when will the most evil doctrin in the world get banned on this site.

[Heaven_Bound]

In the flesh yes. In the spirit, no.
The spirit is eternally secure in Jesus.

When we read about Lot, Noah, so many others, it came down to their choosing to obey and submit to God's Command.
Lot, had he looked back, he would be like his wife.
Noah, had he not built the Ark, he would have drowned.

Had we not Believed and Submitted to Christ, we are Lost.

But we have a lot of say in how things turn out by whether we obey or not.

This is why we can CHOOSE to be in God's Perfect Will and Salvation and we can Choose not to be.

 

[RichMan]

When we read about Lot, Noah, so many others, it came down to their choosing to obey and submit to God's Command.
Lot, had he looked back, he would be like his wife.
Noah, had he not built the Ark, he would have drowned.

Had we not Believed and Submitted to Christ, we are Lost.

But we have a lot of say in how things turn out by whether we obey or not.

This is why we can CHOOSE to be in God's Perfect Will and Salvation and we can Choose not to be.

You believe we can choose to take our soul out of the hands of Jesus and I do not.
We can choose to live for Him or not.
But once a son, always a son.
I still see your belief as your salvation is in your hands and my is in the hands of Jesus.
Trust in yourself if you wish, I will trust in Jesus to KEEP me saved.

 

[Magenta]

First of all, I am using your Verse example for a point but it is in no way directed at you!

I love this Verse and example because we learn a couple things here.

1. Satan has to ask God for permission to try us [like Job, but in Job God mentioned to Satan before Satan tested him]

2. Jesus said, HE PRAYS Peter's Faith won't fail.

So what does that tell us, it tells us that Peter is Saved, but his Faith could fail. If our Faith can fail, then OSAS is a False Doctrine!

If our Faith can fail, then Eternal salvation is a False Doctrine!, because we can fail and lose our faith in God, even after being Saved and Secure in God.

Hello, good morning, and welcome to CC!

John 6:35 and 6-48a

Ephesians 1:13-14

 

[Magenta]

John 10:27-28

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

op: "ban the most evil doctrine of osas"?
Precious friend, why would the mods Even Consider "doing away" with:

God's Sound Doctrine?: God's FREE Gift Of ETERNAL Life!

GRACE And Peace...

 

[de-emerald]

Why do you think God allows evil to exist in this world? That would clear the air.

why do you think evil decided to go evil ?

Why do you think God allows evil to exist in this world? That would clear the air.

there is one thing that God did not decide and that is whether goodness would betray his entrusted power he gave to those who have miss used that power would you agree ?. We humans have not had the power that guardian cherub angels where entrusted with to look after the spirit of mankind with.. So if you can answer that question then maybe we could clear the air.

 

[de-emerald]

Calvinism, perhaps?
W.G.T. Shedd:
...
*** “God by his providence permitted some of the angels willfully and irrecoverably, to fall into sin and damnation…ordering that, and all their sins, to his glory.” ...

http://archive.org/details/calvinismpuremix00shed/page/34/mode/2up?view=theater

The mental gymnastics were quite amazing, but with someone not as lithe...

I can't agree sorry.
Please state your reasons why God would permit evil to cause evil.

 

[de-emerald]

I don’t believe anything should be banned when it comes to discussing the Word of God or religious interpretations of the Word of God. Maybe some parameters on certain subjects….

WHY…....There are new believers every day who have questions…..and others who maybe don’t know. The Word offers us Doctrine (right believing) Reproof (to show us where we are off) Correction (to get us back on track)

If we can’t contend with these questions here, how are we going to deal with it in the real world. And if People can’t get answers here, then do they just wander aimlessly in their own fascination.

yes this is a good point but the better option would be to say this subject is banned because of this reason or that reason.

 

[de-emerald]

Genesis 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

That is the war that has been from the beginning, taking the TRUTHS that found in "IT IS WRITTEN" and putting someMans or even Satans spin on them. That is what we are to fight against. Short cuts and the reason for so many false prophets.

No one can deny that once saved it is eternal. IN THE END that is one of Gods Truths
yet those who defend it don't realize 'the doctrine' is but another one of the traditions of man.

If God wanted us teaching OSAS he would have left out all the IFs, something else no one can deny. So with every short cut a lie may be formed. Every word not taught as 'it is written' falls under the same problem.


What IS WRITTEN about OSAS

Philippians 3:10 That I may know Him, and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being made conformable unto His death

11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

12 NOT AS THOUGH I HAD ALREADY ATTAINED, either were already perfect but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,

14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

16 Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.

17 Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.


THAT IS HOW WE ARE TAUGHT TO TEACH.

SO YOU SEE, OSAS falls under HATH GOD SAID and it is a manner of MAN SPEAK, SO US, Christs men who are to spread the good news, should not be teaching it. It is a doctrine that makes void the words of God, at the very least a whole bunch of 'ifs'.

Faith comes by HEARING THE WORDS OF GOD, the words of God are the only words that give us HIS TRUTH. THOSE who love HIM OBEY HIS COMMANDMENTS.

(and so the 'we are not under the law' discussion begins...sure enough to be followed by the 'works salvation'. Next time you see it ASK, 'What does that mean? and how does that work')



WHERE DO WE FIND OUR REST? GODS TRUTHS. WHAT DO WE TEACH? Gods words. Why? So we can come to unity.

Isaiah 28:5 In that day shall the LORD of hosts be for a crown of glory, and for a diadem of beauty, unto the residue of his people,

6 And for a spirit of judgment to him that sitteth in judgment, and for strength to them that turn the battle to the gate.

7 But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment.

8 For all tables are full of vomit and filthiness, so that there is no place clean.

9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.

10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.

12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.

13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

THEY WOULD RATHER TEACH THE DOCTRINES/CONCLUSIONS OF MEN. GODS words are meant to enter the eyes and ears as IT IS WRITTEN.

some very good points raised here , I will reply further in dew time. But one thing I must say at this point is doctrin must line up with doctrin, which they do not here. For the simple reason if your saved eternally there is no need to be tested.

 

[Heaven_Bound]

You believe we can choose to take our soul out of the hands of Jesus and I do not.
We can choose to live for Him or not.
But once a son, always a son.

If what you said is true, we are not able to lose Faith in God and turn from Him, then Jesus lied when He said to Peter I pray you don't lose Faith. Jesus own answer proves you are wrong! Peter was saved at that point when Jesus said that to him. Peter is saved but still can lose his faith.

 

[de-emerald]

sounds a bit like calvinism thats sometimes confuses God with satan and negates Jesus sacrifice

I think people just need to read the Bible from beginning to end rather than back to front. Then they will not mix up doctrines. But you cant ban people if they just being confusing. It will hurt their pride...Im thinking and will cause them to argue even more.

The BDF can be a way to sort out their confusion though. Just keep telling the truth. People may get it eventually, hopefully!

sorry I can't help you with calvinism, but if you want to teach me then fire away. Are you saying calvinism reads the Bible back to front, not that I would know, but what I would say is the rapture works of the law and OSAS sinnless perfection and the law keepers of perfection all teach Jesus works with evil, in a blind way, these doctrins do not see, Which is blindness at the highest level. To which leads a Christian to suffer the feeling of damnation and persecution. And condemnation, which truly is the Bible back to front,. Please also not I do note I do not like arguing. 🙂

 

[de-emerald]

the idea od OSAS is a bad doctrine is not the issue. It is those who take "election" to a place that means selection.

AS far as a temptation to be tempted is not a sin, it is the lust that draws one to sin which brings forth death.

The bad doctrine is teaching that one can do enough pray enough fast enough and the temptation will not happen. AS long as we are in this fleshly body we will be tempted. We are to battle daily. We have an enemy to our souls that don't tire and is relentless.


Roman chapter 6 says.


6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin.

8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe (faith) that we shall also live with Him, 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Likewise you also, reckon(count it to be so, because it is so) yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts.

13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.


We must come to the understanding temptation will happen but OUR Mind of Christ has to be we will not do it in the name of Jesus. I am dead to that mindset, it has no more hold on me.

THROUGH Christ I can put down :

homosexuality, adultery, fornication, drunkness, lying, hate. perversion. We must call out to Christ as new Creatures in HIM having our minds renewed by the word of God.

Trying to deal with the attacks of the flesh and the devil we cannot stop that from happening, but we can through the power of Christ His resurrection power rebuke the condemnation of the temptation.

The devil and the flesh consistently pull you to what God said do not do.

The temptation is " do it do it!!" the condemnation is after you do it the devil who said Do it shouts LOOK what you did and bring hurling accusations before the Lord of your sin as the accuser of the brethen.

We must repent and hold to the word of God and move on not give up. Nor try not to be tempted we avoid sin and the places of temptation but the flesh & the devil will not stop trying to pull you to do what the flesh love to do. CS1's flesh will desire things that are not of God, I must tell my flesh and the devil I am a New Creature in Christ Jesus and I have been set free from that. I will not do it anymore in Jesus' name. You do that enough times as the word says James 4:7 " Submit yourself to God resist the devil and he will flee from you.

Amen, thankyou

 

[de-emerald]

op: "ban the most evil doctrine of osas"?
Precious friend, why would the mods Even Consider "doing away" with:

God's Sound Doctrine?: God's FREE Gift Of ETERNAL Life!

GRACE And Peace...

I have answered this question several times, already. The op called for the doctrin of Jesus works with evil to be banned,. The doctrin of OSAS promotes people to become a law unto them self's, which is working with evil. OSAS is not the only doctrin to promote Jesus works with evil, the rapture does too. For those who promote the hour and the day.
I also mentioned the law keepers promote the same issue, all blind and all promoting damnation for Christians, in
a blind way because all the doctrins I mentioned in the op promote Jesus working with evil, which I can not abide in.

 

[kleronomos]

some very good points raised here , I will reply further in dew time. But one thing I must say at this point is doctrin must line up with doctrin, which they do not here. For the simple reason if your saved eternally there is no need to be tested.

Just because you are eternally saved doesn't mean you don't need to be perfected before you come before God. These are two unrelated things.

You are gifted with eternal salvation. Doesn't matter if you come early in the morning or the last minute of the day, FAITH and Belief will allow you to receive that gift EXACT SAME AS EVERY OTHER SOUL WHO HAS EVER BEEN SAVED. YOU AND I receive the exact same gift as ABRAHAM, MOSES, JOHN THE BAPTIST, PETER, PAUL. That indeed is the gift.

but THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT KIND OF VESSEL YOU WILL BE DURING THAT ETERNAL LIFE.

WHAT WILL THAT 'SEED' become? WHEAT or perhaps some other grain. A vessel of honor, or a vessel of dishonor. Gold, silver, brass, maybe just wood....

Those are works. That WE CHOOSE.

THE THIEF ON THE CROSS. SAME EXACT GIFT OF SALVATION AS JOHN THE BAPTIST. One believed for a second the other a life time


AND THAT SEEMS TO BE EVERYONES CONCERN. BUT THEY FALL SHORT in that they don't understand the difference between the OLD and NEW COVENANTS and what did change and what didn't.

BUT even when it comes to salvation, it's like they don't even get that reward in this life. They live their lives waiting for death.



John the Baptist is arriving WELL DRESSED. John the Baptist had many wonderful works. Faith. Saved souls to his credit. Suffered for our Lord, was persecuted didn't care. He had a job and he did it.

Vessel of honor made of Gold

Thief on cross is arriving NAKED. Thief had no works. Thief came to FAITH and thief CONFESSED in front of the world who Christ was. GOOD WORK THERE. Still, nothing else is being brought with him. He didn't put anything into his eternal retirement account

Vessel of ? made of ?.


The difference between teaching what is written vs hath God said.

One makes God happy the other makes man happy

One is Gods Truth the other is mans doctrine

One brings rewards the other brings punishment


One of the things God hates most is HIS WORDS not being taught HIS WAY.


So back to why the eternally saved be tested.

GOD IS A CONSUMING FIRE. What GOD consumes are the parts of us that have not been perfected.

Wouldn't you rather learn your lessons NOW rather than IN FRONT OF THE WHOLE WORLD on Judgment day?

Remember Dad taught you to look both ways before crossing the street SO you didn't go splat.

SAME EXACT THING going on with God and us. He is TEACHING US DISCIPLINE SO THAT when judgment day all there is for us is rewards. Any part that would have gone up in flames was fixed before we got there.

PROVING. even Jesus was 'perfected' though what He suffered. GOD ISN'T EVEN making us do something HE didn't do Himself.

ETERNAL LIFE is a really long time. Would you want to give that to someone who turned out to be a liar? No, you would want everyone who was there to be deserving of being there. I myself really like the idea. I don't want people around who don't love God nor their brethren. I want people there who BELIEVE it is the best thing in the world and we are LUCKY to be offered such a thing.

I look forward to hearing from you

 

[SomeDisciple]

I guess it depends on what you mean "allows". Does he promotionally permit it to happen, like "yeah, go get em' satan!" ? No, it's not like that. But he does tolerate it, and exploit it for his own purposes; if you don't believe that, God can't be all powerful. He either tolerates evil, or he is impotent to stop it... if he was omnipotent and didn't tolerate it... well, there would be no evil.

Edit: deleted the quote, because I forgot OP asked us not to.

 

[RichMan]

If what you said is true, we are not able to lose Faith in God and turn from Him, then Jesus lied when He said to Peter I pray you don't lose Faith. Jesus own answer proves you are wrong! Peter was saved at that point when Jesus said that to him. Peter is saved but still can lose his faith.

What verse are you referring to?
Was this about his salvation or another time?

 

[ChristianTonyB]

I know we have had hyper grace banned here and sinless perfection considered a bad doctrin and probably banned.

Once saved always saved is finaly getting abolished by alot of churches, because it gives people a liscence to sin or makes people become a law unto them selfs.

However there is no condemnation for those in christ and we make mistakes, and we makes mistakes following bad doctrins.

The twisted doctrins of the law does not matter is also another doctrin from hell.

But the biggest most biggest most evil doctrin from hell is the one that says God allows evil to tempt or test people into sin, or God allows evil to test humans to see if they will sin. for many reasons but just one brief insight, is evil will always try to justify its presence, by saying God sent me, why well evil wants to defile Gods holy word.

Every good place we here from Jesus our mesiah, it is a big no no for christians and i have to wonder If christians or people are following the direct words of our mesisah, and why there is many many scripture that suggest Jesus would not allow evil to tempt a humanbeing into sin but yet 30 scriptures telling the truth against one telling a lie is not enough to convince christians or people that Jesus does not work satan,

I’m not exactly sure of what or who you are actually railing against, but our God cannot produce moral evil… physical and biological evil yes, but moral evil… no, that’s not possible.

The Spirit drove Jesus out into the desert, knowing full well that the Evil One wanders around out there too, and that he wold try to tempt Jesus into doing something against The Father’s instruction and will. Jesus‘ faithfulness to The Father was tested, and not found wanting in anything.

As it was with Jesus, so it will be with His followers, or do we count ourselves to be more privileged than He? After we were enlightened by God in the Lord Jesus, ie after our born again experience, we too are let loose into the desert, aka this world… Satan’s realm!

 

[Gideon300]

I know we have had hyper grace banned here and sinless perfection considered a bad doctrin and probably banned.

Once saved always saved is finaly getting abolished by alot of churches, because it gives people a liscence to sin or makes people become a law unto them selfs.

However there is no condemnation for those in christ and we make mistakes, and we makes mistakes following bad doctrins.

The twisted doctrins of the law does not matter is also another doctrin from hell.

But the biggest most biggest most evil doctrin from hell is the one that says God allows evil to tempt or test people into sin, or God allows evil to test humans to see if they will sin. for many reasons but just one brief insight, is evil will always try to justify its presence, by saying God sent me, why well evil wants to defile Gods holy word.

Every good place we here from Jesus our mesiah, it is a big no no for christians and i have to wonder If christians or people are following the direct words of our mesisah, and why there is many many scripture that suggest Jesus would not allow evil to tempt a humanbeing into sin but yet 30 scriptures telling the truth against one telling a lie is not enough to convince christians or people that Jesus does not work satan,

OSAS is not false doctrine. The confusion arises out of ignorance of the difference between being born again, and the subsequent process the Bible calls the salvation of the soul. A lot of churches are forsaking any kind of teaching. It's no wonder so few people have any real idea what the Christian life is in reality.

The Bible clearly states that God does not tempt anyone (James 1:13). God allows temptation and allows testing of our faith. That is entirely different. I don't recall anyone saying differently but I could be wrong.

The Law matters because it leads us to Christ. When it has done its job, it becomes redundant. Christians are subject to a new law. It's the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus. The New Covenant is new because it is new. It's not the covenant of law, it's the covenant of grace. Grace is not a licence to sin. It is the enabling to overcome sin. Law is useless because it is powerless to change anyone. All it can do is kill people. It is perfectly suited to that role and 100% effective. Lord Jesus came that we might have life.

The Pharisees obeyed the law as well as any person can. Yet they opposed Jesus constantly. Lord Jesus that the righteousness of the Pharisees was not enough. I'm glad that Lord Jesus is my righteousness.

Before you start condemning all who disagree with you, you do well to make sure that you are perfect yourself. God will judge us the way that we judge others. I am not at all interested in being judged as to how well I've kept the law. I will be declaring what Jesus has done for me when I face Him in the not too distant future. My boast is only in the Lord.

 

[Gideon300]

It's been going on in this forum everyday for the whole duration I have been here. The whole thing has made me angry. And please don't make me out to be a liar.

I frequent this forum often. I don't recall anyone claiming that God tempts anyone. How about a copy and paste of a statement to that effect? You don't need to identify the individual.

 

[de-emerald]

I frequent this forum often. I don't recall anyone claiming that God tempts anyone. How about a copy and paste of a statement to that effect? You don't need to identify the individual.

many times it's been said, I'm not wasting my time getting annoyed and collecting all the comments which suggest Jesus works with evil, but I tell you what give me a couple of weeks and I will have hundreds if you want.

When Satan oppresses Christians he also tempts people into sin or tests people into sin , which are both the same thing. And when a Christian says God has granted Satan permission to oppress christians then your also saying God is tempting you into sin, because Satan will always tempt people into sin in every passage he appears in, he is tempting people into sin in the Bible, that is his track record. then that Christian is saying God is tempting people into sin by saying God allows and grants Satan permission to oppress Christians.

Or the argument that Satan is the tester the chosen accuser of God people or an instrument used by God
All crop up nearly everyday. Or the twisted ideology that God granted Satan authority to get Job to cause Job to sin and blame God, and then use that as authentication to say God allows Satan to do the same to christians, or the twisted ideology that the holy spirited granted Satan permission to tempt Jesus into sinning.

OR the Satan glorifiers who come here everyday glorifying Satan with the rapture believing the lie that Satan will be allowed to oppress Christians in the end days. Or that Satan will be given permission by God to be the God of this world.

Or the endless fantasies of God allowing hardship or war or disease or pain and suffering. Blood shed .

OR innocent blood being shed, or the endless law unto him self person with a cocky attitude forcing there doctrines in s legalistic way, especially the doctrines mentioned in this op
or the endless fantasies of indoctrinated people playing God.

THere you have everyday day Satan is glorified and best of all by Christian saying it's on the authority of God.

and many Christian everyday being tempted into sin here by believing the lies of the most evil doctrines ever to grace are lands. unchecked and just dismissed as not happening now.

WOw I wonder what's next so far I'm a lier for exposing the truth a supporter of Calvinism, a Satan glorifier a person with no mind. A person making story's up. A false teacher. A disturbed person.

honestly you don't see along with others how this website is used to glorify Satan but I do, I'm sickened by all this, really I will. Have to leave for a couple of months again and hope that this doctrine is banned by time I get back, because Im struggling to deal with the pain it's causing me.

or maybe I will find away with the help of God to truly expose this doctrine when I come back that is just going untouched. By copying every time Satan is glorified from now on. Which I would rather not.