The False Teaching (& Truth) of what happens at the Rapture.
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Take all those 'pre trib' verses and stick them with the return of Christ when the two witnesses rise up from the earth and there you will have it all. OH, and nothing will conflict. BUT don't expect every verse to give every detail as God provides us with wisdom.
Only thing you need now, is to have FAITH that God will see you through. So, put on the gospel armor as He has told you to do and everything you need to know to endure to the end and to receive the promises is found there. If beheading is too much for you don't worry, there are those who do not feel the same way and he will not put on you more than you can bear. Just don't be deceived. Remain faithful to God. Don't fall away to the false promises.
What you cannot defeat is your utter failure to provide any verse that has Jesus taking glorified believers to heaven.
And that is what your whole theory is based upon, right? That's why you call it a "pretrib rapture".
Yet, the Bible says absolutely nothing about such a trip that is tour guided by Jesus.
And that is what your whole theory is based upon, right? That's why you call it a "pretrib rapture".
Yet, the Bible says absolutely nothing about such a trip that is tour guided by Jesus.
You have quite the imagination. You are going to have to actually explain yourself to prove that I am in error and how your obvious claim about things on earth are in heaven (of course there are. Everyone can read the Bible and see for themselves) "route" my error.
But of course, you are not one to actually explain yourself. You'd rather major in the minors by all your childish little quips, over and over.
But of course, you are not one to actually explain yourself. You'd rather major in the minors by all your childish little quips, over and over.
You are correct overall brother AB but you are misdiagnosing the 144,000's timing and where they reside. And maybe who they are. There are other ways to price 100 percent the Rapture is pre trib.
We come back from Heaven in Rev. 18 AFTER having married the Lamb/Jesus, then in Rev. 20:4 those who refused to take the Mark of the Beast are only then raised and judged. He doesn't get that proves post trib is not a possibility.
In Rev. 14:1 the 144,000 are on the Mt. of Olives with Jesus but its metaphoric, they are still in the Petra/Bozrah area, Jesus is paining a picture that his landing in Jerusalem will save the Jewish/Israeli peoples. They are with Christ in Spirit, because they (1/3 who repent in Zechariah 13:8-9)repented just before the DOTL. Rev. 14 is The Harvest Chapter. We see the Wheat ?(Jews) being harvested by Jesus, we see the Wicked Grapes being placed in the Wine-press of God's Wrath in verse 17 and in a FLASHBACK in verse 14 we see Jesus calling the Church to Heaven pre trib.
The 144,000 from every tribe is like the 10 Virgin Brides that represent all Christendom. The 144,000 "Male Virgins" are no more male or virgin than all of us in the Church are female and virgin, we are made Virgins by Jesus' blood. The number 10 = completion, as seen with the 10 Virgins. Thus when we have 12 (Fulness) x 12 x 10 (Completeness) x 10 x 10 that is simply God SHOUTING this is ALL Israel who repents. That is why they are seen in Rev. 7 just before God's Wrath falls in Rev. 8. God says hold back the winds (judgments) until we have them protected. These are the 1/3 or 3-5 million Jews who flee Judea at the 1290, just 30 days before the 1260 (Rev. 8 asteroid strike)
We come back from Heaven in Rev. 18 AFTER having married the Lamb/Jesus, then in Rev. 20:4 those who refused to take the Mark of the Beast are only then raised and judged. He doesn't get that proves post trib is not a possibility.
In Rev. 14:1 the 144,000 are on the Mt. of Olives with Jesus but its metaphoric, they are still in the Petra/Bozrah area, Jesus is paining a picture that his landing in Jerusalem will save the Jewish/Israeli peoples. They are with Christ in Spirit, because they (1/3 who repent in Zechariah 13:8-9)repented just before the DOTL. Rev. 14 is The Harvest Chapter. We see the Wheat ?(Jews) being harvested by Jesus, we see the Wicked Grapes being placed in the Wine-press of God's Wrath in verse 17 and in a FLASHBACK in verse 14 we see Jesus calling the Church to Heaven pre trib.
The 144,000 from every tribe is like the 10 Virgin Brides that represent all Christendom. The 144,000 "Male Virgins" are no more male or virgin than all of us in the Church are female and virgin, we are made Virgins by Jesus' blood. The number 10 = completion, as seen with the 10 Virgins. Thus when we have 12 (Fulness) x 12 x 10 (Completeness) x 10 x 10 that is simply God SHOUTING this is ALL Israel who repents. That is why they are seen in Rev. 7 just before God's Wrath falls in Rev. 8. God says hold back the winds (judgments) until we have them protected. These are the 1/3 or 3-5 million Jews who flee Judea at the 1290, just 30 days before the 1260 (Rev. 8 asteroid strike)
FreeGrace2 said:
You really mean "pretrib rapture", don't you? Because you still haven't cited/quoted any verse that has Jesus taking glorified believers to heaven.
Not interested. But I CAN show you clear verses that prove that there is just ONE resurrection (with accompanying rapture) and that that one resurrection occurs "when He comes" which is at the Second Advent, which is at the end of the Trib.
We like to call it a POST-Trib event. For that reason.
No, your theories are way off, since you cannot prove them from Scripture, since Scripture doesn't mention what you claim about Jesus taking glorified believers to heaven.
You really mean "pretrib rapture", don't you? Because you still haven't cited/quoted any verse that has Jesus taking glorified believers to heaven.
Not interested. But I CAN show you clear verses that prove that there is just ONE resurrection (with accompanying rapture) and that that one resurrection occurs "when He comes" which is at the Second Advent, which is at the end of the Trib.
We like to call it a POST-Trib event. For that reason.
No, your theories are way off, since you cannot prove them from Scripture, since Scripture doesn't mention what you claim about Jesus taking glorified believers to heaven.
I would sure like to see that 100% proof that the rapture is pre-trib. ABS won't or can't find any verses that show Jesus taking glorified believers to heaven. Maybe you will be able to do that.
I'd sure appreciate it.
Hold on. Rev 20:5 says clearly that the resurrection of trib marytrs is the FIRST resurrection and the Bible says there is ONE for the saved and ONE for the unsaved. So the FIRST resurrection, involves believers and occurs after the Trib. That is cleary a POST-trib event.
Well, good luck proving a pretrib rapture, since the SINGLE resurrection occurs post trib.
I'd sure appreciate it.
Hold on. Rev 20:5 says clearly that the resurrection of trib marytrs is the FIRST resurrection and the Bible says there is ONE for the saved and ONE for the unsaved. So the FIRST resurrection, involves believers and occurs after the Trib. That is cleary a POST-trib event.
Well, good luck proving a pretrib rapture, since the SINGLE resurrection occurs post trib.
2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.
8 We are troubled on every side, yet not distressed; we are perplexed, but not in despair;
9 Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed;
10 Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body.
11 For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.
8 We are troubled on every side, yet not distressed; we are perplexed, but not in despair;
9 Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed;
10 Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body.
11 For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.
1Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:
7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ
8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:
9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.
13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
14 As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:
15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:
That would be every Christian. NOT AS A COLLECTIVE but as an individual. Just like the 'churches' THE MESSAGES GO OUT TO ALL THE ASSEMBLY BUT IT IS
HE THAT MUST OVERCOME, IT IS HE THAT MUST ENDURE TO THE END. THE INDIVIDUAL. THAT IS WHY PRE TRIB RAPTURE IS NOT POSSIBLE, HE MUST ENDURE TO THE END. IF THERE IS MORE TO GO THEN THE END HAS NOT ARRIVED. WE KNOW THE END HAS ARRIVED WITH THE
ALIVE AND REMAINING ARE CHANGED. THEN THERE IS NO MORE TO BE CHANGED.
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:
7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ
8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:
9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.
13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
14 As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:
15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:
That would be every Christian. NOT AS A COLLECTIVE but as an individual. Just like the 'churches' THE MESSAGES GO OUT TO ALL THE ASSEMBLY BUT IT IS
HE THAT MUST OVERCOME, IT IS HE THAT MUST ENDURE TO THE END. THE INDIVIDUAL. THAT IS WHY PRE TRIB RAPTURE IS NOT POSSIBLE, HE MUST ENDURE TO THE END. IF THERE IS MORE TO GO THEN THE END HAS NOT ARRIVED. WE KNOW THE END HAS ARRIVED WITH THE
ALIVE AND REMAINING ARE CHANGED. THEN THERE IS NO MORE TO BE CHANGED.
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Please show me the church and the Lamb being married before the return of Christ.
I went looking and found THIS, (and it is a parable not a time line)
but this CAN'T BE IT
AS THIS takes place RIGHT AT THE WHITE THONE JUDGEMENT AND THESE ARE GUESTS
NOT THE BRIDE.
Matthew 22:4 Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.
5 But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:
6 And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them.
7 But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.
8 Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.
9 Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.
10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.
GWTJ
11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
14 For many are called, but few are chosen.
THEN I FOUND THIS BUT THIS ISN'T PRE TRIB EITHER AS EVIDENCED BY WHAT TAKES PLACE BEFORE
Revelation 19:2 For true and righteous are His judgments: for He hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of His servants at her hand.
Revelation 19:3 And again they said, Alleluia And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.
DEFINITELY NOT PRE TRIB
Revelation 19:4 And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia.
Revelation 19:5 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great.
Revelation 19:6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.
Revelation 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
AGAIN, AFTER JUDGMENT SO NOT POSSIBLE TO BE PRE TRIB
Revelation 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
Revelation 19:9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.
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