The Lord's Day (Rev. 1:10) - Sabbath (7th) or Sunday (1st) or Eschatological day or something else?
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Acts 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
I guess they never stopped rising up...
And what is the response to these Pharisees, every time?
Acts 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
That was Peter...
Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
And that was Paul.
Why would Christians show their Liberty in Christ by being entangled, again, with the Yoke of Bondage?
Wouldn't Christians choose a day to come together that was SEPARATE from the day that those who follow Moses Law come together???
Wouldn't the absolute, most common sense, logical day be the Day Christ Rose?
I suppose a REALLY good question would have been " Which day ISN'T the Lords Day?"..... Aren't they ALL His...?
Romans 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
I guess they never stopped rising up...
And what is the response to these Pharisees, every time?
Acts 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
That was Peter...
Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
And that was Paul.
Why would Christians show their Liberty in Christ by being entangled, again, with the Yoke of Bondage?
Wouldn't Christians choose a day to come together that was SEPARATE from the day that those who follow Moses Law come together???
Wouldn't the absolute, most common sense, logical day be the Day Christ Rose?
I suppose a REALLY good question would have been " Which day ISN'T the Lords Day?"..... Aren't they ALL His...?
Romans 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
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Some might say that all humanity are God's children. There is a certain truth to it, but there is a greater deception if spun the wrong way.
Yet we know that God specifically chose out Israel, then Levites, then Christians. Did God create mankind? Sure, and in that sense everyone is God's, but when it comes to holiness and sanctification, God makes distinction, even as God did for the 7th day. Yes, all days belong to God, but only the 7th day is sanctified by God, made Holy by God, and rested upon by God. No other of the other 6 days can that be truly said of, just as Israel, Levites and Christians are separate and distinct among humanity at their individual times, being holy and sanctified.
To say that all days are God's and thus all day are holy, is to say that all humanity is God's and thus all humanity is holy. The logic and argument argues too much.
Yet we know that God specifically chose out Israel, then Levites, then Christians. Did God create mankind? Sure, and in that sense everyone is God's, but when it comes to holiness and sanctification, God makes distinction, even as God did for the 7th day. Yes, all days belong to God, but only the 7th day is sanctified by God, made Holy by God, and rested upon by God. No other of the other 6 days can that be truly said of, just as Israel, Levites and Christians are separate and distinct among humanity at their individual times, being holy and sanctified.
To say that all days are God's and thus all day are holy, is to say that all humanity is God's and thus all humanity is holy. The logic and argument argues too much.
What about Christ's wisdom as written in Scripture? If the Risen Lord did not wish to make the 8th day the Christian Sabbath, why did He wait for eight days before appearing to Thomas and eliciting his worship?
The 7th day Sabbath was specifically given to Israel, while the 8th day Christian Sabbath (the first day of the week) was given to the Church. Proof? The apostles and apostolic churches observed the Lord's Day (Rev 1:10) instead of the Sabbath.
The 7th day Sabbath was specifically given to Israel, while the 8th day Christian Sabbath (the first day of the week) was given to the Church. Proof? The apostles and apostolic churches observed the Lord's Day (Rev 1:10) instead of the Sabbath.
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If it is a burden to rest in Jesus, then don't do it.
If remembering the Sabbath to keep it holy the way God is asking is a yoke of bondage than your understanding of the Sabbath is wrong.
The sabbath was made for man. It is a wonderful gift from God.
Satan will always take what is true and good, and will cause mankind to go to both extreems. The sabbath is the same...
Cause people to make it a burden...
Cause people to make it void.... forget about it.
Both extreems are wrong.
If remembering the Sabbath to keep it holy the way God is asking is a yoke of bondage than your understanding of the Sabbath is wrong.
The sabbath was made for man. It is a wonderful gift from God.
Satan will always take what is true and good, and will cause mankind to go to both extreems. The sabbath is the same...
Cause people to make it a burden...
Cause people to make it void.... forget about it.
Both extreems are wrong.
The evidence is in the name itself! There is no need to be obtuse. The Lord's Day commemorates the Lordship of Christ over death and Hell. He arose on "the morrow" after the Sabbath and thus fulfilled the Feast of First Fruits as "the first fruits of them that slept". Just as He fulfilled the Feast of Passover by becoming our Passover on the 14th of Nisan, AD 30. Christ our Passover was sacrificed for us and Christ (the Lord of the Sabbath) rose again for our justification. Hence the first day of the week became "the Lord's Day".
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The 14th of Nisan can fall on any day of the week and the fact that Jesus rose on Sunday does not mean that it became the Lords new Sabbath.
Rising on the 1st day of the week does not mean that the Blessing and sanctification of the 7th day of creation was changed.
That is presumption.
The name is " The Lord's day" = there is no evidence in that name to say it is the 1st day of the week. The Lords day in history was always the 7th day. Mat 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.
He died on Friday so our sins can be forgiven, the blood was shed on that day so can i say that Friday is the new sabbath?
If Gods will and His blessed Sabbath was to be Changed God would have made it plan, and we would not need to presume like you are.
You said = "Christ our Passover was sacrificed for us and Christ (the Lord of the Sabbath) rose again for our justification. Hence the first day of the week became "the Lord's Day" ".. How does the first day become the Sabbath because He rose on Sunday? Sure He is the first fruits and our Justification, and sanctification, He is all these things but that does not change the day that God (Jesus) set aside at creation.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
Heb 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
Heb 4:5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Act 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
Mar 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
these verses are about the 7th day of the week not the first.
Rising on the 1st day of the week does not mean that the Blessing and sanctification of the 7th day of creation was changed.
That is presumption.
The name is " The Lord's day" = there is no evidence in that name to say it is the 1st day of the week. The Lords day in history was always the 7th day. Mat 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.
He died on Friday so our sins can be forgiven, the blood was shed on that day so can i say that Friday is the new sabbath?
If Gods will and His blessed Sabbath was to be Changed God would have made it plan, and we would not need to presume like you are.
You said = "Christ our Passover was sacrificed for us and Christ (the Lord of the Sabbath) rose again for our justification. Hence the first day of the week became "the Lord's Day" ".. How does the first day become the Sabbath because He rose on Sunday? Sure He is the first fruits and our Justification, and sanctification, He is all these things but that does not change the day that God (Jesus) set aside at creation.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
Heb 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
Heb 4:5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Act 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
Mar 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
these verses are about the 7th day of the week not the first.
Read the text again.
John 20:26: "And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you."
I read "after eight days", which means day nine.
Also, if you consider Luke's gospel with John, the first meeting in that room took place on the evening (beginning) of the second day of the week (after the events of Emmaus and the two running back to Jerusalem), thus placing that meeting with Thomas, sometime the third day of the week (if I use inclusive reckoning of that day itself when they met the first time). All texts upon request.
John 20:26: "And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you."
I read "after eight days", which means day nine.
Also, if you consider Luke's gospel with John, the first meeting in that room took place on the evening (beginning) of the second day of the week (after the events of Emmaus and the two running back to Jerusalem), thus placing that meeting with Thomas, sometime the third day of the week (if I use inclusive reckoning of that day itself when they met the first time). All texts upon request.
I agree with both of those statements at their word level.
It does??? Can you give me scripture please that says or teaches that?
I agree with all of those statements.
AD 31, see Daniel 8-9; along with Ezra 6:14, and chapter 7. 457 BC + (69x7, + 1/2 of last 7) is AD 31. 457 BC is one of the most established dates in Bible chronology. All references upon request.
I agree with all of that.
Oh, you lost me right there. Lots of great material, but faulty conclusion. The evidence, did not warrant your conclusion, which you simply assumed from your a priori, not the texts themselves.
1. How does Jesus' fulfilling of the one time in the year feasts, in their season, based upon phase of the moon, and thus days of the month (not week), grant that the days they take place upon are to be celebrated by Christians as a weekly and thus recurring event?
2. Jesus is still the "Lord of the sabbath day", and the word "sabbath" is rooted in the Hebrew word for "seven"; not ever 'eight'. This is further evidence that "the Lord's day" is the seventh day still.
3. Reading Romans 6, shows how a Christian honours the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus - baptism. A one time (normally) event.
It does??? Can you give me scripture please that says or teaches that?
I agree with all of those statements.
AD 31, see Daniel 8-9; along with Ezra 6:14, and chapter 7. 457 BC + (69x7, + 1/2 of last 7) is AD 31. 457 BC is one of the most established dates in Bible chronology. All references upon request.
I agree with all of that.
Oh, you lost me right there. Lots of great material, but faulty conclusion. The evidence, did not warrant your conclusion, which you simply assumed from your a priori, not the texts themselves.
1. How does Jesus' fulfilling of the one time in the year feasts, in their season, based upon phase of the moon, and thus days of the month (not week), grant that the days they take place upon are to be celebrated by Christians as a weekly and thus recurring event?
2. Jesus is still the "Lord of the sabbath day", and the word "sabbath" is rooted in the Hebrew word for "seven"; not ever 'eight'. This is further evidence that "the Lord's day" is the seventh day still.
3. Reading Romans 6, shows how a Christian honours the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus - baptism. A one time (normally) event.
You need to re-read way more carefully what Nehemiah wrote.
Nowhere does he say that the sabbath was changed from saturday to sunday.
The 7th day sabbath, as prescribed by the law, is still the 7th day sabbath.
It would be REALLY strange for Christians, who are not under the Law, to show their Liberty in Christ by GOING BACK to what the Law says INSTEAD of Honoring the Day Christ Resurrected.
Then there is also the MAJOR CONUNDRUM of pretending to not be under the law but pointing back to it to show what Religious Traditions Christians should be under...
If we are not Justified by the Law and no one can shame us for NOT meeting on Saturdays then what is the purpose of pointing everyone back to the Law in order to justify meeting on Saturdays???
Why can't you just admit that the Lords Day is most likely Sunday and you meet on Saturdays because that is what your religious tradition tells you??
Why is the Truth so difficult?
Nowhere does he say that the sabbath was changed from saturday to sunday.
The 7th day sabbath, as prescribed by the law, is still the 7th day sabbath.
It would be REALLY strange for Christians, who are not under the Law, to show their Liberty in Christ by GOING BACK to what the Law says INSTEAD of Honoring the Day Christ Resurrected.
Then there is also the MAJOR CONUNDRUM of pretending to not be under the law but pointing back to it to show what Religious Traditions Christians should be under...
If we are not Justified by the Law and no one can shame us for NOT meeting on Saturdays then what is the purpose of pointing everyone back to the Law in order to justify meeting on Saturdays???
Why can't you just admit that the Lords Day is most likely Sunday and you meet on Saturdays because that is what your religious tradition tells you??
Why is the Truth so difficult?