Six denials of Peter

[Artios1]

Thanks to harmony of the gospels which has schooled us in this thinking…. we were taught it was three denials… and since we tend to see what we believe….. we have rolled with the three..... And there was three …and then there was three more…that is what the Bible states.



There were four watches during the course of the night in New Testament times ….the third watch lasted approximately from midnight to 3:00 AM (by modern reckoning), and was called the cockcrowing watch. Typically we think of roosters crowing at sunrise, but the roosters actually did crow between midnight and 3:00 AM ….it was a particular habit of roosters in the bible lands for them to crow three times during the course of the night approximately 12:30, 1:30 and 2:30 AM. …..(This has been thoroughly documented) It is from these three cock-crowing that the night watch from the midnight to 3:00 AM became known as the cockcrow watch.

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From superficial observation, three could not be true. One gospel records a denial while Jesus before Annas. Another gospel records three denials while he was before Caiaphas ….already we have at least 4 denials.

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Following are the six denials…... I used a spread sheet to develop a timeline which was correlated with the denials….that helped me to visualize the event as I went through these. You can use what works for you….or you can dismiss the whole thing and stick with tradition…. it doesn’t matter to me. I am just putting it out there, because it mattered enough to God to have it written

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1) The first denial occurred while Jesus was before Annas. (Jhn 18:15-18)

Peter was accused by a young female doorkeeper as he entered the door from the street to the courtyard.



2) The second occurred while Jesus was before Caiaphas. (Mat 26:69-70,, Luk 22:55-57, Mar 14:66-68a)

The accuser was a young maiden who served the high priest – by the fire in the courtyard, Peter was sitting.



3) The third happened also by the fire in the courtyard, while Jesus was before Caiaphas. The accuser was a man. (Luk 22:58)

First cock crowing ( Mar 14:68b) ….(probably around 12:30 am)​

The prophecies by Jesus which were recorded in Mat 26:34, Jhn 13:38, Luk 22:34 were therefore fulfilled after Peters first three denials and the cock-crowing of mark 14:68b……
However there is no indication that Peter took notice of this first cock-crowing….. it was not until three more denials, another cock-crowing…. and Peter's glimpse of his tortured master that he called to mind the prophecies Jesus had spoken.




4) The fourth occurred while Jesus was before Caiaphas. It took place in the porch area where the door/gate was. The accuser was a young maiden who served the high priest….different from number two. Judging from the location she may have been a doorkeeper (Mat 26:71&72, Mar 14:69 & 70a)



5) The fifth occurred while Jesus was before Caiaphas. It happened in the courtyard again with Peter standing next to the fire. This time there were several accusers that challenged him, citing his Galilean dialect. After this denial Peter began cursing and swearing trying to convince then he was not a follower of Jesus. (Mat 26:73&74a, Mar 14:70b&71, Jhn 18:25)



6) The sixth occurred immediately after the fifth at the fire in the courtyard. The accuser was a servant of the high priest who had been present at the arrest in the garden. He had seen Peter and was confident and affirmed those of the fifth accusation by recognizing Peter….And while Peter spoke his denial the cock crowed (Luk 22:59&60a, Jhn 18:26& 27a)



The Second cock-crowing (Mat 26:74b, Mar 14:72a, Luk 22:60b, Jhn 18:27 (most likely around 1:30 am)


Mar 14:72 And the second time the cock crew. And Peter called to mind (Mar 14:30) the word that Jesus said unto him, Before the cock crow, twice thou shalt deny me thrice. And when he thought thereon, he wept.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

I just don't even know what to think about this.

 

[studentoftheword]

To me this is just another person believing that God;s word is untrustworthy ----and holds errors ---when Scripture itself say it is Truth ------Satan works in people'd minds to get at their True Faith and destroy it causing confusion and doubt ------

The internet can be used to promote good and bad -----so it all depends on who you listen to and what you WANT to Believe ----for as many who want to Write articles and say there are discrepancies in the Bible ----one can find articles to refute the discrepancies -----and so it goes ------

A personal view --belief and a want to believe what we want to believe --------and Who we want to believe -----

This article refutes the OP claim -----So who do you want to Believe is the order of the day -------Read all for yourselves --just posting this

Do the accounts in Matthew and Mark of Peter's denial of Jesus contradict?
Posted on July 7, 2005 by John Oakeswrote in Bible Interpretation, General, Supposed Inconsistencies in the Bible.

https://evidenceforchristianity.org...d-mark-of-peters-denial-of-jesus-contradictr/

I have really been struggling a lot over this one… I believe that the
Bible is the inspired word of God, and thus does not contain obvious error
and contradictions that would make it untrustworthy. Yet upon reading the
gospel accounts of Peter’s denial of Jesus, there seems to be a glaring
contradiction here. In both Mark and

Matthew, we see that a servant girl (or ‘maid’ depending on your
translation) confronts Peter during the first denial. In Mark, it seems
that the same girl confronts him again (most translations have her saying
again) whereas the Matthew account has ‘another’ servant girl approaching
him the second time. How can these two accounts possibly be harmonized?

Let me get to the specific case you bring up. I believe the
appearance of a contradiction which you perceive is created by the way
that Mark is translated into the English. I am looking at my Greek
interlinear which has the Greek words in the original with the English
translation of the word directly below the Greek.
In the Greek text of
Mark 14:68b,69, the original words are “And he went forth outside into the
forecourt and the maidservant seeing him began again to say to the [ones]
standing by, “This man of them is.” The sense I get from Mark is that
when Jesus went into the forecourt there was another maidservant on duty
in there who began again saying to him that Jesus was one of “them” as had
the servant girl working outside. I will admit that if I had never read
Matthew, but only Mark, I might have at least considered the possibility
that the maidservant inside was the same one as outside. The English
translation would have pushed me more strongly in that direction than the
Greek original. However, when I hear the parallel witness, I learn that
the two women were actually different servants. Like I said, unless you
are presented with a glaring contradiction, which I believe is not the
case here, you should do what we did as jurors this past summer.
You
should look for the common thread in the witnesses and ask yourself how
their seemingly contradictory testimony man actually be a different but
complimentary account of the same events. That is exactly what I see
going on in this case.


I say ------Also the number 3 is used in this Scripture ---Peter denies Jesus 3 times which makes sense as the number 3 is the number used for completeness and perfection -----and so it signifies the completeness of God's Plan for Jesus to die on the Cross -----

 

[Chi-town]

I copied this last night, hoping to go through it today. But instead, I stayed up until 330 this morning going through this. I started with sticky notes, but eventually I went to Excel and did a spread sheet, which helped considerably; excel is not my forte.
As I mentioned in a previous post, I have read the gospels well over a hundred times and at one point concluded there were four denials, but I brushed it off as an error.
This helped me tremendously, and the two scripture in Mar 14: 30 and 72 I apparently have glossed over and never read what it said.
Thank you for posting this I almost didn’t see it, so I am going to follow you, I hope that lets me see what you post in the future.
I was reading the previous post and I don’t see this as questioning the bible, more like just the opposite of proving the bible.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I just don't even know what to think about this.

“Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, That this night, before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭26:34‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

“Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, That this night, before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭26:34‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Right. Three times. So, apparently Jesus was in error when He said these Holy Words. What do you think?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Right. Three times. So, apparently Jesus was in error when He said these Holy Words. What do you think?

I believe if Jesus speaks it is so !!! Regarding any and every matter he spoke of

I believe he also gave Peter three times to cover what he had done I believe this relates to peters three denials

“So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.

He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

Verily, verily, I say unto thee, When thou wast young, thou girdedst thyself, and walkedst whither thou wouldest: but when thou shalt be old, thou shalt stretch forth thy hands, and another shall gird thee, and carry thee whither thou wouldest not.

This spake he, signifying by what death he should glorify God. And when he had spoken this, he saith unto him, Follow me.”
‭‭John‬ ‭21:15-19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Peter was crucified and I believe that even though scriptire doesn’t say he was Jesus telling him he would be is absolute proof because his words cannot fail to be as he spoke them

 

[Artios1]

Right. Three times. So, apparently Jesus was in error when He said these Holy Words. What do you think?

I believe if Jesus speaks it is so !!! Regarding any and every matter he spoke of

Mar 14:30
And Jesus saith unto him, Verily I say unto thee, That this day, even in this night, before the cock crow, twice thou shalt deny me thrice.

2x3=6

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Mar 14:30
And Jesus saith unto him, Verily I say unto thee, That this day, even in this night, before the cock crow, twice thou shalt deny me thrice.

2x3=6

I use as many translations as I can get my hands on so that I can better understand the Word of God. I must use 16; something like that. None of them have the wording that yours depicts above. All that I use, and I have just checked the majority of them, say the following:

Mark 14:30 ESV - 30 And Jesus said to him, "Truly, I tell you, this very night, before the rooster crows twice, you will deny me three times."

I'll stick with the majority as the winning philosophy to follow.

 

[Artios1]

I copied this last night, hoping to go through it today. But instead, I stayed up until 330 this morning going through this. I started with sticky notes, but eventually I went to Excel and did a spread sheet, which helped considerably; excel is not my forte.
As I mentioned in a previous post, I have read the gospels well over a hundred times and at one point concluded there were four denials, but I brushed it off as an error.
This helped me tremendously, and the two scripture in Mar 14: 30 and 72 I apparently have glossed over and never read what it said.
Thank you for posting this I almost didn’t see it, so I am going to follow you, I hope that lets me see what you post in the future.
I was reading the previous post and I don’t see this as questioning the bible, more like just the opposite of proving the bible.

Glad you appreciate it…..….kinda funny… one of the previous “replies”…..I put somebody to sleep…. but you, I kept awake.

I am not trying discredit the Word of God…. My attempt, if anything, is to discredit what has long been acceptable practice of harmony of the gospels, which was conceived by man…. not by God.

I think there are 27 different harmonies of the gospels ….all of which have some areas that they have to dismiss some scripture and/or attribute it to error from the writers….which in turn means…. they do not believe that the Bible is given by inspiration from God, but rather, written by the will of man. But if they do believe it’s inspired …… that would mean God is flawed….and that doesn’t fly in my world.

If there was one simple goal that I could stress…. it would be to read what is written….not what you believe is written. There is an example I could give in 1 Cor 12 that 95% of the people get wrong…but primarily this is critical when it comes to the gospels…just because of what harmony has done. I am not saying I always get it right ….I don’t…. but that does not negate the truth of reading what is written.

After all that ….my next post really is not affected by gospel harmony…. but it is in the gospels, and has to do when Judas died….. because the Bible clearly shows him alive after the resurrection …up until the ascension.

 

[Artios1]

I use as many translations as I can get my hands on so that I can better understand the Word of God. I must use 16; something like that. None of them have the wording that yours depicts above. All that I use, and I have just checked the majority of them, say the following:

Mark 14:30 ESV - 30 And Jesus said to him, "Truly, I tell you, this very night, before the rooster crows twice, you will deny me three times."

I'll stick with the majority as the winning philosophy to follow.

It's where man has placed the comma....Jesus didn't use comma's ...
So let me ask ...did the rooster crow twice, or once, after the first 3 denials

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Mar 14:30
And Jesus saith unto him, Verily I say unto thee, That this day, even in this night, before the cock crow, twice thou shalt deny me thrice.

2x3=6

where are you getting six from it doesn’t make sense are you thinking the gospels are accounting different events or I don’t understand why your saying 6

what does how many times a cock crows have to do with Peter denying three times ?

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

It's where man has placed the comma....Jesus didn't use comma's ...

Alright. I stopped right there with the Jesus doesn't use commas remark. I don't have time for stuff like this.

Unwatched.

 

[Artios1]

where are you getting six from it doesn’t make sense are you thinking the gospels are accounting different events or I don’t understand why your saying 6

what does how many times a cock crows have to do with Peter denying three times ?

It had to do with the scripture from #9

I had previously posted Mark 14:30 on #8 which you were a part of, as was 2ndTimothyGroup ….I was responding to your statement of what Jesus said with scripture. “I believe if Jesus speaks it is so !!! Regarding any and every matter he spoke of”

And 2ndTimothyGroup responded to that...
With Mark 14:30 from ESV which is basically the same only it had a comma after twice which would change the entire verse indicating that the rooster crowed twice after 3 denials….

If you remove the comma you have twice …thou shalt deny me thrice……2x3=6

Mar 14:30 And Jesus saith unto him, Verily I say unto thee, That this day, even in this night, before the cock crow twice thou shalt deny me thrice.

As for the 6 denials.... that is in the OP

 

[Pilgrimshope]

It had to do with the scripture from #9

I had previously posted Mark 14:30 on #8 which you were a part of, as was 2ndTimothyGroup ….I was responding to your statement of what Jesus said with scripture. “I believe if Jesus speaks it is so !!! Regarding any and every matter he spoke of”

And 2ndTimothyGroup responded to that...
With Mark 14:30 from ESV which is basically the same only it had a comma after twice which would change the entire verse indicating that the rooster crowed twice after 3 denials….

If you remove the comma you have twice …thou shalt deny me thrice……2x3=6

Mar 14:30 And Jesus saith unto him, Verily I say unto thee, That this day, even in this night, before the cock crow twice thou shalt deny me thrice.

As for the 6 denials.... that is in the OP

Myrah what I’m saying is it doesn’t make any sense I read the op twice it’s not a math problem 2 times three

what I said was I believe what Jesus saids he said plainly Peter would deny him three times …..make better sense what I was saying I mean ? Jesus said Peter would deny him three times that’s how many times Peter denied him is my position not 6 but three exactly like Jesus said

how
Many times the cock had crowed before those three denials doesn’t increase the number of denials is my point I don’t understand ere you are coming up with six denials is all I’m meaning to ask

Jesus plainly said “three times “ you are saying six times what I’m asking is how have you came up with that ? I’ve read your op it just doesn’t make sense to me anyways

before peters three denials

“Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, That this night, before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭26:34‬ ‭

after peters three denials

“And Peter remembered the word of Jesus, which said unto him, Before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice. And he went out, and wept bitterly.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭26:75‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I see what you quoted here

“And Jesus saith unto him, Verily I say unto thee, That this day, even in this night, before the cock crow twice,

thou shalt deny me thrice.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭14:30‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s just a difference of whether the cock crowed once or twice after his third denial it doesn’t increase the amount of denials Just two differing witnesses on how many times the cock would crow before his third denial both accounts agree that Peter denied three times

“And when she saw Peter warming himself, she looked upon him, and said, And thou also wast with Jesus of Nazareth. But he denied, saying, I know not, neither understand I what thou sayest.

And he went out into the porch; and the cock crew.

And he denied it again. And a little after, they that stood by said again to Peter, Surely thou art one of them: for thou art a Galilaean, and thy speech agreeth thereto. But he began to curse and to swear, saying, I know not this man of whom ye speak. And the second time the cock crew.

And Peter called to mind the word that Jesus said unto him, Before the cock crow twice, thou shalt deny me thrice. And when he thought thereon, he wept.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭14:67-68, 70-72‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s what I’m saying in no account does Peter deny more or less than three times mark says the cock would crow twice and Matthew says the cock would crow not naming how many times but they agree perfectly on the amount of denials