Sure to Make a Big Splash!

[Wansvic]

You have a wrong understanding of Acts 2. The baptism present is not water but it is Holy Spirit baptism. It is more easily understood in the original Greek but it is in context not water baptism. You can find water baptism in Acts 8:36-40

The passage in Mat 28 is also not water baptism. It would be far more accurate to see Mat 28 as an immersion in the knowledge of the doctrines surrounding Christ. Truly making disciples among the nations by teaching discipleship from the word of God.

You back up and claim to believe in the blood of Christ and His resurrection yet you fail to trust that Christ is sufficient to save and keep you unto the day of redemption. There is a reason why God saves by grace and not baptisms or other rites and rituals. Christ is completely sufficient to save. The changed heart desires to be obedient but that obedience is sanctification not salvation.

Your refusal to believe does not render the truth ineffective.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

If what you conclude about the scriptures you reference is true, why is obedience to baptism in water seen in these scriptures:

Acts 2:38 - The baptism in the name of Jesus is separate from receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


Acts 8:12-17 Water baptism first, afterward receiving Holy Ghost.

But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.
Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.


Acts 10:44-48 Received Holy Ghost - Afterward they were water baptized.

While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.


Acts 19:2-6 Baptized in Jesus name - Had to be water baptism because afterward Paul laid hands on them to receive the Holy Ghost.

He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

Also others that were water baptized after Jesus' death, burial and resurrection; Acts 8:35-40 Eunuch, 16:28-33 Jailer/family, 16:14-15 Lydia/family, 18:8 Crispus/Corinthian believers )

 

[Dave-L]

This scripture pertains to those complying with water baptism as introduced by John the Baptist. What I am referring to is water baptism into the name of the Lord Jesus that was introduced on the Day of Pentecost.

John the Baptist's water baptism is seen as an introduction to something that would later be modified in order to achieve a spiritual reality by the design of God. The spiritual rebirth relies upon and can only be accessed after the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus.

What makes you think the Apostles didn't use this in their baptizing believers? If it doesn't say it, you cannot say it.

 

[notuptome]

If what you conclude about the scriptures you reference is true, why is obedience to baptism in water seen in these scriptures:

Acts 2:38 - The baptism in the name of Jesus is separate from receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


Acts 8:12-17 Water baptism first, afterward receiving Holy Ghost.

But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.
Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.


Acts 10:44-48 Received Holy Ghost - Afterward they were water baptized.

While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.


Acts 19:2-6 Baptized in Jesus name - Had to be water baptism because afterward Paul laid hands on them to receive the Holy Ghost.

He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

Also others that were water baptized after Jesus' death, burial and resurrection; Acts 8:35-40 Eunuch, 16:28-33 Jailer/family, 16:14-15 Lydia/family, 18:8 Crispus/Corinthian believers )

You are endeavoring to make water baptism essential to salvation. Scripture does not come close to teaching that a person is not saved without water baptism.

You quote scripture that teaches the exact opposite of what you assert is the need for water baptism in salvation. Water baptism is for sanctification not for salvation. You are frustrating grace by forcing the idea of water baptism being needed in salvation.

So no a million times no. Water baptism is not for salvation. You cite Acts 8 but pay no attention to what it teaches.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Wansvic]

What makes you think the Apostles didn't use this in their baptizing believers? If it doesn't say it, you cannot say it.

John the Baptist introduced the concept of water baptism of repentance for the remission of sin. (Luke 3:3) At that time no one's sins could actually be remitted. Neither John or Jesus' apostles had any idea that Jesus would have to die in order to secure redemption for all mankind. Only after Jesus' death, burial, resurrection, ascension were NT believers required to be water baptized into the redemptive name of the Lord Jesus.

One sees Aquila and Priscilla expounding the way of God more perfectly to Apollos who knew only the Baptism of John. (Acts 18:25-26) Also, Paul's comment to the Ephesus disciples speaks to this truth as well. (Acts 19:2-6)

 

[Nehemiah6]

You are endeavoring to make water baptism essential to salvation. Scripture does not come close to teaching that a person is not saved without water baptism.

When someone is shown the truth from the Bible but persists in a lie, that is called WILFUL BLINDNESS. No one is saved by water baptism. That is a dangerous heresy.

 

[dcontroversal]

Water immersion adds ZERO to being saved which is 100% by grace through faith into Christ....Immersion is a testimony to the world of what has taken place in the believer's life....dead to the old man, buried with Christ and resurrected unto a new life....nothing more...nothing less!!!

 

[tourist]

I can only conclude you did not read the entire thread. Jesus Himself stated that water baptism in His name would begin to be preached in Jerusalem. He stated this just prior to His ascension.

John himself stated the he baptizes with water but the one coming after him will baptize with Holy Spirit and fire. The baptism performed by John was inferior to the one performed by Jesus. Jesus never stated in the bible the command to be baptized with water, let alone by full immersion. Jesus never baptized anyone with full immersion in water or with just water in general.

 

[Wansvic]

John himself stated the he baptizes with water but the one coming after him will baptize with Holy Spirit and fire. The baptism performed by John was inferior to the one performed by Jesus. Jesus never stated in the bible the command to be baptized with water, let alone by full immersion. Jesus never baptized anyone with full immersion in water or with just water in general.

Jesus instructed the apostles to baptize. (Matt 28:19) This reference to baptism refers to baptizing by being immersed into water. We know this is true because the apostles do not baptize people with the Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost is given by God. Man's obligation is to have faith, repent and be water baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And man is promised God will give the gift of the Holy Ghost. This promise was to all that the Lord would call. God is still calling people and will continue to do so until the second coming of Jesus.

The command to be water baptized never ceased. John's baptism was just modified to include the use of the redemptive name of Jesus.

 

[Wansvic]

You are frustrating grace by forcing the idea of water baptism being needed in salvation.

To frustrate the grace of God is to attempt to become righteous through adherence to the Old Testament law. (Gal. 2:21)

The requirement of obedience to instructions given first by Peter at Pentecost have no connection to the O.T. law. The need to comply to these God-given instructions is associated with one's spiritual rebirth ONLY possible because of Jesus' death, burial and resurrection. (Gal. 3:10-13)

 

[notuptome]

To frustrate the grace of God is to attempt to become righteous through adherence to the Old Testament law. (Gal. 2:21)

The requirement of obedience to instructions given first by Peter at Pentecost have no connection to the O.T. law. The need to comply to these God-given instructions is associated with one's spiritual rebirth ONLY possible because of Jesus' death, burial and resurrection. (Gal. 3:10-13)

You are not making sense. Water baptism does not contribute to a sinners salvation. You are promoting a false doctrine based on faulty exegesis.

Water baptism is part of sanctification not salvation. Peter did not command water baptism at Pentecost. Peter was speaking to Holy Spirit baptism that accompanies the conversion from sinner to saint.

If you persist in rejecting the truth you heart will become hardened by God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Wansvic]

You are not making sense. Water baptism does not contribute to a sinners salvation. You are promoting a false doctrine based on faulty exegesis.

Water baptism is part of sanctification not salvation. Peter did not command water baptism at Pentecost. Peter was speaking to Holy Spirit baptism that accompanies the conversion from sinner to saint.

If you persist in rejecting the truth you heart will become hardened by God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Peter's reference to baptism in Acts 2:38 is clearly baptism by immersion in water. He goes on to state they will ALSO receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. The gift mentioned is the infilling of the Holy Ghost. (Luke 11:13)

See Acts 8:12-17, 10:44-48, 19:2-6. In every record the people obeyed Peter's words by submitting to water baptism, and received the infilling of the Holy Ghost.

 

[Wansvic]

...Water baptism is part of sanctification not salvation.

One's obedience to the God-given instructions provided at Pentecost, and the infilling of the Holy Ghost result in one's spiritual rebirth.

Afterward, the indwelling Holy Spirit leads the child of God into all truth by shining light on what behavior is acceptable. This process is sanctification. Only after being reborn spiritually can one expect to lead the life of an over-comer. Empowerment to overcome a sinful lifestyle is only possible through the indwelling Holy Spirit. (2 Cor. 7:1)

 

[notuptome]

One's obedience to the God-given instructions provided at Pentecost, and the infilling of the Holy Ghost result in one's spiritual rebirth.

Afterward, the indwelling Holy Spirit leads the child of God into all truth by shining light on what behavior is acceptable. This process is sanctification. Only after being reborn spiritually can one expect to lead the life of an over-comer. Empowerment to overcome a sinful lifestyle is only possible through the indwelling Holy Spirit. (2 Cor. 7:1)

You keep endeavoring to adorn Gods grace with unnecessary and worldly ideas. The Holy Spirit enters the sinners heart the moment the sinner asks Christ to save them from their sin. The new birth is instantaneous with belief.

If what you got does not match with scripture you need to go back and make sure your conversion.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Wansvic]

You keep endeavoring to adorn Gods grace with unnecessary and worldly ideas. The Holy Spirit enters the sinners heart the moment the sinner asks Christ to save them from their sin. The new birth is instantaneous with belief.

If what you got does not match with scripture you need to go back and make sure your conversion.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Please back up your comment with scriptures.

My posts include scripture. Not worldly ideas.

I am unaware of any scriptures that state that the Holy Ghost is received the moment one believes.

The following records provide evidence of when the Holy Ghost is imparted to believers:

The Apostles and the 120 in the upper room previously believed in Jesus' death, burial and resurrection. However, the record shows the indwelling of the Holy Ghost as evidenced by speaking in tongues occurred 50 days after Jesus' resurrection. Everyone was instructed to get water baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus after the experience in the upper room.

Paul's question, "Have you received the Holy Ghost since you believed?" speaks to the truth that people do not instantly receive the Holy Ghost. Paul told the disciples they had to be re-baptized. He water baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus, afterward Paul laid hands on them and they received the Holy Ghost. (Acts 19:2-6)

When the Samaritans believed those things concerning the kingdom and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized. (Acts 8:12) But they did not receive the Holy Ghost. When apostles heard that the Samaritans had received the word of God they sent Peter and John to them. Peter and John prayed for them and they received the Holy Ghost. (Acts 8:17) (Also, ask yourself how Simon knew the people had received the Holy Ghost. Surely something occurred.)

The Gentiles believed Peter's message about the Messiah Jesus and the Holy Ghost was poured out on them and they spoke in tongues just as the Jews did on the Day of Pentecost. Afterward they submitted to water baptism in Jesus' name. (Acts 10:44-48)

 

[Nehemiah6]

The Gentiles believed Peter's message about the Messiah Jesus and the Holy Ghost was poured out on them and they spoke in tongues just as the Jews did on the Day of Pentecost. Afterward they submitted to water baptism in Jesus' name. (Acts 10:44-48)

This one incident is the clearest proof that baptism is not necessary for salvation. Salvation includes the gift of eternal life and the gift of the Holy Spirit. These Gentiles received the Holy Spirit when they believed the Gospel. Water baptism came shortly AFTERWARDS.

And it does not say "in Jesus name" either. That's your own conjecture. Christians have always been baptized according to the commandment of Christ -- in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.

Based on this Scripture, you will need to repent of your false doctrine.

 

[Wansvic]

This one incident is the clearest proof that baptism is not necessary for salvation. Salvation includes the gift of eternal life and the gift of the Holy Spirit. These Gentiles received the Holy Spirit when they believed the Gospel. Water baptism came shortly AFTERWARDS.

And it does not say "in Jesus name" either. That's your own conjecture. Christians have always been baptized according to the commandment of Christ -- in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.

Based on this Scripture, you will need to repent of your false doctrine.

See Acts 10 verse 48-They were baptized in the name of the Lord.

Well after believing in Jesus death, burial and resurrection the Jews received the initial outpouring of the Holy Ghost on Pentecost. Afterward the instruction was given that everyone had to be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. All complied. This is the same thing that happened to the Gentiles.

Remember it was Jesus Himself that stated that repentance and remission of sin would be preached in His name BEGINNING in Jerusalem. (Water baptism in His name)

God's principles are always established by 2-3 witnesses. Please refer to all of the scriptures presented.

 

[tourist]

Please back up your comment with scriptures.

My posts include scripture. Not worldly ideas.

I am unaware of any scriptures that state that the Holy Ghost is received the moment one believes.

The following records provide evidence of when the Holy Ghost is imparted to believers:

The Apostles and the 120 in the upper room previously believed in Jesus' death, burial and resurrection. However, the record shows the indwelling of the Holy Ghost as evidenced by speaking in tongues occurred 50 days after Jesus' resurrection. Everyone was instructed to get water baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus after the experience in the upper room.

Paul's question, "Have you received the Holy Ghost since you believed?" speaks to the truth that people do not instantly receive the Holy Ghost. Paul told the disciples they had to be re-baptized. He water baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus, afterward Paul laid hands on them and they received the Holy Ghost. (Acts 19:2-6)

When the Samaritans believed those things concerning the kingdom and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized. (Acts 8:12) But they did not receive the Holy Ghost. When apostles heard that the Samaritans had received the word of God they sent Peter and John to them. Peter and John prayed for them and they received the Holy Ghost. (Acts 8:17) (Also, ask yourself how Simon knew the people had received the Holy Ghost. Surely something occurred.)

The Gentiles believed Peter's message about the Messiah Jesus and the Holy Ghost was poured out on them and they spoke in tongues just as the Jews did on the Day of Pentecost. Afterward they submitted to water baptism in Jesus' name. (Acts 10:44-48)

I am quite sure that the Holy Spirit has been poured out on you. You certainly are diligent in pursuit of the truth.

 

[Wansvic]

After Jesus ascended into Heaven, the Holy Ghost was poured out upon 120 people in Jerusalem on the Day of Pentecost. And, just as Jesus previously stated in Luke 24:47, the Apostle Peter gave specific instructions pertaining to water baptism. Those wishing to submit to water baptism would be required to do so in the name of the Lord Jesus. The water baptism initially introduced by John the Baptist was still necessary; however, it was modified to include the use of the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT BECAUSE PRIOR TO THE INFILLING OF THE HOLY GHOST NO ONE HAD BEEN WATER BAPTIZED IN THE NAME OF THE LORD JESUS.

There is a misconception that the Jewish and Gentile experiences differed in that God filled the Gentiles with His Spirit prior to them being water baptized. (Acts 10:44-48) The truth is both the Jewish and Gentile people received the Holy Ghost prior to taking on the name of the Lord Jesus in their water baptism.

Lastly, it should be noted that the sequence of one’s compliance to the NT instructions is not what matters. All that matters is obedience to the entire message. This is seen in the conversion experience of the Samaritans. (Acts 8:12-17) And, Paul’s exchange with the Ephesus disciples. (Acts 19:2-6)

 

[SomeDisciple]

THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT BECAUSE PRIOR TO THE INFILLING OF THE HOLY GHOST NO ONE HAD BEEN WATER BAPTIZED IN THE NAME OF THE LORD JESUS.

So, during Jesus' ministry his disciples didn't baptize in the name of Jesus? That seems rather odd. So do you think the Apostles baptized each other in Jesus name after the Holy Ghost was given, then?

 

[Wansvic]

So, during Jesus' ministry his disciples didn't baptize in the name of Jesus? That seems rather odd. So do you think the Apostles baptized each other in Jesus name after the Holy Ghost was given, then?

John was sent to baptize before he even knew Jesus was the promised messiah. (John 1:26-33) John introduced water baptism for the remission of sin. (Mark 1:1-11) It was only after Jesus' death, burial and resurrection that repentance and remission of sin was preached in Jesus' name as prophesied in Luke 24:47. It was in Jerusalem, on the Day of Pentecost, that the Apostle Peter said "Repent, and be baptized everyone of you in the name of the Lord Jesus FOR the remission of sin..." Since Peter stated that everyone was to be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus for the remission of sin one must conclude the Apostles were obedient to the command as well; even though it is not specifically stated in the Word.

Also, the Apostle Paul rebaptized individuals in the name of the Lord Jesus who had previously been baptized by John. And afterward assisted in their receiving the Holy Ghost. (Acts 19: 1-6)

Lastly, Apostle Paul makes it clear why water baptism should be done in the name of the Lord Jesus:

"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin." Rom 6:3-6