The False Teaching (& Truth) of what happens at the Rapture.
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Good detail there cv5. Also `king of Babylon, and `king of the North. (rev. 17 & 18, Dan. 11: 40)
My thoughts are -
THE PEACE NEGOTIATOR
The Middle East has again come into focus on the world stage. There seems no solution to the violent fightings and clashes of many groups. However the reality is that this kingdom is divided, and the Sunni and Shi-ites will not have peace until their long awaited `Messiah` figure comes and joins them together.
God`s word says that it would be a `divided kingdom` partly strong, and partly weak.
` Whereas you saw the feet and toes, partly of potter`s clay and partly of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; ........the kingdom shall be partly strong and partly fragile.` (Dan. 2: 41 & 42)
The leader of this Federation is described in great detail in God`s word. He is a royal person, with strong features; he is quite deceitful with cunning; he comes in peaceably and seizes power by intrigue.
`...a king (royal person) shall arise, having fierce features, who understands sinister schemes.....Through his cunning he shall cause deceit to prosper under his hand...`(Dan. 8: 23 - 25)
` ...he shall come in peaceably, and seize the kingdom by intrigue.` (11: 21)
There is a person of that description who is even now seeking to negotiate peace with the different groups. His name is Ali Hatem Al-Suleiman. He is one of the most prominent leaders of the Sunni Awakening.
In 2006 Ali Hatem entered a strategic alliance with US forces, (against ISIS) which, in combination with the surge in US troops that began in 2007, succeeded in re-establishing a modicum of security in Iraq.
Since then though, the Shi-ite Iraq Government have excluded the Sunni from the police, army and jobs. Thus there is still unrest in Iraq. Ali Hatem desires stability for Iraq through Political means and not through fighting.
He was brought up in cosmopolitan Bagdad and has often spoken publicly of the need for tolerance. He is a crown Prince with ties to royal families across the Arab Gulf and the elite of neighbouring Jordan. His tribe, the Dulaim, is one of the largest tribes in Iraq and is a powerful social, political and economic force. Note Babylon is in its region.
He has a talent for speeches and his title of crown Prince inspire respect and loyalty. He travels to Qatar and the United Arab Emirates to rally Gulf Arabs to his cause.
Someone to watch!
My thoughts are -
THE PEACE NEGOTIATOR
The Middle East has again come into focus on the world stage. There seems no solution to the violent fightings and clashes of many groups. However the reality is that this kingdom is divided, and the Sunni and Shi-ites will not have peace until their long awaited `Messiah` figure comes and joins them together.
God`s word says that it would be a `divided kingdom` partly strong, and partly weak.
` Whereas you saw the feet and toes, partly of potter`s clay and partly of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; ........the kingdom shall be partly strong and partly fragile.` (Dan. 2: 41 & 42)
The leader of this Federation is described in great detail in God`s word. He is a royal person, with strong features; he is quite deceitful with cunning; he comes in peaceably and seizes power by intrigue.
`...a king (royal person) shall arise, having fierce features, who understands sinister schemes.....Through his cunning he shall cause deceit to prosper under his hand...`(Dan. 8: 23 - 25)
` ...he shall come in peaceably, and seize the kingdom by intrigue.` (11: 21)
There is a person of that description who is even now seeking to negotiate peace with the different groups. His name is Ali Hatem Al-Suleiman. He is one of the most prominent leaders of the Sunni Awakening.
In 2006 Ali Hatem entered a strategic alliance with US forces, (against ISIS) which, in combination with the surge in US troops that began in 2007, succeeded in re-establishing a modicum of security in Iraq.
Since then though, the Shi-ite Iraq Government have excluded the Sunni from the police, army and jobs. Thus there is still unrest in Iraq. Ali Hatem desires stability for Iraq through Political means and not through fighting.
He was brought up in cosmopolitan Bagdad and has often spoken publicly of the need for tolerance. He is a crown Prince with ties to royal families across the Arab Gulf and the elite of neighbouring Jordan. His tribe, the Dulaim, is one of the largest tribes in Iraq and is a powerful social, political and economic force. Note Babylon is in its region.
He has a talent for speeches and his title of crown Prince inspire respect and loyalty. He travels to Qatar and the United Arab Emirates to rally Gulf Arabs to his cause.
Someone to watch!
Hi Omegatime,
I also believe that the Feast of Trumpets is at the beginning of the trib. (& throughout). However Pentecost has been fulfilled so I don`t believe that is the 1,335th day.
1,260 days - A/C `s rule.
1,290 days - temple cleansed.
1,335 days - (30 & 15) Feast of Purim, National deliverance on the 15th of Adar in Jerusalem.
I also believe that the Feast of Trumpets is at the beginning of the trib. (& throughout). However Pentecost has been fulfilled so I don`t believe that is the 1,335th day.
1,260 days - A/C `s rule.
1,290 days - temple cleansed.
1,335 days - (30 & 15) Feast of Purim, National deliverance on the 15th of Adar in Jerusalem.
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O
With respect I am stating my opinion that this is utter nonsense. Full seven years would be 2520 days and you are taking the prophet Daniel's message of days and turning them into gibberish.
Dan 9:27 And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week; and for half of the week he shall cause sacrifice and offering to cease-----half the week or middle of the 7 years would be 1260 days, not when Jesus returns.
Millennium is a 1000 years and how do you get 45 days to represent that??????
Dan 9:27 And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week; and for half of the week he shall cause sacrifice and offering to cease-----half the week or middle of the 7 years would be 1260 days, not when Jesus returns.
Millennium is a 1000 years and how do you get 45 days to represent that??????
FreeGrace2 said:
If pretrib rapture was correct doctrine, why isn't there ANY verse that actually shows Jesus taking glorified believers to heaven?
Seems like a huge omit if it were true.
The Bible refers to the resurrection of believers in the singular. There is therefore just one. Not "stages" or "series" of them. Just one.
1 Cor 15:23 shows that ALL believers (those who belong to Him) will be resurrected "when He comes", which is the Second Advent.
And 2 Thess 2:1 says all this in very clear words.
Do you?? I've posted clear verses. I can't help what YOU don't comprehend.
You want facts, huh? Well, I've given you biblical verses, which ARE facts, buddy.
Where is the FACT that Jesus takes glorified believers to heaven? Huh? What verse shows this?
Don't talk to me about facts UNTIL you have some yourself. All you have is presumption.
If pretrib rapture was correct doctrine, why isn't there ANY verse that actually shows Jesus taking glorified believers to heaven?
Seems like a huge omit if it were true.
The Bible refers to the resurrection of believers in the singular. There is therefore just one. Not "stages" or "series" of them. Just one.
1 Cor 15:23 shows that ALL believers (those who belong to Him) will be resurrected "when He comes", which is the Second Advent.
And 2 Thess 2:1 says all this in very clear words.
Do you?? I've posted clear verses. I can't help what YOU don't comprehend.
You want facts, huh? Well, I've given you biblical verses, which ARE facts, buddy.
Where is the FACT that Jesus takes glorified believers to heaven? Huh? What verse shows this?
Don't talk to me about facts UNTIL you have some yourself. All you have is presumption.
In a nutshell, is there any verse that clearly shows Jesus taking glorified believers to heaven?
Because, if there is not, then the ONLY "support" for such an event is based on assumption/presumption.
This isn't complicated. The purpose of the rapture is for living believers to receive their glorified bodies, "when He comes", according to 1 Cor 15:23. That's it. It happens at the Second Advent.
The Bible teaches just ONE resurrection for the saved and ONE for the unsaved. Acts 24:15. If you can prove that this verse doesn't teach this, please explain why.
Since Rev 20:4,5 shows tribulational martyrs being resurrected and reigning with Christ, which clearly involves the Second Advent, we can confidently place both the Second Advent and "rapture" at the end of the Tribulation.
Because, if there is not, then the ONLY "support" for such an event is based on assumption/presumption.
This isn't complicated. The purpose of the rapture is for living believers to receive their glorified bodies, "when He comes", according to 1 Cor 15:23. That's it. It happens at the Second Advent.
The Bible teaches just ONE resurrection for the saved and ONE for the unsaved. Acts 24:15. If you can prove that this verse doesn't teach this, please explain why.
Since Rev 20:4,5 shows tribulational martyrs being resurrected and reigning with Christ, which clearly involves the Second Advent, we can confidently place both the Second Advent and "rapture" at the end of the Tribulation.
O
Ok, we again are in agreement again concerning the antichrist
Feast Trumpets is our starting point ---we begin to count the days
Middle of Tribulation when AC takes his seat in temple--------- 1260 days
Abomination that causes desolation s placed 30 days later-----1290 days
Daniel's Blessed Day------------------------------------------------------1335 days
End of tribulation----------------------------------------------------------2520 days
Consider this year--Feast of Trumpets on Sept 26, 2021
If we look ahead from this date 1335 days we come to May 24th, 2026 which is Pentecost. This 75 days after the AC claims to be God
Here is a calendar calculator to save you time. Do your homework.
Calculator: Add to or subtract from a date (timeanddate.com)
Maybe the Lord was showing us what would be???
Feast Trumpets is our starting point ---we begin to count the days
Middle of Tribulation when AC takes his seat in temple--------- 1260 days
Abomination that causes desolation s placed 30 days later-----1290 days
Daniel's Blessed Day------------------------------------------------------1335 days
End of tribulation----------------------------------------------------------2520 days
Consider this year--Feast of Trumpets on Sept 26, 2021
If we look ahead from this date 1335 days we come to May 24th, 2026 which is Pentecost. This 75 days after the AC claims to be God
Here is a calendar calculator to save you time. Do your homework.
Calculator: Add to or subtract from a date (timeanddate.com)
Maybe the Lord was showing us what would be???
"""Since Rev 20:4,5 shows tribulational martyrs being resurrected and reigning with Christ, which clearly involves the Second Advent, we can confidently place both the Second Advent and "rapture" at the end of the Tribulation."""
Amazing that anyone actually promotes that with no
basis whatsoever.
There is no resurrection AT rev 20.
NONE.
A resurrected group ALREADY RESURRECTED AND SEATED IS CALLED THE FIRST RESURRECTION.
But even beyond that they are CLASSIFIED AS "this is the first resurrection "
Which leaves it as a "dynamic" for the reader. ( NOT A MAGIC STATEMENT saying they are THE ONLY POSSIBLE "first resurrection")
Further demolishing the postrib view is that the SETTING IS WAY,WAY OFF.
That setting is AFTER Armageddon. AFTER SATAN is chained, and after the martyrs are seated.
That scene could be days or weeks AFTER the second coming on horses.
NOW....postribs i suppose do not bother to look at 1 thes 4...
AHEM....drum roll please...THE FIRST RESURRECTION!!!!!
SO THEY are very ignorant to suggest that 1thes 4 is after Armageddon, Satan chained, and the martyrs seated on thrones.!!!!!
Or how bizarre can you get to picture those martyred DURING THE TRIB as receiving thrones and believers martyred last week as having no such reward??????
NO JOKE FOLKS....this is exactly where false doctrine leads.
Amazing that anyone actually promotes that with no
basis whatsoever.
There is no resurrection AT rev 20.
NONE.
A resurrected group ALREADY RESURRECTED AND SEATED IS CALLED THE FIRST RESURRECTION.
But even beyond that they are CLASSIFIED AS "this is the first resurrection "
Which leaves it as a "dynamic" for the reader. ( NOT A MAGIC STATEMENT saying they are THE ONLY POSSIBLE "first resurrection")
Further demolishing the postrib view is that the SETTING IS WAY,WAY OFF.
That setting is AFTER Armageddon. AFTER SATAN is chained, and after the martyrs are seated.
That scene could be days or weeks AFTER the second coming on horses.
NOW....postribs i suppose do not bother to look at 1 thes 4...
AHEM....drum roll please...THE FIRST RESURRECTION!!!!!
SO THEY are very ignorant to suggest that 1thes 4 is after Armageddon, Satan chained, and the martyrs seated on thrones.!!!!!
Or how bizarre can you get to picture those martyred DURING THE TRIB as receiving thrones and believers martyred last week as having no such reward??????
NO JOKE FOLKS....this is exactly where false doctrine leads.
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