Judas death…. It’s not when you think

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Artios1

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Dec 11, 2020
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#1
The first thing to remember when it comes too apparent contradictions is that “there are no contradictions in the Bible”. Errors in transmission, deliberate forgeries, mistranslation, or misunderstanding are all causes for what appears, as apparent contradictions.

Matthew 27:5 seems to indicate that Judas hanged himself before the crucifixion.
And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.

Because of this one verse in Matthew we have always thought that Judas immediately went out and hanged himself, but the verse in 1Co 15:5 and the records (together) in both Luk 24:33-36 and Jhn 20:20-24 show Judas being present after the resurrection, which is a notable or apparent contradiction.↓

1Co 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: 15:5 And that he was seen of Cephas, “then of the twelve”:
And↓

Luk 24:33-36 – both these accounts are linked….to save space.
Jhn 20:20-24 read both to make the connection.


Because God is perfect, so also is His Word in its original form. So when we run across something that doesn’t fit or appears to contradict itself, we must look in one of the above four categories; in this case it has to be “misunderstanding” of the words “hanged himself” in Mat 27:5

The word translated hanged himself in the King James version is apanchomai from the Greek word apanchô it is used only once in the New Testament.

In classic literature it means to “strangle” or “to choke” ....and is used figuratively to mean “to choke with anger” or “grief” (1.)

The Expositor’s Greek Testament makes note of Grotius, who suggests that apanchô points to death by grief… rather than literal choking. (2.) ….This is correct only to the extent that Judas did not die immediately in Matthew 27, but he was extremely grieved over the betrayal.
This figurative usage is also verified in the classical writings Aristophanes (3.)

(1.) Henry G. Liddell and Robert Scott. A Greek – English Lexicon, rev. by Henry S. Jones {1843; 9th ed., Oxford Press} 1940 p.174
(2.) W. Robertson Nicoll, The Expositor’s Greek Testament, 6 vols. {London Hodder and Stoughton, 1897} 1:323.
(3.) Aristophanes Vespae 686.


This seems to be what this word “hanged himself” suggest and would fit with the emotional torment and grief that Judas would be going through.
We can, from a human aspect, understand just how one might feel after betraying not just a friend, but also someone who you now realize was the redeemer for Israel.

But there is a greater depth to his betrayal culturally that we must understand in order to fully grasps the agonizing grief that was taking hold of Judas; and that is “the covenant of salt.”
In short: the salt covenant is an oriental custom still in practice today. It means that when you partook in the covenant, be it from salted food, drink, or exchanged a pinch of salt at the marriage ceremony, your words were your bond, you would never …..even at the cost of death, betray that person you had a covenant with.
There is no reference I could give you, at least in western culture that would equal that of the covenant of salt. It is so honored that you could leave a known thief with all your worldly possessions and money, and not worry about a thing if you had a covenant of salt with that person.
The honorable thing to do if you broke the covenant of salt was to commit suicide, and if you did not, someone else would be obliged to do it for you.
Many references of salted words and salt covenant are found throughout the old and new Testament; Judas, as did the rest of the Apostles had a salt covenant with Jesus.

But if Judas is alive after the resurrection ………..when and how did he die? We have already seen in the aforementioned verses (1Co 15:5) (Luk 24:33-36 /Jhn 20:20-24)… that Judas was still alive after the resurrection…..By following the pronouns from in Acts verse 3 through 10 gives us an indication of what took place

Act 1:1- 11

Acts 1:1 The former treaties (scrolls of Luke) have I made O Theophilus (beloved of God) of all that Jesus began both to do and teach.

2. Until the day in which He was taken up after that He through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles (Luk 6:13-16) whom he had chosen:

3. To whom he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them (the 12 apostles whom he had chosen) forty days and speaking of the things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.

4. And being assembled together with them commanded them (the 12) that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father which saith he, ye have heard of me.

5. For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence..

6. When they (the 12) therefore were come together they (the 12) asked of Him, saying, “Lord, wilt Thou at this time restore again the kingdom if Israel?”

7. And He said unto them, (the 12) it is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in His own power.

8. But ye shall receive power after that the holy ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Judaea, and in Samaria and unto the uttermost parts of the earth..

9. And when He had spoken these things, while they (the 12) beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

10. And while they (the 12) looked steadfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel.

11. Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, which was taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Sometime between verse 10 and verse 11 Judas Iscariot left to commit suicide. We know this by following the pronouns from verse three to verse 10, speaking of “the apostles whom Jesus had chosen” in verse two.
In verse eleven it changes from “them” to “ye men of Galilee,” Judas Iscariot was the only non-Galilean, he was from Kerioth, a town in Judea. We do not know how much time took place between verse 10 and 11 .....but it was sufficient time for Judas to take a hike, and shortly thereafter…. take his life.

What happened to Judas is explained in Acts 1:18 Now this man purchased a field (chōrion) with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.

Even after seeing Jesus at least three times, and having been forgiven by the Lord, it must have been too much for him to cope with. Through his agonizing grief opened himself up to being possessed with the spirit of suicide, impaling himself on a sharp instrument, possibly sword, or a sharp stake.

Some food for thought …. If Judas did kill himself before the ascension ….wouldn’t Jesus be the likely candidate to select a new apostle?

And if Judas did kill himself immediately after the betrayal ….and Jesus did not find it necessary to replace him …………why would the apostles feel it necessary to do so?
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
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#2
Interesting food for thought.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
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#3

Artios1

Born again to serve
Dec 11, 2020
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#4
Jan 30, 2022
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#5
What happened to Judas is explained in Acts 1:18 Now this man purchased a field (chōrion) with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.
Very interesting

I noticed you had, from what I can determine, the greek word for field. Was there a reason for that or was it unintentional?
 

Artios1

Born again to serve
Dec 11, 2020
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#6
Very interesting

I noticed you had, from what I can determine, the greek word for field. Was there a reason for that or was it unintentional?
It was unintentionally….. I had to cut back my post, so it fit within the prescribed limit on a single page….I missed that word….But, here is the explanation I left out.

There were two fields ….which very often are confused as one. The potter’s field …..and Aceldama, or the property of blood.... a plot that Judas had purchased previously.

There are two different Greek words used. The field that Judas purchased….. presumably with $$ from the treasure bag as the scriptures indicates. This is where he took his life. The Potters field was purchased by the chief priests with the 30 pcs of silver that Judas returned.

Act 1:18 Now this man purchased a field (chōrion) with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.

Jhn 12:6 This he said, not that he cared for the poor; but because he was a thief, and had the bag, and bare (carried off) what was put therein.


Fields

Chōrion = A plot or parcel of ground — known as Aceldama or the property of blood Act 1:19

Agros = Large field – known as Potters field or the field of blood Mat 27:7 & 8
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
5,022
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#7
Gill:

then of the twelve; though there were then but eleven of them, Judas being gone from them, and having destroyed himself; and at the first appearance of Christ to them, there were but ten present, Thomas being absent; and yet because their original number, when first chosen and called, were twelve, they still went by the same name; see Joh_20:24. The appearance or appearances here referred to are those in Joh_20:19. The Vulgate Latin reads the "eleven"; and so the Claromontane exemplar.
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
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#8
Judas hanged himself the normal way or rope suicide. The "12" was just a name for the group despite there was only 11.

There was a rap band called D12. Originally there were 12 members but eventually were less but they kept the same name.
 

SomeDisciple

Well-known member
Jul 4, 2021
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#9
Judas probably just hanged himself, fell from where he hanged and then splattered on the ground.

There were two fields ….which very often are confused as one. The potter’s field …..and Aceldama, or the property of blood.... a plot that Judas had purchased previously.
Doesn't sound like 2 fields to me. It sounds like the Priests just bought the field (the same place where he killed himself) for him with his money. Saying that Judas purchased the field isn't contrary, it's just semantics. Acts 1:20 sounds awfully alot like a place where you would bury strangers like in Matt 27.

And if Judas did kill himself immediately after the betrayal ….and Jesus did not find it necessary to replace him …………why would the apostles feel it necessary to do so?
They say why, right there in Acts 1. Fulfillment of scripture, psalm 109. Matthias was the one to take Judas' office. He is considered one of the 12, and was there for everything. This all comes off as some kind of Gnostic shenanigans. It's doubtful he killed himself after Jesus' resurrection; and if Jesus forgave him, then why would he kill himself? There's no scriptural reference to support suicide being an acceptable thing before God... How is Jesus gonna forgive Judas and not comfort him, like he did Peter? Not likely.
 
Jan 14, 2021
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#10
Mat 27 gives a chronology of what Judas did, but it does not indicate that the hanging was immediate. The description is also irrespective of the timing of Jesus' trial. Mat 27:11 does not say "and THEN..." but merely points to "and"

Silver -> busted guts -> hanging

Puncturing the abdominal wall is not immediately lethal but without proper care leads to infection and a long and pain death. The culture of the day was also big into reading signs, which the misfortune of splitting one's guts might have been seen as a sign.
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
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#11
I disagree.. Judas did hang himself on the same day of the execution of Jesus.. Now there was a reason why Joseph of Arimathaea was urgent to get the body of Jesus off the cross and in the tomb before sunset.. Because at sunset the High Sabbath, the First Day of Unleavened bread was starting at sunset and The Bible declares that an executed person should not hang overnight.. That it is a curse..

(Deuteronomy 21:22-23) "¶ And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be to be put to death, and thou hang him on a tree: {23} His body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged is accursed of God ) that thy land be not defiled, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance."

So the Jews thought it an even greater curse and the land would be defiled if an executed person hanged on a tree during a sabbath night..

So Joseph of Arimathaea succeeded in preventing this happening with the body of Jesus..

But for Judas it was a completely different ending.. Judas hanged himself on the tree in the potters field he wanted to buy and his body hanged overnight during the High Sabbath, the First Day of Unleavened bread.. So the Jews believed that Judas and the potters field where cursed and so no one would take his body down from the tree.. So as nature took it's course and the body of judas started to rot the rope cut through his body's neck and his now decayed body fell to the ground and burst open.. Now the money Judas had tried to give back to the High priests in the temple was blood money and the High priests did not want to have anything to do with it.. So the solution was simple.. The owner of the potters field no longer wanted the field because it was cursed and so the 30 silver pieces where given to Him as payment for the field.. Note even though Judas was dead the money was still his and so in the end Judas ( or more accurately ) Judas's estate came to purchase and own the now cursed potters field..
 
Jan 14, 2021
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#12
I disagree.. Judas did hang himself on the same day of the execution of Jesus.. Now there was a reason why Joseph of Arimathaea was urgent to get the body of Jesus off the cross and in the tomb before sunset.. Because at sunset the High Sabbath, the First Day of Unleavened bread was starting at sunset and The Bible declares that an executed person should not hang overnight.. That it is a curse..

(Deuteronomy 21:22-23) "¶ And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be to be put to death, and thou hang him on a tree: {23} His body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged is accursed of God ) that thy land be not defiled, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance."

So the Jews thought it an even greater curse and the land would be defiled if an executed person hanged on a tree during a sabbath night..

So Joseph of Arimathaea succeeded in preventing this happening with the body of Jesus..

But for Judas it was a completely different ending.. Judas hanged himself on the tree in the potters field he wanted to buy and his body hanged overnight during the High Sabbath, the First Day of Unleavened bread.. So the Jews believed that Judas and the potters field where cursed and so no one would take his body down from the tree.. So as nature took it's course and the body of judas started to rot the rope cut through his body's neck and his now decayed body fell to the ground and burst open.. Now the money Judas had tried to give back to the High priests in the temple was blood money and the High priests did not want to have anything to do with it.. So the solution was simple.. The owner of the potters field no longer wanted the field because it was cursed and so the 30 silver pieces where given to Him as payment for the field.. Note even though Judas was dead the money was still his and so in the end Judas ( or more accurately ) Judas's estate came to purchase and own the now cursed potters field..
I find the interpretation interesting, but Acts 1:18 describes that he fell headlong resulting in his guts being spilled out. The "silver -> hanging -> burst guts" interpretation doesn't seem to be consistent with scripture.
 

Artios1

Born again to serve
Dec 11, 2020
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#13
Gill:

then of the twelve; though there were then but eleven of them, Judas being gone from them, and having destroyed himself; and at the first appearance of Christ to them, there were but ten present, Thomas being absent; and yet because their original number, when first chosen and called, were twelve, they still went by the same name; see Joh_20:24. The appearance or appearances here referred to are those in Joh_20:19. The Vulgate Latin reads the "eleven"; and so the Claromontane exemplar.
maybe this will clarify
Luk 24:33 And they rose up the same hour, and returned to Jerusalem, and found the eleven gathered together, and them that were with them,
Jhn 20:24 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came.

The Word states that it was Thomas who was not there.
 

Artios1

Born again to serve
Dec 11, 2020
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#14
Judas hanged himself the normal way or rope suicide. The "12" was just a name for the group despite there was only 11.

There was a rap band called D12. Originally there were 12 members but eventually were less but they kept the same name.
I will let the Word speak.

Luk 24:33 And they rose up the same hour, and returned to Jerusalem, and found the eleven gathered together, and them that were with them,
 

Artios1

Born again to serve
Dec 11, 2020
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#15
Doesn't sound like 2 fields to me. It sounds like the Priests just bought the field (the same place where he killed himself) for him with his money. Saying that Judas purchased the field isn't contrary, it's just semantics. Acts 1:20 sounds awfully alot like a place where you would bury strangers like in Matt 27.
Act 1:18 Now this man purchased a field (chōrion) with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.
Purchased ...is acquired

Yes, semantics…which is made up of words. God uses words to communicate. If words are meaningless …then the Bible is useless. Man’s words are sometimes meaningless, but….. The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. (Psa 12:6)

Fields

Chōrion = A plot or parcel of ground — known as Aceldama or the property of blood Act 1:19
Agros = Large field – known as Potters field or the field of blood Mat 27:7 & 8

The difference between Chōrion and Agros is like comparing a lot in a subdivision to several acres outside of town.

They say why, right there in Acts 1. Fulfillment of scripture, psalm 109. Matthias was the one to take Judas' office. He is considered one of the 12, and was there for everything. This all comes off as some kind of Gnostic shenanigans. It's doubtful he killed himself after Jesus' resurrection; and if Jesus forgave him, then why would he kill himself? There's no scriptural reference to support suicide being an acceptable thing before God... How is Jesus gonna forgive Judas and not comfort him, like he did Peter? Not likely.
I understand the reason for Matthias as per the scripture. My questions were rhetorical regarding the 40 days in between the time of the resurrection and ascension while Jesus was still on earth and could have selected one to take Judas place if he had immediately killed himself ….
As for this being Gnostic shenanigans…I think the religious institutions have the monopoly on that with what they have taught us regarding Judas and other things.
What people believe is up to them…it doesn’t alter the written Word… and it’s the Word that shows Judas alive after the resurrection, not my …Gnostic shenanigans.
 

Artios1

Born again to serve
Dec 11, 2020
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#16
I disagree.. Judas did hang himself on the same day of the execution of Jesus.. Now there was a reason why Joseph of Arimathaea was urgent to get the body of Jesus off the cross and in the tomb before sunset.. Because at sunset the High Sabbath, the First Day of Unleavened bread was starting at sunset and The Bible declares that an executed person should not hang overnight.. That it is a curse..

(Deuteronomy 21:22-23) "¶ And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be to be put to death, and thou hang him on a tree: {23} His body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged is accursed of God ) that thy land be not defiled, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance."

So the Jews thought it an even greater curse and the land would be defiled if an executed person hanged on a tree during a sabbath night..

So Joseph of Arimathaea succeeded in preventing this happening with the body of Jesus..

But for Judas it was a completely different ending.. Judas hanged himself on the tree in the potters field he wanted to buy and his body hanged overnight during the High Sabbath, the First Day of Unleavened bread.. So the Jews believed that Judas and the potters field where cursed and so no one would take his body down from the tree.. So as nature took it's course and the body of judas started to rot the rope cut through his body's neck and his now decayed body fell to the ground and burst open.. Now the money Judas had tried to give back to the High priests in the temple was blood money and the High priests did not want to have anything to do with it.. So the solution was simple.. The owner of the potters field no longer wanted the field because it was cursed and so the 30 silver pieces where given to Him as payment for the field.. Note even though Judas was dead the money was still his and so in the end Judas ( or more accurately ) Judas's estate came to purchase and own the now cursed potters field..
That's cool...your disagreement is not with me.….. I am not trying to change minds or twist the Word ..that has been done for us through the religious institutions. In this case…. religion has given us twisted logic to defend one scripture in Mat 27:5 against several contrary scripture that do not coincide with Matthew....
Logic should dictate that we research the one to see why it contradicts the others....rather than tossing the other to support the 1
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
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#17
maybe this will clarify
Luk 24:33 And they rose up the same hour, and returned to Jerusalem, and found the eleven gathered together, and them that were with them,
Jhn 20:24 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came.

The Word states that it was Thomas who was not there.
Your mixing up two different Gospels.. Jesus visited the Apostles at lest twice..
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
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#18
That's cool...your disagreement is not with me.….. I am not trying to change minds or twist the Word ..that has been done for us through the religious institutions. In this case…. religion has given us twisted logic to defend one scripture in Mat 27:5 against several contrary scripture that do not coincide with Matthew....
Logic should dictate that we research the one to see why it contradicts the others....rather than tossing the other to support the 1
Scriptures do not contradict.. The limitation of our human intellect leads us to suspect that the Scriptures contradict.. Instead of acknowledging our limitations and trusting in Gods Word we declare what we do not understand a contadiction and declare the scriptures false..

But God is correct and His Word is Truth.. And we are limited in understanding..
 

Artios1

Born again to serve
Dec 11, 2020
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#19
Your mixing up two different Gospels.. Jesus visited the Apostles at lest twice..
Not mixing ...using two different gospels....same biblical account.
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
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#20
Not mixing ...using two different gospels....same biblical account.
How do you support the idea that Luke::

Luk 24:33 And they rose up the same hour, and returned to Jerusalem, and found the eleven gathered together, and them that were with them,

IS talking about the first visit? Not the second visit when Thomas was present..