has to say on this particular point)






Bottom line: it seems to me that you are ill-informed about the matter of ppl (esp "saints" / "the righteous") surviving throughout the Trib yrs, to ENTER the MK age in their mortal bodies...
Click to expand...
Apparently, PLEASE DISREGARD this post ^ (my Post #907), if it ALSO *missed* the point I thought I was reading in "H_B's" post #905 ( @Heaven_Bound )









P.S. it was this sentence of his that perplexed me:

Getting Beheaded is not equal to “These are the ones who have survived the time of great distress;
Click to expand...
I wasn't aware anyone had suggested such a thing... NVM.
 
Absolutely

Absolutely

Banned
#910
Jul 23, 2018
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#910
Heaven_Bound said:
Revelation 7:
13 Then one of the elders spoke up and said to me, “Who are these wearing white robes, and where did they come from?” 14 I said to him, “My lord, you are the one who knows.” He said to me, “These are the ones who have survived the time of great distress; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

15 “For this reason they stand before God’s throne
and worship him day and night in his temple.
The one who sits on the throne will shelter them.
16 They will not hunger or thirst anymore,
nor will the sun or any heat strike them.
17 For the Lamb who is in the center of the throne will shepherd them
and lead them to springs of life-giving water,
and God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.”

Key portion of this Passage is found in Verse 14:
“These are the ones who have survived the time of great distress;
Click to expand...
You changed it to " survived" lol

Unbelievable.

Yet another pretrib rapture talking point.
Thanks
 
Absolutely

Absolutely

Banned
#913
Jul 23, 2018
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#913
Heaven_Bound said:
When Tribulation ENDS, the Son of Man returns = Words of Christ, Matthew 24

All we need because it is the very Word of God!
Click to expand...
Both sides believe that.

Not the rapture.
Jesus used lot and noah.
Neither was delivered post judgemant....or mid trib.

Pure conjecture in the postrib rapture doctrine.
 
Absolutely

Absolutely

Banned
#914
Jul 23, 2018
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#914
What a hard job to try and reframe noah an lot.

Whew
That would be tragic.
A babe in christ with a bible can debunk the postrib rapture.

Mainly by rooting out their "verses"
They got what, 2 ????

And those 2 are force fit reframes.
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#915
Nov 20, 2018
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#915
Heaven_Bound said:
Revelation 7:
13 Then one of the elders spoke up and said to me, “Who are these wearing white robes, and where did they come from?” 14 I said to him, “My lord, you are the one who knows.” He said to me, “These are the ones who have survived the time of great distress; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

15 “For this reason they stand before God’s throne
and worship him day and night in his temple.
The one who sits on the throne will shelter them.
16 They will not hunger or thirst anymore,
nor will the sun or any heat strike them.
17 For the Lamb who is in the center of the throne will shepherd them
and lead them to springs of life-giving water,
and God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.”

Key portion of this Passage is found in Verse 14:
“These are the ones who have survived the time of great distress;
Click to expand...
OK. Not kings and priests, no crowns, no thrones. So we can agree that these are definitely NOT identified as the Church who has been raptured. Correct?
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#917
Nov 20, 2018
23,005
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#917
Heaven_Bound said:
Revelation 7:
13 Then one of the elders spoke up and said to me, “Who are these wearing white robes, and where did they come from?” 14 I said to him, “My lord, you are the one who knows.” He said to me, “These are the ones who have survived the time of great distress; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

15 “For this reason they stand before God’s throne
and worship him day and night in his temple.
The one who sits on the throne will shelter them.
16 They will not hunger or thirst anymore,
nor will the sun or any heat strike them.
17 For the Lamb who is in the center of the throne will shepherd them
and lead them to springs of life-giving water,
and God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.”

Key portion of this Passage is found in Verse 14:
“These are the ones who have survived the time of great distress;
Click to expand...
New American Bible (Revised Edition)?
Not often quoted that's for sure.....
 
H

Heaven_Bound

Banned
#918
Dec 29, 2021
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#918
Absolutely said:
They are in heaven DURING the great tribulation.
Martyred by the ac
Click to expand...
It does not claim that anywhere, You have to literally manipulate Scripture to conclude that.

Manipulating Scripture does not = Truth, it equals your truth!
 
H

Heaven_Bound

Banned
#919
Dec 29, 2021
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#919
cv5 said:
New American Bible (Revised Edition)?
Not often quoted that's for sure.....
Click to expand...
Considering the Translators of the KJV Bible admitted they were not familiar with Koine Greek, but Classical, they literally Hellenized the KJV New Testament. So, it pays to search the closest thing to Koine Greek Translation and I did.
 
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