You are still a slave to sin if you are still doing them. JESUS Gifted us The Way to Overcome!

[Phoneman-777]

if it were agape love it would not wax cold. I am sorry this will be a shock to you but we are not saved by love, love is a fruit of being saved. We are saved by faith.

Bro, I assure you, the "love" that grows cold and dead, leaving those "many" unable to endure to the end and lost, and in a more spit-worthy condition that the spat out Laodiceans who are merely lukewarm...is the Greek "agape".

I'm beginning to think the "fearful" that are going to be outside the walls of New Jerusalem will include among them those who shut themselves up in a theological bubble and refused to examine themselves and their doctrines to see if both are in the faith.

 

[Evmur]

Let's see to Whom the Ten Commandments belong, Moses or Jesus, shall we?

Psalms 78 KJV
78:1 Give ear, O people to My law: incline thine ears to the words of My mouth (10 comms spoken at Sinai).
78:2 I will open My mouth in parable; I will utter dark sayings of old.

Matthew 13 KJV
13:34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:
13: 35 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.

That's right, it was Jesus Who spoke His Ten Commandments at Sinai - Moses was simply a sanctified secretary. John says if you claim to know Jesus but don't keep His Ten Commandments, you're a liar liar pants, butt, body on fire in the Lake of Fire.

"Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart and all thy mind and strength and thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Upon these two hang the law and the prophets"

I dare you to claim that you fulfil this.

You my friend are not only a law breaker but you have never been within a whiff of keeping the law.

 

[Evmur]

Bro, I assure you, the "love" that grows cold and dead, leaving those "many" unable to endure to the end and lost, and in a more spit-worthy condition that the spat out Laodiceans who are merely lukewarm...is the Greek "agape".

I'm beginning to think the "fearful" that are going to be outside the walls of New Jerusalem will include among them those who shut themselves up in a theological bubble and refused to examine themselves and their doctrines to see if both are in the faith.

but YOU are fearful ... you are trying to sow fear and doubt into the minds of the brethren this is your devilish mission in life.

.... and you suppose that God is pleased with you.

 

[Phoneman-777]

he that hath Christ hath life ... His life is eternal. Eternal life [the doctrine of] is soul strengthening doctrine.

We know we are not here today and gone tomorrow, we believe in being planted and not uprooted continually, we shoot down our roots in the rich soil of God's grace, we grow strong and ever more confident as we see the life of Christ being manifest in us.

You are of double mind, unsteady and unstable, saved [are you?] today but not certain about tomorrow. Tossed to and throw by the doctrines of cunning men [or in your case woman Ellen White]

You are like the baals in Elisha's day, shuffling back and forth, flogging each other along.

Do you really think it's reasonable to say, "We don't need to make a full, permanent surrender to receive salvation"?

Didn't David do that? Or Paul? Or Peter? Sure, these "Just Men" slipped up along the way, but each time they did, they took Jesus' hand and rose up again and got back on the Path of the Just.

They didn't need any OSAS License to Sin - they had love for God.

 

[Phoneman-777]

"Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart and all thy mind and strength and thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Upon these two hang the law and the prophets"

I dare you to claim that you fulfil this.

You my friend are not only a law breaker but you have never been within a whiff of keeping the law.

You realize those two laws were NOT "new" laws, right? BOTH are in the OT. They were only "new" to legalist Jews who found the law "grievous" because they practiced "law without love".

OSAS people practice "love without law" which is why it's always "Moses' Law" or "only the Two Great Commandments" or "the law was nailed to the Cross". It's the vain attempt to obtain by dead faith that which can only be obtained by living faith: eternal life.

 

[BroTan]

Jesus brought grace when he came in the flesh, but example of grace was in the days of Noah. But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD. (Genesis 6:8), And Noah and his family was saved. Now Paul said in (Rom. 3:23-25) (v.23) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. (v.24) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: (v.25) Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God. So the bible tells you to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2 :36-38). And by doing so you come up under his precious blood and then you are saved from your sins that are past, not present or future sins but for sins that are past. We were all locked under death by Adam’s sin, even the second death. But when Jesus became (he was God in the beginning) man and died for the sins of the world, he gave us access back to the tree of life (himself) which Adam had caused us to lose. That’s what grace is, our free gift our access back to the tree of life but that’s another lesson for another time.

So by coming under the blood of Jesus you are saved from your past sins. And if you are saved now, it is on a day to day basis. Because for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God (Romans 23:3), and if you continue to live you will sin again. It is the willful sinning that you need to put in check. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. (Hebrew 10: 26, 27)

 

[Evmur]

Do you really think it's reasonable to say, "We don't need to make a full, permanent surrender to receive salvation"?

Didn't David do that? Or Paul? Or Peter? Sure, these "Just Men" slipped up along the way, but each time they did, they took Jesus' hand and rose up again and got back on the Path of the Just.

They didn't need any OSAS License to Sin - they had love for God.

In every instance these men made full surrender subsequent to the Lord calling them. We receive Christ as Lord in faith ... He makes it good.

 

[Evmur]

You realize those two laws were NOT "new" laws, right? BOTH are in the OT. They were only "new" to legalist Jews who found the law "grievous" because they practiced "law without love".

OSAS people practice "love without law" which is why it's always "Moses' Law" or "only the Two Great Commandments" or "the law was nailed to the Cross". It's the vain attempt to obtain by dead faith that which can only be obtained by living faith: eternal life.

You do not fulfil these two and since the law and the prophets hang on them you fail. I'm glad at least you did not foolishly try to claim that you do fulfil them.

 

[Phoneman-777]

you have done more than simply criticize

you have maligned his character

you seem to be suffering from short term memory loss. this is what you said to him:

Your problem is that you think that "come to Him by faith" is a one night stand instead of a marriage...that we can abide in the Vine this week, then hang out at Satan's holly tree down the street next week.

you compared his long term relationship with Christ to a one night stand with a prostitute

take ownership of your crass comments or stop making them

No, darlin, I didn't compare him to anything - I compared "OSAS" to a one night stand, and "Conditional Salvation" to long term marriage.

Whether he loves Christ with all his heart or not is not for me to speculate, but to declare the truth that OSAS is a comfortable lie, and that true believers follow the example of Christ and make the full, permanent surrender of Conditional Salvation.

 

[Phoneman-777]

In every instance these men made full surrender subsequent to the Lord calling them. We receive Christ as Lord in faith ... He makes it good.

We're not "fully surrendered" if we're living in "intermittent rebellion". We're not "more than conquerors" if we're habitually overcome by temptation. We're not "once saved, always saved" if the agape of the saved saints can grow cold and dead, leaving them unable to endure to the end, and lost.

 

[Phoneman-777]

I'm sorry. I didn't know it was your best

Good enough for you to avoid attempting to deconstruct my spiritual propositions, amen?

 

[Blain]

uh...but you responded directly to this



you responded with



see, you directly mentioned my comment re the gifts of the Holy Spirit. so....

Yes for some reason I thought your post came from phoneman not from you and again I apologize. I have pretty bad eye damage so things can get blurry and mixed up at times which is why I cannot read to much at once or read certain colors of text the white back ground of cc puts a strain on my eyes so I have to really focus and this can at times make things appear blurry my eyes are better on some days than others today was not a good day for them and I made a mistake.

 

[Blain]

You didn't begin to insist we're not saved by works when I pointed out the test in 1 John 2:3-4 KJV? Sure you did!

So you clearly will not answer my question my question as @SophieT put it you will not/ cannot all you can do is try to misdirect and change the course of the conversation a childish tactic one that does not get past me.

Do you know why I posed that question? Because it is not only truth but it is truth that I knew would require a very deep answer one with no way for loop holes it is a very tight fit narrow question with room for only a truly deep and biblical answer not one of opinion or interpretation not one of a particular doctrine you may hold or stance you may stand on, no this question was specifically made to be cleverly encased with room for only truth not mans truth but truth alone it is like a striahgt narrow hall way with room for only one vs a maze with many hallways.

I however cannot take credit for the question because it didn't come from me God just put it in my mind to write yet I can see how clever it is the fact you cannot answer it means you have lost this this debate had you answered it honestly we could have gone deeper into this discussion but you see this question poses problems for you doesn't it? you know the problems I speak of.

 

[Evmur]

We're not "fully surrendered" if we're living in "intermittent rebellion". We're not "more than conquerors" if we're habitually overcome by temptation. We're not "once saved, always saved" if the agape of the saved saints can grow cold and dead, leaving them unable to endure to the end, and lost.

David took another man's wife and murdered him. God forgave him before he even repented.

 

[Phoneman-777]

but YOU are fearful ... you are trying to sow fear and doubt into the minds of the brethren this is your devilish mission in life.

.... and you suppose that God is pleased with you.

Cognitive Dissonance - the number one cause of fear and anxiety among Christians who refuse to venture outside their theological bubble, lest they find out they've been wrong and have to make a change.

 

[Evmur]

Cognitive Dissonance - the number one cause of fear and anxiety among Christians who refuse to venture outside their theological bubble, lest they find out they've been wrong and have to make a change.

yeh but you start out from a platform of deceit and hypocrisy for you make keeping the law as necessary unto salvation but you yourself do not, neither are you fully surrendered to God, your surrender is outward and not inward. Christ does not dwell in you.

 

[Blain]

You didn't begin to insist we're not saved by works when I pointed out the test in 1 John 2:3-4 KJV? Sure you did!

And yes

Cognitive Dissonance - the number one cause of fear and anxiety among Christians who refuse to venture outside their theological bubble, lest they find out they've been wrong and have to make a change.

And yet how easily you could be talking about yourself.... You cannot say this about others unless you take into consideration about yourself as well otherwise how will you know if perhpas in fact you were the one you were talking about?

 

[Gardenias]

May God have mercy on ALL our souls!

 

[Phoneman-777]

So you clearly will not answer my question my question as @SophieT put it you will not/ cannot all you can do is try to misdirect and change the course of the conversation a childish tactic one that does not get past me.

Do you know why I posed that question? Because it is not only truth but it is truth that I knew would require a very deep answer one with no way for loop holes it is a very tight fit narrow question with room for only a truly deep and biblical answer not one of opinion or interpretation not one of a particular doctrine you may hold or stance you may stand on, no this question was specifically made to be cleverly encased with room for only truth not mans truth but truth alone it is like a striahgt narrow hall way with room for only one vs a maze with many hallways.

I however cannot take credit for the question because it didn't come from me God just put it in my mind to write yet I can see how clever it is the fact you cannot answer it means you have lost this this debate had you answered it honestly we could have gone deeper into this discussion but you see this question poses problems for you doesn't it? you know the problems I speak of.

What is childish is the failure to recognize the difference between "Christian Origination" and "Christian Obligation".

It's you OSAS folks that misdirect the debate from obligation to origination every single time, and it's so predictable. EVERYONE knows that a sinner becomes a Christian by grace through faith, not works, gift of God, etc. The debate is "can that Christian walk away from God and be lost?" and when our side presents our case which involves obedience to God's commandments as evidence for if the saint is really a saint or not, more often than not they do as YOU did: shift the debate from obligation to origination.

If OSAS is Biblical, how is it that the "many" whose "agape" grows cold and dead, leaving them unable to endure to the end, and lost....are saints? Posthuman ridiculously suggests that the wicked, such as demon worshipers, drunkards, dope fiends, mass murderers, etc., can partake of "agape" so they aren't saints, but I've shown only the saints can demonstrate "agape" which is keeping the commandments, because the carnal mind can't do that. What say you?

 

[Blain]

May God have mercy on ALL our souls!

He already has my friend My eternal righteousness carries you
Mercy