You are still a slave to sin if you are still doing them. JESUS Gifted us The Way to Overcome!

[Phoneman-777]

and who are they?

you pulled another dirty bunny out of your hat that is 2 sizes too small

we are not talking about hyper grace or greasy grace

again, who are the THEY?

unless you count yourself among the theys, scripture would testify of hypocrisy on your account, even with all the tassels and pomegranates you can muster

if only Jesus had not mentioned something about trees in the eyes

LOL, while I disagree with you, "dirty bunny" had me laughing

 

[SophieT]

Please don't confuse my words. Cannot a husband who loves his wife dearly be grieved almost to death for having been unfaithful?

A wise preacher once said our repentance should be equal to the greviousness of the sin we've committed - never out of fear of losing salvation, but for having hurt the one you love so dearly.

well not this wife

and probably not so many as you would like to convince us of

did Jesus die to give us new life or so that we could have a finger pointing contest and throw stones at each other?

well, that preacher needs to consult the word he believes he preaches. I rejoice in my salvation and should I get a glimpse of sins I have committed, I cannot fathom the depth of the love of God to forgive such things and not only that, TELL ME THAT HE REMEMBERS THEM NO MORE

 

[SophieT]

LOL, while I disagree with you, "dirty bunny" had me laughing

my intent

 

[SophieT]

later dudes

 

[Pilgrimshope]

and who are they?

you pulled another dirty bunny out of your hat that is 2 sizes too small

we are not talking about hyper grace or greasy grace

again, who are the THEY?

unless you count yourself among the theys, scripture would testify of hypocrisy on your account, even with all the tassels and pomegranates you can muster

if only Jesus had not mentioned something about trees in the eyes

it’s funny whenever you want to avoid scripture you ignore the post and move to the same bickering . But we all know the answer to the question you ignored lol yes it’s written to Christians also some just can’t accept it

 

[Phoneman-777]

well not this wife

and probably not so many as you would like to convince us of

did Jesus die to give us new life or so that we could have a finger pointing contest and throw stones at each other?

well, that preacher needs to consult the word he believes he preaches. I rejoice in my salvation and should I get a glimpse of sins I have committed, I cannot fathom the depth of the love of God to forgive such things and not only that, TELL ME THAT HE REMEMBERS THEM NO MORE

What about the righteous man who turns from his righteousness to do evil? "All his righteousness shall not be remembered".

Works of obedience, or the lack thereof, are the evidence whether we've been saved by grace and continue in covenant relationship with Jesus, or not.

OSAS cannot but oppose this concept because the very purpose for the existence of OSAS is to excuse habitual, known, deliberate sin in the life of a professing believer by claiming we may through dead faith obtain that which can be obtained only by living faith: eternal life.

 

[Rhomphaeam]

First you said this:

The Just Man wets his pillow with tears at night begging God for power to overcome shameful habits, and eventually does...there's inexhaustible mercy to cover that Just Man.

However, the Presumptuous Man with his OSAS License to Sin who not only refuses to "confess" and "forsake" his sin, but intends to carry them up to the moment he enters the pearly gates is in danger of waking up in the wrong resurrection.

Then you said this:

Proverbs 24:16 is a theory?

Psalms 19:13 too?

The one is "just" while the other is "innocent" only by being kept back from presumptuous sin.

because I said this:

Thats just a theory. Philosophy at best and speculation in all likelihood. Where are you standing on the issue of sin? In a tower - a watchman or in the gate - a prophet?

Now you say this to another member:

Please don't confuse my words. Cannot a husband who loves his wife dearly be grieved almost to death for having been unfaithful?

A wise preacher once said our repentance should be equal to the greviousness of the sin we've committed - never out of fear of losing salvation, but for having hurt the one you love so dearly.

So who is confused then when this report by a wise pastor may already stand in contradiction to your original ambition. You said that eternal salvation is a lie - or perhaps I should really say that you implied that eternal salvation is only seen for those who sin presumptuously when they awaken at the wrong resurrection (your words) and so if the wrong resurrection then the second resurrection and the Great White Throne. Where is the Bema Seat in your doctrine?

You see, brother, your misuse of such a profound reality as to condemn believers to the Great White Throne judgement - necessarily removed the Bema Seat and the just mercy of God for those who have laid hold of Christ as their righteousness. 1 Corinthians 1:30.

That is the central ambition and meaning of what some have said - and others are making a hash of that reality in order to establish another reality - yet do so as though the believer has become the unbeliever.

So perhaps you could answer my question when I said, "Where are you standing on the issue of sin? In a tower - a watchman or in the gate - a prophet?"

 

[Pilgrimshope]

First the foundation and then the house. @Evmur spoke of the foundation. You are speaking of the house. They are not in conflict so we ought not to be citing the Scripture as though they were - unless we are in conflict and believe that we can sin always and escape giving an account. If that is so then how will you know it on a forum?

right these two principles aren’t in conflict

“She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee:

go, and sin no more.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:11‬ ‭

The stop sinning part isn’t and shouldn’t be considered wrong to speak of should it ?

it’s actually imperative and part of our foundation to repent from the works of the flesh (sin)

“Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection;

not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

And this will we do, if God permit.

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭6:1-8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

do you notice the Dire warning in there ?
that’s part of the foundation we can’t keep sinning and pretend we aren’t sinning. Of we are sinning we need to start acknolwedging our sins and repenting and yes we have to stop continuing in sin

that’s all let of salvation and will exclude us from inheritance if we don’t acknolwedge it

We have to stop living in these ways

“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:19-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That’s all I’m saying I agree with emvur almost always do but what he said doesn’t make the reality of oir actions irrelevant it’s just part of the same message that redeems us from serving the will of Satan l those works of the flesh we have to allow ourselves to despise those things and become guilty when we’re living In them

“ if anyone says they have no sin “ if we refuse to acknolwedge our sins well
Never get free from them

 

[Phoneman-777]

So who is confused then when this report by a wise pastor may already stand in contradiction to your original ambition.

It doesn't.

You said that eternal salvation is a lie -

I'd never say that.

or perhaps I should really say that you implied that eternal salvation is only seen for those who sin presumptuously when they awaken at the wrong resurrection (your words)

Not only are these not my words, this doesn't make any sense to me.

and so if the wrong resurrection then the second resurrection and the Great White Throne. Where is the Bema Seat in your doctrine?

Again, I need complete sentences, friend.

You see, brother, your misuse of such a profound reality as to condemn believers to the Great White Throne judgement -

I never said believers are condemned to the White Throne Judgment, I said the "Presumptuous Man" will be - because his belief, like that of devils, leads him not to repentance because, like they, he is no longer capable of repentance.

necessarily removed the Bema Seat and the just mercy of God for those who have laid hold of Christ as their righteousness. 1 Corinthians 1:30.

If the bloodwashed, grace-saved saint of God continues to abide in the Vine, there's no reason he should miss out on the resurrection of the Just.
However, the Presumptuous Man is a saint who is slowly searing away his conscience and quenching the Spirit by steadfast resistance to Him, or has reached the point of no return - total Spiritual paralysis - having lost all ability to feel the Holy Spirit's impress. The former is in danger, the latter is lost. I don't presume to judge anyone.

That is the central ambition and meaning of what some have said - and others are making a hash of that reality in order to establish another reality - yet do so as though the believer has become the unbeliever.

Hopefully, I've cleared up any misconceptions you have about my words making "believers" into "unbelievers". That is accomplished individually by withdrawal of our surrender to Christ which we make when we ask Him to be BOTH our Savior AND Lord. He can't be only the one or the other.

So perhaps you could answer my question when I said, "Where are you standing on the issue of sin? In a tower - a watchman or in the gate - a prophet?"

I take the Biblical position: routinely check the mirror for my own dirt and also inspect the fruit of my brethren. We're all our brother's keeper, right or wrong?

 

[Rhomphaeam]

right these two principles aren’t in conflict

“She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee:

go, and sin no more.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:11‬ ‭

The stop sinning part isn’t and shouldn’t be considered wrong to speak of should it ?

it’s actually imperative and part of our foundation to repent from the works of the flesh (sin)

“Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection;

not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

And this will we do, if God permit.

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭6:1-8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

do you notice the Dire warning in there ?
that’s part of the foundation we can’t keep sinning and pretend we aren’t sinning. Of we are sinning we need to start acknolwedging our sins and repenting and yes we have to stop continuing in sin

that’s all let of salvation and will exclude us from inheritance if we don’t acknolwedge it

We have to stop living in these ways

“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:19-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That’s all I’m saying I agree with emvur almost always do but what he said doesn’t make the reality of oir actions irrelevant it’s just part of the same message that redeems us from serving the will of Satan l those works of the flesh we have to allow ourselves to despise those things and become guilty when we’re living In them

“ if anyone says they have no sin “ if we refuse to acknolwedge our sins well
Never get free from them

Right now, brother, the need is for the foundation to be revealed - and only then can the house be built. Clearly, even a semblance of mercy and a mustard seed of faith can have the believer knowing that brethren sin and at the same time can be forgiven. But the churches are not in that simple condition. The churches are mainly in extremities that become harmful - corresponding to two precepts - Christ our Righteousness & Just and Righteous to forgive us our sins if we confess our sins. I can only write as I am able to write and based on nearly forty years of walking in sight of both of these two extremities and seeing the profound harm that comes from taking one in favour of the other. Yet the latter extremity is far less harmful than the former extremity when it not wholly understood and joyfully received by faith - I have drank a bitter cup knowing just what harm has been dome. Beside that I asked the Father this meaning on the day I was saved and received a great deal from the Father to answer that condition. So prophetically I have peace and that peace answers the latter condition - as the present need is to reveal the true foundation by the pastoral ministry. As I am not a teacher I write to speak prophetically about the true foundation - and then when the hand of God is revealed to answer the latter condition - prophecy that characterises the very thing you have cited regarding the coming kingdom will be the fearful warning which few will be able to shrink back from who have put their eternal confidence in Christ, their true foundation. Who by then will have witnessed the power of the Holy Spirit in their midst - after which witness of God the fearful reality of falling away through sin can be upheld prophetically and without mercy on those who are by then inclined to corrupt the churches - so as to influence the Body of Christ to an ill effect.

 

[Rhomphaeam]

It doesn't.
I'd never say that.
Not only are these not my words, this doesn't make any sense to me.
Again, I need complete sentences, friend.
I never said believers are condemned to the White Throne Judgment, I said the "Presumptuous Man" will be - because his belief, like that of devils, leads him not to repentance because, like they, he is no longer capable of repentance.
If the bloodwashed, grace-saved saint of God continues to abide in the Vine, there's no reason he should miss out on the resurrection of the Just.
However, the Presumptuous Man is a saint who is slowly searing away his conscience and quenching the Spirit by steadfast resistance to Him, or has reached the point of no return - total Spiritual paralysis - having lost all ability to feel the Holy Spirit's impress. The former is in danger, the latter is lost. I don't presume to judge anyone.
Hopefully, I've cleared up any misconceptions you have about my words making "believers" into "unbelievers". That is accomplished individually by withdrawal of our surrender to Christ which we make when we ask Him to be BOTH our Savior AND Lord. He can't be only the one or the other.
I take the Biblical position: routinely check the mirror for my own dirt and also inspect the fruit of my brethren. We're all our brother's keeper, right or wrong?

You are false. Answer your own claims and spare me the fictional ignorance.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Right now, brother, the need is for the foundation to be revealed - and only then can the house be built. Clearly, even a semblance of mercy and a mustard seed of faith can have the believer knowing that brethren sin and at the same time can be forgiven. But the churches are not in that simple condition. The churches are mainly in extremities that become harmful - corresponding to two precepts - Christ our Righteousness & Just and Righteous to forgive us our sins if we confess our sins. I can only write as I am able to write and based on nearly forty years of walking in sight of both of these two extremities and seeing the profound harm that comes from taking one in favour of the other. Yet the latter extremity is far less harmful that the former extremity when it not wholly understood and joyfully received by faith - I have drank a bitter cup knowing just what harm has been dome. Beside that I asked the Father this meaning on the day I was saved and received a great deal from the Father to answer that condition. So prophetically I have peace and that peace answers the latter condition - as the present need is to reveal the true foundation by the pastoral ministry. As I am not a teacher I write to speak prophetically about the true foundation - and then when the hand of God is revealed to answer the latter condition - prophecy that characterises the very thing you have cited regarding the coming kingdom will be the fearful warning which few will be able to shrink back from who have put their eternal confidence in Christ, their true foundation. Who by then will have witnessed the power of the Holy Spirit in their midst - after which witness of God the fearful reality of falling away through sin can be upheld prophetically and without mercy on those who are by then inclined to corrupt the churches - so as to influence the Body of Christ to an ill effect.

I’d say it’s all needed brother some will be offended others will take heed and grow we should never not preach what’s in the New Testament it’s always beneficial

some are yet children they can’t hear it yet so it seems offensive to them it’s ok later they will be the one talking about it when they begin to hear it

It’s not going to damage anyone to discuss the things written in every epistle in the gospel and in the law and prophets sometimes the truth sounds harsh , later it causes growth

we can’t say because some are t ready to hear something we shouldn’t discuss it with those who are . Honestly if it offends people to talk about not sinning they can easily avoid that post and move to another it should always be spoken along with everything else.

Some can handle solid food some can’t both belong to the lord and. Either should judge the other Jesus has that part covered we should just share the truth and not limit it to certain parts while fearing he other parts we haven’t come to the mount Sinai where we’re told not to come near and hear the lord but we’re called into the light where we do hear him

 

[Blik]

So perhaps you could answer my question when I said, "Where are you standing on the issue of sin? In a tower - a watchman or in the gate - a prophet?"

For me, I listen to what Christ tells me to do about sin--I repent. I am flesh, so I do sin although I want to live without ever sinning.

I live in a world where time is not eternal but sequential. Therefore I could change this at any time I changed my mind and wanted sin. Christ cannot forgive a sin we have decided to keep.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

For me, I listen to what Christ tells me to do about sin--I repent. I am flesh, so I do sin although I want to live without ever sinning.

I live in a world where time is not eternal but sequential. Therefore I could change this at any time I changed my mind and wanted sin. Christ cannot forgive a sin we have decided to keep.

amen sister

you are accepting both points of doctrine your will Is set against sin it affects you whe. You realize you have sinned so you repent and receive mercy and cleansing from its effects
you have the knowledge of the propitiation for our sins and advocacy of Jesus Christ the righteous for those who come up short having the mind set against sin but acknolwedging your imperfections and need for the provision and mercies and intercession of Jesus Christ

you aren’t seeing the two points as contrary which is what leads us home

 

[SophieT]

it’s funny whenever you want to avoid scripture you ignore the post and move to the same bickering . But we all know the answer to the question you ignored lol yes it’s written to Christians also some just can’t accept it

just a simple answer for you

what you say here is not true

obviously I do not avoid as I am here. right here

 

[SophieT]

What about the righteous man who turns from his righteousness to do evil? "All his righteousness shall not be remembered".

Works of obedience, or the lack thereof, are the evidence whether we've been saved by grace and continue in covenant relationship with Jesus, or not.

OSAS cannot but oppose this concept because the very purpose for the existence of OSAS is to excuse habitual, known, deliberate sin in the life of a professing believer by claiming we may through dead faith obtain that which can be obtained only by living faith: eternal life.

be careful then not to be that man

works do not and never have created a covenant between the believer and their Savior

the covenant was always sealed with faith (see Abraham) and the last one, the blood of Christ...also enacted by our faith in Him

what about habitual sin? the thing is, every single sin can be forgiven except blasphemy of the Holy Spirit

so be careful not to commit that sin either

 

[Phoneman-777]

You are false. Answer your own claims and spare me the fictional ignorance.

I base everything on Scripture, friend.

The Just Man falls seven times and can expect mercy, but the Presumptuous Man whose OSAS License to Sin brings upon him guilt of the "great transgression" will split hell wide open.

 

[Phoneman-777]

be careful then not to be that man

works do not and never have created a covenant between the believer and their Savior

the covenant was always sealed with faith (see Abraham) and the last one, the blood of Christ...also enacted by our faith in Him

what about habitual sin? the thing is, every single sin can be forgiven except blasphemy of the Holy Spirit

so be careful not to commit that sin either

Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit aka "the Unpardonable Sin" is finally accomplished when we've resisted and resisted the Holy Spirit for so long, we eventually burn out the conscience and quench the Spirit -- we no longer feel the Spirit's impressions as a man no longer feels thirsty after quenching his thirst. We no longer can sense His directing power over us...we become incapable of receiving pardon because we no longer feel the need to seek it - God can't forgive us because we're incapable of asking for it. "Ye receive not because ye ask not".

 

[gb9]

First you said this:



Then you said this:



because I said this:



Now you say this to another member:



So who is confused then when this report by a wise pastor may already stand in contradiction to your original ambition. You said that eternal salvation is a lie - or perhaps I should really say that you implied that eternal salvation is only seen for those who sin presumptuously when they awaken at the wrong resurrection (your words) and so if the wrong resurrection then the second resurrection and the Great White Throne. Where is the Bema Seat in your doctrine?

You see, brother, your misuse of such a profound reality as to condemn believers to the Great White Throne judgement - necessarily removed the Bema Seat and the just mercy of God for those who have laid hold of Christ as their righteousness. 1 Corinthians 1:30.

That is the central ambition and meaning of what some have said - and others are making a hash of that reality in order to establish another reality - yet do so as though the believer has become the unbeliever.

So perhaps you could answer my question when I said, "Where are you standing on the issue of sin? In a tower - a watchman or in the gate - a prophet?"

phoneman follows ellen white. that will confuse anybody.

 

[Rhomphaeam]

I base everything on Scripture, friend.

The Just Man falls seven times and can expect mercy, but the Presumptuous Man whose OSAS License to Sin brings upon him guilt of the "great transgression" will split hell wide open.

So does the Devil.