E
Remember that all scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable in doctrine (2Tim 3:16)... There just may be more than one type of fire being referred to in (Mt 3 & Lk 3).
Also, if your definition above in (red) is what you base your understanding upon, then explain what is meant in the following passage...
1Cor 10:1-4 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant , how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them : and that Rock was Christ.
Were the children of Israel (fathers), that were with Moses, who passed under the cloud and through the Red Sea, all (baptised with or placed into) Moses? What does that mean and how did that happen and does (v.3,4) give us some understanding of what it means? The cloud and fire was given before the law and continued after the law was given according to (Ex 13:21,22, and Ex 40:34-38)...
1Cor 10:1-4 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant , how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them : and that Rock was Christ.
Were the children of Israel (fathers), that were with Moses, who passed under the cloud and through the Red Sea, all (baptised with or placed into) Moses? What does that mean and how did that happen and does (v.3,4) give us some understanding of what it means? The cloud and fire was given before the law and continued after the law was given according to (Ex 13:21,22, and Ex 40:34-38)...
We are part of the body of Christ. Placed into that body (baptized) by the HS. Christ is the head of that body.l so we are said to be in Christ. because he is the head. God put all of Israel in Moses. He was the head of that Group. placed their by God so the people were said to be "in moses"
21 And the LORD went before them by day in a pillar of a cloud, to lead them the way; and by night in a pillar of fire, to give them light ; to go by day and night: 22 He took not away the pillar of the cloud by day, nor the pillar of fire by night, from before the people.
34 Then a cloud covered the tent of the congregation, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle. 35 And Moses was not able to enter into the tent of the congregation, because the cloud abode thereon, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle. 36 And when the cloud was taken up from over the tabernacle, the children of Israel went onward in all their journeys: 37 But if the cloud were not taken up , then they journeyed not till the day that it was taken up . 38 For the cloud of the LORD was upon the tabernacle by day, and fire was on it by night, in the sight of all the house of Israel, throughout all their journeys.
34 Then a cloud covered the tent of the congregation, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle. 35 And Moses was not able to enter into the tent of the congregation, because the cloud abode thereon, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle. 36 And when the cloud was taken up from over the tabernacle, the children of Israel went onward in all their journeys: 37 But if the cloud were not taken up , then they journeyed not till the day that it was taken up . 38 For the cloud of the LORD was upon the tabernacle by day, and fire was on it by night, in the sight of all the house of Israel, throughout all their journeys.
Remember after the Golden calf incident. God said he would only go before moses, and give him rest. Moses had to mediate for the rest of Israel. God Still only showed his presence to moses. God led moses, and through moses, the people were lead. Thus they were baptized INTO moses.
I think it would be safe to say that the people were baptized unto Moses in the cloud by day and the fire by night and through the miraculous trial of the Red Sea in the beginning of their journey from Egypt (the world) and from the bondage of Pharaoh. Also consider, when God puts a believer or a local assembly through a trial they are submersed into that trial (just as the three Hebrew boys were trust into the fiery furnace in Daniel 3) because of what God wants to produce in the heart of every believer. Trials test the word of God that we have heard and been given so that it will be profitable and produce fruit (Is 55:11, Jn 15:7,8).
I also think that it is vital that we learn what it means to be baptized by the word and have it immerse every fiber and bone of our being (Jer 20:9, Heb 4:12, Lk 24:32, Jer 23:28,29). That it would be a burning in our heart and occupy every imagination and thought of our life (2Cor 10:5, Is 55:7-11) as it becomes the spirit of burning (Is 4:1-6)...
1 And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying , We will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel: only let us be called by thy name, to take away our reproach. 2 In that day shall the branch of the LORD be beautiful and glorious, and the fruit of the earth shall be excellent and comely for them that are escaped of Israel. 3 And it shall come to pass, that he that is left in Zion, and he that remaineth in Jerusalem, shall be called holy, even every one that is written among the living in Jerusalem: 4 When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and shall have purged the blood of Jerusalem from the midst thereof by the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning . 5 And the LORD will create upon every dwelling place of mount Zion, and upon her assemblies, a cloud and smoke by day, and the shining of a flaming fire by night: for upon all the glory shall be a defence. 6 And there shall be a tabernacle for a shadow in the daytime from the heat, and for a place of refuge, and for a covert from storm and from rain.
Acts 7:30-38 And when forty years were expired , there appeared to him in the wilderness of mount Sina an angel of the Lord in a flame of fire in a bush. 31 When Moses saw it, he wondered at the sight: and as he drew near to behold it, the voice of the Lord came unto him, 32 Saying, I am the God of thy fathers, the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. Then Moses trembled , and durst not behold . 33 Then said the Lord to him, Put off thy shoes from thy feet: for the place where thou standest is holy ground. 34 I have seen , I have seen the affliction of my people which is in Egypt, and I have heard their groaning, and am come down to deliver them. And now come , I will send thee into Egypt. 35 This Moses whom they refused , saying , Who made thee a ruler and a judge? the same did God send to be a ruler and a deliverer by the hand of the angel which appeared to him in the bush. 36 He brought them out , after that he had shewed wonders and signs in the land of Egypt, and in the Red sea, and in the wilderness forty years. 37 This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear . 38 This is he , that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:
When we take (1Jn 4:16) and also (Heb 12:29) and meditate on these two eternal attributes that reveal who God is along with the others scriptures mentioned, then it is not difficult to understand that fire does not always represent judgment... and the baptism of the Spirit is referenced to the baptism of burning fire (burning - Is 4:4) of God's love (Rom 5:5) that we can not be seperated from (Rom 8:35,39) nor can be quenched...
Song of Sol 8:4-7 I charge you, O daughters of Jerusalem, that ye stir not up , nor awake my love, until he please . 5 Who is this that cometh up from the wilderness, leaning upon her beloved? I raised thee up under the apple tree: there thy mother brought thee forth : there she brought thee forth that bare thee. 6 Set me as a seal upon thine heart, as a seal upon thine arm: for love is strong as death; jealousy is cruel as the grave: the coals thereof are coals of fire, which hath a most vehement flame. 7 Many waters cannot quench love, neither can the floods drown it: if a man would give all the substance of his house for love, it (the substance of his house) would utterly be contemned (insignificant) .
1 And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying , We will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel: only let us be called by thy name, to take away our reproach. 2 In that day shall the branch of the LORD be beautiful and glorious, and the fruit of the earth shall be excellent and comely for them that are escaped of Israel. 3 And it shall come to pass, that he that is left in Zion, and he that remaineth in Jerusalem, shall be called holy, even every one that is written among the living in Jerusalem: 4 When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and shall have purged the blood of Jerusalem from the midst thereof by the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning . 5 And the LORD will create upon every dwelling place of mount Zion, and upon her assemblies, a cloud and smoke by day, and the shining of a flaming fire by night: for upon all the glory shall be a defence. 6 And there shall be a tabernacle for a shadow in the daytime from the heat, and for a place of refuge, and for a covert from storm and from rain.
Acts 7:30-38 And when forty years were expired , there appeared to him in the wilderness of mount Sina an angel of the Lord in a flame of fire in a bush. 31 When Moses saw it, he wondered at the sight: and as he drew near to behold it, the voice of the Lord came unto him, 32 Saying, I am the God of thy fathers, the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. Then Moses trembled , and durst not behold . 33 Then said the Lord to him, Put off thy shoes from thy feet: for the place where thou standest is holy ground. 34 I have seen , I have seen the affliction of my people which is in Egypt, and I have heard their groaning, and am come down to deliver them. And now come , I will send thee into Egypt. 35 This Moses whom they refused , saying , Who made thee a ruler and a judge? the same did God send to be a ruler and a deliverer by the hand of the angel which appeared to him in the bush. 36 He brought them out , after that he had shewed wonders and signs in the land of Egypt, and in the Red sea, and in the wilderness forty years. 37 This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear . 38 This is he , that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:
When we take (1Jn 4:16) and also (Heb 12:29) and meditate on these two eternal attributes that reveal who God is along with the others scriptures mentioned, then it is not difficult to understand that fire does not always represent judgment... and the baptism of the Spirit is referenced to the baptism of burning fire (burning - Is 4:4) of God's love (Rom 5:5) that we can not be seperated from (Rom 8:35,39) nor can be quenched...
Song of Sol 8:4-7 I charge you, O daughters of Jerusalem, that ye stir not up , nor awake my love, until he please . 5 Who is this that cometh up from the wilderness, leaning upon her beloved? I raised thee up under the apple tree: there thy mother brought thee forth : there she brought thee forth that bare thee. 6 Set me as a seal upon thine heart, as a seal upon thine arm: for love is strong as death; jealousy is cruel as the grave: the coals thereof are coals of fire, which hath a most vehement flame. 7 Many waters cannot quench love, neither can the floods drown it: if a man would give all the substance of his house for love, it (the substance of his house) would utterly be contemned (insignificant) .
so we are left with a few choices.
1. They were saved anyway. Christ did baptize them in the HS even though the rejected him till the day they died.
2. The will be baptized with fire. They were not baptized by the HS because they rejected the Good Nes (gospel) of Christ.
either way, we know one fact by what John said. Every man woman and child born today WILL be baptized by Christ. This is fact. Or else John was a liar. And God screwed up by having this thing written in his word. making him a liar.