I've bloody never heard of it.
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“If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.”
1 John 1:9-10 KJV
“Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered. Blessed is the man unto whom the Lord imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.
When I kept silence, my bones waxed old through my roaring all the day long. For day and night thy hand was heavy upon me: my moisture is turned into the drought of summer. Selah.
I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord;
and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah.
For this shall every one that is godly pray unto thee in a time when thou mayest be found: surely in the floods of great waters they shall not come nigh unto him.”
Psalm 32:1-6 KJV
if we pretend we’re righteous when we’ve sinned we’re going to bear the guilt later , if we confess and repent of our sins now he cleanses them away like they never happened. If we get real with God he will heal us from our sins
if we confess righteousness when we’re walking in sin we can never come to repentance because we believe God doesn’t recognize when we sin he dies and we need to also to lead us to confess and repent and be washed
if we pretend with God it will crush us in the end but if we get real and don’t hide from him he will cleanse our sins away
If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.”
1 John 1:9-10 KJV
“Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered. Blessed is the man unto whom the Lord imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.
When I kept silence, my bones waxed old through my roaring all the day long. For day and night thy hand was heavy upon me: my moisture is turned into the drought of summer. Selah.
I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord;
and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah.
For this shall every one that is godly pray unto thee in a time when thou mayest be found: surely in the floods of great waters they shall not come nigh unto him.”
Psalm 32:1-6 KJV
if we pretend we’re righteous when we’ve sinned we’re going to bear the guilt later , if we confess and repent of our sins now he cleanses them away like they never happened. If we get real with God he will heal us from our sins
if we confess righteousness when we’re walking in sin we can never come to repentance because we believe God doesn’t recognize when we sin he dies and we need to also to lead us to confess and repent and be washed
if we pretend with God it will crush us in the end but if we get real and don’t hide from him he will cleanse our sins away
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He didn't just open my eyes, but He allowed me to "feel" (in a measurable way) His Almighty Power to the degree that if I had felt more, I would have been physically altered somehow or would have simply died. I can confirm that no one can be in the full presence of the Lord and live. Therefore, when that happened to me, I realized many, many things . . . such as I'd better take the Word of God 100% more seriously.
Thanks for letting me share the thoughts below. I'm not teaching you, per se, as I think that you're already aware of what's to come. I'm a "broken record" regarding my thoughts on the path to Salvation.
I would say that I have a belief that is similar, that the Sin Nature is the motor behind sin (and not the Human Nature). Thus, when the Divine Nature replaced the Sinful Nature, it is that Divine Nature that becomes the new motor for living a Righteous, Pure, and Holy life. It is what it means to be "Controlled by the Spirit."
The way the NLT phrases Paul's "Old Man" is perfect:
Romans 7:5 NLT - "When we were controlled by our old nature, sinful desires were at work within us, and the law aroused these evil desires that produced a harvest of sinful deeds, resulting in death."
Romans 7:17, 20 NLT - 17 "So I am not the one doing wrong; it is sin living in me that does it." ... 20 "But if I do what I don't want to do, I am not really the one doing wrong; it is sin living in me that does it."
Peter confirms that the Divine Nature creates the path of escaping this Nature that causes sin:
2 Peter 1:4 NLT - "And because of his glory and excellence, he has given us great and precious promises. These are the promises that enable you to share his divine nature and escape the world's corruption caused by human desires."
Unfortunately, though the Sinful Nature was the "Old" motor that generated my sin, I was held responsible for it. No, we're NOT free to sin and do whatever we want. That "Old Man" must die so that we would become Pure, Righteous, and Holy by the Imputed Righteousness of Christ.
Colossians 2:13 NLT - "You were dead because of your sins and because your sinful nature was not yet cut away. Then God made you alive with Christ, for he forgave all our sins."
When we sin it's not us, it's the flesh. So a person can sin all they want and simply confess, "I'm not a sinner, my flesh is."
I would say that I have a belief that is similar, that the Sin Nature is the motor behind sin (and not the Human Nature). Thus, when the Divine Nature replaced the Sinful Nature, it is that Divine Nature that becomes the new motor for living a Righteous, Pure, and Holy life. It is what it means to be "Controlled by the Spirit."
The way the NLT phrases Paul's "Old Man" is perfect:
Romans 7:5 NLT - "When we were controlled by our old nature, sinful desires were at work within us, and the law aroused these evil desires that produced a harvest of sinful deeds, resulting in death."
Romans 7:17, 20 NLT - 17 "So I am not the one doing wrong; it is sin living in me that does it." ... 20 "But if I do what I don't want to do, I am not really the one doing wrong; it is sin living in me that does it."
Peter confirms that the Divine Nature creates the path of escaping this Nature that causes sin:
2 Peter 1:4 NLT - "And because of his glory and excellence, he has given us great and precious promises. These are the promises that enable you to share his divine nature and escape the world's corruption caused by human desires."
Unfortunately, though the Sinful Nature was the "Old" motor that generated my sin, I was held responsible for it. No, we're NOT free to sin and do whatever we want. That "Old Man" must die so that we would become Pure, Righteous, and Holy by the Imputed Righteousness of Christ.
Colossians 2:13 NLT - "You were dead because of your sins and because your sinful nature was not yet cut away. Then God made you alive with Christ, for he forgave all our sins."
There's a subtle difference involved here. On the one hand it is the flesh which sins. But the teaching that we bear no responsibility for our sins, that's a problem.
The New Testament teaches that we do bear responsibility and must confess our sins. "Hypergrace" teaches that we can compartmentalize our spirit man on the one hand, and the flesh on the other. In other words we're automatically absolved of all responsibility for sins: past, present and future. If our future sins are already forgiven, what then is the issue with sinning? (I speak as they would)
The New Testament teaches that we do bear responsibility and must confess our sins. "Hypergrace" teaches that we can compartmentalize our spirit man on the one hand, and the flesh on the other. In other words we're automatically absolved of all responsibility for sins: past, present and future. If our future sins are already forgiven, what then is the issue with sinning? (I speak as they would)
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Great post. It's crazy to think that some claim that we bear no responsibility, for we are disciplined by the Lord, hence . . . responsibility. The fact that Holy Discipline takes place denotes accountability.
1 Corinthians 11:32 NLT - "Yet when we are judged by the Lord, we are being disciplined so that we will not be condemned along with the world."
1 Corinthians 11:32 NLT - "Yet when we are judged by the Lord, we are being disciplined so that we will not be condemned along with the world."
Reliance on grace within a "just me and Jesus" environment will bear no fruit. The believer, left to his or her own judgment will not mature. They will most likely continue to do what they see is right in their own eyes.
However, in an environment where elders/pastors watch over the souls of others, knowing that they must give an account to the Lord, grace bears much fruit.
And while it is true we are disciplined by the Lord, correction will most often come through those who are placed by the Lord to do so.
Observe these things in the natural: I knew my children would handle more responsibility as they matured. I often overlooked their negative attitude toward chores and what not as long as they completed them regularly. I knew a day would come when that lesson (a good attitude toward all things) would be important. But for a time, I did not acknowledge their shortcomings. This could only be done with someone watching over their maturity and guiding them to higher ground when they were ready for it.
In my observation, the lack of this structure within the church, the mature in relationship with and watching over the immature, is the main reason for much of our doctrinal wranglings.
However, in an environment where elders/pastors watch over the souls of others, knowing that they must give an account to the Lord, grace bears much fruit.
And while it is true we are disciplined by the Lord, correction will most often come through those who are placed by the Lord to do so.
Observe these things in the natural: I knew my children would handle more responsibility as they matured. I often overlooked their negative attitude toward chores and what not as long as they completed them regularly. I knew a day would come when that lesson (a good attitude toward all things) would be important. But for a time, I did not acknowledge their shortcomings. This could only be done with someone watching over their maturity and guiding them to higher ground when they were ready for it.
In my observation, the lack of this structure within the church, the mature in relationship with and watching over the immature, is the main reason for much of our doctrinal wranglings.
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Sad. As this is the pattern shown in scripture. God will often make concessions in the absence of what is needed.
This is seen with Jesus and His disciples all throughout the gospels.
There are myriad examples in the epistles of this order.
"Obey those who rule over you, and be submissive, for they watch out for your souls, as those who must give account. Let them do so with joy and not with grief, for that would be unprofitable for you."
Paul said, "Which do you prefer? Shall I come to you with a rod, or in love and with a gentle spirit?"
Furthermore, God's economy is structured within the house of God. House is family. We are to understand this structure naturally and then spiritually.
This is seen with Jesus and His disciples all throughout the gospels.
There are myriad examples in the epistles of this order.
"Obey those who rule over you, and be submissive, for they watch out for your souls, as those who must give account. Let them do so with joy and not with grief, for that would be unprofitable for you."
Paul said, "Which do you prefer? Shall I come to you with a rod, or in love and with a gentle spirit?"
Furthermore, God's economy is structured within the house of God. House is family. We are to understand this structure naturally and then spiritually.
Agreed. It [is] sad. But here's why I haven't seen this level of Holy Love . . . in all my years of being involved with today's modern-day "church" I have yet to ever hear of anyone preach or teach Colossians 2:9-15. How is this even possible? For, Col 2:9-15 is the Purpose of Christ, and it is the Work of Christ, and it is Circumcision of the Heart that results in the Effect of Christ.
Many will testify that there isn't a single day that goes by, on this site, that I do not reference Col 2:9-15, for it is the Heart (pun intended) of the entire Bible. There is NO sermon to ever be preached that should not include Col 2:9-15. This is the Heart of the hidden, Mysterious Plan of God, and it remains hidden to this day. And while Paul unpacked this most Holy Doctrine for us, he did so in a way that we must still Ask, Seek, and Knock so that we might receive it. It is plain, yet incredibly, it [is], in fact, Biblically hidden.
So, the reason why those whose faces and noses are in the Bible more than ANYONE else's on the entire planet (hello preachers!) refuse to teach this doctrine, the very Heart of the Gospel, is because of that Effect that I referenced above. If "they" taught Circumcision of the Heart, they'd literally have to preach and teach a different Gospel than the false gospel that they [do] preach. But if we preach and teach the Holy Effect of Christ . . . it changes EVERYTHING. All of a sudden, we'd have to start kicking "members" out of churches because they refused to stop "sleeping with their step-mothers" so to speak. But because "they" do not teach the Effect of Christ, men and women can remain active in their sex and porn addictions, alcoholism, spousal and child abuse . . . whatever . . . it's all good and no one is to be punished. As long as we do not preach and teach being "Controlled by the Spirit" . . . continual, repetitive, habitual sin has no bearing upon:
1) Circumcision of the Heart
2) Repentance
3) The Gift of the Holy Spirit
4) The debt paid by Christ on the Cross
Today's preachers are corrupt . . . nearly all of them. I pray that the Lord might one day allow me to speak to one that preaches the Truth. John MacArthur . . . no COTH. RC Sproul . . . no COTH. Swindal . . . same. Charles Stanley. Gary Habermas. The Bible Answerman. I could go on and on . . .
Many will testify that there isn't a single day that goes by, on this site, that I do not reference Col 2:9-15, for it is the Heart (pun intended) of the entire Bible. There is NO sermon to ever be preached that should not include Col 2:9-15. This is the Heart of the hidden, Mysterious Plan of God, and it remains hidden to this day. And while Paul unpacked this most Holy Doctrine for us, he did so in a way that we must still Ask, Seek, and Knock so that we might receive it. It is plain, yet incredibly, it [is], in fact, Biblically hidden.
So, the reason why those whose faces and noses are in the Bible more than ANYONE else's on the entire planet (hello preachers!) refuse to teach this doctrine, the very Heart of the Gospel, is because of that Effect that I referenced above. If "they" taught Circumcision of the Heart, they'd literally have to preach and teach a different Gospel than the false gospel that they [do] preach. But if we preach and teach the Holy Effect of Christ . . . it changes EVERYTHING. All of a sudden, we'd have to start kicking "members" out of churches because they refused to stop "sleeping with their step-mothers" so to speak. But because "they" do not teach the Effect of Christ, men and women can remain active in their sex and porn addictions, alcoholism, spousal and child abuse . . . whatever . . . it's all good and no one is to be punished. As long as we do not preach and teach being "Controlled by the Spirit" . . . continual, repetitive, habitual sin has no bearing upon:
1) Circumcision of the Heart
2) Repentance
3) The Gift of the Holy Spirit
4) The debt paid by Christ on the Cross
Today's preachers are corrupt . . . nearly all of them. I pray that the Lord might one day allow me to speak to one that preaches the Truth. John MacArthur . . . no COTH. RC Sproul . . . no COTH. Swindal . . . same. Charles Stanley. Gary Habermas. The Bible Answerman. I could go on and on . . .
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More than likely, He will make you into the truth you preach. Organizations distribute pamphlets. The Living God distributes sons: this is My Son, in whom I am well pleased.
The church's addiction to self-rule and anonymity make it nearly impossible for the doctrine of being fit together by the Holy Spirit (baptism by the Spirit) to be received. But there are some who love the Truth enough to be led out of the institution.
The church's addiction to self-rule and anonymity make it nearly impossible for the doctrine of being fit together by the Holy Spirit (baptism by the Spirit) to be received. But there are some who love the Truth enough to be led out of the institution.
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Incredibly, I have made myself totally available to God; to be used by Him 100% as He pleases, but to date . . . He has not created a path for His Truth to be heard. Every pastor that I've written to . . . scatter like flies in tornados. I've even had 1 pastor laugh and scoff at me as I showed him the Circumcision of Christ. That Baptist "pastor" outright rejected the Circumcision of Christ and counter directed me to believe that Colossians 2:9-15 was about physical circumcision. No . . . the "Two-Elevens" is unlikely an accident. Ephesians 2:11 outlines the circumcision made by hands whereas Colossians 2:11 outlines the Circumcision made "without" hands.
Deut 30:6 says that God will Circumcise our hearts.
Romans 2:29 says that the Spirit will Circumcise our hearts.
Colossians 2:11 & 13 state that Christ will Circumcise our hearts.
When the three members of the Trinity take full responsibility for such a Right-Hand action . . . we need to submit to the incredible teaching.
Respect to you, Aaron.
Deut 30:6 says that God will Circumcise our hearts.
Romans 2:29 says that the Spirit will Circumcise our hearts.
Colossians 2:11 & 13 state that Christ will Circumcise our hearts.
When the three members of the Trinity take full responsibility for such a Right-Hand action . . . we need to submit to the incredible teaching.
Respect to you, Aaron.
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The Hyper Grace Movement is just one other gimmick Theology -----there are many gimmick Theologies being preached today ------I believe and agree with one poster who said most of the ministers today are corrupt ---- Preachers of Satan not God I say ----
No Minister should be allowed to get into a Seminary College unless they are Born Again and have been called BY GOD to be in His Ministry -------anyone can go on line now and get a licence to become a Minister ----
GOD FORBID --you even get a cards to give out and a Bumper sticker ----WOW ---and they are allowed to believe they are Holy -----and Preach their crap to others -----
https://www.missionarychapel.com/?g...12CFY7D7t7GYqZxoOSktirb1TMnc6H64aAnogEALw_wcB
MINISTER'S LICENSE
Perform weddings, baptisms and other religious ceremonies today! You can be legally ordained in minutes, absolutely free. Print your attractive and official Letter of Good Standing from the site, order your license certificate from us, or get the complete minister's package. The minister's package includes: Minister's License Certificate on cotton bond paper with gold foil seal, three Letters of Good Standing, three Minister's I.D. Cards, five Marriage Certificates on specialty linen paper and vinyl Minister Bumper Sticker for your automobile.
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I say -----
But here is the real Discussing thing ----Don't know if you have ever heard of a Minister called
Gretta Vosper ---
A minister in Canada who is a self professed atheist and had a hearing on if she was allowed to preach in the Unitedited Church of Canada and won her case ------
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gretta_Vosper#:~:text=Margaret Ann Vosper (born 1958,outside of the
Margaret Ann Vosper (born 1958), known as Gretta Vosper, is an ordained minister of the United Church of Canada who is a self-professed atheist. Her beliefs have caused controversy both within and outside of the United Church.
Ministry
Vosper worked for two years as a junior minister at United Church in Kingston before she and Kooiman moved to Toronto in 1993 as team ministers at St. Matthew's United Church.[2]
In 1997, Vosper became the minister of West Hill United Church[4] in Toronto. Over the next few years, she became increasingly aware that her views on God were changing, and she was becoming uncomfortable using traditional United Church liturgy. Her marriage to Kooiman ended as their theological views diverged.[2]
In 2001, she told her congregation that she was a non-theist – although she believed in God as a concept, she no longer believed in God as a supernatural being who intervened in the affairs of humanity.[2] Although she expected to be fired, her congregation supported her, although regular attendance declined from 150 to 40, especially after the Lord's Prayer was removed from the liturgy in 2003.[3]
During her "non-theist" phase, Vosper was supported by leaders of the United Church. In 2011, Mardi Tindal, at the time United Church moderator, told a Toronto newspaper, "I celebrate Gretta and others like her who cause us to think more deeply about the nature of our faith. What Gretta has done has ignited a fresh conversation and invigorated the discussion.
Atheist United Church minister to keep her job at Toronto
Nov 9, 2018 — TORONTO – A United Church minister who had faced an unprecedented ecclesiastical court hearing over her professed atheism is no longer in danger of a defrocking after the two sides reached an agreement in the long-running case.
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I say ------so this Just shows you how Corrupt the Religious organizations are ------allowing an atheist to preach in what is suppose to be God's Church ----How bazaar is that -----
She is allowed to send people straight to hell and that is OK by the main stream Church ------
So Hyper Grace theology is just one other twisted theology amongst many being allowed to be preached ------
That is why it is so important for True Christ-ians ---to know their scriptures and ask the Holy Spirit for discernment when going to your Church ----if the preacher is preaching what goes against Scripture ----you want to do what Forest Gump said -- Run--Forest --Run
No Minister should be allowed to get into a Seminary College unless they are Born Again and have been called BY GOD to be in His Ministry -------anyone can go on line now and get a licence to become a Minister ----
GOD FORBID --you even get a cards to give out and a Bumper sticker ----WOW ---and they are allowed to believe they are Holy -----and Preach their crap to others -----
https://www.missionarychapel.com/?g...12CFY7D7t7GYqZxoOSktirb1TMnc6H64aAnogEALw_wcB
MINISTER'S LICENSE
Perform weddings, baptisms and other religious ceremonies today! You can be legally ordained in minutes, absolutely free. Print your attractive and official Letter of Good Standing from the site, order your license certificate from us, or get the complete minister's package. The minister's package includes: Minister's License Certificate on cotton bond paper with gold foil seal, three Letters of Good Standing, three Minister's I.D. Cards, five Marriage Certificates on specialty linen paper and vinyl Minister Bumper Sticker for your automobile.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I say -----
But here is the real Discussing thing ----Don't know if you have ever heard of a Minister called
Gretta Vosper ---
A minister in Canada who is a self professed atheist and had a hearing on if she was allowed to preach in the Unitedited Church of Canada and won her case ------
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gretta_Vosper#:~:text=Margaret Ann Vosper (born 1958,outside of the
Margaret Ann Vosper (born 1958), known as Gretta Vosper, is an ordained minister of the United Church of Canada who is a self-professed atheist. Her beliefs have caused controversy both within and outside of the United Church.
Ministry
Vosper worked for two years as a junior minister at United Church in Kingston before she and Kooiman moved to Toronto in 1993 as team ministers at St. Matthew's United Church.[2]
In 1997, Vosper became the minister of West Hill United Church[4] in Toronto. Over the next few years, she became increasingly aware that her views on God were changing, and she was becoming uncomfortable using traditional United Church liturgy. Her marriage to Kooiman ended as their theological views diverged.[2]
In 2001, she told her congregation that she was a non-theist – although she believed in God as a concept, she no longer believed in God as a supernatural being who intervened in the affairs of humanity.[2] Although she expected to be fired, her congregation supported her, although regular attendance declined from 150 to 40, especially after the Lord's Prayer was removed from the liturgy in 2003.[3]
During her "non-theist" phase, Vosper was supported by leaders of the United Church. In 2011, Mardi Tindal, at the time United Church moderator, told a Toronto newspaper, "I celebrate Gretta and others like her who cause us to think more deeply about the nature of our faith. What Gretta has done has ignited a fresh conversation and invigorated the discussion.
Atheist United Church minister to keep her job at Toronto
Nov 9, 2018 — TORONTO – A United Church minister who had faced an unprecedented ecclesiastical court hearing over her professed atheism is no longer in danger of a defrocking after the two sides reached an agreement in the long-running case.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I say ------so this Just shows you how Corrupt the Religious organizations are ------allowing an atheist to preach in what is suppose to be God's Church ----How bazaar is that -----
She is allowed to send people straight to hell and that is OK by the main stream Church ------
So Hyper Grace theology is just one other twisted theology amongst many being allowed to be preached ------
That is why it is so important for True Christ-ians ---to know their scriptures and ask the Holy Spirit for discernment when going to your Church ----if the preacher is preaching what goes against Scripture ----you want to do what Forest Gump said -- Run--Forest --Run
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I was wondering what it was
It seemed to me false teachers brought it in cos they were too lazy to bother baptising people or discipling.
Im a natural independent learner but I imagine that many arent and are confused when they first go into churches and try and figure out what is actually taught there. You get the feeling that some churches dont actually care for the state of your soul but are really only after your wallet.
It seemed to me false teachers brought it in cos they were too lazy to bother baptising people or discipling.
Im a natural independent learner but I imagine that many arent and are confused when they first go into churches and try and figure out what is actually taught there. You get the feeling that some churches dont actually care for the state of your soul but are really only after your wallet.
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I'm a broken record on this following subject, but a person can know that they are in a rightly church if the preacher teaches Spiritual Circumcision, for, it is the Heart of the Gospel and nearly all aspects of the Bible hinge upon this teaching.
Colossians 2:11-13 NKJV - "In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with [Him] through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses . . ."
I think it's ok to attend a church that DOES NOT teach Spiritual Circumcision, but at that point, the objective needs to be this: To infiltrate that church and slowly work your way into relationships where the Truth can be made known. In essence, "you" would become the hidden leader of that church, doing all that you can to "save some," as Paul would often say.
Colossians 2:11-13 NKJV - "In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with [Him] through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses . . ."
I think it's ok to attend a church that DOES NOT teach Spiritual Circumcision, but at that point, the objective needs to be this: To infiltrate that church and slowly work your way into relationships where the Truth can be made known. In essence, "you" would become the hidden leader of that church, doing all that you can to "save some," as Paul would often say.