The False Teaching (& Truth) of what happens at the Rapture.
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Me
"""Like i said false doctrine has a destination."""
You
"""You have certainly demonstrated that....."""
Decisively.
You now admit rev 20 is only a segment of the resurrection.
And rev 14:14 is a gathering you guys need omitted.
Your doctrine is poorly thought out.
I understand your investment.
You have a lot riding on us being wrong.
Not on you being right.
(That has no bearing on your efforts here.)
Because you are willing to reframe rev 14:14 against 1 thes 4 , it takes all credability from what you are presenting.
You can sorta fool yourself.
But i really don't get the point of it.
"""Like i said false doctrine has a destination."""
You
"""You have certainly demonstrated that....."""
Decisively.
You now admit rev 20 is only a segment of the resurrection.
And rev 14:14 is a gathering you guys need omitted.
Your doctrine is poorly thought out.
I understand your investment.
You have a lot riding on us being wrong.
Not on you being right.
(That has no bearing on your efforts here.)
Because you are willing to reframe rev 14:14 against 1 thes 4 , it takes all credability from what you are presenting.
You can sorta fool yourself.
But i really don't get the point of it.
Ok
Postribbers omit the gathering of the bride.
That alone is a massive red flag.
I know you guys doctrine. I can present it better that you.
That is HOW i KNOW it is a doctrine of omission.
But the apex of heaven has several apexes.
The next one is the gathering of the bride.
Now how in the world can that be omitted, and you guys find a new center of emphasis????
Rev 22
16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.
The SPIRIT AND THE BRIDE SAY COME LORD JESUS.
Pretribbers say that.
Do you?
Postribbers omit the gathering of the bride.
That alone is a massive red flag.
I know you guys doctrine. I can present it better that you.
That is HOW i KNOW it is a doctrine of omission.
But the apex of heaven has several apexes.
The next one is the gathering of the bride.
Now how in the world can that be omitted, and you guys find a new center of emphasis????
Rev 22
16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.
The SPIRIT AND THE BRIDE SAY COME LORD JESUS.
Pretribbers say that.
Do you?
Rev 13:5 - The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise its authority for forty-two months.
42 months = 3.5 years. If he begins his 42 month reign, then he is done at the midpoint. Makes no sense, just as the pretrib rapture makes no sense, since there are no verses that make this clear.
42 months = 3.5 years. If he begins his 42 month reign, then he is done at the midpoint. Makes no sense, just as the pretrib rapture makes no sense, since there are no verses that make this clear.
My position has ALWAYS been that the trib martyrs are just a part of the ONE resurrection of all believers, which is after the trib.
Did you just wake up, or something?
I don't follow this strange sentence. You really need to explain yourself. I have no idea what you are referring to here.
I've always been consistent. So, you need to show I have contradicted myself. Clearly.
lol. No, I just read and BELIEVE what the Bible says. And it doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand the flow from Rev 19 to 20.
If you don't see that at the end of Rev 19 Jesus comes and CONQUERERS the battle of Armageddon and casts the beast and FP into the LoF and chains Satan for 1,000 years and then reigns with the martyrs there, I guess you just DON'T WANT TO SEE the truth.
Which I can't help.
Did you just wake up, or something?
I don't follow this strange sentence. You really need to explain yourself. I have no idea what you are referring to here.
I've always been consistent. So, you need to show I have contradicted myself. Clearly.
lol. No, I just read and BELIEVE what the Bible says. And it doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand the flow from Rev 19 to 20.
If you don't see that at the end of Rev 19 Jesus comes and CONQUERERS the battle of Armageddon and casts the beast and FP into the LoF and chains Satan for 1,000 years and then reigns with the martyrs there, I guess you just DON'T WANT TO SEE the truth.
Which I can't help.
Why would I admit to such stupidity?
The martyrs are what is "only a segment" of the ONE resurrection of the saved. It seems you STILL don't believe that there will be just ONE resurrection for the saved. Why is that? I've shared a number of verses that say exactly that!!
Maybe you just can't grasp the concept here, but I'm not omitting anything. Rev 14 is a SUMMARY of what's coming. You want to believe it is sequential in Revelation, but it can't be, but only if you actually believe the verses that I've shown that SAY that there is ONE resurrection for the saved and one for the unsaved.
Oh, Lordy! How sad. You don't even have a verse that shows your pretrib rapture theory. You haven't even started to think through your own theology.
I don't think you do. You keep making way off the wall statements and claims about my position, which are all totally wrong, as I keep pointing out.
I'm not interested in your errors. I only show the truth of Scripture. it's up to you to believe what the Bible says.
OK, continue your very erroneous mistake of thinking that Rev 14 is sequential, when it isn't.
Actually, and no offense, but it seems you really don't get much. What with all your erroneous comments about what I believe.
Straight up question for you:
How many events of resurrection for the saved are there in Scripture?
If you believe more than 1, please explain WHEN each one occurs and provide Scripture to back your claim up.
Thanks.
The martyrs are what is "only a segment" of the ONE resurrection of the saved. It seems you STILL don't believe that there will be just ONE resurrection for the saved. Why is that? I've shared a number of verses that say exactly that!!
Maybe you just can't grasp the concept here, but I'm not omitting anything. Rev 14 is a SUMMARY of what's coming. You want to believe it is sequential in Revelation, but it can't be, but only if you actually believe the verses that I've shown that SAY that there is ONE resurrection for the saved and one for the unsaved.
Oh, Lordy! How sad. You don't even have a verse that shows your pretrib rapture theory. You haven't even started to think through your own theology.
I don't think you do. You keep making way off the wall statements and claims about my position, which are all totally wrong, as I keep pointing out.
I'm not interested in your errors. I only show the truth of Scripture. it's up to you to believe what the Bible says.
OK, continue your very erroneous mistake of thinking that Rev 14 is sequential, when it isn't.
Actually, and no offense, but it seems you really don't get much. What with all your erroneous comments about what I believe.
Straight up question for you:
How many events of resurrection for the saved are there in Scripture?
If you believe more than 1, please explain WHEN each one occurs and provide Scripture to back your claim up.
Thanks.
Error alert!!! The ONLY "firstfruits" is Jesus Christ Himself. 1 Cor 15:23 - But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.
If you think there can be more than 1 "firstfruits", there is no reason to continue any discussion with you. "Firstfruits" means exactly what it says.
Acts 26:23 - that the Messiah would suffer and, as the first to rise from the dead, would bring the message of light to his own people and to the Gentiles.”
This refers to receiving a glorified (imperishable) body. Jesus WAS the first. And the, per 1 Cor 15:23, ALL believers get theirs, "when He comes" an OBVIOUS reference to the Second Advent, which is AT THE END OF THE TRIBULATION.
You have to actually reject Scripture to believe what you believe.
Back to ya.
You keep making 2 mistakes:
1. you reject the clear verses that have been shared proving there is just one resurrection for the saved, and it occurs at the Second Advent.
2. you have to ADD to Scripture because Scripture DOESN'T SAY what you claim about a pretrib rapture.
If you think there can be more than 1 "firstfruits", there is no reason to continue any discussion with you. "Firstfruits" means exactly what it says.
Acts 26:23 - that the Messiah would suffer and, as the first to rise from the dead, would bring the message of light to his own people and to the Gentiles.”
This refers to receiving a glorified (imperishable) body. Jesus WAS the first. And the, per 1 Cor 15:23, ALL believers get theirs, "when He comes" an OBVIOUS reference to the Second Advent, which is AT THE END OF THE TRIBULATION.
You have to actually reject Scripture to believe what you believe.
Back to ya.
You keep making 2 mistakes:
1. you reject the clear verses that have been shared proving there is just one resurrection for the saved, and it occurs at the Second Advent.
2. you have to ADD to Scripture because Scripture DOESN'T SAY what you claim about a pretrib rapture.
It appears to me that you've left out (not just in this post ^ ) the part about "the dead in Christ SHALL RISE FIRST"... so that the next thing being, "caught up TOGETHER WITH / TOGETHER IN-UNION-WITH them" (meaning, "caught up at the same time as them [/together with them]") means that it's ONE SNATCH-ACTION for both components (of the "one body")... "and SO [/in this way] shall WE ever be WITH [G4862 - UNIONed-WITH] the Lord."
I'm not really seeing this reflected in your posts.
I'm not really seeing this reflected in your posts.
I thought everyone who posts in this thread already knows the sequence. Those who don't know the sequence need to read 1 Thess 4.
Why should I include what should be common knowledge for anyone who posts in this thread?
My emphasis here is in showing that there will be just ONE resurrection (which obviously) includes the living believers also receiving a glorified body. So the whole point is the properly place that single resurrection on the timeline of history.
Those who believe in a pretrib rapture (where 1 Thess 4 is their main passage for it) cannot properly place it. Unless they come up with multiple resurrections, but simply call it "one resurrection" with several "parts", or "stages" or whatever.
Why should I include what should be common knowledge for anyone who posts in this thread?
My emphasis here is in showing that there will be just ONE resurrection (which obviously) includes the living believers also receiving a glorified body. So the whole point is the properly place that single resurrection on the timeline of history.
Those who believe in a pretrib rapture (where 1 Thess 4 is their main passage for it) cannot properly place it. Unless they come up with multiple resurrections, but simply call it "one resurrection" with several "parts", or "stages" or whatever.
Absolutely said:
Exactly.
All this time in the debate you do not know the verses or even care that you are omitting them.
That goes for most postribs.
I KNOW your doctrine.
You guys guess at ours.
Why?
Because you will not take the time to understand the doctrine.
It boils down to " caring". If you guys cared , you would learn what you are up against.
Instead you just guess at it.
That'll be the day.
Exactly.
All this time in the debate you do not know the verses or even care that you are omitting them.
That goes for most postribs.
I KNOW your doctrine.
You guys guess at ours.
Why?
Because you will not take the time to understand the doctrine.
It boils down to " caring". If you guys cared , you would learn what you are up against.
Instead you just guess at it.
That'll be the day.
No.
Abs is correct that the 144,000 are ALSO called "firstfruit" (Rev14:4).
And James 1:18 states, "a KIND of firstfruit" (meaning, there is MORE THAN ONE "kind")
And Lev23 mentions TWO [distinct] "firstfruit" (and this, connected with the idea of "the FIRST of the firstfruit" in Exodus)
And some versions have the word "firstfruit" in 2Th2:13 (which I believe to be an accurate rendering)...
...and all of this is connected with the concept that "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" was "quickened-together-with Him" and "raised-up-together" and "seated-together" IN Christ Jesus, in the heavenlies (that is, WHEN HE was; Eph2:5-6; Col2:12-13; 3:1[-4]... as well as passages such as 1Cor12:12 "[...] so also is THE CHRIST" and 1Cor6:17... etc): Eph1:20-23 WHEN (as to its existence) ... but if one does not know the identification of "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY," in Scripture, then one surely will not see all that is in connection with it, there, either.
Abs is correct that the 144,000 are ALSO called "firstfruit" (Rev14:4).
And James 1:18 states, "a KIND of firstfruit" (meaning, there is MORE THAN ONE "kind")
And Lev23 mentions TWO [distinct] "firstfruit" (and this, connected with the idea of "the FIRST of the firstfruit" in Exodus)
And some versions have the word "firstfruit" in 2Th2:13 (which I believe to be an accurate rendering)...
...and all of this is connected with the concept that "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" was "quickened-together-with Him" and "raised-up-together" and "seated-together" IN Christ Jesus, in the heavenlies (that is, WHEN HE was; Eph2:5-6; Col2:12-13; 3:1[-4]... as well as passages such as 1Cor12:12 "[...] so also is THE CHRIST" and 1Cor6:17... etc): Eph1:20-23 WHEN (as to its existence) ... but if one does not know the identification of "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY," in Scripture, then one surely will not see all that is in connection with it, there, either.
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