Why

[Romans_8]

Actually, it’s more of Augustine of Hippo view of predestination. You cannot deny there is a soiled theme of this throughout scripture.

Yes, predestination is there, as a corporate 'spiritual' blessing through Abraham: "The Lord said, “Shall I hide from Abraham what I am about to do, seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him?" (Gen 18:18).

"Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham. And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “In you shall all the nations be blessed.” So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith". (Galatians 3:7-9)

"those of faith" are predestined to become children of God, though the blessing of Abraham, the man of faith.

 

[Heaven_Bound]

The problem with [predestination] is that when God created Adam and Eve and told them to multiply, predestination extends to every human being. Humans were created to Worship God. That is our predestination, to Worship God. The reason the majority of humans will go to the Lake of Fire, is refusal to Worship God.

And then, Predestination applies to those who Free Willingly chose to accept God's Invitation.

But we can never deny John 3:16 that Christ died for the Everyone, because it states very clearly, [WHOSOEVER BELIEVES] will be Saved.

WHOSOEVER means, who chooses Free Will to accept Christ.

This idealism that God created one people for Heaven and another for Eternal Damnation is A LIE FROM SATAN!

Any church that promotes that LIE should be labelled Satanist!

 

[Aaron56]

Through Adam, all men are condemned to die. The only choice that fundamentally changes the destiny of anyone is to accept Christ as one's Lord and Savior.

 

[Aerials1978]

The problem with [predestination] is that when God created Adam and Eve and told them to multiply, predestination extends to every human being. Humans were created to Worship God. That is our predestination, to Worship God. The reason the majority of humans will go to the Lake of Fire, is refusal to Worship God.

And then, Predestination applies to those who Free Willingly chose to accept God's Invitation.

But we can never deny John 3:16 that Christ died for the Everyone, because it states very clearly, [WHOSOEVER BELIEVES] will be Saved.

WHOSOEVER means, who chooses Free Will to accept Christ.

This idealism that God created one people for Heaven and another for Eternal Damnation is A LIE FROM SATAN!

Any church that promotes that LIE should be labelled Satanist!

What about the man of lawlessness(The Anti-Christ)? He will be born a man. Does he have a choice as to whom he will be or has God ordained that particular individual to be the son of perdition?

 

[christianbeliever144]

The logical answer is: you'd have to study all the books of all the religions well, then make a decision. And I'm sure no one has done that. Most here are Christians because their parents and ancestors are Christians. Not because the window-shopped all relegions and found Christianity to be the best.

Well here's my position. I have been exposed to a few religions (Christian, Jewish, and Islamic) quite intimately. And found the book of the Bible to the most consistent and meaningful from end to end. The God of the Bible IS the true God. And Jesus is His Son. Jesus is the only prophet who rose from the dead and is alive today. All the prophets of other religions are dead and buried.

God's plan of redemption from sins, using His own Self (His Son Jesus) to pay for our sins in order to reconcile us to Him, and be with Him for eternity in heaven, is THE perfect plan among all religions. All you have to do is pray the Lord's Prayer daily Matthew 6:9-13. And make sure to mean the "daily Bread" as the body of Jesus for the forgiveness of sins. And you'll find your life transformed in amazing ways. And keep seeking God by reading the Bible.

 

[christianbeliever144]

I see, this thread has become yet another debate on Calvinism! Okay then. Here's my view:
Stay away from the Calvinist theology!! They depict God as having a “private club” of people for His mysterious enjoyment. They hand-picked some verses and took them out of context without regard to the rest of the Bible. God is outside the time-dimension we live in. He is “I Am”; sees eternity past and eternity future at the same time. He foresaw us who accepted His grace and declared us “the elect”. But only He knows who we are. If God is to do “everything” Himself, including the “selecting of the elect” without us accepting His grace, then that makes us mere brainwashed programmed robots. For those of us who know God by studying the scripture, we know very well that He would never do such a thing. He doesn’t want robots programmed to love Him. He gave us the freedom to choose. And we chose His grace, and He foresaw it. Why is there a Calvinist church today? It needs to be abolished from the face of the earth. It’s only there to collect donations, and to keep contributing to the confusion where people may wrongly categorize themselves as inside that “club” our outside of it.

Matthew 13:12 explains it well: "Whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them."

For us humans, it is a growing state with the knowledge of God as time goes by. But for God, He sits outside time. He sees our beginning and ending. And knowing our tendency to lean towards Him in advance, He helps us along to get there just as He says in Matthew 13:12. The one who has and is given more, is the elect. Nothing mysterious about it. This is what is meant by those that God sends to Jesus. We all start on equal grounds, and some as they hear the word become more interested over time.

Some elements in Calvinism are true, but there needs not be a church or a theology about it. It is confusing to people. Trying to explain how God's deity gives Him access to eternity past and eternity future sounds more like a sci-fi story to people. Shut your doors Calvinists and go home. The "elect" business is God's business. And making it sound like God has "mysterious" reason to choose the elect, is most contradicting to the thousands of pages in the Bible that say otherwise.

 

[Aerials1978]

I see, this thread has become yet another debate on Calvinism! Okay then. Here's my view:
Stay away from the Calvinist theology!! They depict God as having a “private club” of people for His mysterious enjoyment. They hand-picked some verses and took them out of context without regard to the rest of the Bible. God is outside the time-dimension we live in. He is “I Am”; sees eternity past and eternity future at the same time. He foresaw us who accepted His grace and declared us “the elect”. But only He knows who we are. If God is to do “everything” Himself, including the “selecting of the elect” without us accepting His grace, then that makes us mere brainwashed programmed robots. For those of us who know God by studying the scripture, we know very well that He would never do such a thing. He doesn’t want robots programmed to love Him. He gave us the freedom to choose. And we chose His grace, and He foresaw it. Why is there a Calvinist church today? It needs to be abolished from the face of the earth. It’s only there to collect donations, and to keep contributing to the confusion where people may wrongly categorize themselves as inside that “club” our outside of it.

Matthew 13:12 explains it well: "Whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them."

For us humans, it is a growing state with the knowledge of God as time goes by. But for God, He sits outside time. He sees our beginning and ending. And knowing our tendency to lean towards Him in advance, He helps us along to get there just as He says in Matthew 13:12. The one who has and is given more, is the elect. Nothing mysterious about it. This is what is meant by those that God sends to Jesus. We all start on equal grounds, and some as they hear the word become more interested over time.

Some elements in Calvinism are true, but there needs not be a church or a theology about it. It is confusing to people. Trying to explain how God's deity gives Him access to eternity past and eternity future sounds more like a sci-fi story to people. Shut your doors Calvinists and go home. The "elect" business is God's business. And making it sound like God has "mysterious" reason to choose the elect, is most contradicting to the thousands of pages in the Bible that say otherwise.

Certainly God does choose people for specific purpose. I don’t think anyone deny’s that. This isn’t about Calvinism( I take exception with certain doctrines like Tulip). What does scripture say? John chapter 17 really lays out the theology of the the Father and Son and those that were choose and belong to Him.

How does God choose His people? Is it by ordaining, inspirational guidance, etc? I don't have an answer and I don’t think anyone does. If it’s completely libertarian free will, what does psalm 16:9 mean:

A man heart plans his course, but the Lord directs his steps?

 

[Cyberm]

Certainly God does choose people for specific purpose. I don’t think anyone deny’s that. This isn’t about Calvinism( I take exception with certain doctrines like Tulip). What does scripture say? John chapter 17 really lays out the theology of the the Father and Son and those that were choose and belong to Him.

How does God choose His people? Is it by ordaining, inspirational guidance, etc? I don't have an answer and I don’t think anyone does. If it’s completely libertarian free will, what does psalm 16:9 mean:

A man heart plans his course, but the Lord directs his steps?

I know the meaning of that verse but it’s hard to explain.

 

[Heaven_Bound]

What about the man of lawlessness(The Anti-Christ)? He will be born a man. Does he have a choice as to whom he will be or has God ordained that particular individual to be the son of perdition?

Theoretically Speaking, he is the seed of Satan. Since Satan has made his choice before Adam was ever created, his seed is condemned.

 

[Heaven_Bound]

A man heart plans his course, but the Lord directs his steps?

This is Predestination at its very finest. God has directed every human being's footsteps before they were born in order to fulfill God's Will and be aligned with God. However, a man's heart is what the man actually follows. If a man's heart is set towards God, he will fulfill the Will of God. If a man's heart is set against God, he will reject God and do his own will.

 

[Aerials1978]

Theoretically Speaking, he is the seed of Satan. Since Satan has made his choice before Adam was ever created, his seed is condemned.

That’s an interesting answer.

 

[Aerials1978]

This is Predestination at its very finest. God has directed every human being's footsteps before they were born in order to fulfill God's Will and be aligned with God. However, a man's heart is what the man actually follows. If a man's heart is set towards God, he will fulfill the Will of God. If a man's heart is set against God, he will reject God and do his own will.

That I did agree with. I guess where I struggle at times is did God see into the future and knew which individuals would accept or reject Him based in their own accord, or was there a foreordain process that is still being played out? Maybe it’s one of those things that I won’t know or understand this side of eternity.

 

[Heaven_Bound]

That I did agree with. I guess where I struggle at times is did God see into the future and knew which individuals would accept or reject Him based in their own accord, or was there a foreordain process that is still being played out? Maybe it’s one of those things that I won’t know or understand this side of eternity.

God knows the End from the Beginning. But He still treats everyone individually as if they are going to Accept Him and be one of His. On the Cross, He died equally for the Thief who was with Him that day in Paradise, and as well for the Thief, who even at death, refused to acknowledge his own guilt.

It's like when we Witness to others about God. We think we can tell who is really interested and who is just blowing smoke at us. And then more times than none, the person we thought was not interested actually is the one who calls and asks if they can go to Church with us.

But one thing is probably for certain, not 100% but close, if we did not Witness, no one would ask to go to Church.

And, on the flip side, we may walk away from Witnessing and think no one was interested, and they end up going to a Church they know of not connected to us. Which it does not matter as long as they just go.

So, what if many people that the Fore-Knowledge of God knows who will end up in Eternal Damnation, end up there because it was not from rejecting Him, but because we never Witnessed to them?

Technically, shouldn't we be Punished for that? We won't be, but we deserve to be..