Anybody believe that Daniel's 70TH week has been fulfilled by Jesus - and then Stephen?

[Beckie]

Note that even this writer ^ (tho I may disagree with certain of his points) is saying the REVELATION of the MYSTERY HID IN GOD (that HE / GOD ALREADY KNEW ABOUT (not to mention PLANNED *BEFORE [PRO]* the foundation of the world!) but HAD NOT YET DISCLOSED [in OT times before the CROSS] for reasons stated in 1 Corinthians 2:8 as I had pointed out... is NOT the same thing as saying "God had to COME UP with a PLAN B [i.e "the Church"]" because He was thrown for a loop when Israel rejected Christ... HOGWASH[!] and not at all what even THIS writer ^ (flawed as he may be elsewhere) is saying here.

Please note this.

Do not keep repeating the "fluffy rumors" that have no basis in reality (as far as what "Dispensationalists" teach / are saying)

Ignoring what some of the fathers of dispensationalism wrote does not change them ...

Do you really believe God wants to smell the smell of burning beef?

Eze 43:19 And thou shalt give to the priests the Levites that be of the seed of Zadok, which approach unto me, to minister unto me, saith the Lord GOD, a young bullock for a sin offering. how could butchering a beef be compared to the Cross after the fact.

Scofield's note
Doubtless these offerings will be memorial, looking back to the cross, as the offerings under the old covenant were anticipatory, looking forward to the cross. In neither case have animal sacrifices power to put away sin. Heb_10:4; Rom_3:25.

 

[GaryA]

So do you know what this passage is saying? So far it seems that you do not. And there are definitely dots to be connected. So kindly make the effort.

I have made the effort. And - yes - I know what the passage is saying - and - what it is not saying.

The dots are connected and the picture is quite clear.

There is no antichrist in Daniel 9:24-27.

There is no treaty with Israel, either.

There is no [real actual AoD 'event'].

All three 'he' words are referring to Christ.

Before you can see these things clearly yourself, you will have to 'unlearn' the 'error' that you have been taught.

 

[cv5]

Your focus is on the wrong thing. The Beast will (re)make everyone in his image first and foremost, whoever is (re)made in his image will help enforce it willingly like the mask police, that’s how the image can kill anybody who disobeys. The mark is merely a final certificate of that. If you wanna learn what the Bible really says about the Mark, read Deut 6:8 and 1 Kings 10:14, those are two clues.

Yes those are good scriptural references. What I'm trying to say is the abomination of desolation is a discrete act and event apart from receiving the mark. Only the antichrist commits the blasphemy of the abomination of desolation......and it occurs in the temple in Jerusalem.

The vast multitudes of the deceived/unsaved take the mark......In all manner of locations and times. And yes I do agree that there's some kind of fundamental spiritual change in the person who takes the mark. There is probably some element of trans-humanism where they turn into a "mini-beast". In the same way that Christians are called "little-Christs".

 

[Beckie]

Which Bible translation places an antichrist in The Revelation of Jesus Christ?

 

[GaryA]

It could be multiple historic - and future - events of the same nature, not necessarily limited to one. That's why this term is used at least four times in Daniel in different sections of prophecies.

The [real actual] AoD 'event' is referred to in 11:31 and 12:11. It is not [specifically] referred to in 9:27.

Where would that fourth place be?

 

[peldom10]

I have made the effort. And - yes - I know what the passage is saying - and - what it is not saying.

The dots are connected and the picture is quite clear.

There is no antichrist in Daniel 9:24-27.

There is no treaty with Israel, either.

There is no [real actual AoD 'event'].

All three 'he' words are referring to Christ.

Before you can see these things clearly yourself, you will have to 'unlearn' the 'error' that you have been taught.

KJV 1611 edition Daniel 9;....(generally reflects the tribulation period effects....which is the 70th week of Daniel as 7 years);

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

(26 depicts the death of Christ....cut off....the time stopped ...69 weeks of years...until the tribulation...which is the 70th week...thus...of Daniel)

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Yes those are good scriptural references. What I'm trying to say is the abomination of desolation is a discrete act and event apart from receiving the mark. Only the antichrist commits the blasphemy of the abomination of desolation......and it occurs in the temple in Jerusalem.

The vast multitudes of the deceived/unsaved take the mark......In all manner of locations and times. And yes I do agree that there's some kind of fundamental spiritual change in the person who takes the mark. There is probably some element of trans-humanism where they turn into a "mini-beast". In the same way that Christians are called "little-Christs".

Look, there ain't gonna be no physical third temple in modern day Israel. When Jesus declared that it would be left desolate, it's left desolate forever. It is abundantly clear that God's new temple is the Body of Christ, go read John 2:21, 1 Cor. 6:19, 1 Cor. 3:16-17 and 2 Cor. 6:16-18. God doesn't dwell in any man-made physical temple. That's NOT a "spiritual" reading, that's a LITERAL reading of these specific verses. I remember Jesus said somewhere that anyone who blasphemes him can still be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes the Holy Spirit will NOT. And guess what, blaspheming the Holy Spirit, the third person of the Most High is exactly what the Antichrist is planning do by setting up his own image.

The [real actual] AoD 'event' is referred to in 11:31 and 12:11. It is not [specifically] referred to in 9:27.

Where would that fourth place be?

Yes, the specific term "Abomination of Desolation" is only quoted verbatim in 11:31 and 12:11, in 9:27 it's more like a "punishment of desolation for your (overspreading of) abomination; another place is somewhere in chapter 8 about the goat and ram vision, where it's mentioned that the daily sacrifice will cease.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

The [real actual] AoD 'event' is referred to in 11:31 and 12:11. It is not [specifically] referred to in 9:27.

I agree there are these mentions in Daniel... (and that the mention in chpt 9 is not "singular" as Jesus was talking about in Matt24:15 "AOD [singular / singular]");

... but I see 11:31's [AOD singular/singular] was in connection with A4E (in PAST history), whereas 12:11's [AOD singular / singular] is yet FUTURE,

...for one reason, because it is connected somewhat also to the "1335 days" ("BLESSED is he that WAITETH and COMETH TO the 1335 days--not entirely distinct days from the 1290 days in v.11... and Daniel being told he [after "REST" / death] will "STAND IN THY LOT at the END of the DAYS" i.e. YET FUTURE [to us]); as well as 12:6-7,1's day-amount / time-period connecting back with the day-amounts / time-period referenced in Daniel 12:20,21,22,25,27 where verse 22 connects precisely with Rev20:4a [not 4b], "and judgment was given to the saints of the most High"... and vv.20b,25a [mouth / speak] connects with Rev13:5-7 [also YET FUTURE])

 

[GaryA]

KJV 1611 edition Daniel 9;....(generally reflects the tribulation period effects....which is the 70th week of Daniel as 7 years);

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

(26 depicts the death of Christ....cut off....the time stopped ...69 weeks of years...until the tribulation...which is the 70th week...thus...of Daniel)

The 70th week of Daniel does not 'equate' to a "7-year tribulation period" (which does not exist anywhere in scripture).

The 70th week of Daniel ended in 34 A.D.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

as well as 12:6-7,1's day-amount / time-period connecting back with the day-amounts / time-period referenced in Daniel 12:20,21,22,25,27 where [...]

TYPO: should read Daniel 7:20,21,22,25,27

 

[GaryA]

Yes, the specific term "Abomination of Desolation" is only quoted verbatim in 11:31 and 12:11, in 9:27 it's more like a "punishment of desolation for your (overspreading of) abomination; another place is somewhere in chapter 8 about the goat and ram vision, where it's mentioned that the daily sacrifice will cease.

The [literal] 'event' phrase is 'the abomination that maketh desolate'.

What is referred to in Daniel 9:27 is a broad general statement about 'abomination(s)' (plural). It is not [specifically] referring to the AoD event.

In chapter 8, a reference is made to the AoD event from a historical perspective.

The [real actual] event occurred in 167 B.C.

It only happened once.

It only needed to happen once.

It is fulfilled.

There is no future AoD event.

The Olivet Discourse AoD reference is not a prophecy about a future AoD 'event' like most people believe.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

The [literal] 'event' phrase is 'the abomination that maketh desolate'.

What is referred to in Daniel 9:27 is a broad general statement about 'abomination(s)' (plural). It is not [specifically] referring to the AoD event.

In chapter 8, a reference is made to the AoD event from a historical perspective.

The [real actual] event occurred in 167 B.C.

It only happened once.

It only needed to happen once.

It is fulfilled.

There is no future AoD event.

The Olivet Discourse AoD reference is not a prophecy about a future AoD 'event' like most people believe.

I agree with you on 9:27, but I believe 11:31 is about Antiochus and 12:11 is definitely set in future. In the Olivet Discourse, Jesus is referencing historic event in the past to help the disciples understand the future, using the known to perceive the unknown. It's a common method we're all familiar with.

 

[GaryA]

... but I see 11:31's [AOD singular/singular] was in connection with A4E (in PAST history), whereas 12:11's [AOD singular / singular] is yet FUTURE,

...for one reason, because it is connected somewhat also to the "1335 days"

11:31 - A4E - yes

12:11 - referring to the same [overall] event

All past - no future.

 

[GaryA]

In the Olivet Discourse, Jesus is referencing historic event in the past to help the disciples understand the future, using the known to perceive the unknown. It's a common method we're all familiar with.

Except that very-precious-few understand this - most believe it is a prophecy about a future AoD 'event'.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

There is no antichrist in Daniel 9:24-27.

A few things for you and the readers to consider:

1) in 1 John 2:18, it states, "as ye have heard that antichrist is coming [/comes - G2064]..." (and then goes on to speak about the many antichrists present "EVEN NOW" [we aren't discussing those here]), the "YE HAVE HEARD" word (LIKE is used in Matthew 5:21,27,33,38,43) refers specifically (not to "ye have heard mere RUMORS [/falsehoods]," or the like, or even "ye have heard people say") back to OT SCRIPTURES which HAVE SAID something about this Subject;

2) in 2Th2:9a, regarding "the man of sin" (if you agree this phrase / person is equated with what we call the "AC"), states, "whose COMING [/arrival / advent / presence / parousia - G3952]"... and then further down in the text describes / identifies this person using very similar language to that found in Daniel 11:36-37 (the place in chpt 11 where many like myself believe is the break in the chpt from speaking of A4E in PAST history, to the person in FAR FUTURE [recall, Daniel being told he would "[rest / in death] and STAND IN THY LOT at the END of the days" being spoken of IN THAT CONTEXT, which hasn't happened yet!]--these types of prophetic breaks in a passage or verse, separated by MUCH TIME, are fairly common in OT prophecies and writings);




... if you can agree that the phrase "YE HAVE HEARD" [re: that antichrist is coming/comes] speaks of THAT WHICH THE OT HAD ALREADY SPOKEN ABOUT (like Matt5 uses this phrase repeatedly to refer to such), where in the text of the OT would you say that it has?
What passage or passages in the OT has spoken of such a thing (using the word "IS COMING / COMES" especially), so that the writer of 1 John could be referencing it in just this way?

 

[cv5]

The [literal] 'event' phrase is 'the abomination that maketh desolate'.

What is referred to in Daniel 9:27 is a broad general statement about 'abomination(s)' (plural). It is not [specifically] referring to the AoD event.

In chapter 8, a reference is made to the AoD event from a historical perspective.

The [real actual] event occurred in 167 B.C.

It only happened once.

It only needed to happen once.

It is fulfilled.

There is no future AoD event.

The Olivet Discourse AoD reference is not a prophecy about a future AoD 'event' like most people believe.

Dan 9:27......."cause the sacrifice and oblation to cease" is the same event the 2Thes 2:4 and Matt 24:15, Mk 13:14. And Matthew 24:15 & Mk 13:14 are a direct reference to Dan 9:27. So we can deduce that they are all one and the same thing.

Wether this is an idol, a person, or both is not important. The point is the temple has been defiled and Jewish priestly sacrifices have been made to cease.

I know you zany preterists don't like to tie all these Scriptures together but they match perfectly nevertheless.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

11:31 - A4E - yes

12:11 - referring to the same [overall] event

All past - no future.

I do recall (I think it was you) your saying that Jesus was stating (something along the lines of): "WHEN YE THEREFORE SHALL SEE something LIKE the AOD [singular / singular] spoken of by Daniel the prophet referring to A4E in PAST HISTORY BC, standing in the holy place, [...] THEN flee..."



I'm not buying it.



[I do not believe that's how "prophecies" work]

 

[cv5]

The [literal] 'event' phrase is 'the abomination that maketh desolate'.

What is referred to in Daniel 9:27 is a broad general statement about 'abomination(s)' (plural). It is not [specifically] referring to the AoD event.

In chapter 8, a reference is made to the AoD event from a historical perspective.

The [real actual] event occurred in 167 B.C.

It only happened once.

It only needed to happen once.

It is fulfilled.

There is no future AoD event.

The Olivet Discourse AoD reference is not a prophecy about a future AoD 'event' like most people believe.

Well......we can safely say that the Olivet discourse certainly is not a reference to a past event.

For someone to say that the AoD isn't a future event is........nonsensical and absurd.
Luke 21:24 cannot be equivocated to fit a preterist regime. In fact the whole chapter destroys preterism. As does the entire rest of the Bible.

 

[GaryA]

Dan 9:27......."cause the sacrifice and oblation to cease" is the same event the 2Thes 2:4 and Matt 24:15, Mk 13:14. And Matthew 24:15 & Mk 13:14 are a direct reference to Dan 9:27. So we can deduce that they are all one and the same thing.

The Olivet Discourse does not make a direct reference to Daniel 9:27; rather, the reference is to Daniel 11:31.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Except that very-precious-few understand this - most believe it is a prophecy about a future AoD 'event'.

Yeah, 70 AD was about four decades ahead of the time when Jesus delivered this Olivet Discourse, was it not?

See, I do understand, because unlike Matthew and Mark, in Luke 21:20 it was identified as a historic event where Jerusalem was "surrounded by armies", and in Luke 21:24, its citizens were slaughtered and led into captivity. That can't be anything else but the sacking of Jerusalem in 70 AD.

However, His return in Matt 24:29-31 is yet to be fulfilled. "This generation" was not referring to the current generation of Jews at that time, but His generation in Matt. 1. Matthew pointed out in that genealogy that there were 42 generations from Abraham, and Christ was the 42th. That's the Church, the Body of Christ, of which Christ is the head.

I discussed the Olivet Discourse in detail in this post below, check it out if you're interested.

https://communities.win/c/Christianity/p/141YWhrP7R/the-olivet-discourse--a-prophecy/c