what are your thoughts of Apostle Kathryn Krick

[presidente]

@CS1

I wasn't talking about this woman's excorcisms. I was talking about my experiences.

Sometimes I can sense a demonic presence, or sense something about someone. Sometimes I don't sense it. Sometimes I have just heard it is God speaking, and other times I hear a prophecy and it sounds Biblical and encouraging and I do not have that sense. So discernment from the perspective of perceiving something spiritual is not always 100% for me. And sometimes there is that praying for wisdom, praying about things, waiting, etc.

When you are in the moment doing some ministry, you have to go with what the Lord has given you and with your past experience-- with studying and memorizing scripture, prayer-- everything that you have at that moment and whatever God is giving you on the spot. If something doesn't fit your preconceived ideas you can call it fake or else call the person unsaved. If there were levitation or something weird and the person 10 demonic voices, then you probably would not say it is fake. That sort of thing is probably very rare if it ever happens at all. You might perceive the demonic presence, or not, depending on your gifts and what 'manifestation of the Spirit' you are getting yourself from whatever the Lord is providing.

I don't hang a sign up asking for deliverance sessions. I've been in a few scenarios, a couple of times a couple of different pastors on different occasions in different places asked me to come do something--- bam I'm in the situation, or I was just there, or I took someone to meet with some other people to help with the issue. But I have seen enough for the issues I raised to be genuine concerns.

I realized the 'Christian cannot be demonized' arguments were not airtight, especially if you are using 'possessed.' I couldn't make a totally airtight case in the other way, but I think there are hints if there are problems in the believer's life.

I don't want to criticize you for not doing deliverance sessions, but a lot of people who have do not agree with your dogmatic stance. I was just an observer of this stuff once when I was young and was told about the girl's background and sort of decided I'd reserve judgment or let go of my dogmatic stance.

 

[Edify]

Ok thank you for your input did you hear anything that was said that was not clearly taught in the word of God that was said? IF you did please tell me what you have heard, thank you.

It's clearly taught that we are to do these "in the name of Jesus". She did not.

Mark 16: Afterward he appeared to the eleven themselves as they were reclining at table, and he rebuked them for their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they had not believed those who saw him after he had risen. 15And he said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation. 16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17And these signs will accompany those who believe: in my name they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18they will pick up serpents with their hands; and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will recover.”

 

[Edify]

Sorry about answering so late. It seems I showed up a day late & a dollar short.

 

[CS1]

@CS1

I wasn't talking about this woman's excorcisms. I was talking about my experiences.

Sometimes I can sense a demonic presence, or sense something about someone. Sometimes I don't sense it. Sometimes I have just heard it is God speaking, and other times I hear a prophecy and it sounds Biblical and encouraging and I do not have that sense. So discernment from the perspective of perceiving something spiritual is not always 100% for me. And sometimes there is that praying for wisdom, praying about things, waiting, etc.

When you are in the moment doing some ministry, you have to go with what the Lord has given you and with your past experience-- with studying and memorizing scripture, prayer-- everything that you have at that moment and whatever God is giving you on the spot. If something doesn't fit your preconceived ideas you can call it fake or else call the person unsaved. If there were levitation or something weird and the person 10 demonic voices, then you probably would not say it is fake. That sort of thing is probably very rare if it ever happens at all. You might perceive the demonic presence, or not, depending on your gifts and what 'manifestation of the Spirit' you are getting yourself from whatever the Lord is providing.

I don't hang a sign up asking for deliverance sessions. I've been in a few scenarios, a couple of times a couple of different pastors on different occasions in different places asked me to come do something--- bam I'm in the situation, or I was just there, or I took someone to meet with some other people to help with the issue. But I have seen enough for the issues I raised to be genuine concerns.

I realized the 'Christian cannot be demonized' arguments were not airtight, especially if you are using 'possessed.' I couldn't make a totally airtight case in the other way, but I think there are hints if there are problems in the believer's life.

I don't want to criticize you for not doing deliverance sessions, but a lot of people who have do not agree with your dogmatic stance. I was just an observer of this stuff once when I was young and was told about the girl's background and sort of decided I'd reserve judgment or let go of my dogmatic stance.

again I am only going by what you have provided and I answered as such.

"Sometimes I can sense a demonic presence, or sense something about someone. Sometimes I don't sense it. Sometimes I have just heard it is God speaking, and other times I hear a prophecy and it sounds Biblical and encouraging and I do not have that sense. So discernment from the perspective of perceiving something spiritual is not always 100% for me. And sometimes there is that praying for wisdom, praying about things, waiting, etc. "

again you say something that is problematic.


as a Pentacostel minister used in the gifts of the Holy Spirit, I am going to tell you this.

IT MUST BE BIBLICAL, not sound biblical. When in doubt refer to the prayer and the word of God. The Holy Spirit knows we are to wait on HIM for the unction of the Holy Spirit prior to saying something, praying for the person as WE feel or perceive.

Paul knew the women with a demon or spirit of divination how many days before he cast it out? Paul waited on the Holy Spirit.

The problem with many is we want o help along what only God can do.

That is why we have issues. MIc in the ears and staged events to prom false moves of God to Flee the flock! GOD doesn't need our Help he needs our obedience.

 

[Edify]

Jesus said you will know them by their fruits. Those fruits can usually be seen at the beginning of their show, with the announcer saying, "Let's welcome Apostle so-and-so". The scribes & pharisees always made a big show about everything they did. If these do the same things, they are showing the same fruits, such as hypocracy, self-righteousness, self indulgence, pride, arrogance, etc.,etc.
What many show today as "the anointing" is nothing more than arrogance.

https://ideapod.com/arrogant-personality-traits/
Read this, pray for open eyes & then watch your favorite preacher. Some will be shaken to the core.

 

[presidente]

IT MUST BE BIBLICAL, not sound biblical. When in doubt refer to the prayer and the word of God. The Holy Spirit knows we are to wait on HIM for the unction of the Holy Spirit prior to saying something, praying for the person as WE feel or perceive.

Theoretically, someone could quote scripture at you and pretend to be prophesying. I'm sure we've heard jokes about stringing the verses together, "Now Judas went and hanged himself" and "Go thou and no likewise." I've heard that used as a reason not to randomly point at verses to get some kind of personal message. But if it were strung together as a purported prophecy... it's from the Bible, but not used correctly.

If someone prophesies to another that he is to go to Russia and preach the Gospel, the idea of preaching the Gospel is Biblical. It would require some discernment to determine if that is a message from God. If the individual receiving it happened to have already had some direction from God, evaluating the prophecy might be rather easy. But how would we know without some revelatory spiritual insight or communal judging or 'weighing carefully' of the word together? This is the kind of thing I mean by 'sounds Biblical.' Someone could theoretically also quote scripture to you--- biblical right-- but be feeding to you their opinion about how you should feel or what you should do. So perceiving the Spirit speak is important for a church, collectively, to do.

That is an interesting point about Paul, but it is also possible that it was his first time. She was saying good-sounding words, but they were getting endorsement (or mocking perhaps) from a diviner from the wrong spirit.

 

[SophieT]

the person who goes running off in response to a so called personal prophecy is a fool

personal prophecy is one of the most abused features of the spiritual gifts and has been for years

yr entire post refers to the kind of quackery going on in many places and nothing about God is that vague or feely meely

 

[SophieT]

That is an interesting point about Paul, but it is also possible that it was his first time. She was saying good-sounding words, but they were getting endorsement (or mocking perhaps) from a diviner from the wrong spirit.

oh please

so what you are really saying, is that the Holy Spirit was not sure

I don't think you understand how things work when someone has the gift of discernment or waits before God to know what to do

about the best I can come up with regarding the constant wishy washiness of your posts is

prune juice. might help

 

[CS1]

Theoretically, someone could quote scripture at you and pretend to be prophesying. I'm sure we've heard jokes about stringing the verses together, "Now Judas went and hanged himself" and "Go thou and no likewise." I've heard that used as a reason not to randomly point at verses to get some kind of personal message. But if it were strung together as a purported prophecy... it's from the Bible, but not used correctly.

If someone prophesies to another that he is to go to Russia and preach the Gospel, the idea of preaching the Gospel is Biblical. It would require some discernment to determine if that is a message from God. If the individual receiving it happened to have already had some direction from God, evaluating the prophecy might be rather easy. But how would we know without some revelatory spiritual insight or communal judging or 'weighing carefully' of the word together? This is the kind of thing I mean by 'sounds Biblical.' Someone could theoretically also quote scripture to you--- biblical right-- but be feeding to you their opinion about how you should feel or what you should do. So perceiving the Spirit speak is important for a church, collectively, to do.

That is an interesting point about Paul, but it is also possible that it was his first time. She was saying good-sounding words, but they were getting endorsement (or mocking perhaps) from a diviner from the wrong spirit.

I do not think you know what 1cor chapter 12 through 14 contexts is of Prophesying.

many people prophesied in the word of God things that were from man and not the Spirit of Truth. The Book of Jeremiah for one.

it is not theoretically can quote scripture and pretend to be prophesying, it is heretical to prophesy and not have four things that must happen even five to verify the speaking is true.

1. It must line of with the word of God
2. it must bring Glory to God
3. it must edify, comfort, or build-up
4. it is to be judged by the word of God.
5. Must be confirmation


IF one is knowing this, which is part of Discernment and maturity in using the gift of Prophesying; which contextually in 1cor chapter 12 through 14 is Speaking under the inspiration or preaching the word of God. Prophesying in this text is not in the office of a Prophet.

First off, the speaking or prophesying MUST be confirmation to the person to who is being prophesied to. why?


Because God primarily speaks to each one of us as He desires to do from the Word of God. And in our personal time in prayer.

IF they are so doing.

Jesus said the Holy Spirit will teach you John 14 & 15 chapters. . So many of my Pentecostal brothers and sisters failed to know this.
AS an example:
So if a person were to prophecy to me " God is calling you to China" , God would have told me first and I would have known or believed God is calling me somewhere. YET that place may not be China, so I still must ask the Lord to confirm to me the place to go. I know God has told me, I am going somewhere but the location is still not known. therefore I must test and judge the word of The person. And seek God.

 

[Unw0rthyS3rvant]

I am happy to be a servant.

The gifts and operations of the Holy Ghost are a heavy burden, for these are within the "church".

Some ppl seek their OWN grandeur instead of gloryfiying the Father.. "A vs a."

We All are sent by the great commission of Jesus to just GO..........
I think we lose sight of that!

 

[CS1]

I am happy to be a servant.

The gifts and operations of the Holy Ghost are a heavy burden, for these are within the "church".

Some ppl seek their OWN grandeur instead of gloryfiying the Father.. "A vs a."

We All are sent by the great commission of Jesus to just GO..........
I think we lose sight of that!

I agree

 

[presidente]

1. It must line of with the word of God
2. it must bring Glory to God
3. it must edify, comfort, or build-up
4. it is to be judged by the word of God.
5. Must be confirmation


IF one is knowing this, which is part of Discernment and maturity in using the gift of Prophesying; which contextually in 1cor chapter 12 through 14 is Speaking under the inspiration or preaching the word of God. Prophesying in this text is not in the office of a Prophet.

First off, the speaking or prophesying MUST be confirmation to the person to who is being prophesied to. why?

Because God primarily speaks to each one of us as He desires to do from the Word of God. And in our personal time in prayer.

I've heard that 'it must be confirmation' idea, in the A/G and elsewhere. The problem is....where does the Bible teach that? And what about the prophecies that weren't confirmation? Did Saul have any clue that he had been chosen to be ruler? God told Samuel that about him that he was to be anointed as captain over the Lord's people. I don't see how anyone can read the passage and think this was all confirmation. When Ahijah the Shilonite prophesied over Jeroboam, is there any indication that he had any clue he was going to be king prior to that? Is there any clue that Jehu had any idea before the prophet came to him?

Some people say, "That's Old Testament." But think about Paul's co-workers. Paul has a vision of the night, and they cross the sea all and cross all the way to Macedonia based on another man's visions. It was against the law for Peter to go into a Gentiles home (maybe from the perspective of Sanhedrin decisions; the 18 decisions of the Shammai controlled Pharisee contingent about Gentiles are lost to history.) Why would six brethren go with Peter? He was a church leader for one thing. But he just might have told them about his vision. Those of the circumcision who did not like what Peter had done accepted it after he told about his revelation and what happened. If it was all confirmation, why did they fuss about it? Also, Zecharias prophesied about John's ministry before he was born.

I know K.H. wrote that 'We are supposed to be led by the Spirit, not by prophets.' He tried to squeeze this out of Romans 8:14, "For as many as are led by he Spirit of God are the sons of God." But, like one preacher said, Paul is talking about moral leading. In this chapter, Paul was talking about mortifying the deed of the body by the Spirit. In Galatians there is a similar context where he mentions being led of the Spirit.

That K.H. quote also does not make sense because I Corinthians 12 teaches us that prophecies are given by the Spirit. A genuine prophecy is from the Spirit. Peter described prophesying (in the context of prophets of old) as 'holy men of old spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost."

Experientially, it does seem like possibly most prophecies that are directional in nature have an element of 'confirmation' to them-- from my perspective on the receiving end. But I would not limit God to this if He had not limited Himself. That's the missing component-- the lack of Biblical evidence that prophecies must be confirmation. And the big problem are the examples that argue against it.

Also, those confirmation prophecies, the really detailed personal prophecies where someone prophesies stuff about your life that they could not naturally know, some of them have a little bit of new stuff you might not have thought of-- something else other than the 'confirmation' part.

Also, in real life, the confirmation thing doesn't work out.

If by 'confirmation' you mean it is bearing witness with you right then, right there, discernment of spirits is a gift the Spirit distributes as He wills. Not everyone is always operating in it all the time. If God wants you to hear Him, He can speak to you, but He chooses when and how. And some people may just ignore or be dull of hearing, too.

The problem with rejecting prophecies that aren't confirmation is that the scripture teaches 'Despise not prophesyings.' If someone has a list of rules of when prophecies can be true or false, and they have this man-made confirmation rule that evolved-- probably-- in reaction to false prophecies or the potential danger of them-- then they can despise a genuine prophecy. If God has not said He won't do this or that, we should not try to put our rules on Him.

What I can see in scripture are principles and promises like what we see in Proverbs 3 about God directing your path if you trust in him with all your heart, lean not to your own understanding, and in all your ways acknowledge him. I also see the guarantee in James about receiving wisdom if one prays in faith for it without doubting.

If you reject a true prophecy, you are responsible before God for that. If you accept a false prophecy, you are responsible before God for that. No one should totally give up decision-making responsibility for a domain where God has given them decision-making responsibility. That's a better way of looking at it than parroting made-up rules about what makes prophecies genuine

IF they are so doing.

Jesus said the Holy Spirit will teach you John 14 & 15 chapters. . So many of my Pentecostal brothers and sisters failed to know this.
AS an example:
So if a person were to prophecy to me " God is calling you to China" , God would have told me first and I would have known or believed God is calling me somewhere. YET that place may not be China, so I still must ask the Lord to confirm to me the place to go. I know God has told me, I am going somewhere but the location is still not known. therefore I must test and judge the word of The person. And seek God.

This is an area I have studied quite a bit, and spent a lot of time evaluating some of the teachings floating around, which is why I write a bit forcefully about. I see a lot of teachings about prophecy that aren't anchored in the word of God, including this 'confirmation' teaching, teachings that false prophecy is no big deal, and teachings that prophesying is just preaching, etc.

Why don't you share to me where in scripture you get this idea that the Holy Spirit is limited to only give prophecies that are confirmation? And why do you draw the lines where you do, that you think God must be calling you to go somewhere, but not the specific place, and the specific location doesn't have to be 'confirmation'?

 

[presidente]

the person who goes running off in response to a so called personal prophecy is a fool

personal prophecy is one of the most abused features of the spiritual gifts and has been for years

yr entire post refers to the kind of quackery going on in many places and nothing about God is that vague or feely meely

Usually in my experience, personally prophecies that are 'directional' in nature do have some confirmation. God gives us enough to be able to make a wise choice about decisions whether we seek him in faith.

Personal prophecies could be fake or abused. I can think of a supposed 'word' or revelation or something along those lines that I believed was false and I even told the guy not to say it before he did. Another guy was about to do the same thing. We didn't even know what it was going to be, but it turned out to be worse than we probably could have guessed. But overall, my experience with personal prophecies, the vast majority have been positive.

Many times, I have witnessed personal prophecies that go into some detail the person giving it could not naturally know. That happens quite a bit.

I would have liked to have received a personal prophecy as a confirmation when I was decided to marry my wife. I thought the Lord was speaking to me about this, and on one occasion, a story about her life, which she later told me about. But I still would have liked confirmation. But I ended up praying about it, making a decision about it in prayer and telling the Lord my decision to propose, and to let me know or stop me if it wasn't His will. Then that little bit of doubt I had about whether I should do this was gone and settled.

After all that, when I'd set up my plan to propose, someone did call us up at a meeting and prophesy about us going to many places together and ministering to many people. It implied we would be together for a long time. It did not say 'married', but I wasn't planning on travelling all over the place with a single woman, either. That was a confirmation.

I also have had people prophesy over me or share a word of knowledge about my main ministry gift. I don't even know how many times. I'd guess between 10 and 20 if not more-- even people who do not know me who just met me and we ended up praying together or they just got a word for me to encourage me.

The Bible says 'despise not prophesyings' and plenty of prophecies in the Bible fall into the category of 'personal prophecies' where the prophecy is about one person. Paul even got at least one, though I suspect when the Spirit witnessed from city to city of the affliction that awaited him, he might have been talking about other scenarios like the one he had just experienced with Agabus. I've experienced that-- someone prophesies something about me in one place, then someone else prophesies that idea elsewhere.

 

[presidente]

oh please

so what you are really saying, is that the Holy Spirit was not sure

Don't lie about me or put words in my mouth. I said no such thing. What a vile accusation. I wrote,

I wrote,

That is an interesting point about Paul, but it is also possible that it was his first time. She was saying good-sounding words, but they were getting endorsement (or mocking perhaps) from a diviner from the wrong spirit.

Paul was a human being, not the Holy Spirit. We do not know if he waited to cast out the spirit because he was directed to wait, waited until he was specifically directed to do so, or took time to figure out what to do, or something else. It doesn't say. I get the impression that Jesus cast out a lot of Spirits 'on the spot' from the Gospels. I don't see him waiting for days. I suspect the Twelve apostles did the same.

I don't think you understand how things work when someone has the gift of discernment or waits before God to know what to do

I think I do. But I do not always get specific instructions for everything myself. Sometimes one has to pray for wisdom considering what the Bible teaches, and step out in faith.

about the best I can come up with regarding the constant wishy washiness of your posts is

prune juice. might help

Shaka, when the walls fell.

I do not see the connection between what you are saying and the dietary advice. But my personal experiences may be different from yours because I have very limited experience with that beverage.

 

[CS1]

I've heard that 'it must be confirmation' idea, in the A/G and elsewhere. The problem is....where does the Bible teach that? And what about the prophecies that weren't confirmation? Did Saul have any clue that he had been chosen to be ruler? God told Samuel that about him that he was to be anointed as captain over the Lord's people. I don't see how anyone can read the passage and think this was all confirmation. When Ahijah the Shilonite prophesied over Jeroboam, is there any indication that he had any clue he was going to be king prior to that? Is there any clue that Jehu had any idea before the prophet came to him?

Some people say, "That's Old Testament." But think about Paul's co-workers. Paul has a vision of the night, and they cross the sea all and cross all the way to Macedonia based on another man's visions. It was against the law for Peter to go into a Gentiles home (maybe from the perspective of Sanhedrin decisions; the 18 decisions of the Shammai controlled Pharisee contingent about Gentiles are lost to history.) Why would six brethren go with Peter? He was a church leader for one thing. But he just might have told them about his vision. Those of the circumcision who did not like what Peter had done accepted it after he told about his revelation and what happened. If it was all confirmation, why did they fuss about it? Also, Zecharias prophesied about John's ministry before he was born.

I know K.H. wrote that 'We are supposed to be led by the Spirit, not by prophets.' He tried to squeeze this out of Romans 8:14, "For as many as are led by he Spirit of God are the sons of God." But, like one preacher said, Paul is talking about moral leading. In this chapter, Paul was talking about mortifying the deed of the body by the Spirit. In Galatians there is a similar context where he mentions being led of the Spirit.

That K.H. quote also does not make sense because I Corinthians 12 teaches us that prophecies are given by the Spirit. A genuine prophecy is from the Spirit. Peter described prophesying (in the context of prophets of old) as 'holy men of old spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost."

Experientially, it does seem like possibly most prophecies that are directional in nature have an element of 'confirmation' to them-- from my perspective on the receiving end. But I would not limit God to this if He had not limited Himself. That's the missing component-- the lack of Biblical evidence that prophecies must be confirmation. And the big problem are the examples that argue against it.

Also, those confirmation prophecies, the really detailed personal prophecies where someone prophesies stuff about your life that they could not naturally know, some of them have a little bit of new stuff you might not have thought of-- something else other than the 'confirmation' part.

Also, in real life, the confirmation thing doesn't work out.

If by 'confirmation' you mean it is bearing witness with you right then, right there, discernment of spirits is a gift the Spirit distributes as He wills. Not everyone is always operating in it all the time. If God wants you to hear Him, He can speak to you, but He chooses when and how. And some people may just ignore or be dull of hearing, too.

The problem with rejecting prophecies that aren't confirmation is that the scripture teaches 'Despise not prophesyings.' If someone has a list of rules of when prophecies can be true or false, and they have this man-made confirmation rule that evolved-- probably-- in reaction to false prophecies or the potential danger of them-- then they can despise a genuine prophecy. If God has not said He won't do this or that, we should not try to put our rules on Him.

What I can see in scripture are principles and promises like what we see in Proverbs 3 about God directing your path if you trust in him with all your heart, lean not to your own understanding, and in all your ways acknowledge him. I also see the guarantee in James about receiving wisdom if one prays in faith for it without doubting.

If you reject a true prophecy, you are responsible before God for that. If you accept a false prophecy, you are responsible before God for that. No one should totally give up decision-making responsibility for a domain where God has given them decision-making responsibility. That's a better way of looking at it than parroting made-up rules about what makes prophecies genuine




This is an area I have studied quite a bit, and spent a lot of time evaluating some of the teachings floating around, which is why I write a bit forcefully about. I see a lot of teachings about prophecy that aren't anchored in the word of God, including this 'confirmation' teaching, teachings that false prophecy is no big deal, and teachings that prophesying is just preaching, etc.

Why don't you share to me where in scripture you get this idea that the Holy Spirit is limited to only give prophecies that are confirmation? And why do you draw the lines where you do, that you think God must be calling you to go somewhere, but not the specific place, and the specific location doesn't have to be 'confirmation'?

two question I will answer:

1. I've heard that 'it must be confirmation' idea, in the A/G and elsewhere. The problem is....where does the Bible teach that? And
2. what about the prophecies that weren't confirmation?


answer to 1.

“Man does not live by bread alone, but man lives by every word that comes from the mouth of the LORD.” DEUTERONOMY 8:3

John 10:27-28"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand."

Hebrew 4:12 For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

1cor 14:32-33 "And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets."33For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.

“Test all things; hold fast what is good.” (1 Thessalonians 5:21)
“Beloved, do not believe every spirit, BUT TEST THE SPIRITS, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God 1 John 4:1-4

Roman 8:16 The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,

1cor 2:10 These things God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God.

1 John 1:6 If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.

John 14: 26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.


The word of God teaches us, the Word of God and the Holy Spirit speak to us from the word of God by and through faith. We have confirmation from knowing God's voice in his word and through the Holy Spirit. This is seen many times in both the Old and New Testaments. Jesus said HE would not leave us orphans and the Holy Spirit also known as The Comforter/ Paraclete would be in US and With us forever.
WE know HIM
WE Hear Him
We Follow Him
WE are to test the word = get confirmation of what? Truth.
WE are led into all truth

The idea the Bible doesn't say or suggest or have teaching on the term "Confirmation" is not true.
Confirmation = Testmony , evidence , proof,

Phil 1:7
Even as it is meet for me to think this of you all, because I have you in my heart; inasmuch as both in my bonds, and in the defence and confirmation of the gospel, ye all are partakers of my grace.





Answer to 2.
The non-answered prophecies should be known they were not prophesying, to begin with, IF they did not come true.

 

[presidente]

two question I will answer:

1. I've heard that 'it must be confirmation' idea, in the A/G and elsewhere. The problem is....where does the Bible teach that? And
2. what about the prophecies that weren't confirmation?

I want to clarify my own words about the A/G. I don't think the A/G has a hard stance on prophecy having to be confirmation. I think there might be a position paper that lightly suggests it might be or tend to be. I have heard and read an opinion along these lines-- "if you get a prophecy about your calling or future-- God will speak to you about that first." or that God will usually speak to you about that first.

The idea here is that 'confirmation' means God already showed you or at least gave you some kind of nudge or inclination in the direction of the prophecy--or told you specifically. I suspect people's criteria changes from person to person since there isn't really a scripture that teaches this.

There is also the, "That bears witness with my spirit" phrase used among some of the Charismatics. Some people might include that as 'confirmation.'

The worst extreme on this I think I heard is, "If it's not confirmation, it's junk." That's way too extreme. I was thinking-- what about all those prophecies in the Bible.

There are a lot of people who do not believe God operates through prophecy or are unfamiliar with it. They might hear a prophecy in church and not be able to perceive that God is speaking through it. Are all of these people unsaved, without the Holy Spirit?

answer to 1.

“Man does not live by bread alone, but man lives by every word that comes from the mouth of the LORD.” DEUTERONOMY 8:3

John 10:27-28"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand."

Hebrew 4:12 For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

1cor 14:32-33 "And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets."33For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.

“Test all things; hold fast what is good.” (1 Thessalonians 5:21)
“Beloved, do not believe every spirit, BUT TEST THE SPIRITS, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God 1 John 4:1-4

Roman 8:16 The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,

1cor 2:10 These things God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God.

1 John 1:6 If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.

John 14: 26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.

How do you think any of these verses teach that a prophecy must be 'confirmation'. In your past post, the scenario was someone knew he was supposed to be going somewhere, and the prophecy said to go to China--- which I think was hypothetical. So that was a 'confirmation' of something you'd been told, in part. The China part was new. I suspect you mean the 'bears witness with my spirit' idea as also confirmation.

Romans 8:16 is about being children of God. I Corinthians 2:10 is about things that God has prepared for them that love Him. I think more along the lines of glorification and eschatology. But if it applies to prophecies, there is no promise there that every individual gets instant discernment about a prophecy without having to pray. If 'let the other judge' is done in church in a way where the church or the prophets say something about the prophecy, that can help. Everyone judging silently doesn't help individuals who do not hear anything about the prophecy's validity, IMO. After hearing Agabus prophecy, the saints in Antioch decided to send help to the poor in Jerusalem.

The idea the Bible doesn't say or suggest or have teaching on the term "Confirmation" is not true.
Confirmation = Testmony , evidence , proof,

I've heard 'confirmation' used more narrowly. Do you think someone who has doubts about prophecies or knows nothing about it who has professed faith in Christ, etc. is unsaved if he can't tell if it's genuine/

 

[CS1]

I want to clarify my own words about the A/G. I don't think the A/G has a hard stance on prophecy having to be confirmation. I think there might be a position paper that lightly suggests it might be or tend to be. I have heard and read an opinion along these lines-- "if you get a prophecy about your calling or future-- God will speak to you about that first." or that God will usually speak to you about that first.

The idea here is that 'confirmation' means God already showed you or at least gave you some kind of nudge or inclination in the direction of the prophecy--or told you specifically. I suspect people's criteria changes from person to person since there isn't really a scripture that teaches this.

There is also the, "That bears witness with my spirit" phrase used among some of the Charismatics. Some people might include that as 'confirmation.'

The worst extreme on this I think I heard is, "If it's not confirmation, it's junk." That's way too extreme. I was thinking-- what about all those prophecies in the Bible.

There are a lot of people who do not believe God operates through prophecy or are unfamiliar with it. They might hear a prophecy in church and not be able to perceive that God is speaking through it. Are all of these people unsaved, without the Holy Spirit?



How do you think any of these verses teach that a prophecy must be 'confirmation'. In your past post, the scenario was someone knew he was supposed to be going somewhere, and the prophecy said to go to China--- which I think was hypothetical. So that was a 'confirmation' of something you'd been told, in part. The China part was new. I suspect you mean the 'bears witness with my spirit' idea as also confirmation.

Romans 8:16 is about being children of God. I Corinthians 2:10 is about things that God has prepared for them that love Him. I think more along the lines of glorification and eschatology. But if it applies to prophecies, there is no promise there that every individual gets instant discernment about a prophecy without having to pray. If 'let the other judge' is done in church in a way where the church or the prophets say something about the prophecy, that can help. Everyone judging silently doesn't help individuals who do not hear anything about the prophecy's validity, IMO. After hearing Agabus prophecy, the saints in Antioch decided to send help to the poor in Jerusalem.



I've heard 'confirmation' used more narrowly. Do you think someone who has doubts about prophecies or knows nothing about it who has professed faith in Christ, etc. is unsaved if he can't tell if it's genuine/

it is not a HARD stance on prophecy having to be confirmed, it is necessary. Why even listen to the prophesying or what is being said if we don't seek to have a testimony or proof of what is being said? First, the Assemblies of God do rule by positional papers nor does it need to establish a rule when things are seen as normative from observation of the scripture. It was not the aog who taught me this.

 

[SophieT]

Don't lie about me or put words in my mouth. I said no such thing. What a vile accusation. I wrote,

oh calm down

I didn't lie about you

I do not know why you are so upset when you CONSTANTLY either put words in other people's mouths or just downright create misleading posts about what they said and since you mentioned lying...well, that too

you're welcome

 

[SophieT]

Usually in my experience, personally prophecies that are 'directional' in nature do have some confirmation. God gives us enough to be able to make a wise choice about decisions whether we seek him in faith.

Personal prophecies could be fake or abused. I can think of a supposed 'word' or revelation or something along those lines that I believed was false and I even told the guy not to say it before he did. Another guy was about to do the same thing. We didn't even know what it was going to be, but it turned out to be worse than we probably could have guessed. But overall, my experience with personal prophecies, the vast majority have been positive.

Many times, I have witnessed personal prophecies that go into some detail the person giving it could not naturally know. That happens quite a bit.

I would have liked to have received a personal prophecy as a confirmation when I was decided to marry my wife. I thought the Lord was speaking to me about this, and on one occasion, a story about her life, which she later told me about. But I still would have liked confirmation. But I ended up praying about it, making a decision about it in prayer and telling the Lord my decision to propose, and to let me know or stop me if it wasn't His will. Then that little bit of doubt I had about whether I should do this was gone and settled.

After all that, when I'd set up my plan to propose, someone did call us up at a meeting and prophesy about us going to many places together and ministering to many people. It implied we would be together for a long time. It did not say 'married', but I wasn't planning on travelling all over the place with a single woman, either. That was a confirmation.

I also have had people prophesy over me or share a word of knowledge about my main ministry gift. I don't even know how many times. I'd guess between 10 and 20 if not more-- even people who do not know me who just met me and we ended up praying together or they just got a word for me to encourage me.

The Bible says 'despise not prophesyings' and plenty of prophecies in the Bible fall into the category of 'personal prophecies' where the prophecy is about one person. Paul even got at least one, though I suspect when the Spirit witnessed from city to city of the affliction that awaited him, he might have been talking about other scenarios like the one he had just experienced with Agabus. I've experienced that-- someone prophesies something about me in one place, then someone else prophesies that idea elsewhere.

you are welcome to stand in a line of folks waiting to 'hear a word from the Lord' but I will refrain and I do not care who partakes of that 'Christian' fortune telling

there is an example of Paul receiving a prophecy and it seems some have made a doctrine out of it

I have had many confirm whatever gifts the Holy Spirit has given to me but I knew about them before hand and I do not allow anyone to push me one way or another...Moses has served his purpose and boy do I know how that will be received but it is not my problem

Paul was single minded in his purpose and the prophecy, though true, did not deter him

I may know something will happen, but that does not mean I alter my life because it, whatever it is, will happen

again, this post is all about you. you do not make doctrine true.

it seems you cannot post unless referring to your own whatever and while that may help you, this is a forum and your experience is subjective. yes it is

I do not despise what the Bible says...but I heartily despise much of the goings on the church entertains itself with

 

[CS1]

it is not a HARD stance on prophecy having to be confirmed, it is necessary. Why even listen to the prophesying or what is being said if we don't seek to have a testimony or proof of what is being said? First, the Assemblies of God do not rule by positional papers nor does it need to establish a rule when things are seen as normative from observation of the scripture. It was not the aog who taught me this.

I had to correct this response. my time expired before I could edit.