Interpreting the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus: It's Really Good News!

[TheLearner]

Sure, while it is alive and exists...because the soul is the "I" the "ego" the "self" the "person"...the WHOLE BEING comprised of its two parts, the Body and the Breath of Life.

At death, the Spirit returns to God as it was when it left, the Body returns to the dust, and the Soul ceases to be, according to Genesis 2:7 KJV.

I think Paul spoke of three parts somewhere, forget where and don't have time to look it up.

"With this in mind, is humanity dichotomous (“cut in two”) or trichotomous (“cut in three”)? In other words, do we have two parts (body and soul-spirit), or do we have three parts (body, soul, and spirit)? It is impossible to be dogmatic. Theologians have differed over this issue for centuries, and there has never been a decisive orthodox declaration of which is true. " https://www.gotquestions.org/body-soul-spirit.html

"

• Scripture clearly teaches trichotomy: (1) 1 Thessalonians 5:23; (2) Hebrews 4:12; (3) 1 Corinthians 3:14 – 3:4; and (4) 1 Corinthians 14:14

" https://biblearchive.com/blog/man-as-body-soul-spirit-or-trichotomy/

https://bible.org/seriespage/2-man-trinity-spirit-soul-body

Basically, Scripture is progressive revelation. In Genesis Man was body and soul. In the N.T. three parts of man.

 

[TheLearner]

I'm not dishonest.

In 2006 I was pulling down $10,000/month putting in crazy hurricane restoration OT, but when forced to work on Sabbath, I refused and got fired.

Having won a precedent setting arbitration case by God's grace and was rehired, recently, I was pulling down $18,000/month working the same crazy hurricane restoration OT, but passing up $1200 Saturdays because I wanted to "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy."

Why would I sacrifice so much to keep the Fourth Commandment, then climb on CC and willfully break the Ninth Commandment?

If you can't discuss spiritual propositions without attacking one's character, you prove yourself to be spiritually immature and have no business in a Bible discussion chat room. Please, let's all be agreeable as we disagree, OK?

I apologize. And, thanks for showing I am right by attacking me friend.

Are you saying Doctors and Nurses should not work on Saturday? when they are needed? How about Police? How about Pastors? How about those who drive people to the Hospital? Do you drive on the Sabbath? Those defending their country in War? Was Jesus wrong to heal on the Sabbath? Do you turn off your furnace? Cook? We both know he was not wrong. How about the 613 Torah laws, do you keep all of them? Did not someone say, if you break one law you are guilty of breaking them all?

"You shall kindle no fire throughout your habitations on the sabbath day. "

A Motor vehicle is a temporary habitation and many engines use fire.

 

[TheLearner]

Yes, it is speaking of Christians...but if we look at Romans 2:7-9 KJV, we discover that while the righteous who "seek" immortality will eventually be granted it, the wicked who do not seek it do not get it.

That's why John said, "Whosever hateth his brother is a murderer...AND YE KNOW THAT NO MURDERER HATH ETERNAL LIFE ABIDING IN HIM."

Q. How can there be a never-ending hell if there is no never-ending murderer?
A. It can't be -- "...for the former things are passed away."

We have a general resurrection and judgement in Matthew 25. Thus all who are raised get the same kind of body described in I cor 15.

Matthew 25:31-46
Easy-to-Read Version
The Son of Man Will Judge All People
31 “The Son of Man will come again with divine greatness, and all his angels will come with him. He will sit as king on his great and glorious throne. 32 All the people of the world will be gathered before him. Then he will separate everyone into two groups. It will be like a shepherd separating his sheep from his goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34 “Then the king will say to the godly people on his right, ‘Come, my Father has great blessings for you. The kingdom he promised is now yours. It has been prepared for you since the world was made. 35 It is yours because when I was hungry, you gave me food to eat. When I was thirsty, you gave me something to drink. When I had no place to stay, you welcomed me into your home. 36 When I was without clothes, you gave me something to wear. When I was sick, you cared for me. When I was in prison, you came to visit me.’

37 “Then the godly people will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and give you food? When did we see you thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you with no place to stay and welcome you into our home? When did we see you without clothes and give you something to wear? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and care for you?’

40 “Then the king will answer, ‘The truth is, anything you did for any of my people here,[a] you also did for me.’

41 “Then the king will say to the evil people on his left, ‘Get away from me. God has already decided that you will be punished. Go into the fire that burns forever—the fire that was prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 You must go away because when I was hungry, you gave me nothing to eat. When I was thirsty, you gave me nothing to drink. 43 When I had no place to stay, you did not welcome me into your home. When I was without clothes, you gave me nothing to wear. When I was sick and in prison, you did not care for me.’

44 “Then those people will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty? When did we see you without a place to stay? Or when did we see you without clothes or sick or in prison? When did we see any of this and not help you?’

45 “The king will answer, ‘The truth is, anything you refused to do for any of my people here, you refused to do for me.’

46 “Then these evil people will go away to be punished forever. But the godly people will go and enjoy eternal life.”

 

[TheLearner]

Are we just going to ignore what is clearly and contextually symbolism?

Do fir trees and cedar trees rejoice?
Do they know whether the lumberjack is on the job or not?
Can the dead actually talk?
The smartest man who ever lived says plainly, "no".

The Immortal Soul crowd talks out of both sides of its mouth. They claim martyrs go straight to heaven and "be present with the Lord" .... but then they claim they're trapped under some earthly altar crying out for vengeance.
WHICH IS IT?

You see, this is what I mean by the Immortal Soul/Eternal Torment crowd always resorting to making literal what should be immediately understood as symbolic in order to establish their position.

Symbolic or literal, the language still teaches that the dead are aware, alive and sleep like we do on earth.

 

[TheLearner]

.



Do you honestly believe that God would actually be content associating with
people forever all the while their inner man is corruptible-- that part of them
that's hostile towards God, not subject to the law of God; neither indeed
can be?

I'm looking forward to taking full possession of an incorruptible body same
as you, but I'm also looking forward to obtaining full possession of the
incorruptible inner man spoken of by 2Pet 1:3-4.

I've yet to find an example of Jesus speaking of the divine nature with the
exact same two words found in Peter's epistle. rather, Jesus spoke of it as
eternal life, which is the very same thing as divine nature; only by a
different name.

The best thing is: human life is corruptible, whereas eternal life isn't
because it's the life in God. Whereas human life has an intrinsic preference
for evil; the life in God has an intrinsic preference for just the opposite.

I have no clue how God performs this rather unusual miracle, but He is able
to remove their natural life and furnish folks with His life so that there will
never again be any more friction between Himself and them: only harmony.
In my judicious estimation, this particular element of the plan of salvation is
the icing on the cake, the bees knees, and the cat's meow all rolled into one.
_

Matthew 25:31-46
Easy-to-Read Version
The Son of Man Will Judge All People
31 “The Son of Man will come again with divine greatness, and all his angels will come with him. He will sit as king on his great and glorious throne. 32 All the people of the world will be gathered before him. Then he will separate everyone into two groups. It will be like a shepherd separating his sheep from his goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34 “Then the king will say to the godly people on his right, ‘Come, my Father has great blessings for you. The kingdom he promised is now yours. It has been prepared for you since the world was made. 35 It is yours because when I was hungry, you gave me food to eat. When I was thirsty, you gave me something to drink. When I had no place to stay, you welcomed me into your home. 36 When I was without clothes, you gave me something to wear. When I was sick, you cared for me. When I was in prison, you came to visit me.’

37 “Then the godly people will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and give you food? When did we see you thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you with no place to stay and welcome you into our home? When did we see you without clothes and give you something to wear? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and care for you?’

40 “Then the king will answer, ‘The truth is, anything you did for any of my people here,[a] you also did for me.’

41 “Then the king will say to the evil people on his left, ‘Get away from me. God has already decided that you will be punished. Go into the fire that burns forever—the fire that was prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 You must go away because when I was hungry, you gave me nothing to eat. When I was thirsty, you gave me nothing to drink. 43 When I had no place to stay, you did not welcome me into your home. When I was without clothes, you gave me nothing to wear. When I was sick and in prison, you did not care for me.’

44 “Then those people will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty? When did we see you without a place to stay? Or when did we see you without clothes or sick or in prison? When did we see any of this and not help you?’

45 “The king will answer, ‘The truth is, anything you refused to do for any of my people here, you refused to do for me.’

46 “Then these evil people will go away to be punished forever. But the godly people will go and enjoy eternal life.”

 

[TheLearner]

Psalms 91, which is clearly referring to the coming of our Lord, when the wicked are rewarded with death and the righteous rewarded with "long life" eternal and salvation from the Second Death.

Ah, No the text is not about the Second Coming.

Psalm 91
Easy-to-Read Version
91 You can go to God Most High to hide.
You can go to God All-Powerful for protection.
2 I say to the Lord, “You are my place of safety, my fortress.
My God, I trust in you.”
3 God will save you from hidden dangers
and from deadly diseases.
4 You can go to him for protection.
He will cover you like a bird spreading its wings over its babies.
You can trust him to surround and protect you like a shield.
5 You will have nothing to fear at night
and no need to be afraid of enemy arrows during the day.
6 You will have no fear of diseases that come in the dark
or terrible suffering that comes at noon.
7 A thousand people may fall dead at your side
or ten thousand right beside you,
but nothing bad will happen to you!
8 All you will have to do is watch,
and you will see that the wicked are punished.
9 You trust in the Lord for protection.
You have made God Most High your place of safety.
10 So nothing bad will happen to you.
No diseases will come near your home.
11 He will command his angels to protect you wherever you go.
12 Their hands will catch you
so that you will not hit your foot on a rock.
13 You will have power to trample on lions
and poisonous snakes.
14 The Lord says, “If someone trusts me, I will save them.
I will protect my followers who call to me for help.
15 When my followers call to me, I will answer them.
I will be with them when they are in trouble.
I will rescue them and honor them.
16 I will give my followers a long life
and show them my power to save.”

Psalm 90

 

[TheLearner]

A tattoo of a battleship across his chest would stretch from California to Arkansas LOL

 

[TheLearner]

There is nothing in all the Bible to corroborate the claim that "Abraham's Bosom" is a geolocation. You're basing your interpretation purely on an assumption. Also, if Jesus is being "figurative" in the passage, that means the passage is not literal. Can it be both literal and figurative at the same time? Or course not.

"In the New Testament and in Jewish writings a term signifying the abodeof bliss in the other world. According to IV Macc. xiii. 17, the righteous who die for their faith are received by Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in paradise (compare Matt. viii. 11: "Many shall come from the east and the west and sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven"). In Ḳid. 72b, Adda bar Ahaba, a rabbi of the third century, is said to be "sitting in the bosom of Abraham," which means that he has entered paradise. With this should be compared the statement of R. Levi (Gen. R. xlviii.): "In the world to come Abraham sits at the gate of Gehenna, permitting none to enter who bears the seal of the covenant" "
https://jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/362-abraham-s-bosom

 

[TheLearner]

Yes I STRONGLY agree with Jesus. Luke 16 is literal as are Abraham, Moses and Lazarus!

Also the author of that gospel did not say it was a parable as was done for when Jesus gave a parable.

 

[TheLearner]

Consider the 1 Cor 15
No, the spiritual body is not immortal as it is dependent of the One that giveth. We will die as any other animal and be resurrected contingent of the Judgement of God. The bible clearly states this.

Consider eternal punishment
How many times has "eternal punishment" be used in the NT? I will answer for you. Once and only by Matthew. If the premises are
1) eternal punishment was referenced - (it was used only once - there can be no other correlation)
2) the spiritual body is immortal - (It is in conflict with other verses - 1 Timothy 6:16 for one)

All the premises are disagreeable. The doctrine of hell seems to have a lot of occult threads.
Consider "eternal punishment" is the literary device "contrast". See below.

Paraphrasing
Christians with the mark, followers who fear the world rather than love God.
Matt 25:41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Reason and excuse of the hypocrites.
42For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Rejecting the doctrine of hell which asks you to fear hell more than God is actually a little thing.

Literary device contrast - contrast punishment = reward , contrast life = death. Reward is life eternal , eternal punishment = death
45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Death is needed to be resurrected.
1 Cor 15:35But someone will ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?” 36You fool! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 37And what you sow is not the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or something else. 38But God gives it a body as He has designed, and to each kind of seed He gives its own body.

Adam was made. Jesus grants the Spirit
1 Cor 15:45And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Why was Adam flesh and Jesus Spirit?
46Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

The first was of this earth. Jesus is from heaven.
47The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

What is flesh flesh, the spirit spirit
48As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

We are animal but we have the representation of His nature. We are not immortals. Do not worship the image of self, as it is idolatrous.
49And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

You are out of this world friend.


1 Corinthians 15:53-54
New Revised Standard Version, Anglicised Catholic Edition
53 For this perishable body must put on imperishability, and this mortal body must put on immortality. 54 When this perishable body puts on imperishability, and this mortal body puts on immortality, then the saying that is written will be fulfilled:

‘Death has been swallowed up in victory.’

 

[TheLearner]

Consider the 1 Cor 15
No, the spiritual body is not immortal as it is dependent of the One that giveth. We will die as any other animal and be resurrected contingent of the Judgement of God. The bible clearly states this.

Consider eternal punishment
How many times has "eternal punishment" be used in the NT? I will answer for you. Once and only by Matthew. If the premises are
1) eternal punishment was referenced - (it was used only once - there can be no other correlation)
2) the spiritual body is immortal - (It is in conflict with other verses - 1 Timothy 6:16 for one)

All the premises are disagreeable. The doctrine of hell seems to have a lot of occult threads.
Consider "eternal punishment" is the literary device "contrast". See below.

Paraphrasing
Christians with the mark, followers who fear the world rather than love God.
Matt 25:41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Reason and excuse of the hypocrites.
42For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Rejecting the doctrine of hell which asks you to fear hell more than God is actually a little thing.

Literary device contrast - contrast punishment = reward , contrast life = death. Reward is life eternal , eternal punishment = death
45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Death is needed to be resurrected.
1 Cor 15:35But someone will ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?” 36You fool! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 37And what you sow is not the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or something else. 38But God gives it a body as He has designed, and to each kind of seed He gives its own body.

Adam was made. Jesus grants the Spirit
1 Cor 15:45And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Why was Adam flesh and Jesus Spirit?
46Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

The first was of this earth. Jesus is from heaven.
47The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

What is flesh flesh, the spirit spirit
48As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

We are animal but we have the representation of His nature. We are not immortals. Do not worship the image of self, as it is idolatrous.
49And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

1 Corinthians 15:53-54
New Revised Standard Version, Anglicised Catholic Edition
53 For this perishable body must put on imperishability, and this mortal body must put on immortality. 54 When this perishable body puts on imperishability, and this mortal body puts on immortality, then the saying that is written will be fulfilled:

‘Death has been swallowed up in victory.’

 

[TheLearner]

Talkers to the dead spirits anyone?
Deuteronomy 18:9When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations.
>>> paraphrase "the Wisdom of God, don't mix it up with pagan dung"

Deuteronomy 18:10There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,
>>> paraphrase "what they did in the valley of hinnon, was occult dung"

Deuteronomy 18:11Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.
>>> paraphrase "spirits of the dead can talk - not"

Deuteronomy 18:12For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.
>>> paraphrase "you are Commanded to drive these teachings from your midst"

Deuteronomy 18:13Thou shalt be perfect with the LORD thy God.
>>> paraphrase "be sinless"

Deuteronomy 18:14For these nations, which thou shalt possess, hearkened unto observers of times, and unto diviners: but as for thee, the LORD thy God hath not suffered thee so to do.
>>> paraphrase "it is Commanded, don't believe in the god of this world, or Else"

 

[TheLearner]

read to here.

 

[Amanuensis]

As good an explaination as any.
It is just saying they are with abraham in paradise.
" welcomed in love" ...and embrace

I have read that the whole "bosom" phrase, whether it was Abraham's Bosom, or John leaning on Jesus Bosom had to do with their place at the table.

They reclined at feast tables. Leaning on one elbow and eating with the other arm. They were on their sides and the person nearest your chest was at your bosom. But specifically in the seating arrangements around the table the one nearest the host in that position called "bosom" of the host would have the most important seat at the table.

The beggar being in Abrahams Bosom would be stating that he was at a feast. And had the best seat, at Abrahams bosom. And there is probably some truth to it being symbolic rather than literal, meant to say that these are the kinds of blessing that await the righteous but what they literally look like no one is going to know yet because they are heavenly and Jesus could only explain them using earthly references such as this picture of being a feast and having the best seat.

And so the flames are tormenting the wicked and he can't have his thirst quenched but what exactly that is we don't know only that it describing it this way should get the idea across to our limited earthly point of reference minds. What hell and heaven is really like we cannot know yet and that is why I don't believe any of the people who say they have seen it and tell us about fields of flowers and what not. They may have had a vision where God was trying to explain something to their limited minds using earthly points of reference but they did not go to heaven.

 

[Phoneman-777]

Low heat? Tell that to the rich man.

"The rich man also died"
"being in torments"
"he cried"
"I am tormented in this flame"
"this place of torment"

YOUR Hell is not Biblical. "Eternal", "everlasting", and "forever and ever" is the Biblical Hell fire. You don't know those are all in the NT?

No man can cry "I am in torment in this flame" if he's on fire. All you will hear is him shrieking in unspeakable pain until he's no longer conscious.

It's...a...parable.

 

[Phoneman-777]

Yes I STRONGLY agree with Jesus. Luke 16 is literal as are Abraham, Moses and Lazarus!

The "Immortal Soul/Eternal Torment" doesn't seem to be bothered in the least with making Jesus talk out of both sides of His mouth by making the Rich Man and Lazarus a literal account of three dead guys.

 

[Phoneman-777]

"Abraham's bosom" is the name of a section of Hades (Sheol).
The Bible tells us where Sheol/Hades is located:

“As he finished speaking all these words, the ground that was under them split open; and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed them up, and their households, and all the men who belonged to Korah with their possessions. So they and all that belonged to them went down alive to Sheol; and the earth closed over them, and they perished from the midst of the assembly.” (Numbers 16:31–33)

“Let death come deceitfully upon them; Let them go down alive to Sheol, For evil is in their dwelling, in their midst.” (Psalm 55:15)

“Let us swallow them alive like Sheol, Even whole, as those who go down to the pit;” (Proverbs 1:12)

“Sheol from beneath is excited over you to meet you when you come; It arouses for you the spirits of the dead, all the leaders of the earth; It raises all the kings of the nations from their thrones...Nevertheless, you will be thrust down to Sheol, To the recesses of the pit...Those who see you will gaze at you, They will ponder over you, saying, ‘Is this the man who made the earth tremble, Who shook kingdoms,” (Isaiah 14:16)

““Son of man, wail for the hordes of Egypt and bring it down, her and the daughters of the powerful nations, to the nether world, with those who go down to the pit;” (Ezekiel 32:18)

““I made the nations quake at the sound of its fall when I made it go down to Sheol with those who go down to the pit; and all the well-watered trees of Eden, the choicest and best of Lebanon, were comforted in the earth beneath.” (Ezekiel 31:16)

“then I will bring you down with those who go down to the pit, to the people of old, and I will make you dwell in the lower parts of the earth, like the ancient waste places, with those who go down to the pit, so that you will not be inhabited; but I will set glory in the land of the living.” (Ezekiel 26:20)

“When He ascended on high, He led a host of captives, and He gave gifts to men.' (Now this expression, “He ascended,” what does it mean except that He also had descended into the lower parts of the earth?” (Ephesians 4:8–9)


Sheol/Hades is down inside the depths of the earth. It is where the spirits of mankind wait for judgment. The righteous went to Abrahams' bosom (also called "Paradise") to wait for their sins to be judged on the cross of Jesus. The wicked still go to the torment side (across the great gulf) to wait for their sins to be judged (before God's throne- Rev 20). They can see each other and talk to each other. As disembodied spirits, they are quite "alive". That is why one of my references say, "Let them go down alive to Sheol".

Can't seem to find the verse where the inner Earth is called "Abraham's Bosom".

BTW, Paradise is UP, not DOWN. Would you like me to provide the verses?

 

[KrisWampler]

No man can cry "I am in torment in this flame" if he's on fire. All you will hear is him shrieking in unspeakable pain until he's no longer conscious.

It's...a...parable.

Are you sure? Some people have composure even while on fire. Remember that monk who set himself on fire to protest the Vietnam War? Homebody didn't even cry out.

 

[Amanuensis]

I think Paul spoke of three parts somewhere, forget where and don't have time to look it up.

"With this in mind, is humanity dichotomous (“cut in two”) or trichotomous (“cut in three”)? In other words, do we have two parts (body and soul-spirit), or do we have three parts (body, soul, and spirit)? It is impossible to be dogmatic. Theologians have differed over this issue for centuries, and there has never been a decisive orthodox declaration of which is true. " https://www.gotquestions.org/body-soul-spirit.html

"

• Scripture clearly teaches trichotomy: (1) 1 Thessalonians 5:23; (2) Hebrews 4:12; (3) 1 Corinthians 3:14 – 3:4; and (4) 1 Corinthians 14:14

" https://biblearchive.com/blog/man-as-body-soul-spirit-or-trichotomy/

https://bible.org/seriespage/2-man-trinity-spirit-soul-body

Basically, Scripture is progressive revelation. In Genesis Man was body and soul. In the N.T. three parts of man.

I lean toward dichotomous. Wayne Grudem has a good paper on this.
https://truthstory.org/blog/the-essential-nature-of-man-chapter-23/

Bottom line two many scriptures use spirit and soul interchangeably and the two most common NT verses to support trichotomy 1 Thess 5:23, and Heb 4:12 can be explained as the common method in Hebrew literature of repetition.

I think too much has been taught using those verses that those verses don't say nor were intended to suggest. Whole books have been written explaining the division of Soul, Spirit and Body that is mere speculation and many who believe in trichotomous nature of man explain it completely differently from one another.

None of them agree. They all are making it up. Defining the Soul as the intellect, and the Spirit as that which communicates with God or some other such nonsense. I have found so much confusion being taught from modern day teachers on Spirit, Soul and Body I knew something was wrong and diving into the scriptures I came away the same view as Wayne Grudem, before I had read Wayne Grudem's exegesis on these verses.

https://truthstory.org/blog/the-essential-nature-of-man-chapter-23/

 

[Phoneman-777]

According to the book of Revelation, "And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever..."

Also, if a Hebrew slave chooses not to leave after his master dismisses him, he can opt to "remain his slave forever" which means he'll be slaving away for his master in heaven, right?

"Forever" (Gr. "Aionios") means "duration - either undefined BUT NOT ENDLESS, or undefined because endless".

All scholars agree when "forever" is applied to the affairs of God it means "eternity", but when applied to the affairs of men, it usually means "all the days of life".

Do you church pastors ever mention that? Do the pastors you listen to on the TV and radio ever mention that? OF COURSE NOT. They know how lucrative FEARMONGERING can be, and nothing fills the church coffers faster than Christians who want nothing to do with obedience to God's commandments desperately trying to buy ecclesiastical fire insurance.