Trinitarian analogy
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It would seem so from both Daniel and Revelation. And the appearance of Christ in Revelation reflects the appearance of the Father in Daniel. Which is not surprising. John saw the Father seated on His throne (Rev 4:2,3): And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne. And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald.
Daniel also saw the Father (called "the Ancient of Days") seated on His throne: I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of Days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire. (Dan 7:9) Since the Son of Man comes to the Ancient of Days, the two cannot be confused with each other.
Christ resembles the Father in Rev 1:13-15: And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of Man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.
Ezekiel also saw the Father on His throne: And above the firmament that was over their heads was the likeness of a throne, as the appearance of a sapphire stone: and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a man above upon it. (Ezek 1:26)
We should keep in mind that there is much more to these visions than what is written down (hence the word "likeness"), since it may have been difficult to describe in human terms what was seen. But there is no question that visions of the Father were seen by the prophets. As to who appeared before Moses on Mount Sinai, the Bible does say that it was God, but since the Bible also says that no man has seen God (the Father) at any time, it could also mean that (a) either Christ (who is God) appeared to Moses (as He did at the burning bush) or (b) the full glory of God was not seen by Moses (nor by Elijah).
Daniel also saw the Father (called "the Ancient of Days") seated on His throne: I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of Days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire. (Dan 7:9) Since the Son of Man comes to the Ancient of Days, the two cannot be confused with each other.
Christ resembles the Father in Rev 1:13-15: And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of Man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.
Ezekiel also saw the Father on His throne: And above the firmament that was over their heads was the likeness of a throne, as the appearance of a sapphire stone: and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a man above upon it. (Ezek 1:26)
We should keep in mind that there is much more to these visions than what is written down (hence the word "likeness"), since it may have been difficult to describe in human terms what was seen. But there is no question that visions of the Father were seen by the prophets. As to who appeared before Moses on Mount Sinai, the Bible does say that it was God, but since the Bible also says that no man has seen God (the Father) at any time, it could also mean that (a) either Christ (who is God) appeared to Moses (as He did at the burning bush) or (b) the full glory of God was not seen by Moses (nor by Elijah).
The Bible says NO MAN has seen the Father!
That means we would not even see Him in Visions/Dreams like the Prophets describe or John describes.
So, it would be Impossible to describe the Father when no man has seen Him!
Paul went to Heaven, he does not even describe Him.
No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father.
Only Jesus and the Holy Spirit have ever seen the Father.
That means we would not even see Him in Visions/Dreams like the Prophets describe or John describes.
So, it would be Impossible to describe the Father when no man has seen Him!
Paul went to Heaven, he does not even describe Him.
No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father.
Only Jesus and the Holy Spirit have ever seen the Father.
That is showing a lack of being able to distinguish which member of Trinity is being referred to. God is a spirit is obviously a reference to God Spirit. It isn't a reference to the Father or Son because we know from multiple scriptures that they are not bodiless spirits.
Mormons deny Christ is God and believe a human became God. My biblical based beliefs are not related to Mormonism at all. If you ever falsely accuse me like this again you will be put on ignore. Do you understand that or is this as difficult to read and understand as the scriptures we have been discussing?
Mormons deny Christ is God and believe a human became God. My biblical based beliefs are not related to Mormonism at all. If you ever falsely accuse me like this again you will be put on ignore. Do you understand that or is this as difficult to read and understand as the scriptures we have been discussing?
Actually it does not say that.
John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
This phrase is a figure of speech that simply means no one has fully understood or known God except Jesus and that's because Jesus is God's son.
Clarke:
It is likely that the word seen, here, is put for known, as in Joh_3:32; 1Jo_3:2, 1Jo_3:6, and 3Jo_1:11; and this sense the latter clause of the verse seems to require: - No man, how highly soever favored, hath fully known God, at any time, in any nation or age; the only begotten Son
Many people have seen God:
Gen 32:24 And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day.
Gen 32:25 And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him.
Gen 32:26 And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me.
Gen 32:27 And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob.
Gen 32:28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.
Gen 32:29 And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there.
Gen 32:30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.
Here Jacob not only wrestles with God physically, he also was allowed to see His face and live.
1 Kings 22:19 And he said, Hear thou therefore the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left.
Exo 33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.
Exo 33:21 And the LORD said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock:
Exo 33:22 And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by:
Exo 33:23 And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.
Here we see that he does have a face, has a hand, and has "back parts" of a body. Moses was not allowed to see his face, but he saw his hand and saw his "back parts".
Exo 24:9 Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel:
Exo 24:10 And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness.
Exo 24:11 And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink.
Isa 6:5 And I said: “Woe is me! For I am lost; for I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips; for my eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts!”
Isn't God invisible though?
No.
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God , the firstborn of every creature:
When the Father is close by he can be seen and many scriptures attest to this fact. If he is in heaven and a person is on the Earth, he is "invisible" meaning not able to be visually seen and the same can be said about anything or anyone in heaven. We cannot look up and see heaven, God's throne or the Father. Invisible here simply does not carry the same meaning as it does in modern English like an invisibility cloak or the invisible man who can sneak around without being seen.
Example. My car is invisible to everyone here only because no one knows where it is and are too far away to be able to see it but the car isn't literally invisible.
John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
This phrase is a figure of speech that simply means no one has fully understood or known God except Jesus and that's because Jesus is God's son.
Clarke:
It is likely that the word seen, here, is put for known, as in Joh_3:32; 1Jo_3:2, 1Jo_3:6, and 3Jo_1:11; and this sense the latter clause of the verse seems to require: - No man, how highly soever favored, hath fully known God, at any time, in any nation or age; the only begotten Son
Many people have seen God:
Gen 32:24 And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day.
Gen 32:25 And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him.
Gen 32:26 And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me.
Gen 32:27 And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob.
Gen 32:28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.
Gen 32:29 And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there.
Gen 32:30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.
Here Jacob not only wrestles with God physically, he also was allowed to see His face and live.
1 Kings 22:19 And he said, Hear thou therefore the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left.
Exo 33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.
Exo 33:21 And the LORD said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock:
Exo 33:22 And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by:
Exo 33:23 And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.
Here we see that he does have a face, has a hand, and has "back parts" of a body. Moses was not allowed to see his face, but he saw his hand and saw his "back parts".
Exo 24:9 Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel:
Exo 24:10 And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness.
Exo 24:11 And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink.
Isa 6:5 And I said: “Woe is me! For I am lost; for I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips; for my eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts!”
Isn't God invisible though?
No.
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God , the firstborn of every creature:
When the Father is close by he can be seen and many scriptures attest to this fact. If he is in heaven and a person is on the Earth, he is "invisible" meaning not able to be visually seen and the same can be said about anything or anyone in heaven. We cannot look up and see heaven, God's throne or the Father. Invisible here simply does not carry the same meaning as it does in modern English like an invisibility cloak or the invisible man who can sneak around without being seen.
Example. My car is invisible to everyone here only because no one knows where it is and are too far away to be able to see it but the car isn't literally invisible.
Oh, I see, when we claim Spiritualism or Animorphism we are incorrect, but when claim "Figure of Speech" it's suddenly Gospel.
I have watched you make it up for 4 pages now.
You clearly have no idea what you're even saying!
Jesus, said, no one has seen the Father, but the ONE, sent by God.
You telling me Jesus is joking here?
It says that God is a Spirit; not that, God the Holy Ghost (alone) is a Spirit.
If the Father is God then He is a Spirit; for God is a Spirit.
That is the bottom line.
You appear to believe with the mormons that God the Father has a physical body like a man; not taking into account the reality that scripture teaches that God the Father is a Spirit (John 4:23-24) and therefore any scripture that you think makes Him look like a man is using an anthropomorphism.
If the Father is God then He is a Spirit; for God is a Spirit.
That is the bottom line.
You appear to believe with the mormons that God the Father has a physical body like a man; not taking into account the reality that scripture teaches that God the Father is a Spirit (John 4:23-24) and therefore any scripture that you think makes Him look like a man is using an anthropomorphism.
The Holy Spirit is God so saying "God is a spirit" is speaking of the only member of the Trinity that is a spirit.
lol, that is the same error as "If the Son is God then He is a Spirit; for God is a Spirit."
They have a huge amount of heritical beliefs but they get a few things right. God Father does have a physical body, like his Son does so no huge surprise there. It's not a human body but scripture says he has hands and arms and legs and a head and hair etc etc. They are wrong that the Father used to be human and somehow became God. That isn't found in the bible so maybe it's from their made up bible add-on.
lol, that is the same error as "If the Son is God then He is a Spirit; for God is a Spirit."
They have a huge amount of heritical beliefs but they get a few things right. God Father does have a physical body, like his Son does so no huge surprise there. It's not a human body but scripture says he has hands and arms and legs and a head and hair etc etc. They are wrong that the Father used to be human and somehow became God. That isn't found in the bible so maybe it's from their made up bible add-on.
It's always a weird thing to see someone speak about God and say, "cannot".
The bible doesn't address this in any detail but if the pre-incarnate Christ was seen and interacted with people that tells me he was physical. Someone was seen in the furnace, 4 someone's to be exact. I don't see why the Father or Son would be switching from invisible and spirit to physical and visible so much. I feel the same about angels. They have bodies that look human but they aren't human. There's no scripture anywhere in the bible that shows angels or the Father or Son switching like that.
The bible doesn't address this in any detail but if the pre-incarnate Christ was seen and interacted with people that tells me he was physical. Someone was seen in the furnace, 4 someone's to be exact. I don't see why the Father or Son would be switching from invisible and spirit to physical and visible so much. I feel the same about angels. They have bodies that look human but they aren't human. There's no scripture anywhere in the bible that shows angels or the Father or Son switching like that.
God is a holy Trinity.
When it says that God is a Spirit, it is referring to all of the Trinity.
They are one Spirit / essence; even according to the Trinitarian creeds.
The Son is a Spirit (see Ephesians 3:17, Colossians 1:27, 1 John 5:12); otherwise how is He able to dwell within the heart of a Christian?
When it says that God is a Spirit, it is referring to all of the Trinity.
They are one Spirit / essence; even according to the Trinitarian creeds.
The Son is a Spirit (see Ephesians 3:17, Colossians 1:27, 1 John 5:12); otherwise how is He able to dwell within the heart of a Christian?
Sometimes "God" alone refers to the whole Trinity, but sometimes it refers to only the Son, and times only the Holy Spirit.
Here it cannot be the whole Trinity because the Son is not a spirit. Scripture is just as clear that the Father is also not a spirit.
Clearly that is a figure of speech. spirit of God doesn't need to be in out pumping hearts. Heart is usually meant as mind where our love and feels originate from. He is symbolically there in Christians. Christ is a physical being in a glorified humanoid looking body. He ate human food and could be touched. Something that is pure spirit is not like that at all and that is the nature of Holy Spirit and all spirits.
Here it cannot be the whole Trinity because the Son is not a spirit. Scripture is just as clear that the Father is also not a spirit.
Clearly that is a figure of speech. spirit of God doesn't need to be in out pumping hearts. Heart is usually meant as mind where our love and feels originate from. He is symbolically there in Christians. Christ is a physical being in a glorified humanoid looking body. He ate human food and could be touched. Something that is pure spirit is not like that at all and that is the nature of Holy Spirit and all spirits.