1 John reflections.

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OIC1965

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#1
Sep 19, 2020
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#1
1 John 1:1

That which was from the beginning.

this phrase is used seven times in 1 John and twice in second John. Used of:

  • here.
  • An old commandment- “love one another” which we had from the beginning. (1 John 2:7)
  • 2 times.
  • God (1 John 2:13-14) could be specifically referring to Jesus, the Eternal Logos. 2 times
  • That which they (and we) have heard (from the beginning)
  • The message which we have heard (from the beginning.)
  • The commandment which we had (from the beginning) 2 John 5-6)
Which we have

Heard Perfect tense

Seen Perfect tense

Looked upon. (looked closely at, watch contemplatively)

And touched with our hands.

Clearly, this is talking about the disciples experiences with Jesus. They heard His words, the saw Him with their eyes, they watched Him perform miracles, forgive sinners, display the glory of God, and perceived that He was truly the Son of God, and they touched Him before and after the resurrection.

There was a theological heresy in the days of John called Docetism, which believed that Jesus was God (in a sense, not in the sense that we hold Him to be the True God and Eternal Life) but denied His true humanity. This was an extension of the heresy of Gnosticism, which taught that all spirit is good and all physical matter was evil (created by a lesser god) and that since matter was evil, it was impossible that God should become a physical being.

This persuasion was completely anti-Gospel, because if Jesus was not truly human, He could not have died, shed His blood, rose again, etc.

The apostle John was confirming that Jesus was indeed truly God and truly a physical human being, for they had touched Him. They had seen Him eat, etc.

They also touched Him AFTER THE RESURRECTION, demonstrating that Jesus rose BODILY from the dead, not just a resurrection of Spirit, as some false teachers taught then and some also teach even to this day. The Eternal Word through whom God made all things and by whom all things exist, became the man Jesus in order to live a sinless life, die a perfect death on our behalf, and rise again to be a Perfect Saviour to all who believe in Him.

Grammatical question to consider- Verse 1 seems to be referring to Jesus Christ. Why did John use a neuter pronoun instead of a masculine pronoun.
 
Pilgrimshope

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
#2
Sep 2, 2020
14,148
5,722
113
#2
OIC1965 said:
1 John 1:1

That which was from the beginning.

this phrase is used seven times in 1 John and twice in second John. Used of:

  • here.
  • An old commandment- “love one another” which we had from the beginning. (1 John 2:7)
  • 2 times.
  • God (1 John 2:13-14) could be specifically referring to Jesus, the Eternal Logos. 2 times
  • That which they (and we) have heard (from the beginning)
  • The message which we have heard (from the beginning.)
  • The commandment which we had (from the beginning) 2 John 5-6)
Which we have

Heard Perfect tense

Seen Perfect tense

Looked upon. (looked closely at, watch contemplatively)

And touched with our hands.

Clearly, this is talking about the disciples experiences with Jesus. They heard His words, the saw Him with their eyes, they watched Him perform miracles, forgive sinners, display the glory of God, and perceived that He was truly the Son of God, and they touched Him before and after the resurrection.

There was a theological heresy in the days of John called Docetism, which believed that Jesus was God (in a sense, not in the sense that we hold Him to be the True God and Eternal Life) but denied His true humanity. This was an extension of the heresy of Gnosticism, which taught that all spirit is good and all physical matter was evil (created by a lesser god) and that since matter was evil, it was impossible that God should become a physical being.

This persuasion was completely anti-Gospel, because if Jesus was not truly human, He could not have died, shed His blood, rose again, etc.

The apostle John was confirming that Jesus was indeed truly God and truly a physical human being, for they had touched Him. They had seen Him eat, etc.

They also touched Him AFTER THE RESURRECTION, demonstrating that Jesus rose BODILY from the dead, not just a resurrection of Spirit, as some false teachers taught then and some also teach even to this day. The Eternal Word through whom God made all things and by whom all things exist, became the man Jesus in order to live a sinless life, die a perfect death on our behalf, and rise again to be a Perfect Saviour to all who believe in Him.

Grammatical question to consider- Verse 1 seems to be referring to Jesus Christ. Why did John use a neuter pronoun instead of a masculine pronoun.
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great post informative for sure

I don’t think John was concerned about proper English 🙂 or how we view certain words he was just telling the world his witness of Jesus

I sometimes think we are looking at what’s written with a modern veil from what we’ve learned about languages
 
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OIC1965

Well-known member
#3
Sep 19, 2020
2,754
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#3
Pilgrimshope said:
great post informative for sure

I don’t think John was concerned about proper English 🙂 or how we view certain words he was just telling the world his witness of Jesus

I sometimes think we are looking at what’s written with a modern veil from what we’ve learned about languages
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It would be proper Greek not English, but you are probably right in your response to the question.

There are interesting answers to that question out there. The best IMO is that the pronoun is comprehensive and includes everything Jesus was, is, did, and said. The pronoun "that" is referring what they had heard Jesus say, what they saw Him do, all the things that they observed about Him, as well as referring to Jesus Himself. :) So it could be referring to not only the person of Jesus, but His works and His Work, His Words and His Word, His teachings, His commandments, everything.
 
Pilgrimshope

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
#4
Sep 2, 2020
14,148
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#4
OIC1965 said:
It would be proper Greek not English, but you are probably right in your response to the question.

There are interesting answers to that question out there. The best IMO is that the pronoun is comprehensive and includes everything Jesus was, is, did, and said. The pronoun "that" is referring what they had heard Jesus say, what they saw Him do, all the things that they observed about Him, as well as referring to Jesus Himself. :) So it could be referring to not only the person of Jesus, but His works and His Work, His Words and His Word, His teachings, His commandments, everything.
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yes I understand that’s why I was saying I don’t think proper English would be important.

we look back on English words and then decide about verbs and adjectives sort of we study what was before and dissect it and categorize thkngs like humans do
The writers of the Bible weren’t writing from our studies of English and dissection and categorization of adjectives or pronouns they were just witnessing Gods word

we later come and dissect it for study and add ideas according to mans ways of scientifically studying it all

I liked your post though a lot I was just suggesting an answer to your final inquiry at the end there only my own opinion doesn’t make it right

I just meant to say I think we over anylyze the letters and thier proper English placement and identification because it’s our language we look at scriptire through that window and by doing so sometimes we miss what’s being said in the word

God bless
 
O

OIC1965

Well-known member
#5
Sep 19, 2020
2,754
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#5
Pilgrimshope said:
yes I understand that’s why I was saying I don’t think proper English would be important.

we look back on English words and then decide about verbs and adjectives sort of we study what was before and dissect it and categorize thkngs like humans do
The writers of the Bible weren’t writing from our studies of English and dissection and categorization of adjectives or pronouns they were just witnessing Gods word

we later come and dissect it for study and add ideas according to mans ways of scientifically studying it all

I liked your post though a lot I was just suggesting an answer to your final inquiry at the end there only my own opinion doesn’t make it right

I just meant to say I think we over anylyze the letters and thier proper English placement and identification because it’s our language we look at scriptire through that window and by doing so sometimes we miss what’s being said in the word

God bless
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Thank you for your replies, they are greatly appreciated. I realized that you were responding to the final question, and I liked your answer. I also agreed with it to some degree. I was just adding some of my thoughts too. God bless!
 
Pilgrimshope

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
#6
Sep 2, 2020
14,148
5,722
113
#6
OIC1965 said:
Thank you for your replies, they are greatly appreciated. I realized that you were responding to the final question, and I liked your answer. I also agreed with it to some degree. I was just adding some of my thoughts too. God bless!
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yes the great thing here is you can always find differing views to consider from people who mostly All Love Jesus .Makes us think in ways we may not have before .I find a good value in that
 
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