The Lord's Day (Rev. 1:10) - Sabbath (7th) or Sunday (1st) or Eschatological day or something else?

[ChristianSubMissionary]

(POLL - Multiple Choice allowed, change of choice allowed, and ongoing choice allowed; after voting, then present your evidences in thread response please)

The Lord's Day (Rev. 1:10) - Sabbath (7th) or Sunday (1st) or Eschatological day or something else? The Bible says:

Revelation 1:1 - The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Revelation 1:2 - Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

Revelation 1:3 - Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

Revelation 1:4 - John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;

Revelation 1:5 - And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

Revelation 1:6 - And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Revelation 1:7 - Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Revelation 1:8 - I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Revelation 1:9 - I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 1:10 - I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

The answer is in the context, as it always is (Isaiah 8:20, 28:10,13; John 10:35; 2 Peter 1:19-21; Genesis 40:8).

 

[ChristianSubMissionary]

https://ia904600.us.archive.org/21/...- The Seventh Day The Sabbath Of The LORD.png

A deeper study in the Powerpoint:

Revelation 1 Vs 10 The Lord's Day The Seventh Day The Sabbath Of The LORD And Lots Of Extras (Powerpoint) : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

 

[ChristianSubMissionary]

What about the other texts that say ...

Colossians 2:

https://ia804605.us.archive.org/3/i...-image/Colossians 2vs14-16 Nutshell Image.png

Romans 14:

https://ia904609.us.archive.org/14/items/romans-14_202111/Romans 14.png

1 Corinthians 16:2:

https://ia904607.us.archive.org/12/...mage/1 Corinthians 16 Vs 2 Nutshell Image.png

Acts 20:7:

https://ia904608.us.archive.org/19/items/acts-20-vs-7-nutshell-image/Acts 20 vs 7 Nutshell Image.png

Matthew 11:28:

https://ia804602.us.archive.org/28/...bbath The Rest Of God - The 7th Day Image.png

Hebrews 4:9:

https://ia804604.us.archive.org/26/...-image/Hebrews 4 Vs 9 - Sabbatismos Image.png

John 5:18:

https://ia803100.us.archive.org/34/...esus 'Broke' The Sabbath - Nutshell Image.png

Who Was The Sabbath really Made for?

https://ia804600.us.archive.org/9/i...o Was The Sabbath Really Made For - Jesus.png

Pope Sylvester & Melanchthon quotes:

https://ia804602.us.archive.org/17/...pe Sylvester And Melanchthon Quotes Image.png

LDS sources say?

https://ia804605.us.archive.org/35/... Is The Sabbath - Their Own Sources Image.png

Sabbath on made for Israel, who is the real Israel?

https://ia804601.us.archive.org/25/items/the-real-israel-jesus/The Real Israel - Jesus.png

Sabbath Poem:

https://ia804607.us.archive.org/9/i...-online/MS Paint _ Microsoft Paint Online.png

Extras, Hebrews 9:12:

https://ia904602.us.archive.org/28/...ews 9 Vs 12 The Holy Place Ta Hagia Image.png

Sabbath of Sabbaths - Day Of Atonement - Investigative Judgment:

https://ia804608.us.archive.org/32/...udgment Antitypical Day Of Atonement 1844.png

 

[ChristianSubMissionary]

I voted and presented the evidence that is behind that vote. I hope many more will vote and present their evidence. I would hope that discussion might take place after voting and evidence is presented for that vote. If I, or anyone changes their mind from discussion or study, please update the vote appropriately, and the reasons for the new vote.

 

[Oblio]

As I understand it, the Lord rested on the seventh day, and blessed it. Scripture talks about honoring the sabbath, so, as I seek the Lord's will for me in this, I do.

 

[Omegatime]

Could be understood as the day of the Lord

 

[ResidentAlien]

It's whatever day you want it to be:

"One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind."—Romans 14:5

It baffles me why when we have such a clear teaching on this people still don't get it.

 

[ChristianSubMissionary]

It's whatever day you want it to be:

"One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind."—Romans 14:5

It baffles me why when we have such a clear teaching on this people still don't get it.

The context is clearly speaking about days of feasting and fasting, those days which are associated with eating and drinking. Please see the Romans 14 section above. Then turn, and read:

Luke 16:15 - And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

 

[ChristianSubMissionary]

Could be understood as the day of the Lord

I am curious as to your evidence for that position. Please, tell us in the forum why and how you reached your conclusion, or possibility.

 

[Omegatime]

I am curious as to your evidence for that position. Please, tell us in the forum why and how you reached your conclusion, or possibility.

From the greek manuscript it s possible to understand the scripture as the Day of the Lord . No where else is the term Lord's day used to indicate a day of the week. John was probably using this terminology to explain events inside the tribulation.

 

[ChristianSubMissionary]

From the greek manuscript it s possible to understand the scripture as the Day of the Lord . No where else is the term Lord's day used to indicate a day of the week. John was probably using this terminology to explain events inside the tribulation.

What "greek manuscript" do you refer to?

The term is used throughout scripture, see:

“The Lord's day” according to scripture (KJB), is the 7th day, the sabbath day of the Lord:

Genesis 2:1-3,4 - … God [the LORD] … day …

Exodus 16:23 - … the LORD … day …

Exodus 16:25 - ... the LORD … day …

Exodus 20:8-11 - … the LORD … day …

Exodus 31:15 - … the LORD … day …

Exodus 35:2,3 - … the LORD … day …

Deuteronomy 5:12,14 – … the LORD … day …

Isaiah 56:6 - … the LORD … [day] …

Isaiah 58:13 - … [the LORD's] … day …

Isaiah 66:22,23 – … the LORD … [day] …

Jeremiah 17:21 - … the LORD … day …

Matthew 12:8 - … the Lord … day …

Mark 2:28 - … the Lord … day …

Luke 6:5 - … the Lord … [day] …

Revelation 1:10 - 'the Lord's day'

 

[Blik]

It's whatever day you want it to be:

"One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind."—Romans 14:5

It baffles me why when we have such a clear teaching on this people still don't get it.

From the time Mary made the discovery that Christ had risen, that discovery was on Sunday morning, there have been people who say that changed the Sabbath from the seventh day to the first.

If we follow Christ we treat the seventh day as the Sabbath. Christ did not change anything of his father.

Paul writes we can choose our own Sabbath: Romans 14:5, 6: "One person esteems one day above another, another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord ".

I believe that what Paul heard from the Lord on this subject means that it isn't worth fighting over, what is important for us is living for the Lord.

The one thing that I feel sure is against the Lord is saying we can ignore his instructions to labor six days with only one day of the week designated as Sabbath. You cannot make Sabbath be all seven days and follow the Lord. . ."

 

[JStates]

It's whatever day you want it to be:

"One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind."—Romans 14:5

It baffles me why when we have such a clear teaching on this people still don't get it.

This.

Remember when Jesus spoke with Peter and the disciples and told them the keys to the kingdom were in their hand, what they bound would be bound, etc.?

Well, right within your Bible there are several recorded instances where the early church chose to meet on the first day of the week. And who were the leaders of the early church? The apostles. That right there, combined with what ResidentAlien has posted, means it's perfectly fine to worship on Sunday. Or Saturday. Or Thursday.

God established a general pattern/principle in Genesis. Set aside a day for the Lord. In the 10 commandments, that pattern is reiterated. By the way, it's remembering to set aside a day to worship that the 10 commandments encapsulates, NOT the working six days. Exodus 20 lays it out like, "get your work done in the six days, but you'd BETTER remember to set aside a day for the Lord."

Is it okay to work only four days, then? Or two? Or one? Or nine on, five off, or whatever? Sure. Just make sure you are setting aside time dedicated to the Lord, is how I understand things. Keep in mind that Adam was young and perfect, and generations of genetic load have weakened and sickened humanity. Not all of us are capable of working six full days in a row. Other of us have to work strange schedules to keep our jobs. Etc.

What is ABSOLUTELY UNBIBLICAL AND CULTISH is adding a REQUIREMENT to worship on a certain day in order to be saved/born again/a child of God. That is a devilish lie. That would be adding WORKS to the Gospel.

 

[JStates]

Ah, didn't even see the poll. I should mention some things in light of that. Firstly, we cannot be certain that our current week actually aligns with the original Creation week, so there's that. There's simply not enough data to be able to prove that issue one way or another.

Muddying the waters somewhat is that I have read that the Romans - and probably other cultures too - did not adhere to a seven day week always.

Then there's the Sun standing still in the OT... how did THAT affect the flow of time?

So anyone who says you HAVE to worship on a certain day or else is just wrong. They cannot even prove they are worshiping on that day themselves.

Final thought: the phrase "the day of the Lord" can mean several different things in the Bible which can be confusing.

 

[ResidentAlien]

The context is clearly speaking about days of feasting and fasting, those days which are associated with eating and drinking. Please see the Romans 14 section above. Then turn, and read:

Luke 16:15 - And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

I don't need to see anything, I've seen it all before. There were Judaizers then and there are Judaizers now.

 

[ResidentAlien]

This.

What is ABSOLUTELY UNBIBLICAL AND CULTISH is adding a REQUIREMENT to worship on a certain day in order to be saved/born again/a child of God. That is a devilish lie. That would be adding WORKS to the Gospel.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[ChristianSubMissionary]

I don't need to see anything, I've seen it all before. There were Judaizers then and there are Judaizers now.

I am unsure what you mean by the statement about "Judaizers" in the context of the topic. Can you clarify this for me?

 

[ChristianSubMissionary]

This.

Remember when Jesus spoke with Peter and the disciples and told them the keys to the kingdom were in their hand, what they bound would be bound, etc.?

Are you referring to?:

Matthew 16:19 - And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

There are several keys in scripture (see Luke 11:52; Revelation 1:18; Isaiah 22:22; Revelation 3:7; Revelation 9:1; Revelation 20:1). The "bound" and "loose" is not authority to change God's law. The context is authority within the church to accept persons or reject persons:

Matthew 18:15 - Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.

Mathew 18:16 - But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

Matthew 18:17 - And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

Matthew 18:18 - Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Matthew 18:19 - Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 18:20 - For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Then follows the parable about forgiveness among the body of believers, Matthew 18:21-35, which also ties to the 70x7 of Daniel 9:24, for God gave the children of Israel (after the flesh) 70x7 of repentance, but ultimately they went past the patience of God (Matthew 23:32; Acts 7:1-60).

Paul even gives an example in 2 Corinthians about this authority within the church:

1 Corinthians 5:5 - To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

2 Corinthians 2:10 - To whom ye forgive any thing, I forgive also: for if I forgave any thing, to whom I forgave it, for your sakes forgave I it in the person of Christ;

The contexts in each place, have nothing to do with changing God's law.

Well, right within your Bible there are several recorded instances where the early church chose to meet on the first day of the week.

The body of believers may gather on any and every day with no injunction anywhere found in scripture against such, and in truth they met "daily", "continually", etc of both Jews and Gentiles, (Matthew 26:55; Mark 14:49; Luke 22:53, 24:33,36; Acts 19:9) and likewise among the followers of Jesus Christ (Luke 24:51,53; Acts 1:3,9, 2:46-47, 5:42, 6:1, 16:5, 17:11,17; Hebrews 3:13, etc).

Christians gathered on every day of the week, when possible, as did the Jews.

Act_2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,

Act_2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

Act_5:42 And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ.

Act_6:1 And in those days, when the number of the disciples was multiplied, there arose a murmuring of the Grecians against the Hebrews, because their widows were neglected in the daily ministration.

Act_16:5 And so were the churches established in the faith, and increased in number daily.

Act_17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Act_19:9 But when divers were hardened, and believed not, but spake evil of that way before the multitude, he departed from them, and separated the disciples, disputing daily in the school of one Tyrannus.

Paul even preached daily:

Act_17:17 Therefore disputed he in the synagogue with the Jews, and with the devout persons, and in the market daily with them that met with him.

The first day of the week was no more special than any other of the six working days. Yet the sabbath, the 7th day, the Lord's day was always special, always gathered on and therein rested.

None of that extra gathering, is qualification of disobedience to (breaking) the Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:1-17), especially the 4th (Exodus 20:8-11) in its explicit command to "rest" and not "work" "the seventh day the sabbath of the LORD".

For instance, there is no injunction in scripture, that a Christian or a group of Christians cannot gather together on any day of the week. As for instance, on the first day there can be business meeting, prayer, devotionals, etc. On the second and third day can be church activities, devotion, prayer, etc. On the fourth day, a common day for gathering for prayer meeting, business, etc. On the fifth day can have fellowship, devotion, service in the community, etc. On the 6th day can be vespers after all the prep is done. The 7th day is the day of rest from common labour, and for sacred (holy) convocation (gathering). The only day commanded for "rest" from common labour (never "holy" labour) is the 7th day. This is what separates the 7th from the other days. There is a giant misunderstanding about this, and many think that when someone brings up the 7th day, they think that no other days are for "worship". That is a gross misunderstanding. All days, every day, are for the worship of God just as the 4th commandment (Exodus 20:8-11) deals with all 6 days and the 7th day. Worship God 24/7/365. Yet, only the 7th day is the day of God's rest. I pray that this is clarified for many.

Paul in the book of Acts, and in his Epistles (Romans to Hebrews) meets with Jews, Gentiles and Christians upon the ”sabbath” (the 7th day) many times (Acts 13:14,27,42,44, 15:21, 16:31, 17:2, (3 consecutive sabbaths) 18:4 (“every sabbath”; also vs 11, a “year and six months”, which is 52 weeks + 26 weeks, being 78 consecutive sabbaths met together on by both Jew and Gentile with the Apostle Paul and others, and in Acts 18:23, “he had spent some time there” (several sabbaths); in Act 19:8, “for the space of three months” (12 sabbaths); in Acts 19:10, “continued by the space of two years” (104 sabbaths), “in Acts 19:22, “for a season” (several sabbaths), in Acts 20:3, “three months” (12 sabbaths), and in Acts 20:7 (afterward, meets with the disciples again that night which begins the next day), and in Acts 20:18,31, “all seasons, ”a space of three years” (156 sabbaths)).

 

[ChristianSubMissionary]

And who were the leaders of the early church? The apostles.

Yes, under the Headship of Jesus, by the Holy Ghost (Ephesians 2:20; John 16:13), and Jesus very clearly stated that He came not to alter or change one word of the law of God (Matthew 5:17-20), and prophecy foretold that Jesus would magnify the law (magnification never changes the fundamental truth, but simply gives a more enhanced view of that which already exists, deepening it) and make it honourable (Isaiah 42:21).

That right there, combined with what ResidentAlien has posted, means it's perfectly fine to worship on Sunday. Or Saturday. Or Thursday.

That is a misunderstanding of the intent of the thread and its topic, even of the commandment (Exodus 20:8-11) itself. Please see my previously reply, in regards worship of God should always be 24/7/365. However, as stated, none of the other days of the week (1-6) did God say to "rest" from common labour. It was only the 7th day. The issue is not about worship of God on days 1-6 (of course, by all means do that), but if the commandment is not followed, then worship of God did not actually take place in the 7th day, for then one did something other than what God commanded and is no longer worship of God, but of something or someone else. I hope that is clarified now.

God established a general pattern/principle in Genesis. Set aside a day for the Lord. In the 10 commandments, that pattern is reiterated. By the way, it's remembering to set aside a day to worship that the 10 commandments encapsulates, NOT the working six days. Exodus 20 lays it out like, "get your work done in the six days, but you'd BETTER remember to set aside a day for the Lord."

You are slightly mistaken here. It is not "a" (indefinite article) 'day' that we choose at our whim. God rested "the" (definite article, specific) "seventh day", and commanded that specific day to be kept "holy".

Is it okay to work only four days, then? Or two? Or one? Or nine on, five off, or whatever? Sure.

No. That violates the commandment. God dictates the pattern for mankind, and did so even in example in Genesis 1:1-2:3. There is also a misunderstanding that work only takes place on certain days of the week. The commandment (Exodus 20:8-11) is clear that work takes place all 7 days of the week. It is just that there is a distinction made between the common labour and the holy labour. Jesus even demonstrated this in John 5:17. Yet Jesus was very clear about the difference in the 'work', see Matthew 12:12. The Bible is very clear about idleness. Even Paul reiterated this in several of his epistles (see 2 Thessalonians 3:7-8, and others).

Just make sure you are setting aside time dedicated to the Lord, is how I understand things.

That is the misunderstanding again. We do not 'set aside time', as all of our time belongs to the LORD. Every last moment of every single day. Worship does not begin and end. It is a constant living abiding walk with God. Also, again, we do not get to choose when to "rest" outside of God's commandment, and example. His "rest" did not change in example (even in Jesus' death he kept the 7th day holy, by 'resting' in the Tomb the entirety of the time, and upon the first day of the week, got up, got dressed, and went back to work as our Priest) or in timing. In order to change the timing, God Himself would have to either undo the 7th day, or set a new day, neither of which God did. The 7th day is still there since creation (or as Hebrews 4 says, "from the foundation of the world").

Keep in mind that Adam was young and perfect, and generations of genetic load have weakened and sickened humanity. Not all of us are capable of working six full days in a row. Other of us have to work strange schedules to keep our jobs. Etc.

That is a misunderstanding of what "work" is in scripture. That is the modern mentality of a 9-5, etc. The common work in scripture is as simple as even maintaining one's yard (field), which cannot be done upon the 7th day. The commandment also takes into account emergencies (as Jesus also pointed out), Matthew 12:11. However, emergencies are not the norm, nor should ever set the norm.

What is ABSOLUTELY UNBIBLICAL AND CULTISH is adding a REQUIREMENT to worship on a certain day in order to be saved/born again/a child of God. That is a devilish lie. That would be adding WORKS to the Gospel.

Again, you have a great misunderstanding of what the Topic is about, what I have said, and of the commandment itself, and even of how the disciples related to it in the NT. In other words, what you have presented is an incorrect picture, and then commented upon that faulty picture. It is usually identified with straw-manning, but I do not say you are doing that on purpose. I am saying that you have simply misunderstood the intent of the topic, etc. I pray you (or any) are not offended by what is stated here.

 

[JStates]

Yes, under the Headship of Jesus, by the Holy Ghost (Ephesians 2:20; John 16:13), and Jesus very clearly stated that He came not to alter or change one word of the law of God (Matthew 5:17-20), and prophecy foretold that Jesus would magnify the law (magnification never changes the fundamental truth, but simply gives a more enhanced view of that which already exists, deepening it) and make it honourable (Isaiah 42:21).

That is a misunderstanding of the intent of the thread and its topic, even of the commandment (Exodus 20:8-11) itself. Please see my previously reply, in regards worship of God should always be 24/7/365. However, as stated, none of the other days of the week (1-6) did God say to "rest" from common labour. It was only the 7th day. The issue is not about worship of God on days 1-6 (of course, by all means do that), but if the commandment is not followed, then worship of God did not actually take place in the 7th day, for then one did something other than what God commanded and is no longer worship of God, but of something or someone else. I hope that is clarified now.

You are slightly mistaken here. It is not "a" (indefinite article) 'day' that we choose at our whim. God rested "the" (definite article, specific) "seventh day", and commanded that specific day to be kept "holy".

No. That violates the commandment. God dictates the pattern for mankind, and did so even in example in Genesis 1:1-2:3. There is also a misunderstanding that work only takes place on certain days of the week. The commandment (Exodus 20:8-11) is clear that work takes place all 7 days of the week. It is just that there is a distinction made between the common labour and the holy labour. Jesus even demonstrated this in John 5:17. Yet Jesus was very clear about the difference in the 'work', see Matthew 12:12. The Bible is very clear about idleness. Even Paul reiterated this in several of his epistles (see 2 Thessalonians 3:7-8, and others).

That is the misunderstanding again. We do not 'set aside time', as all of our time belongs to the LORD. Every last moment of every single day. Worship does not begin and end. It is a constant living abiding walk with God. Also, again, we do not get to choose when to "rest" outside of God's commandment, and example. His "rest" did not change in example (even in Jesus' death he kept the 7th day holy, by 'resting' in the Tomb the entirety of the time, and upon the first day of the week, got up, got dressed, and went back to work as our Priest) or in timing. In order to change the timing, God Himself would have to either undo the 7th day, or set a new day, neither of which God did. The 7th day is still there since creation (or as Hebrews 4 says, "from the foundation of the world").

That is a misunderstanding of what "work" is in scripture. That is the modern mentality of a 9-5, etc. The common work in scripture is as simple as even maintaining one's yard (field), which cannot be done upon the 7th day. The commandment also takes into account emergencies (as Jesus also pointed out), Matthew 12:11. However, emergencies are not the norm, nor should ever set the norm.

Again, you have a great misunderstanding of what the Topic is about, what I have said, and of the commandment itself, and even of how the disciples related to it in the NT. In other words, what you have presented is an incorrect picture, and then commented upon that faulty picture. It is usually identified with straw-manning, but I do not say you are doing that on purpose. I am saying that you have simply misunderstood the intent of the topic, etc. I pray you (or any) are not offended by what is stated here.

I'm not offended at all, but I notice you (intentionally?) skirted around something I mentioned in one of my posts.

Can you demonstrate that the week we observe today lines up with the Creation week? What if we're off by a day or two?

The fact is that no one can prove that the week we've got now is synchronized with the original Creation week, which means that any assertion that a CERTAIN day MUST be adhered to as the seventh day of worship is nonsense.

But feel free to correct me if you can somehow prove that the modern week lines up with Creation week.