The Problem of evil

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Oh wow, I’m sorry to hear that. You mind if I ask how he has failed in life?

He refused to help his brother, my "adoptive father" as my AF fell victim to Altheimerz Dementia . . . called Adult Protective Services and totally threw us under the bus. Even caused his brother to wish that he were dead. He and his wife . . . miserable people. It's a long, long story that became legal. It's worth a movie being made about.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

What would YOU say to people who say they do not believe in God because bad things happen to good people. And what would you say to someone who experienced horrible hardship, and as a result lost their faith.

For example, Elie Wiesel was born in 1928 in Sighet Transylvania in Romania. He deeply believed in Judaism ✡️. When he was 15 Nazis invaded and ended up taking him to the worst concentration camp, Auschwitz. He and his father were forced to walk to Buna after three weeks in Auschwitz. He ended up losing his faith. And in total he spent 13 months in concentration camps. We can only imagine the horrible things that happened there and the horrible things he had to endure.

He wrote a book called “Night” and it was about his experiences. He won a Nobel peace prize. And as I said, because of the evil that he was forced to go through, because of everything that happened he lost his faith.

His poem “Never shall I ever” https://www.hmd.org.uk/resource/never-shall-i-forget-by-elie-wiesel/

“For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them. Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.

When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart.

This is he which received seed by the way side. But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.

But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭13:17-23‬ ‭KJV‬

Gods word is like a seed meant to produce better humans beings willing to purposely love thier fellow man in his name in , gratitude recognizing him for all he’s done to create us and then save us and for all He’s promised to yet do after we leave this body.

some receive and it means Alot because they believe it’s true , but then for various reasons later they don’t follow through they fall away and return to the world.

I’d says it’s never too late to repent and be forgiven is the thing it’s usually us making excuses because we don’t really Want to

we are always free to choose to stay in faith or turn away we’re also free to repent always and return to God with our heart and his word promises forgiveness to the repentant believer.

There are many reasons to
NOt turn ourself Back to God we seem to Notice when we get off track “
I’ve lost faith and he’s never have me again “ ive Done it this time “ “ I just can’t do It 😕🥲🥲”

The world has a lot to say but Jesus words are way better and worth holding fast to

 

[Omegatime]

I hear you. I don't know if you accept extra-Biblical sources, but the Book of Jubilees, I believe, teaches that Adam and Eve sinned exactly after seven years in the garden to the day. Seven. That's not a mistake, but a Holy Control of the Lord.

Speaking of extra-biblical sources is one of my favorites---Irenaeus, taught by Polycarp a hearer and disciple of Apostle John.

The devil is well practised in falsehood, by which Adam having been led astray, sinned on the sixth day of the creation, in which day also he has been renewed by Christ.

1. He had indeed been already accustomed to lie against God, for the purpose of leading men astray. For at the beginning, when God had given to man a variety of things for food, while He commanded him not to eat of one tree only, as the Scripture tells us that God said to Adam: From every tree which is in the garden you shall eat food; but from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, from this you shall not eat: for in the day that you shall eat of it, you shall die by death; Genesis 2:16-17 he then, lying against the Lord, tempted man, as the Scripture says that the serpent said to the woman: Has God indeed said this, You shall not eat from every tree of the garden? Genesis 3:1 And when she had exposed the falsehood, and simply related the command, as He had said, From every tree of the garden we shall eat; but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God has said, You shall not eat of it, neither shall you touch it, lest you die: Genesis 3:2-3 when he had [thus] learned from the woman the command of God, having brought his cunning into play, he finally deceived her by a falsehood, saying, You shall not die by death; for God knew that in the day you shall eat of it your eyes shall be opened, and you shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. Genesis 3:4 In the first place, then, in the garden of God he disputed about God, as if God was not there, for he was ignorant of the greatness of God; and then, in the next place, after he had learned from the woman that God had said that they should die if they tasted the aforesaid tree, opening his mouth, he uttered the third falsehood, You shall not die by death. But that God was true, and the serpent a liar, was proved by the result, death having passed upon them who had eaten. For along with the fruit they did also fall under the power of death, because they ate in disobedience; and disobedience to God entails death. Wherefore, as they became forfeit to death, from that [moment] they were handed over to it.

 

[Cyberm]

It is illogical but we often when caught in emotion fail to be logical.

I’m still not convinced people who don’t believe in God because of evil act out entirely out of

They would take it badly, if I rephrased my statement like you did.

Well, how would you phrase it then. I do not want to put words in your mouth and speak for you. That is the last thing I want sorry if you feel I have done that, that is on me.

 

[Nehemiah6]

So because the Jewish ancestors rejected Christ, their decedents deserved the holocaust? I’m just trying to understand.

The word "deserved" is not applicable. "Brought upon themselves" is more accurate. We have to go all the way back to Pontius Pilate and his many attempts to release Christ. He found no fault in Christ, so he ceremonially washed his hands. But before he did that the Jewish mob was clamoring for the crucifixion of Christ and then brought a curse upon themselves.

MATTHEW 27: THE JEWS BROUGH A CURSE UPON THEMSELVES
22 Pilate saith unto them, What shall I do then with Jesus which is called Christ? They all say unto him, Let him be crucified.
23 And the governor said, Why, what evil hath he done? But they cried out the more, saying, Let him be crucified.
24 When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but that rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye to it.
25 Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children.

Even traitor Judas had said "I have betrayed innocent blood". So the destruction of Judea, Jerusalem, and the temple, the diaspora of the Jews, the persecution and anti-Semitism they faced in Europe, and eventually the Holocaust all sprang from what was said to Pilate.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Speaking of extra-biblical sources is one of my favorites---Irenaeus, taught by Polycarp a hearer and disciple of Apostle John.

The devil is well practised in falsehood, by which Adam having been led astray, sinned on the sixth day of the creation, in which day also he has been renewed by Christ.

1. He had indeed been already accustomed to lie against God, for the purpose of leading men astray. For at the beginning, when God had given to man a variety of things for food, while He commanded him not to eat of one tree only, as the Scripture tells us that God said to Adam: From every tree which is in the garden you shall eat food; but from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, from this you shall not eat: for in the day that you shall eat of it, you shall die by death; Genesis 2:16-17 he then, lying against the Lord, tempted man, as the Scripture says that the serpent said to the woman: Has God indeed said this, You shall not eat from every tree of the garden? Genesis 3:1 And when she had exposed the falsehood, and simply related the command, as He had said, From every tree of the garden we shall eat; but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God has said, You shall not eat of it, neither shall you touch it, lest you die: Genesis 3:2-3 when he had [thus] learned from the woman the command of God, having brought his cunning into play, he finally deceived her by a falsehood, saying, You shall not die by death; for God knew that in the day you shall eat of it your eyes shall be opened, and you shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. Genesis 3:4 In the first place, then, in the garden of God he disputed about God, as if God was not there, for he was ignorant of the greatness of God; and then, in the next place, after he had learned from the woman that God had said that they should die if they tasted the aforesaid tree, opening his mouth, he uttered the third falsehood, You shall not die by death. But that God was true, and the serpent a liar, was proved by the result, death having passed upon them who had eaten. For along with the fruit they did also fall under the power of death, because they ate in disobedience; and disobedience to God entails death. Wherefore, as they became forfeit to death, from that [moment] they were handed over to it.

Remarkable. Who would ever have a problem with THAT!? That falls right in line with the Word of God. I love it.

 

[JStates]

A truther I know likes to do reviews of movies and video games, evaluating the Masonic/Luciferian elements in them.

The guy who did the stop-motion animation work for Jurassic Park and the Star Wars movies (the Rancor, the pig-men, the monsters on the Millennium Falcon's game board) apparently worked for 30 years on a personal project film which he just recently released. It was hugely hyped and a lot of people were excited about it. The film is called MAD GOD.

It doesn't sound like something a Christian should watch and even the review video, which was obviously filtered, was extremely disturbing.

The basic premise is that GOD must be MAD in order to allow evil and suffering in the world.

The film is absolute filth. It probably couldn't be shown if it did not use a claymation style of presentation. I haven't seen it and I never will, but here's what the review video covered. The protagonist is from a Nazi-like society and is sent on an assassination mission carrying a bomb into a hellish dystopian world. In this world, humanoid figured work ceaselessly on strange machines and engines, and making stone monoliths. These labors all end in horror and bloodshed, as these figures are pulled, push, fall, or are fed into these machines which grind them to puree and pour them down the throats of monstrous abominations. The stone monoliths fly around, smashing and dismembering the humanoids, and there are also steady processions of humanoids sacrificing themselves or committing suicide by burning themselves alive and other things. Demonic bull figures abuse the humanoids sexually and a sacrifice of an infant to these bulls is depicted in the film. Sadistic doctors cut open the main character without anesthesia at one point, strange half humanoid, half machine creatures feed on the living and abominations stitched together from human parts are depicted. According to the reviewer, it was a progression of scene after scene of horrific violence and bloodshed, perversion, despair, mayhem, and hopelessness without any real cohesive story or context.

The man who made MAD GOD claims he was actually inspired by an entity to create this Satanic filth. Whenever he felt depressed, angry, bitter, or sad, he would go to his basement to work on this film project.

And herein lies the irony. He blames a MAD GOD for the world's suffering, but God didn't inspire him to make this awful movie. He made it himself at the prompting of his evil lord Satan.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

I’m still not convinced people who don’t believe in God because of evil act out entirely out of


Well, how would you phrase it then. I do not want to put words in your mouth and speak for you. That is the last thing I want sorry if you feel I have done that, that is on me.

I'm just saying it is illogical to resist or not believe in God. God calls it foolish.

So it has nothing to do with logic but typically either ignorance, emotional (trauma, pain, pleasure), or hatred.

 

[studentoftheword]

What would YOU say to people who say they do not believe in God because bad things happen to good people.

Well for starters ----where in the Scriptures does it say there are good people -----see scriptures below

Even after we receive Jesus as our Lord and Saviour ---we still sin so we are really never good -people ----


The scripture says the opposite ----

Psalm 14
For the director of music. Of David.
1 The fool[a] says in his heart,
“There is no God.”
They are corrupt, their deeds are vile;
there is no one who does good.
2 The Lord looks down from heaven
on all mankind
to see if there are any who understand,
any who seek God.
3 All have turned away, all have become corrupt;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.


Romans 3:10-12 NIV
10 As it is written:
“There is no one righteous, not even one;
11 there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God.
12 All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.”[a]

The Complete Jewish Bible
Chapter Parallel
Ecclesiastes 7:20 (CJB) For there isn't a righteous person on earth who does [only] good and never sins.


I say -----so the people who think that God allows bad to happen to good people are dreaming and have no idea that there are no good people in God's eyes ---some Christians are the worst at saying they are good people so that maybe where the twisted thinking comes in ------many say __WELL I am a Christian so I am a good person ----really ??????

 

[Lanolin]

Book of Job

if you havent read it I suggest you read it again...answers all your questions

 

[Lanolin]

when someone believes in Judaism...that will not save them unless they believe in Jesus (who was Jewish, btw)

 

[Lanolin]

what would I say

well Jesus endured a most horrible painful and humiliating crucifixtion, if anything he had the WORST thing to happen to him and he was the most innocent, righteous and good guy there ever was in the whole history of the planet. He didnt do anything wrong yet was put to death.

Yet he rose again on the third day.

 

[studentoftheword]

For example, Elie Wiesel was born in 1928 in Sighet Transylvania in Romania. He deeply believed in Judaism ✡️. When he was 15 Nazis invaded and ended up taking him to the worst concentration camp, Auschwitz. He and his father were forced to walk to Buna after three weeks in Auschwitz. He ended up losing his faith. And in total he spent 13 months in concentration camps. We can only imagine the horrible things that happened there and the horrible things he had to endure.

I say -------What happened to the Jews in Auschwitz and other camps was an abomination and the worst atrocity ever committed in the History of this planet ------Pure Evil for sure ------

Now there is much to understand why God allows evil ------God does not cause Evil but He allows evil to exist -----

There is Natural Evil which Exists ------This World is under a Curse Folks ---We live in a Fallen World where Destruction ---Aggression and a Anger Rage which is a part of Creation ------Romans 8 describes life in the flesh and life in the Spirit ----

There is Moral Evil which Exists ----we harbour wickedness ----perversion ---sin in the Human Heart ----

God Exists and He is Sovereign ----God is in control of Everything ----

God Willed Evil to exist ----Isaiah 45 :5-9


Isaiah 45:5-9 GNT
5 “I am the Lord; there is no other god.
I will give you the strength you need,
although you do not know me.
6 I do this so that everyone
from one end of the world to the other
may know that I am the Lord
and that there is no other god.
7 I create both light and darkness;
I bring both blessing and disaster.
I, the Lord, do all these things.

8 I will send victory from the sky like rain;
the earth will open to receive it
and will blossom with freedom and justice.
I, the Lord, will make this happen.”

The Lord of Creation and History
9 Does a clay pot dare argue with its maker,
a pot that is like all the others?
Does the clay ask the potter what he is doing?
Does the pot complain that its maker has no skill?


I say ----So we see here that God takes full responsibility for the existence of evil -----

He even sent His Only Son to Endure a horrible and painful death -----at the hands of evil -----

God put evil in place to show His Glory -----We Praise God for what He has done to overcome Evil

Romans 3:5 states ----our unrighteousness puts God's righteousness on display -----

We Humans cannot go against what God wants for us and expect to have no trouble follow -----God will demonstrate His Wrath and Judgment on those who try and bring about their own righteousness ------

I believe bad things happen to people--- 1--because of sin -----

2 because God allows bad things to happen to His people ----- to test their enduring Faith -----True Faith will preserve to the end of the calamity facing us -------JOB is an example of persevering Faith -----

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now this man----- Elie Wiesel who went through an extremely devastating experience ----is certainly an inspiring account of survival -----

This is an article on this man ------I am just posting this part as it pertains to his Faith -----the quote in the OP says he lost his Faith ----but from what the Article is saying---he didn't loose his Faith --He Questioned God------

I personally think it is OK to Question God if we are seeing the truth of His word ------

This is that part of the article ==you can read all if you wish ----

https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/elie-wiesel

How did Elie Wiesel describe his belief in God before and after the Holocaust?
Elie Wiesel reflected on his relationship with God in writings, speeches, and interviews. He opens his memoir Night by writing about his devout faith and religious education as a young boy. As he witnesses the inhumanity of Auschwitz in Night, Wiesel explains that he began to question God. More than 50 years after liberation, he reflected on this: "What about my faith in you, Master of the Universe? I now realize I never lost it, not even over there, during the darkest hours of my life."


I say ------I assume his question was --where are you God and why are you letting this happen to your people ------

I say ---- I am sure many people were asking that same question who experience such horror -----and I am sure many are asking this question today with the pandemic and Russia right now ---and i say there is a reason Folks ----

My View on this -----

God Gave Humans complete control over all the earth -----we Humans have made a mess of being Stewards over God's Planet ------God will not nor can He just come and interfere in the workings of this world without an invitation from the Humans He gave all the authority to look after this Planet ---If God were to intervene then God would be breaking His own promise ----So in order for God to intervene in the affairs of this Planet we have to Pray for Him to intervene ---God will not just come and zap the problem or calamity away ----and there is protocol for answered Prayer --People who are not Born Again cannot pray to God and be answered --Sin and iniquity turns God's Face From Hearing ---God has been taken out of most everything and everywhere today ----the Humans in Government ---Schools -----Churches and Homes have keep God at bay all by themselves so -----

Evil has a great foothold on this Planet ------we live on a dangerous Planet today FOLKS and it will remain that way until Jesus comes back and Fixes it ---God works all evil for Good and that is what we should hang on to ---

John 4:24 ESV
24 God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.”


There is also another article on this man -----if anyone is interested ---in this article he does say he ask God why he didn't help -----

https://www.pbs.org/eliewiesel/life... saw that God did,can control our own actions

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

where in the Scriptures does it say there are good people

Throughout the Bible

John the Baptist ("No one greater than")
Apostle Paul (asked us 18 to model ourselves after him)
Abel (first True prophet)
Josiah (cleaned up the temple and made it Holy again)
Enoch (so "good" he didn't even die)
Joshuah (wholehearted)
Caleb (wholehearted)
Mary (mother of Jesus . . . I mean, come on!)
Abraham (Pure, Righteous, Blameless)

Anyone noted as Pure, Righteous and Blameless

Many people had received Circumcision of the Heart . . . these are "good" people.

 

[studentoftheword]

Many people had received Circumcision of the Heart . . . these are "good" people.

Well you can think that if you want to ---

Jesus said this ----so what do you do with this scripture ------discard it ------

MARK 10:18
KJ21
And Jesus said unto him, “Why callest thou Me good? There is none good but One, that is, God.

AMP
Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is [essentially] good [by nature] except God alone.

AMPC
And Jesus said to him, Why do you call Me [essentially and perfectly morally] good? There is no one [essentially and perfectly morally] good—except God alone.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Well you can think that if you want to ---

lol . . . thanks?

Jesus is saying that God, the Father, is Utterly Good. No regular human is Utterly Good.

We are [viewed] as "Good" (imputed Righteousness) but inherently, we do not equate to God.

To say that someone is Pure, Righteous, Blameless and Holy is not good . . . that's pretty odd.

Context . . . context . . . context.

 

[studentoftheword]

No regular human is Utterly Good.

Thai is so right -----and we are righteous on the inside ---heaven bound---good on the inside but still have the Flesh on the outside -which is cursed and fleshly thinking until we change the way we think to God;s way ---we still sin --But God in His Grace forgives us -------so we are still morally not good until we shed this body and are in the new body -----that is how I see that -----

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Thai is so right -----and we are righteous on the inside ---heaven bound---good on the inside but still have the Flesh on the outside -which is cursed and fleshly thinking until we change the way we think to God;s way ---we still sin --But God in His Grace forgives us -------so we are still morally not good until we shed this body and are in the new body -----that is how I see that -----

Okie doke. I see it the way Scripture determines. And since I have received the Circumcision of Christ, I am whole and complete, made alive, and the Spiritual Rulers and Authorities have been defeated in my life.

Colossians 2:9-15 NLT - "For in Christ lives all the fullness of God in a human body. 10 So you also are complete through your union with Christ, who is the head over every ruler and authority. 11 When you came to Christ, you were "circumcised," but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision--the cutting away of your sinful nature. 12 For you were buried with Christ when you were baptized. And with him you were raised to new life because you trusted the mighty power of God, who raised Christ from the dead. 13 You were dead because of your sins and because your sinful nature was not yet cut away. Then God made you alive with Christ, for he forgave all our sins. 14 He canceled the record of the charges against us and took it away by nailing it to the cross. 15 In this way, he disarmed the spiritual rulers and authorities. He shamed them publicly by his victory over them on the cross."

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

@studentoftheword - Do you relate to Colossians 2:9-15? If you've received Circumcision of the Heart, those Seven verses should be as clear as the noonday sun.

 

[studentoftheword]

2ndTimothyGroup

see it as you like ----if you believe Born Again people are good then that is what you believe --

I do not ---and that is my belief -----we still sin ----and that is not good ---we still have thinking the way the world thinks ---that is not good ----so we are good and heaven bound on the inside and still morally corrupt on the outside -----

no one is Good but God ------he is the only one who is good on the inside and outside ----

I don't think you understand the 3 types of man ----All Born Again people remain Carnal until they Mature in stature to a Spiritual man -----and I know know one who has ever or will ever attain
the Spirit man Status in our life time ------

So --------if you think your have advance to a Spiritual man status ---well good for you ---but I am still working on getting to the Spiritual man stage -------so I am not good --


You see------ we who are Born again are called Carnal Christians -------Most Christians will die as a Carnal Christian -------and never advance to the Spiritual man level ----it takes much work and stamina to reach that level -----

The Carnal Man: He is one that is born again into God’s family, but lives and behaves as a man in a natural state living according to his carnal or fleshly desires. Instead of following the leading of the Holy Spirit, he chooses to allow the lust of the eyes, lust of the flesh, and pride tempt him, which produces ungodly works and the inability to grow in Spiritual maturity and discernment (Romans 7:14-25; 1 Corinthians 3:1-14).

Only by immersing himself in the Word of God and putting off the works of the flesh can he abstain from his fleshly lusts and live a life that is pleasing to God and serves as a glorification of God before unbelievers (1 Peter 2:11-12).
Sadly, the carnal man often claims he is a Christian, but demonstrates to the world that Christians are no different than anyone else.

I say ------We are to advance ourselves to the Spiritual man ----

The Spiritual Man: He is one that is born again into God’s family and lives in a Spiritual state.
1 CORINTHIANS 2:15

AMP
But the spiritual man [the spiritually mature Christian] judges all things [questions, examines and applies what the Holy Spirit reveals], yet is himself judged by no one [the unbeliever cannot judge and understand the believer’s spiritual nature].

AMPC
But the spiritual man tries all things [he examines, investigates, inquires into, questions, and discerns all things], yet is himself to be put on trial and judged by no one [he can read the meaning of everything, but no one can properly discern or appraise or get an insight into him

So context --contex ---context