The False Teaching (& Truth) of what happens at the Rapture.

[kleronomos]

Hardly. So you actually believe that these revived believers received glorified bodies?? Then where does the Bible say they were taken up to heaven?

Where else would SAINTS, having been raised from the grave, go? I didn't even really question it myself, so off the top of my head I would go with these??

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.


Hebrews 2:13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.
14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death He might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Hardly. So you actually believe that these revived believers received glorified bodies?? Then where does the Bible say they were taken up to heaven?

Where else would SAINTS, having been raised from the grave, go?

You have entered the realm of presumption.

I didn't even really question it myself, so off the top of my head I would go with these??

Yes, why would you go to presumption? There is NO EVIDENCE that any of these received glorified bodies and/or were taken to heaven.

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

v.27 is clear. All men will die once. With a single exception; at the ONE resurrection of the saved (1 Cor 15:23), the living believers "when Jesus comes" (1 Cor 15:23, will NOT physically die, but rather, be changed, "in the twinking of the eye" (1 Cor 15:52,53).

Hebrews 2:13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.
14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death He might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

Please explain how these verses have any relevance to the discussion. I see none.

 

[Absolutely]

Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:


Revelation 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.


10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,


ARE YOU A SERVANT? THEN WHAT IS WRITTEN IS FOR YOU, NOT FOR THOSE WHO WILL NEVER READ IT.

I KNOW YOU WISH TO PICK JUST 'HOW MUCH TRIBULATION' YOU ARE WILLING TO TAKE, BUT IF YOU ARE HERE YOU WILL BE GOING THROUGH THE TRIBULATION OF SATAN.

Lol
You omit Jesus standing in front of John on patmos .....lol.... To "prove" he is not standing on patmos in front of John.

SMH.

 

[Absolutely]

TRIBULATION IN BLACK BOLK GREAT TRIBULATION/GODS WRATH IN RED BOLD

Matthew 24:8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Thanks for including vs 42 and 44,
Verifying that the one taken / left is the rapture and the setting is BEFORE THE FLOOD.

Yes "before the flood" setting in vs 38. ( can only be a pretrib rapture)
You seem to be learning not to omit our verses.
That is progress for you indeed.

Thanks again for verifying the pretrib rapture via verses.

 

[Absolutely]

ABSOLUTELY CORRECT - AND GOD TALKS ABOUT IT

Revelation 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

Revelation 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

1169. deilos ►
Strong's Concordance
deilos: cowardly, fearful
Original Word: δειλός, ή, όν
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: deilos
Phonetic Spelling: (di-los')
Definition: cowardly, fearful
Usage: cowardly, timid, fearful.
HELPS Word-studies
1169 deilós (an adjective derived from deidō, "fear-driven") – properly, dreadful, describing a person who loses their "moral gumption (fortitude)" that is needed to follow the Lord.

1169 /deilós ("fearful of losses") refers to an excessive fear (dread) of "losing," causing someone to be fainthearted (cowardly) – hence, to fall short in following Christ as Lord.

[1169 /deilós is always used negatively in the NT and stands in contrast to the positive fear which can be expressed by 5401 /phóbos ("fear," see Phil 2:12).]

571. apistos
Strong's Concordance
apistos: incredible, unbelieving
Original Word: ἄπιστος, ον
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: apistos
Phonetic Spelling: (ap'-is-tos)
Definition: incredible, unbelieving
Usage: unbelieving, incredulous, unchristian; sometimes subst: unbeliever.
HELPS Word-studies
571 ápistos (from 1 /A "not" and 4103 /pistós, "faithful," see there) – properly, not faithful because unpersuaded, i.e. not convinced (persuaded by God). 571 /ápistos ("faithless, unpersuaded") does not always refer to the unconverted – see Jn 20:27. 571 (ápistos) describes someone who rejects or refuses God's inbirthings of faith (note the root, faith, 4102 /pístis).



Matthew 8:23 And when he was entered into a ship, his disciples followed him.
24 And, behold, there arose a great tempest in the sea, insomuch that the ship was covered with the waves: but he was asleep.
25 And his disciples came to him, and awoke him, saying, Lord, save us: we perish.
26 And he saith unto them, Why are ye fearful, O ye of little faith? Then he arose, and rebuked the winds and the sea; and there was a great calm.
27 But the men marvelled, saying, What manner of man is this, that even the winds and the sea obey him!


Mark 4:37 And there arose a great storm of wind, and the waves beat into the ship, so that it was now full.
38 And he was in the hinder part of the ship, asleep on a pillow: and they awake him, and say unto him, Master, carest thou not that we perish?
39 And he arose, and rebuked the wind, and said unto the sea, Peace, be still. And the wind ceased, and there was a great calm.
40 And he said unto them, Why are ye so fearful? how is it that ye have no faith?


PRE TRIBS ARE PREPARING TO ESCAPE THE 'PAUL HAD IT MILD' IN COMPARISON TRIBULATIONS COMING UPON THE EARTH.
PRE TRIBS FEAR SCREAMS OUT NO LESS THAN ABELS BLOOD DID AND THINGS SAID LIKE THAT PROVE IT.
PRE TRIBS WILL ONLY stand with God as long as it is free and easy.

Mark 4:14 The sower soweth the word.

15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

16 And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who, when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness;

17 And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended.
PRE TRIB TO A TEE. WAIT, they will take some tribulation but THEY HAVE THEIR LIMITS. WELL, THEY GET OFFENDED, THEY ONLY ENDURE FOR A TIME.

21 And he said unto them, Is a candle brought to be put under a bushel, or under a bed? and not to be set on a candlestick?
PRE TRIB SAYS only until Satan comes then NO MORE CANDLESTICK, we will let those who witnessed a miracle face Satan with no armor, no wisdom, no knowledge, no hearing the words of God so no faith.

22 For there is nothing hid, which shall not be manifested; neither was any thing kept secret, but that it should come abroad.
PRE TRIB SAY YES, THERE IS SOMETHING BEING KEPT SECRET AND YOU JUST CAN'T SEE IT. IT ISN'T WRITTEN, YOU HAVE TO FIND IT AND IF YOU DON'T IT IS BECAUSE YOU ARE DENSE OR OBTUSE.

23 If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.

24 And he said unto them, Take heed what ye hear: with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you: and unto you that hear shall more be given.

25 For he that hath, to him shall be given: and he that hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he hath.

"""PRE TRIBS ARE PREPARING TO ESCAPE THE 'PAUL HAD IT MILD' IN COMPARISON TRIBULATIONS COMING UPON THE EARTH.
PRE TRIBS FEAR SCREAMS OUT NO LESS THAN ABELS BLOOD DID AND THINGS SAID LIKE THAT PROVE IT.
PRE TRIBS WILL ONLY stand with God as long as it is free and easy."""


like i said, it goes right over your head.
You are oblivious that
1 ) paul did not "GO THROUGH" THE GT. ( WHICH OF ITSELF, FORCES YOUR NEW ACCUSATION OF " you think your doctrine will be an escape from what Paul went through"
WOW....SUCH DESPERATION ON YOUR PART.
NO PRETRIBBER BELIEVES THAT OR THINKS THAT.

WHAT YOU STATE , in your erroneous doctrine is that " an overcommer" goes through the GT.

I HANDILY BLEW ALL THAT AWAY.

NOW, you, standing in ashes, go on your little diversion to make it appear , ahem...DECEPTION, that we thing we will have zero persecution, trials, or demon attacks in this non GT timeframe we are in.

Bottom line

1) My post is way over your head.
2) you resort to deception and lies to provide a goofy "answer" of deception to my post that destroys any hope of "an overcomer" ,being a saint that ran away from the axe man for 7 years.
SMH

You need to know what our doctrine is BEFORE all those mistakes you make in wild accusations.

But you cant, because your doctrine is first and foremost anti pretrib rapture.

Your method is " omit and reframe"

Pitiful
SMH

 

[Absolutely]

TRIBULATION IN BLACK BOLK GREAT TRIBULATION/GODS WRATH IN RED BOLD

Matthew 24:8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Total fail
All pretribbers know we go through tribulation


Many millions going through way,way more that your sheltered christian experience.

All the while you see yourself running in fear away from the axe man for 7 years, oblivious that that is cowardly.

 

[Absolutely]

I DON'T HAVE A THEORY. AND THOSE AREN'T MY SHOES! I just have the leading of the Holy Spirit through 'WHAT IS WRITTEN' and that is what I believe.

Again, the easy proved to be false statements have really eroded whatever credibility you might have had but now you are looking...quite ignorant. You keep bringing up Patmos, as if it says what you WANT it to say, when it clearly doesn't. No different than when you mentioned Paul on the road to Damascus. It just isn't there.


NOW THIS? You must know WHAT IS WRITTEN, right? So, here we are again, you making flip comments/statements that are proved to be lies by what is written. You know I go to 'copy and paste' them? I don't understand.


1 Chronicles 28:2 Then David the king stood up upon his feet, and said, Hear me, my brethren, and my people: As for me, I had in mine heart to build an house of rest for the ark of the covenant of the LORD, and for the footstool of our God, and had made ready for the building

Lamentations 2:1 How hath the LORD covered the daughter of Zion with a cloud in his anger, and cast down from heaven unto the earth the beauty of Israel, and remembered not his footstool in the day of his anger!

Matthew 5:34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:
35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.
36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.
37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

ACTS 7:49
Heaven to ME A THRONE AND THE EARTH A FOOTSTOOL OF THE FEET OF ME. What kind of house will you build Me says Lord or what place of the rest of Me?




Luke 20:42 And David himself saith in the book of Psalms, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Luke 20:43 until I place the enemies of You a footstool of the feet of You

Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.



Hebrews 10:11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God
13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains


Hebrews 1:10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.
13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

Luke 10:17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.
18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.



Mark 12:35 And Jesus answered and said, while he taught in the temple, How say the scribes that Christ is the son of David?
36 For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The LORD said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool.
37 David therefore himself calleth him Lord; and whence is he then his son? And the common people heard him gladly.

John 12:30 Jesus answered and said, This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes.
31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.



5286. hupopodion ►
Strong's Concordance
hupopodion: a footstool
Original Word: ὑποπόδιον, ου, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: hupopodion
Phonetic Spelling: (hoop-op-od'-ee-on)
Definition: a footstool
Usage: a footstool.
HELPS Word-studies
5286 hypopódion (literally, "under the feet") – properly, a footstool; (figuratively) "5286 (hypopódion) is a footstool used by a conquering king, to place his foot on the neck of the conquered" (Souter) – i.e. those under his total dominion.

"""Again, the easy proved to be false statements have really eroded whatever credibility you might have had but now you are looking...quite ignorant. You keep bringing up Patmos, as if it says what you WANT it to say, when it clearly doesn't. No different than when you mentioned Paul on the road to Damascus. It just isn't there."""

So we now need revelation 1 CHANGED BY YOU POSTRIBS?

YEP, I AM HERE TO MAKE YOU GO AGAINST THE BIBLE.

Lets see if Jesus left his throne to stand on patmos...

Rev1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;

13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.

14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;

15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.

16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.

17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
THERE IT IS.
YOU CAN NOT ADMIT IT.
JESUS STANDING IN FRONT OF JOHN ON PATMOS.

But you folly is totally destroyed by The latter verses.

Now that Jesus ,STANDING ON PATMOS, has finished dictating to John the 7 letters we see a NEW SETTING OF GOING UP TO HEAVEN, FROM EARTH.
PSSSST....YOU AINT GONNA LIKE THIS ONE EITHER;

4 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne

OH NO!!!!!
YOU WERE WRONG AGAIN!!!!

YOU love going against that bible dont you?

 

[Absolutely]

STAGE? You must be kidding. YOU HAVE ADDED STAGES NOW? DON'T suppose it would be worth asking to see that as 'it is written' would it?

You saying Jesus did not resurrect first?

Or should you take some position that Jesus being the firstfruits is not part of the first resurrection?

Like i say.
My job is to make you go against the bible.

 

[Absolutely]

Is Satan at HIS FEET before Jesus descends and destroys him with the brightness of His COMING? YES, at least this is WHAT I BELIEVE.


So, in fact Satan is at HIS FEET before He leaves the throne HAVING LOST THE WAR IN HEAVEN...CAST DOWN TO THE EARTH

AKA 'ENEMIES MADE HIS FOOTSTOOL'.




UNLIKE WHAT A PRE TRIB WOULD REQUIRE WHICH WOULD HAVE JESUS AT THE FEET OF SATAN. SATAN BEING IN HEAVEN STILL AT WAR

(WOULD HAVE TO BE DURING THE WAR OR ELSE NOT PRE TRIB)

WHILE JESUS DESCENDED TO THE EARTH (WITH WHAT ARMY? ARENT THEY STILL FIGHTING SATAN IN HEAVEN? SOULS WOULD STILL HAVE TO BE UNDER THE ALTAR AS NO ONE IS GOING TO BE TAKING VENGEANCE THAT DAY...)

ALL SO 'THE APOSTASY' CAN BE BROUGHT TO HEAVEN

YOU KNOW WHAT YOU PROPOSE TO BE GODS TRUTH

TO 'FLY AWAY' THE UNDESERVING FULL OF SIN 'CHURCHES' SUCH AS them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication AND them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes, which thing I hate ALONG WITH thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and she repented not. WITHOUT DEATH OR JUDGMENT of any kind

as the BRIDE OF CHRIST.

"""So, in fact Satan is at HIS FEET before He leaves the throne HAVING LOST THE WAR IN HEAVEN...CAST DOWN TO THE EARTH
AKA 'ENEMIES MADE HIS FOOTSTOOL'."""

lol.

that is goofy friend.

if satan is defeated, then there is no need for Jesus to descend, defeat satan and bind him for a thousand years.

SMH

JUST ADMIT YOU BLEW IT.
STOP MAKING SUCH A FOOL OF YOURSELF.

 

[Absolutely]

When YE HEAR PEACE AND SAFEFTY will the pressure be most unbearable?

Or when he is winning over the nations with flatteries?

Or when he does what none have done before him?

Or the 'oneness' the world is feeling, watching the deceiver perform miracles?

Or when seeing others happy and prosperous, the pressure to join in with the world be too much?

Or does the whole world worshiping him as if he were GOD, become the 'way worse than Paul' part?

Maybe it is all the deception and lying signs and wonders he will be performing for the world at that time.

These spiritual wars can be quite trying on your FAITH. It is supernatural powers how will the continual 'slaughter' of Christians look to the world?


SEALED NOT RAPTURED, SEALED IN THEIR FOREHEADS BEFORE THE TRIB
Revelation 7:1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, HOLDING THE FOUR WINDS OF THE EARTH that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have SEALED the servants of our God in their foreheads.
4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.


BEGINNING OF THE LORDS DAY HERE ON EARTH
Revelation 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

2 And I heard a voice FROM HEAVEN as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders

COME BACK TO EARTH WITH US - REMEMBER HEAVEN AND EARTH WILL NO LONGER BE SEPARATED BY THE 'SEEN VS UNSEEN' WORLD. ALL WILL HAVE BEEN CHANGED INTO SPIRITUAL BODIES***

and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever HE goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

REMEMBER THE KINGDOM, THE THRONE, THE RULE AND REIGN OF THE LORD ON THE LORDS DAY IS ON THE EARTH. THE KINGDOM WAS FIRST PROCLAIMED UPON THE EARTH, THE WORD IS BEING SPREAD ON THE EARTH, THE TEMPLE WILL BE ON THE EARTH, THE NATIONS OF THE EARTH WILL COME TO THE TEMPLE, HIS FEET TOUCH DOWN UPON THE EARTH, IT GOES ON AND ON.

DO NOT BE DECEIVED BY ANY MAN OR ANY DOCTRINE THAT TRIES TO TELL YOU HE IS NOT COMING BACK TO RULE AND REIGN ON THE EARTH.

Revelation 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people

WHAT WILL 'PRIESTS' BE DOING FOR THE LORDS DAY? TEACHING THE WORDS OF GOD.
SATAN IS SEALED AND BOUND - BUT IS SET TO BE RELEASED AT THE END
KINDA LIKE SATAN IS IN HEAVEN RIGHT NOW - TO BE CAST DOWN AT THE END
AS WE TODAY ARE BEING TOLD HE IS COMING - DURING THE LORDS DAY WE WILL BE TEACHING HE IS COMING. BABYLON IS COMING TO PROVE THEM JUST LIKE BABLYON CAME AND PROVED US.

7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of His judgment is come and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
WORSHIP GOD, DO NOT BE DECEIVED, THIS TIME IT ENDS WITH THE GREAT THRONE JUDGMENT AND THAT IS FINAL.

8 And there followed

10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of HIS indignation and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb
THIS END (FUTURE) IS MUCH DIFFERENT BECAUSE THIS ENDS WITH JUDGMENT AND ALL DECISIONS ARE FINAL. THERE WILL BE NO MORE DAYS OF TEACHING AND PREACHING THE EVERLASTING GOSPEL. EVERYONE WHO MAKES IT, KNOWS IT.

11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
WHO IS OUR REST? THEY NEVER RECEIVE OUR REST


12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

GODS WILL IS ALL COME TO REPENTANCE. WE WORK THROUGH ALL THESE TIMES WITH GOD SO THAT IN THE END, HIS WORLD IS THE WORLD HE CREATED, WORKED AT, AND SUFFERED FOR TO BRING HIM PLEASURE. TRUE LOVE FREELY GIVEN IS A PROCESS. A LONG AND DIFFICULT PROCESS FOR 'SOTTISH' CHILDREN TO GO THROUGH. IN THE END, THERE HAS TO BE REWARDS AND PUNISHMENT. THOSE WHO RECEIVE THE 'REWARDS' DO SO MANY TIMES BECAUSE THEY RECEIVE THE 'PUNISHMENT' FROM THOSE WHO WILL BE JUDGED TO DEATH BECAUSE OF CHOOSING TO PUNISH THEIR FELLOW MAN.

THERE HAS TO BE JUSTIFICATION TO PUT SOMEONE IN THE LAKE OF FIRE, THERE HAS TO BE JUSTIFICATION TO GIVE SOMEONE REWARDS. WHAT SEEMS GRIEVIOUS TO US NOW WILL ONE DAY FEEL LIKE ALMOST NOTHING. REMEMBER

FOR THE JOY SET BEFORE HIM...FOR WHAT WE WILL BE GIVEN, WHAT IS BEING ASKED IS NO BIG DEAL. AND HE ISN'T EVEN ASKING US TO GO THROUGH OR DO SOMETHING HE HIMSELF DIDN'T DO. WHY I HATE PRE TRIB. IT IS THEFT AND DECEPTION IN EVERY DIRECTION. IT IS CLEARLY SEEN FOR ALL THE LIES BY THOSE WITH EYES, WHILE THE DELUSION IS STRONG FOR ALL OF THOSE WHO ARE IN THE WRONG.

13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write,
"Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth
Yea, saith the Spirit, "that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them".


TAKING ANOTHER LOOK AT THE RETURN OF CHRIST AS KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS AND EVENTS THAT TAKE PLACE WITH THAT RETURN -
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.

"""TAKING ANOTHER LOOK AT THE RETURN OF CHRIST AS KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS AND EVENTS THAT TAKE PLACE WITH THAT RETURN -
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.""""

UH...NO...YOU or anyone else does NOT see Jesus returning TO EARTH with millions of saints blackening the sky as warriors on horses. In rev14:14.

But again you need the bible changed, because EVEN IF IT WERE the rapture in rev 14:14 YOU STILL FAIL....because the 144k PRECEDE the second coming and are in heaven, BEFORE the supposed rapture of rev 14:14.

Your deal is so poorly thought out and is easily shown erroneous.

So easy to refute your entire deal.

 

[Absolutely]

SO WHAT is your point? YES, SOME LOSE THEIR LIVES. SO WHAT IS YOUR POINT? SOME LOSE THEIR HEADS. SO WHAT IS YOUR POINT? POWER GIVEN AC TO KILL ALL BELIEVERS REFUSING MARK. SO WHAT IS YOUR POINT? ALL BELIEVERS KILLED.


SERIOUSLY, WHAT IS YOUR POINT?

AM I SUPPOSED TO FEAR OF WHAT GOD TELLS ME NOT TO FEAR?

JUST BECAUSE YOU ARE HAVING A MAJOR PROBLEM WITH IT, DOESN'T MEAN EVERYONE ELSE DOES. YOU CAN'T SCARE ME. HE CAN'T SCARE ME. WHAT EVER HAPPENS HAS HAPPENED TO SOMEONE BEFORE ME. WHEN YOU LOVE GOD YOU ARE WILLING TO DO THIS, HAPPILY KNOWING WHAT COMES NEXT IS WORTH EVER SO MUCH MORE THAN WHAT HAPPENS NOW.

YOU NEED TO QUIT TRYING TO SCARE PEOPLE FROM YOUR OWN PLACE OF FEAR.


WRITE THIS OUT 100 times and then get back to me.

Hebrews 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

Hebrews 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; WHO FOR THE JOY THAT WAS SET BEFORE HIM ENDURED THE CROSS, DESPISING THE SHAME, AND IS SET DOWN AT THE RIGHT HAND OF THE THRONE OF GOD.

Hebrews 12:3 For consider HIM that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.

Hebrews 12:4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

Hebrews 12:5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:

Hebrews 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

Hebrews 12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

Hebrews 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

"""SO WHAT is your point? YES, SOME LOSE THEIR LIVES. SO WHAT IS YOUR POINT? SOME LOSE THEIR HEADS. SO WHAT IS YOUR POINT? POWER GIVEN AC TO KILL ALL BELIEVERS REFUSING MARK. SO WHAT IS YOUR POINT? ALL BELIEVERS KILLED.
SERIOUSLY, WHAT IS YOUR POINT? """

lol

all believers killed , as you stated, means none of you "brave" lol, postribs make to the end of the gt.

you know, what you erroneously claim are " overcomers"

 

[Absolutely]

Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

The testimomy starts with Jesus standing before John on patmos.
That is vs 10.

You read the "forward" where John relates The different " players" that speak to him.
1) Jesus
2) angels.

Another fail by you

SMH

 

[Beckie]

Joh_6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
Joh_6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh_6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh_6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh_12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
Knowing Jesus made all things (John 1:3) We can understand He knows about days . What time frame will come after what Jesus says is the last day?
In reading
Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Thanks for including vs 42 and 44,
Verifying that the one taken / left is the rapture and the setting is BEFORE THE FLOOD.

No one was raptured or resurrected before the flood. That is just silly.

Yes "before the flood" setting in vs 38. ( can only be a pretrib rapture)

If there was rapture before the flood, then you be left behind.

Thanks again for verifying the pretrib rapture via verses.

No one has done that, in spite of how much you presume.

 

[FreeGrace2]

"""PRE TRIBS ARE PREPARING TO ESCAPE THE 'PAUL HAD IT MILD' IN COMPARISON TRIBULATIONS COMING UPON THE EARTH.

Your presumptions "OMIT" how the Jews escaped the judgments in Egypt. God didn't remove them from Egypt. He simply protected them from His plagues.

 

[FreeGrace2]

YEP, I AM HERE TO MAKE YOU GO AGAINST THE BIBLE.

But....who made YOU go against the Bible?

You choke on all the details, and you fail completely to see the overall pattern of God.

1. ONE resurrection which includes all living believers. Acts 24:15, 1 Cor 15:23
2. The ONE resurrection will be "when He comes", which is obviously the Second Advent, which occurs at the end of the Trib.
3. This is proved in Re 20:5 and 2 Thess 2:1.

All you have is lots of presumption.

 

[FreeGrace2]

kleronomos said:
STAGE? You must be kidding. YOU HAVE ADDED STAGES NOW? DON'T suppose it would be worth asking to see that as 'it is written' would it?

You saying Jesus did not resurrect first?

Or should you take some position that Jesus being the firstfruits is not part of the first resurrection?

You completely miss everything about God's plan for the resurrection of believers. There are no stages, as you continue to presume.

Jesus is the FIRST human to get a glorified body. Acts 26:23
"those who belong to Him" is the ONE resurrection where ALL believers from Adam on receive their glorified body. 1 Co 15:23

Like i say.
My job is to make you go against the bible.

And you have made yourself go against the Bible instead. Weird.

 

[FreeGrace2]

JUST ADMIT YOU BLEW IT.
STOP MAKING SUCH A FOOL OF YOURSELF.

The best way to stop making such a fool of yourself is to QUIT presuming what the Bible never says, but assumes is true anyway.

 

[kleronomos]

You have entered the realm of presumption.

As have you. We have no choice when it isn't written.

 

[kleronomos]

Yes, why would you go to presumption? There is NO EVIDENCE that any of these received glorified bodies and/or were taken to heaven.

There is more evidence that they did than that they did not. Here I show you Here is my evidence that they did, you give me your evidence that they didn't.

1Corinthians 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

Doesn't say of them that are or will be saved or will go to sleep in the future

first of them that slept.

1Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.


21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

AND THEY CAME OUT OF THE GRAVES AND WENT TO TOWN AND SAW PEOPLE AND PEOPLE SAW THEM. THEY WEREN'T IN 'FLESH AND BLOOD' BODIES BECAUSE THOSE DON'T come back to life TO DIE AGAIN. One person, one death. They had that 1st death. So they are either STILL ALIVE walking around on the earth or they ascended when Jesus did.



HOW WOULD SAINTS BE RAISED? WHAT IS WRITTEN ON HOW THEY ARE RAISED?

1 Corinthians 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

1 Corinthians 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

RAISED IN GLORY. A GLORIFIED BODY.


What verses have you for you best educated guess?


1 Corinthians 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.