Observations on the Holocaust

[JStates]

Skimmed through the posts here, and some things occur to me:

1. It's easy to look back and judge people, saying "Why didn't they leave?" Some good answers were given to that, so I'll ask another question; "Why haven't we revolted?" From the 90's and Ruby Ridge, Vashon Island, Waco and many other murders and mass slaughters by the Clintons; and many since then as well. Why have we not stood up? And now we have the insanity going on all over the US. We have the outright theft of an election by avowed Communists, and still no revolution. Why? I tried for many years, but even the so called "militias" would not act back when just showing up would have been enough. Now I fear it may take much more.

Lesson: we are human and have the same failings as the Jews that stayed did. Many did see what was happening and took action, leaving Germany and Russia. The poor risked death walking overland and sneaking into Israel. The wealthy early on were able to leave, but often becoming poor in the process. My wife's father narrowly escaping Nazi Germany to the UK where he was fortunate to have family who would sponsor him. So many saw, and many left risking all in the process. But many more stayed hoping that at some point it would all blow over. And many of those had no choice. Would you have risked taking a family to freedom if it might mean some or all dieing?

Now, knowing that in oppressive regimes it is likely your family will be killed along with you, and knowing that at Waco USA children were burned or suffocated while armored vehicles blocked their escape, just why haven't you taken a stand against what you see happening today? Maybe some of you in different ways have (other than posting on the internet), but maybe you/we need to do more.

2. It's a movie! So the producers and director did not focus on Jewish spirituality. That does not mean they had no faith. I would posit that, having talked to survivors and studied that time their faith was for the most part very strong. Saying they had no faith because a movie did not say they did is like saying Trump did nothing because CNN said he didn't. Gotta cry 'Bull!' on either statement.

Lesson to learn here is use your head; consider the source. Look into it yourself.

3. Someone touched on the idea of the Jews as a disease, but attributed it all to Communism. Not true. Communists were considered a disease for the same reason as Jews: they were hated and the Nazi's wanted to get rid of them. Not all (or even most) German Jews were Communists. Many eastern European Jews were because they had been raised in a Communist system, and it's all they knew. But many of them hated Communism because they had experienced it. They were primarily killed for being Jews, not Communists.

To understand the idea of people being classed a disease we must understand the root ideology. And it wasn't Nazism, it was (then) modern medicine. Look up the "science" of Eugenics. And this movement was if anything stronger in the US than in Germany. Medical doctors were given the authority to kill infants they thought flawed without consent, covering their crimes with falsified death certificates. "Inferior" or "undesireable" races were sterilized without consent or knowledge, right here in the US of A.

In Germany the first gas chambers were not in concentration camps, but in medical sanitariums. The insane, mentally retarded, and handicapped children were the first victims. And you guessed it, death certificates were falsified and parents notified after the fact. But these "diseases" were being eradicated from German society. Can't have defectives polluting a master race.

From there is was a small step to also classify people who were different as a disease and do what we always try to do with disease: eradicate it. Communists, yes, because they were competitors in the oppressive regime game. Jews and Gypsies because they were different, and we can't trust different people, right? Then finally men and women like Pastor Niemoller and Corrie Ten Boom- good Christians but they stood up against what they saw happening under the Nazi regime. They must be infected, right? Quarintine 'em and maybe kill them when people have forgotten (Pastor Niemoller was killed shortly before liberation).

The point is the first act of wholesale murder by a government is to demonize then classify as something undesirable those it hates, mistrusts, or fears. And support for such classifications often come from sectors we do not expect: medicine, religion (not faith), or those ever so 'tolerant' leftists.

4. Some have said no one wanted them. Mostly true, however some countries did take them on a quota basis. And the Phillipines said they'd take every Jew that could make it there. Long way and a lot of water, but still the offer was made. But by and large, the posters who said that are correct. There was a lot of anti-Semitism in the US at the time, especially in the NE US where most of the political power resided; so to our shame we turned most away.

Point here is we are usually the last refuge for those oppressed. Where will we go when we've lost it here?

Good thoughts. The Sun is setting on the American Empire. Already, this is not the America we thought it was. As you said, when America is finally completely destroyed, the world will be a much crueler place.

Someone shared a valuable quote recently. I cannot remember if it was here, or in a stream I've watched, or a comment I've read on some underground news site. It doesn't matter though.

The quote was about how the ordinary patriot just wants to live quietly with as little government interference as possible. When he sees government encroaching upon his rights and liberties, he quietly tries to avoid them and keep living a quiet and peaceful life with his family. In the back of his mind, and at the very bottom of his heart, he knows he can fight back and maybe even win against totalitarianism, but he also knows that if he does so the peaceful person who he is will be gone forever.

I will disagree with you in that I DO NOT believe showing up is enough. Patriots showed up on January 6 but the Deep State turned the whole narrative on its head for THEIR own purposes.

Eventually we will have to fight - and we will - but no one wants to open those floodgates upon the sea of blood beyond. We will probably lose ourselves. We will lose many good things we have in life right now. We will be risking much for only the possibility of truth and liberty in return.

Don't get me wrong, I'm ready for that fight, and if the time comes I'll do my part. But only fools will be rejoicing when it arrives.

 

[JStates]

It's a different matter in Israel. You can become a Hindu, a Sikh, New Ager...whatever, but become a Christian and you'll lose everything.
You're seen as a traitor. From what I've learned.

I watched the testimony of a Jewish fellow a few years ago. He was in training to become a rabbi, and came from a family with a long line of rabbis, when he became a Christian. Upon his conversion, he was disinherited by his family and homeless for a while. While homeless, they tried to bribe him with money and a home to disavow Jesus and come back to Judaism.

 

[cdan2]

I will disagree with you in that I DO NOT believe showing up is enough. Patriots showed up on January 6 but the Deep State turned the whole narrative on its head for THEIR own purposes.

Eventually we will have to fight - and we will - but no one wants to open those floodgates upon the sea of blood beyond. We will probably lose ourselves. We will lose many good things we have in life right now. We will be risking much for only the possibility of truth and liberty in return.

Agree, however note I said back then showing up would have been enough. And I meant showing up everywhere in force, armed, and willing to stand against what was happening. Politicians and bureaucrats are for the most part cowards. They fear an armed populace. The difference then and now is the further back we go the more people would support freedom. Now at least 2 generations of our children have been completely brainwashed to the point half of them want socialism. They could roll over us with tanks and the masses would cheer. Now I fear if we stand (and stand we should), we'd best be ready to take cover and shoot.

 

[cdan2]

I watched the testimony of a Jewish fellow a few years ago. He was in training to become a rabbi, and came from a family with a long line of rabbis, when he became a Christian. Upon his conversion, he was disinherited by his family and homeless for a while. While homeless, they tried to bribe him with money and a home to disavow Jesus and come back to Judaism.

There is a LOT of pressure on a Jew who accepts Jesus. Reaction against this ranges from disgust, mistrust, ostracization, and even hatred. My wife has gotten it from both sides since she became Christian. But there is also a lot of love and acceptance from both. But Jews do tend to distrust Christians based mostly on 2000 yrs of oppression, repression, and outright slaughter in the name of Jesus. Also many Christians who supported the Jews turned away when they had the option to save themselves. Many of course did not, and they acknowledge this. But we all tend to remember the hurts more than the healing.

 

[ZNP]

Skimmed through the posts here, and some things occur to me:

1. It's easy to look back and judge people, saying "Why didn't they leave?" Some good answers were given to that, so I'll ask another question; "Why haven't we revolted?"

We are in a spiritual warfare and the instructions and training are in the NT.

2. It's a movie! So the producers and director did not focus on Jewish spirituality. That does not mean they had no faith.

Obviously it is a docudrama trying to depict a variety of responses. Still I would argue that they looked on most of the Rabbis as weak and powerless beginning around 1940. If they Rabbis had spoken to move to Israel and moved prior to 1935 they would not have appeared weak or powerless. My point is that it is your job as a teacher of the word to know what God is doing, and if you explain away a tough speaking and saying to move to Israel is a tough speaking, then you also will become weak and powerless.

4. Some have said no one wanted them. Mostly true, however some countries did take them on a quota basis. And the Phillipines said they'd take every Jew that could make it there. Long way and a lot of water, but still the offer was made. But by and large, the posters who said that are correct. There was a lot of anti-Semitism in the US at the time, especially in the NE US where most of the political power resided; so to our shame we turned most away.

Point here is we are usually the last refuge for those oppressed. Where will we go when we've lost it here?

Christians have been told that if we are not welcome in this city move to the next and our job is to witness to the whole world and then the end will come.

 

[ZNP]

Part 5 -- "do what you are told unto the end and that will convince them that what you are doing is right" -- isn't that what we see today, it is a though they have no shame. Regardless of how immoral and wicked, just pretend that it is right and they think others will also think the same.

 

[ZNP]

The overwhelming lesson I learned watching this is that the vast majority of people in the world are not in any way prepared for the pure evil of Satan, the Satanists, and the FreeMasons. 99% cannot believe that the 1% could be so evil so any suggestion they are is seen as paranoid conspiracy theory.

Meanwhile there are those who will wake up to what is going on but they also are not prepared to fight the spiritual warfare. They might be like Samson who had a major achilles heel issue in not understanding the spiritual warfare.

So then how do we fight the spiritual battle? First, 6/7th of the battle is defensive. Learning how to stand despite all the attack and having done all to stand. Second you take the battle to the enemy with the word of God, the instant word spoken by the Spirit. Fighting the battle is shining light in the dark and putting salt on the germs. Third you understand that the judgement begins with the house of God, unless you have passed through the fire you cannot stand in the fire. Fourth, the battle is the Lord's our job is to have faith in the Lord, stand on His word, proclaim His praise, speak the truth in love.

 

[ZNP]

Germany had 13.6 million soldiers during WWII, they killed an estimated 11 million in the Holocaust.

This is the argument for the 2nd amendment. If those 11 million had guns, and in a country like the US it would have been very easy to get them, you can see how impossible it would be for the Germans to wage a world war while having 11 million people internally fighting back with guns. The 11 million don't have to kill 1 for 1, even if they were being killed 3:1 they would probably wound 2 for every one killed.

Right now we have an information war. When Biden declares that anyone who is not presenting the party line on various topics will be categorized as a domestic terrorist then the war against the truth has been declared.

Think how many Christians don't want to make waves, want to go along, let them shut down the church, and do whatever the dictators demand. How pathetic, even after knowing the truth.

 

[ZNP]

One thing that is particularly galling is how the Jews continued to work for the Germans even once they knew they were being treated abusively. Once the Germans labeled the Jews with Gold Stars that should have been the red line. Not working for them -- if possible you leave Germany, if not you do what Gandhi taught with passive resistance. You don't build their camps, you don't cooperate in any way. The reason the Germans wanted to build the camps was so that no one would see their abuse. If Jews were being beaten and shot in the streets you can't hide it. Also the reason they wanted the camps was so they could kill 10,000 a day, you could never have the police shoot and kill 10,000 Jews in a city like Berlin or Warsaw in a single day.

Their thought was if I don't do what they say they'll kill me. What they should have realized is if I do do what they say I will be complicit in these murders and instead of killing 1 person they will kill 100.

This is why the masks are a red line and vaccine passports are a red line. Passive resistance like the Trucker protest is one possible response, leaving cities with these mandates is another. Both are very effective. If NYC loses its tax base they'll have to turn the screws on those who are left and that will only cause more to leave. Then everyone can see that the cities with the mandates were being run by the worst government that destroyed the cities.

 

[ZNP]

There is a scene in part 5 where the men come back from working and discover the women's barracks where their wives were is empty. They realize their wives have been gassed. One man breaks down and asks "why doesn't someone say no to them?"

Think about that, when the Government said that Churches could not talk politics or they would lose their tax status did they say no? is abortion a political issue or a matter of the Bible? Is it the government's place to tell churches to ignore the Bible about the sin of homosexuality? Why didn't they say no to the government? When they shut down churches because of the pandemic but left the casinos open why didn't they say no? When they mandated masks without any basis why didn't they say no? When they mandated the vaccine or else you lose your job why didn't anyone say no?

It is like a road, it forks off of the constitution which says the government will make no law to either support or hinder religion, and yet you turned off of that constitution and began taking the road down to Jericho, a place of censorship, where right is wrong and wrong is right, a place with wimpy Christians marching in line into the gas chambers.

 

[cdan2]

We are in a spiritual warfare and the instructions and training are in the NT.

Those instructions are all through the 66 book Bible we have. Shoot-fire, even in the Apocrypha of the RC's. And I have the books of the Ethiopic Bible and they are in there! Too many Christians assume everything they need to study is in the NT. We were given a Bible. Men have given their lives to bring that to you over the centuries. To tell them all you need is this handy pocket NT is just wrong. Nothing wrong with a pocket NT or the NT itself. But without the OT it is less than half the knowledge and understanding you need.

Obviously it is a docudrama trying to depict a variety of responses. Still I would argue that they looked on most of the Rabbis as weak and powerless beginning around 1940. If they Rabbis had spoken to move to Israel and moved prior to 1935 they would not have appeared weak or powerless. My point is that it is your job as a teacher of the word to know what God is doing, and if you explain away a tough speaking and saying to move to Israel is a tough speaking, then you also will become weak and powerless.

I really don't care what some docudrama thought of the rabbis, the Jews, the Germans, or anyone's opinion on it. My point is you and others basing your opinions on a movie is beyond silly- it is dangerous. Please tell me you don't vote ...

Christians have been told that if we are not welcome in this city move to the next and our job is to witness to the whole world and then the end will come.

Well, if you live in the last refuge and you are flushed out, what good will it do you to go door to door? When Christians were told that Jesus was talking about witnessing, not hiding from Germans.

You read the NT, but you have little understanding. And that's because you did not read the OT.

 

[cdan2]

One thing that is particularly galling is how the Jews continued to work for the Germans even once they knew they were being treated abusively. Once the Germans labeled the Jews with Gold Stars that should have been the red line. Not working for them -- if possible you leave Germany, if not you do what Gandhi taught with passive resistance.

Are you serious? Passive resistance; we're not talking about billions of people and a fairly benign and at least somewhat humane and relatively small occupying force such as Ghandi faced. We are talking about NAZI's! And they wanted to kill all the Jews, not just pacify them. The choice was work or die. Period. Passive resistance ... this is what comes of basing your beliefs, your history, and your preparedness instructions on movies (sorry, docudrama's) and a quick overview of the NT only.

 

[ZNP]

Are you serious? Passive resistance; we're not talking about billions of people and a fairly benign and at least somewhat humane and relatively small occupying force such as Ghandi faced. We are talking about NAZI's! And they wanted to kill all the Jews, not just pacify them. The choice was work or die. Period. Passive resistance ... this is what comes of basing your beliefs, your history, and your preparedness instructions on movies (sorry, docudrama's) and a quick overview of the NT only.

Yes, I'm serious, Gandhi got the strategy from the Bible.

 

[ZNP]

A burnt offering

This was not a pointless death. For 70 years we have paid attention, it is the governing principle for this last generation. They showed us by their sacrifice that if you allow Satan to give you orders he will march you into the ovens. You must listen to the Lord, follow the Lord, even if it appears to do so is to go to the cross. As one character said, everyone dies, might as well make it worth something.

 

[cdan2]

Yes, I'm serious, Gandhi got the strategy from the Bible.

It's not about Ghandi! It is about Jews facing Nazis. Ghandi just had to look hungry and ride on top of the train wearing diapers. Hear this; understand this: had the Jews done that they would have immediately been killed-- *every*last*one*of*them*. They did what they had to in order to survive another day in hopes of liberation. And your idea that they were somehow weak for doing so is ludicrous. Those who did see liberation founded the new nation of Israel with few weapons, outnumbered hundreds to one by well trained and equipped armies which surrounded them. Many of the Israeli "soldiers" were little more than elderly and children fresh off the boat. And to make matters worse their enemies were not just at the borders, they ere among the Jews throughout the land. But they fought and prevailed, not just in that war but in subsequent wars as well- better equipped perhaps, but still massively outnumbered. So Ghandi is irrelevant. And when the enemy is dedicated to eradicating your people passive resistance is a poor strategy. YOU, my friend will be the one marching meekly to your execution with that as a strategy!

 

[ZNP]

It's not about Ghandi! It is about Jews facing Nazis. Ghandi just had to look hungry and ride on top of the train wearing diapers. Hear this; understand this: had the Jews done that they would have immediately been killed-- *every*last*one*of*them*. They did what they had to in order to survive another day in hopes of liberation. And your idea that they were somehow weak for doing so is ludicrous. Those who did see liberation founded the new nation of Israel with few weapons, outnumbered hundreds to one by well trained and equipped armies which surrounded them. Many of the Israeli "soldiers" were little more than elderly and children fresh off the boat. And to make matters worse their enemies were not just at the borders, they ere among the Jews throughout the land. But they fought and prevailed, not just in that war but in subsequent wars as well- better equipped perhaps, but still massively outnumbered. So Ghandi is irrelevant. And when the enemy is dedicated to eradicating your people passive resistance is a poor strategy. YOU, my friend will be the one marching meekly to your execution with that as a strategy!

They were not massively outnumbered. 11 million walked passively to their death in the camps, Germany had 13 million soldiers, but on top of this there were Jews who fought.

2nd of all you have no idea what you are talking about with Gandhi. You sound like an idiot.

 

[cdan2]

They were not massively outnumbered. 11 million walked passively to their death in the camps, Germany had 13 million soldiers, but on top of this there were Jews who fought.

2nd of all you have no idea what you are talking about with Gandhi. You sound like an idiot.

To you I'm sure I do.

11 million Jews, MOSTLY children, women with children, husbands and fathers who did not want to risk their families being shot dead with them, and the elderly. These are the ones you say should have gone up against the best army in the world with, what, their bare hands? Their Peace placards and diapers? An army that was ordered to eradicate them. An army that often thought it sport to kill them. An army that, if you took your head out and actually studied history you'd know was often on methamphetamines as a matter of policy (resulting in their rapid deployments and advances), but also producing an army of men who were paranoid, anxious, angry, had poor judgement (and lots of guns) and a false sense of being (thought way too almost as highly of themselves, or way too much a loss of self worth). Sound like someone you want to mess with?

I think I will take the advice of Samuel Clemens now, "Never try to teach a pig (read that a "fool") to sing ("understand"). You'll waste your time and annoy the pig.

(Leaving, going upwind now ... )

 

[arthurfleminger]

To you I'm sure I do.

11 million Jews, MOSTLY children, women with children, husbands and fathers who did not want to risk their families being shot dead with them, and the elderly. These are the ones you say should have gone up against the best army in the world with, what, their bare hands? Their Peace placards and diapers? An army that was ordered to eradicate them. An army that often thought it sport to kill them. An army that, if you took your head out and actually studied history you'd know was often on methamphetamines as a matter of policy (resulting in their rapid deployments and advances), but also producing an army of men who were paranoid, anxious, angry, had poor judgement (and lots of guns) and a false sense of being (thought way too almost as highly of themselves, or way too much a loss of self worth). Sound like someone you want to mess with?

I think I will take the advice of Samuel Clemens now, "Never try to teach a pig (read that a "fool") to sing ("understand"). You'll waste your time and annoy the pig.

(Leaving, going upwind now ... )

CDAN2, you are correct in your post. Why didn't these two Jews stand up and fight the Nazis? After all they outnumbered the German soldier by a margin of 2 to 1?
Einsatzgruppen murder Jews in Ivanhorod, Ukraine, 1942 (cropped) - Ivanhorod Einsatzgruppen photograph - Wikipedia

 

[ZNP]

The strategy of the Jews as a group prior to and during WWII was to "go along to get along". That is what enabled the Germans to kill 11 million.

Yes it is true that if they had employed a strategy of revolt they would have also died. Not 11 million, but it could have been a million dead.

The difference is that Germany forced to fight domestic battles internally from city to city would have greatly curtailed their ability at hegemony and global conquest.

Killing 11 million people and then burying or burning them is a huge job. The Germans didn't have the manpower to do it so more than half the work was done by the Jews. They helped in every way possible. Everyone had the same excuse, I follow orders otherwise they will kill me too.

If no one followed orders they would have certainly killed some, but they would have been killed in the streets of the German cities for all to see and would not have been hidden. The horror and crime would have been on full view for all to see.

So then what was the red line, at what point do you have to realize I must stand against this. When they "othered" you with little badges so you could identify who was the dirty, disease ridden Jew and who wasn't. That was a red line. When they moved people into Ghettos that was a red line.

One thing is undeniable, when Herzog started talking about the Jews moving to Israel that was the time to go. 100% of those who listened and obeyed would have avoided the holocaust. When Hitler was spreading his vile rhetoric about Jews it would have been an opportunity to leave Germany. You would have suffered loss but you could still escape. Once they started putting gold stars on the Jews you might not have been able to escape anymore (depending on how elusive you could be), you certainly would not be able to escape with anything more than your life. But if you could not escape the only other alternative was to be a man, stand up, and fully reject any obedience to Hitler or his regime. Once they put you into Ghettos the only option left was to fight.

 

[Oblio]

Hindsight is 20/20. I am not convinced that anyone else would do any better. What kind of a stupid argument is this? 6 million innocent men, women, and children were murdered by one of the most evil men ever. Hitler was a monster...unless you're a Nazi!
Then there's the church that stood by and watched...