The Ukraine Thread

[2ndRateMind]

So, I thought we should have a thread to comment around the circumstances in Ukraine. It's all potentially very dangerous, and some of us have friends and relations in the military who might be called to serve there.

One thing's for sure: Putin speaks with forked tongue. In fact, he is completely reliable in his lies. If he says X, you can be sure that not X is the case. Similarly, if he says not Y, you can know the truth is Y.

So, how do you see the situation developing?

Best wishes, 2RM

 

[A-Sword-Cometh]

The king of Meshech better act fast and execute the judgement of God lest the Lord Jesus Christ come and take away the power of the Sword away from him and give it to one who will.

 

[Oblio]

If NATO had assured Russia that Ukraine would not be admitted to the organization, none of this would be happening. We don't want Russian missiles on our borders...why should Russia tolerate ours on theirs?

 

[2ndRateMind]

It seems Putin wants a buffer zone of neutral or Eastward-oriented states between him and Nato. To achieve this in the free, westward-oriented Ukraine some pretext would have been found to the detriment of that nation, sooner or later. We also need to remember that the Ukraine had nuclear missiles at the end of the cold war, but agreed to give them up. Otherwise they would have a deterrent that maybe even Putin could not afford to overlook.

Best wishes, 2RM.

 

[Mission21]

One thing's for sure: Putin speaks with forked tongue. In fact, he is completely reliable in his lies. If he says X, you can be sure that not X is the case. Similarly, if he says not Y, you can know the truth is Y

Good point.
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I was in Russia..some years ago.
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Interesting to note:
Many people in Russia miss.. .the days/era of USSR.

 

[A-Sword-Cometh]

With Russia recognizing Luhansk and Donetsk as independent yesterday any attack on them by Ukraine could be viewed as Ukraine being the aggressor and starting a war of invasion to which Russia would be obligated to come to their defense.

 

[2ndRateMind]

So far as I understand the situation, the troops there are Russians and Separatists, and therefore the invaders/revolutionaries. If the majority of the people of Ukraine were in favour of dismembering their state, I think you would have a point. But Putin has form on this, in the Crimea. I have yet to hear the testimony of a Ukrainian in favour.

Best wishes, 2RM.

 

[A-Sword-Cometh]

So far as I understand the situation, the troops there are Russians and Separatists, and therefore the invaders/revolutionaries. If the majority of the people of Ukraine were in favour of dismembering their state, I think you would have a point. But Putin has form on this, in the Crimea. I have yet to hear the testimony of a Ukrainian in favour.

Best wishes, 2RM.

Well, we shall see very soon if Ukraine falls into the device that Meshech has laid before their feet.

 

[2ndRateMind]

Many people in Russia miss.. .the days/era of USSR.

Yes, I have heard so. And with the oligarchs enriching themselves at the expense of everyone else, and the nation as a whole, that is understandable.

Best wishes, 2RM.

 

[mailmandan]

White House declares Russian invasion in Ukraine

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/white-house-russian-invasion-ukraine

 

[2ndRateMind]

I have to ask: who is this Meshech character? I do not recall him from lessons at school or the scriptures I have read since.

Best wishes, 2RM.

 

[JaumeJ]

Rosh, Meshach, chief prince of Tubal. I believe that is in Ezekiel. Let me know.

Oh I have been taught by some that Rosh *head( is the name that later evolved into Russia. Meshech is supposed to have evolved into Mush Cush, and finally into Moscow.. Let me know. Tubal is the area where Russia is now. You let me know now.

 

[2ndRateMind]

Rosh, Meshach, chief prince of Tubal. I believe that is in Ezekiel. Let me know.

Oh I have been taught by some that Rosh *head( is the name that later evolved into Russia. Meshech is supposed to have evolved into Mush Cush, and finally into Moscow.. Let me know. Tubal is the area where Russia is now. You let me know now.

Ah, that would explain my ignorance then. I see the OT as setting the context for the NT, and not otherwise much use. (ie, it demonstrates the extent of the paradigm shift Jesus wrought) So, I tend to read the NT for instruction.

Best wishes, 2RM.

 

[arthurfleminger]

So, I thought we should have a thread to comment around the circumstances in Ukraine. It's all potentially very dangerous, and some of us have friends and relations in the military who might be called to serve there.

One thing's for sure: Putin speaks with forked tongue. In fact, he is completely reliable in his lies. If he says X, you can be sure that not X is the case. Similarly, if he says not Y, you can know the truth is Y.

So, how do you see the situation developing?

Best wishes, 2RM

The Ukrainians have been invaded, but they haven't fired a shot in their own defense, They have the their largest military forces in the region, behind only the Russians and the French. And they have powerful military weaponry from the USA and Europe. Yet they've been invaded and haven't fired a shot. Reminisent of the Afghanistis who competely collapsed without a fight, dependent on others to do their bidding. If the Ukranians are sincere about their right to a soverignty they will fight for their rights. And, so far they are not. Instead, they are only asking for support for other countries. If the Ukrainians aren't willing to fight for themselves, then nobody else should. Simple as that.

 

[Nehemiah6]

We don't want Russian missiles on our borders...why should Russia tolerate ours on theirs?

Simple. The threat to Europe from Russia is far greater than the opposite.

Also Russia has been blackmailing Europe through the latter's dependence on energy from Russia. But no European country is interested in marching into Russia. So in order to defend all the countries which could be (or have been) threatened by Russia, NATO needs to build a shield (which should have really happened after the fall of the Soviet Union, not now. Too little and too late as usual).

What has made matters worse is that (a) Biden has made America dependent on Russian oil and (b) Biden and his gang of thugs have been making empty threats against Russia instead of sitting down like grown ups and working out a proper solution. Russia knows that the present government of the USA is totally incompetent and weak, so he will do as he pleases. First Biden removed all the sanctions against Russia and now he is putting then back within a matter of months. What kind of stupidity is that? First Biden encouraged the Russian Nord Stream 2 pipeline and now Germany has just shut it down. What kind of stupidity is that?

The same goes for Iran -- removing all sanctions and helping Iran to become a rouge nuclear power. This is basically treason, since Iran is the sworn enemy of America. So why hasn't Biden been impeached?

 

[Oblio]

I don't blame Russia.

 

[2ndRateMind]

I don't blame Russia.

You don't have to. I blame Putin enough for both of us.

Best wishes, 2RM.

 

[Oblio]

Be my guest.

 

[2ndRateMind]

The Ukrainians have been invaded, but they haven't fired a shot in their own defense, ...

On the contrary, the Ukrainians have been fighting Russians since the invasion of Crimea in 2016. But they are hopelessly outgunned, and need to pick their fights judiciously.

Best wishes, 2RM.

 

[2ndRateMind]

...The same goes for Iran -- removing all sanctions and helping Iran to become a rouge nuclear power. This is basically treason, since Iran is the sworn enemy of America. So why hasn't Biden been impeached?

Maybe because it was Trump that reneged on the containing Iran deal?

Best wishes, 2RM