The False Teaching (& Truth) of what happens at the Rapture.

[Absolutely]

You really need to pay attention. You'd learn something.

2 Thess 2:1 - Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters,

1 Cor 15:23 - But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

You have no excuse to keep claiming that the Bible doesn't say "when". Here are 2 verses that DO say "when". It is "when he comes".


I'm not even going to entertain your nonsense. You definitely have some reading problems.

So you know when he comes?
Here is your position;
(Your quote that you are defending)
"""huh? So you really DON'T know "when He comes"?? When do you think the Second coming will occur then, if not after the Trib.
It is WELL AFTER Armageddon.
You completely reframed it.
Unbelievable"""

And it is your quote that has you all riled up.

Lol

 

[Absolutely]

Yes... Scripture shows the following:


--TWO DISTINCT mentions of "FIRSTFRUIT" in Leviticus 23;


--James 1:18 saying, "[that we should be] a KIND of firstfruit";


--"the 144,000" being connected with (the "FIRSTFRUIT" OF) the "WHEAT" harvest (Rev14:4 / Lev23:17 "TWO loaves" and "baken WITH LEAVEN" [<--that ain't US / the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY]);


--the "WHEAT" harvest taking place in connection with Christ's Second Coming TO THE EARTH, FOR the earthly MK age (i.e. "the AGE [SINGULAR] TO COME"), where Matt13:24,30,39,40,49-50=(also)Matt25:31-34 and context (i.e. the "nations [plural]" having been INVITED--and the SHEEP [/the righteous / ye BLESSED] of the nations will be those who will ENTER the earthly MK age [not the goats / ye CURSED]); these passages speak of those "still-living" at that time-slot (the SHEEP / the righteous / ye BLESSED of My Father) will ENTER the MK age in their mortal bodies, just like will be true of the persons in Dan12:13 ("BLESSED is he that WAITETH and COMETH TO the 1335 days"); which leads to the later fact of Rev20:8 "the number of whom is as the sand of the sea";


--when it comes to the Subject of "resurrection," 1Cor15:23 says, "[re: resurrection] but EACH [*G1538; a word that means "of more than two"] in his own ORDER / RANK" (which suggests there doesn't remain ONLY ONE at a singular point in time... so one must ask themselves, why is that? and how can that be? [bearing in mind (re: "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY"): Col2:12-13/Eph2:5/Rom6:3/Col3:1,3,4, etc]); *G1538 - https://biblehub.com/greek/1538.htm


--more... but sufficient for one post... = )

Nope. Nothing about wheat.
They are the grape harvest.
4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

Grape harvest is last.
Jews come in in rev 14
Which is during the gt.

 

[Absolutely]

You really need to pay attention. You'd learn something.

2 Thess 2:1 - Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters,

1 Cor 15:23 - But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

You have no excuse to keep claiming that the Bible doesn't say "when". Here are 2 verses that DO say "when". It is "when he comes".


I'm not even going to entertain your nonsense. You definitely have some reading problems.

...and you tell others about "reading problems"

We were discussing Rev 20 :1-5

Hello??? "first resurrection"!

IN THOSE VERSES it does NOT SAY when.

YOU added "WHEN" as follows;
"""huh? So you really DON'T know "when He comes"?? When do you think the Second coming will occur then, if not after the Trib.
It is WELL AFTER Armageddon.
You completely reframed it.
Unbelievable"""

You just wildly and recklessly added what suited you.


Uh ,yeah, we do realize other verses you posted defeat your erroneous "when". SMH

The bible proves you wrong friend

 

[Absolutely]

What a devious trick!! Sure, leave out v.5 why don't you. Oh yeah, you did that.

So, let's fix your dishonesty right now.

New International Version
(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.

New Living Translation
This is the first resurrection. (The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years had ended.)

English Standard Version
The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection.

Berean Study Bible
The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years were complete. This is the first resurrection.

Berean Literal Bible
The rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years shall have been completed. This is the first resurrection.

King James Bible
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

New King James Version
But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

New American Standard Bible
The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.

NASB 1995
The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.

NASB 1977
The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.

Amplified Bible
The rest of the dead [the non-believers] did not come to life again until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.

Christian Standard Bible
The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
The rest of the dead did not come to life until the 1,000 years were completed. This is the first resurrection.

American Standard Version
The rest of the dead lived not until the thousand years should be finished. This is the first resurrection.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And this is the first resurrection.

Douay-Rheims Bible
The rest of the dead lived not, till the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

English Revised Version
The rest of the dead lived not until the thousand years should be finished. This is the first resurrection.

International Standard Version
The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years were over. This is the first resurrection.

Literal Standard Version
and the rest of the dead did not live again until the one thousand years may be completed; this [is] the first resurrection.

NET Bible
(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were finished.) This is the first resurrection.

New Heart English Bible
The rest of the dead did not live until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Weymouth New Testament
No one else who was dead rose to Life until the thousand years were at an end. This is the First Resurrection.

World English Bible
The rest of the dead didn't live until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Young's Literal Translation
and the rest of the dead did not live again till the thousand years may be finished; this is the first rising again.

Now that I've FIXED the dishonesty, can you finally ADMIT that the resurrection of the martyrs is "the FIRST resurrection"?


When you stop before v.5, sure, you'd think so.


There are only 2 total. One for the saved and one for the unsaved. Acts 24:15 actually says so clearly. Have you read it yet?


huh? So you really DON'T know "when He comes"?? When do you think the Second coming will occur then, if not after the Trib.
It is WELL AFTER Armageddon.

You completely reframed it.
Unbelievable

[/QUOTE]
"""What a devious trick!! Sure, leave out v.5 why don't you. Oh yeah, you did that.
So, let's fix your dishonesty right now.
So you really DON'T know "when He comes"?? When do you think the Second coming will occur then, if not after the Trib.
It is WELL AFTER Armageddon."""

Man that is so comical.!

Hilarious!!!!
Lol

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Grape harvest is last.
Jews come in in rev 14
Which is during the gt.

A few things to consider:

--I do not believe "harvest" necessarily equals "resurrection [from being physically DEAD]";

--I do not believe Rev14:4 = Rev14:18 about the "grapes" (and neither does v.14);

--you may recall, I do not believe "the 144,000" are shown to go UP TO Heaven; (neither do the Sheep and goats of the nations [plural], by the way)

--the SECOND of the TWO mentions of "FIRSTFRUIT" in Lev23 (v.17) has similar wording to that of Rev14:4 about "the 144,000"

--gotta run!...

 

[John146]

If Christ was the first, there must be at least a second...

 

[FreeGrace2]

"""huh? So you really DON'T know "when He comes"?? When do you think the Second coming will occur then, if not after the Trib.
It is WELL AFTER Armageddon.
You completely reframed it.
Unbelievable"""

Your quote
Which you declare with authority

Which is so wrong, even the most radical postribbers would not buy it.

Prove it, if you can.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Lets see....
What is it you claim?
"""huh? So you really DON'T know "when He comes"?? When do you think the Second coming will occur then, if not after the Trib.
It is WELL AFTER Armageddon.
You completely reframed it.
Unbelievable"""

Really?

.....and you are defending that?

Prove it, quit making false claims.

 

[FreeGrace2]

So you know when he comes?

This is really a broken record. Of course I do and have shown many times. But you need to open those eyes of yours.

Here is your position;
(Your quote that you are defending)
"""huh? So you really DON'T know "when He comes"??

This is a question for YOU. I've already shown when He comes.

When do you think the Second coming will occur then, if not after the Trib.

This is a ridiculous question. The Second Coming is obviously after the Tribulaton.

It is WELL AFTER Armageddon.

If you've timed it, please show us where you get your materia?

You completely reframed it.

You're gonna have to prove that I did, since I claim I didn't.

And it is your quote that has you all riled up.

You seem to have a knack for having no clue what you are saying. I'm not riled up over anyone's posts. What people opine doesn't bother me at all. And all I do is share what I believe and prove it from the Bible.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
You really need to pay attention. You'd learn something.

2 Thess 2:1 - Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters,

1 Cor 15:23 - But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

You have no excuse to keep claiming that the Bible doesn't say "when". Here are 2 verses that DO say "when". It is "when he comes".

I'm not even going to entertain your nonsense. You definitely have some reading problems.

...and you tell others about "reading problems"

No, I told you, specifically, because of ALL your gross errors in what you think my position is.

We were discussing Rev 20 :1-5

Hello??? "first resurrection"!

Sure. Directly in v.5.

IN THOSE VERSES it does NOT SAY when.

Did I say it did SAY it?

Again, you seem to have a serious reading deficit here. The context SHOWS us when the Second Advent is. Can you read and understand ch 19? It's all there. And ch 20 follows immediately. But since you seem quite unclear on the concept, I've been explaining it to you.

You're welcome.

YOU added "WHEN" as follows;
"""huh? So you really DON'T know "when He comes"?? When do you think the Second coming will occur then, if not after the Trib.
It is WELL AFTER Armageddon.
You completely reframed it.
Unbelievable"""

You just wildly and recklessly added what suited you.

This makes no sense at all. What is your point?

Uh ,yeah, we do realize other verses you posted defeat your erroneous "when". SMH

Prove it. With detail. All you do is spew claims but never back them up with evidence.

The bible proves you wrong friend

Prove it. If you can.

 

[FreeGrace2]

So you really DON'T know "when He comes"?? [/QUOTE]
Why do you keep asking this bizarre question? What are you trying to prove, other than you own a broken record?

When do you think the Second coming will occur then, if not after the Trib.
It is WELL AFTER Armageddon."""

You haven't proven anything from the Bible yet. So, can you prove the Second Advent is "well after armageddon"?

If that were true, who defeated Satan and the beast and FP then?

Man that is so comical.!

Hilarious!!!!
Lol

Yep. That would refer to all of your views, for sure.

 

[FreeGrace2]

If Christ was the first, there must be at least a second...

There is. 1 Cor 15:23 tells us. "when He comes" "those who belong to Him" will be resurrected.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

If Christ was the first, there must be at least a second...

May I ask, are you referring to the distinction between:

--"the FIRST [H7225] of the FIRSTFRUIT [H1061]" - Ex23:19, 34:26;

[and]

--"FIRSTFRUIT [H1061]" - Leviticus 23:17,20 (etc) [in Lev23, this is the SECOND mention of "FIRSTFRUIT" (and is connected with the "WHEAT" harvest)]

 

[John146]

There is. 1 Cor 15:23 tells us. "when He comes" "those who belong to Him" will be resurrected.

Yep, those who are in Him, in Christ...when the fullness of the Gentiles be come in. The problem with your view, this group does not include the saints who die in the tribulation. They are not part of the body of Christ. They must endure to the end or be murdered. They must keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

The body of Christ is never commanded to endure to the end to be saved, nor is our salvation based upon keeping the commandments.

 

[John146]

May I ask, are you referring to the distinction between:

--"the FIRST [H7225] of the FIRSTFRUIT [H1061]" - Ex23:19, 34:26;

[and]

--"FIRSTFRUIT [H1061]" - Leviticus 23:17,20 (etc) [in Lev23, this is the SECOND mention of "FIRSTFRUIT" (and is connected with the "WHEAT" harvest)]

Yes, that is the comparison. This is why Christ is called the firstfruits because His resurrection is the first part of the harvest.

1. Firstfruits
2. Harvest
3. Gleanings

This completes the harvest, three parts, one harvest.

1. Christ's resurrection
2. The resurrection of Christ's body
3. The resurrection of the saints at the end of the tribulation

 

[Absolutely]

Prove it, quit making false claims.

I quoted you.

Too funny

But yes your deal is not biblical no matter how you misquote yourself.

Lol

 

[Absolutely]

There is. 1 Cor 15:23 tells us. "when He comes" "those who belong to Him" will be resurrected.

We all believe that
It fits both camps

 

[kleronomos]

IMHO,


THE FIRST RESURRECTION applies to ALL who are SAVED AND go straight to the Lord and Saviour upon the last breath of the flesh body.

THE SECOND Resurrection IS FOR THOSE WHO ARE NOT SAVED and go to the 'grave' upon the last breath of the body BUT may become 'saved' at the end of the Lords Day. If not saved then, (if they follow after Satan), then they receive the second death instead.

THAT IS the only difference as far as resurrection is concerned. So, not the same for everyone, not the same time for everyone, not the same place for everyone, and only one time for a 'known and specified group' aka the alive and remaining)

THE FIRST RESURRECTION

When born in the flesh we remain 'spiritually dead' until one hears the words of God, comes to faith, receives the gift of salvation AND IS NOW SAVED. When that person DIES and is resurrected IN CHRIST (BAPTISM) A NEW CREATURE comes to life and now A SPIRITUALLY body and soul alive have come to LIFE. Again, though still in an earthen vessel (to be crucified everyday) that NEW CREATURE is a SPIRITUAL BEING, the spiritual body has come to life and takes CONTROL over for the 'daily crucified flesh body' that entirely NEW being now LIVING TO GOD, NO LONGER OF THIS WORLD.


SO THE PROMISE OF DEATH AND RESURRECTION HAVE ALREADY COME TO A SAVED BEING. (do not for even a second believe that I believe that once that happens you are always saved. If you do not respect the gift and stay on the path, you will lose that gift. CHRIST will remain faithful on His promise as long as you remain faithful on yours. HOW can that be truth? Because God is not only JUST but a Consuming Fire as well. THE only ones who CAN NEVER LOSE IT are those who were preordained and justified, the chosen, Gods elect. THESE ARE ALSO the ones who will be standing trial and be given up to death during the Tribulation of Satan, before the day of vengeance comes and destroys Satan and the wrath of God is poured out upon the world. THE WRATH OF GOD ISN'T POURED OUT UNTIL THE END OF THE TEST. If it were to, it would fall upon one who was coming to faith, so UNTIL THAT DOOR CLOSES, no wrath)


ALL the work being done on the earth by the saved is for the GLORY OF GOD. The only thing that KEEPS US FROM THE GOD OF THE LIVING in heaven, from that point on, is the 'life' left in the flesh. ONCE THE FLESH dies/the earthen vessel breaks, the SPIRITUAL BODY, THE HEAVENLY BODY, THE NEW CREATURE, IMMEDIATELY GOES TO BE WITH THE LORD IN HEAVEN.

The Holy Spirit that dwells in us CAN NOT GO INTO A GRAVE. Christ has already DIED once.

The Lord and Saviour (FROM SIN AND DEATH AND THE LAW OF SIN AND DEATH) COMES to meet you (in heaven as HE CAN NOT LEAVE THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD) and you COME TO THE FATHER by Christ our Lord and remain with Him until AS KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS we all return to set up the kingdom of heaven on earth.

(Heaven is the place He was headed when He spoke to Peter. Heaven is the place He will be UNTIL THE DAY OF VENGEANCE. If we are to be with HIM where He is, then we have no choice but to go to heaven. IF we go to sleep FOR ANY AMOUNT OF TIME, then some of the words of GOD are turned into a lie. They are rendered null and void. NO MATTER WHAT YOU BELIEVE RIGHT NOW. WE DO NOT HAVE TO WAIT 3 DAYS BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE ANY WORK TO PERFORM. So we are different than Christ).


The SECOND RESURRECTION

Born in the flesh never come to faith, spiritually dead. When the 'flesh' also dies, to the grave awaiting resurrection at the beginning of the LOrds DAy or resurrection for the GWTJ.

IF resurrected at the beginning when the Lord RETURNS, COMING TO SET UP THE KINGDOM on earth, that soul is resurrected in a spiritual body, but NOT TO IMMORTALITY.

So even though they have been raised up to 'life in an incorruptible body' because they have not been SAVED by coming to faith they remain SPIRITUALLY DEAD. (THEY can't come to FAITH ever now because EVERYTHING IS SEEN)

They do not have a 'GLORIFIED' body like those of the first resurrection (praise ye the Lord) BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT COMPLETE. THEY ARE SPIRITUALLY DEAD AND WILL REMAIN spirituallly dead until the very end of the Lords Day when they will be TESTED when SATAN is loosed for a short season.

THESE ARE A PART OF THOSE WHO MUST REMAIN DEAD UNTIL THE 1000 YEARS ARE FINISHED. When at the end they CHOOSE LIFE and stand for Christ and don't follow after Satan, THEY ARE OF THE SECOND RESURRECTION, AS THEY RECEIVE THEIR IMMORTALITY AND don't go into the lake of fire. THEY NOW have a glorified body.

JUST LIKE THOSE OF THE FIRST RESURRECTION, THE SECOND DEATH HAS NO EFFECT.


THE SECOND DEATH

THERE IS ANOTHER GROUP, THOSE WHO REMAIN DEAD DEAD (NO rising up till the end))

THESE EITHER FOLLOWED SATAN FROM THE GET GO, ARE VESSELS OF DESTRUCTION OR WERE SAVED AND WALKED AWAY OR WERE SAVED AND WORSHIPPED THE BEAST. THEY RISE UP FOR THE GWTJ and go into the lake of fire.


The last days

We have seen the last day in the life of Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ in which 'the graves were opened'

We have seen the last day of the Old Covenant

We have seen a last day of the temple.

We have seen the 'last day' of the Apostles

We have seen the last day of our loved ones

We will have a last day ourselves

There will be a last day of this age.


ONLY CONTEXT CAN TELL US WHAT THE LAST DAY BEING SPOKEN OF IS.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Prove it, quit making false claims.

I quoted you.

Prove that my quote is in error.

But yes your deal is not biblical no matter how you misquote yourself.

Prove it.

Like I have proven that there can be no pretrib rapture from Scripture.

 

[Absolutely]

So you really DON'T know "when He comes"??

Why do you keep asking this bizarre question? What are you trying to prove, other than you own a broken record?


You haven't proven anything from the Bible yet. So, can you prove the Second Advent is "well after armageddon"?

If that were true, who defeated Satan and the beast and FP then?


Yep. That would refer to all of your views, for sure.[/QUOTE]

Your words friend

Are you unaware of your position???

Here is YOUR POST. YOUR WORDS.;

"""What a devious trick!! Sure, leave out v.5 why don't you. Oh yeah, you did that.
So, let's fix your dishonesty right now.
So you really DON'T know "when He comes"?? When do you think the Second coming will occur then, if not after the Trib.
It is WELL AFTER Armageddon."""

You still disagree with yourself???