Pondering Revival of the saints.

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
S

SophieT

Guest
I'm writing in response with no ill feelings or desired outcome of anything I might say here so ignore me, deplore me, report me or put an x, but you don't know me and my heart is before God and I do not lie or exaggerate, and really do not think you mean ill rehbein, but I think you are mistaken.

I will note this forum has changed since I first started posting here back in 2016 (I think it was) and not for the better and neither the owner nor the mods are to blame. I like this forum, actually, because there is more liberty here to express yourself and you don't have a mod breathing down your neck waiting for something to ban you about. However, some folks do abuse that and take authority that is not given them and treat other posters here as though they were God's gift to the planet.

anyway...opinions. everybody has them.


I really hesitate to write the following, having just gone through a ridiculous exercise in a deliberate attempt to turn my words into lies and my person into a liar who accuses others of misdeeds which are better understood to be me own. in other words, some gaslighting individual here in the forum took it upon himself to publicly address me as though I were the worst thing since Hitler and he claimed I needed to repent and he feared for my salvation and more and most of all, MOST OF ALL

he wanted me to publicly apologize, to him, for lying about him and in truth before God (with everything already before Him to be sure) these were things that really he had done to myself and others but, with a 6th sense that I am well aware of, he honed in on me, despite others saying the same to him as I had.

it was the apology he longed for and desired above all else that sticks out like that proverbial sore thumb we have all experienced at one time or another, that betrays the actual motive and mechanism that kicked in his hatred of me...because it is hatred...but he cannot help himself

it is useless to defend yourself in a case like that so I put him on ignore and told him I was doing so

and I prayed because this is not unusual for me to be accused of things I did not do or be told I said things I did not say

So, I guess we just throw away our Bibles because the Scriptures within are not Truth?
why would you write this? this is hurtful and I do not mean to the op. I mean it in the sense that it redirects what is being said and indicates either a misunderstanding of the material, a dislike of the material or fear in what is being said

as it is, you had an op a couple of weeks or so back in which every person responding totally misunderstood what you were saying and finally you clarified our understanding. you were not clear on what you said and we all took your words to mean something different than what you intended

I do not write about my experiences...very few anyway...and there is good reason for that. I was introduced to evil in a way most Christians would not suspect the devil can operate . this evil came in the form of an evangelist who went about supposedly conducting 'revivals' in churches throughout the US . Suffice it to say, he left chaos, pain and suffering and actual destroyed lives behind him as he went on to the next target. I say target meaning the devil had open doors through this person and thousands of opportunities to wreck havoc.

Believe me, do not believe me....sometimes I would like to think it did not happen but it did. Some of you might know his name but I am not going to mention it. the church body governing his comings and goings finally took away his license to preach and he became independent but was never able to regain his former 'glory' and in fact, he failed at every project he attempted and remains tucked away in some small corner of the world if he is even still alive.

Take seriously the enemy. You don't know what he can do...Paul said people in his day were not ignorant but the ignorance today is staggering and frankly horrifying to see as people are swallowed up by lies and devilish preaching wherein people are actually told that the Bible is more of a suggestion than a direction.

I know plenty about things I never thought I would know about and the longer I live and see this world go down the toilet (pardon me) with emphasis on the church, the more I suspect God heard me when I said I just wanted to know Him as He really is and not as others say He is. I cannot be a part of what others think is wonderful and I cannot agree that all these so called miracles are of God and I cannot agree that feelings guide us and so if we feel great it must be good and it must be God

I don't have any other place to write the above so I wrote it here after reading some of the posts. somehow it seems fitting

oh...and I do not see revival as the answer and I do not believe we shall have one. why would we?
 
S

SophieT

Guest
The word of God always trumps experiences.
well you wouldn't know it to talk to most people both in the forums and in real life

but that is actually a true statement

however, is it the answer to what the church is facing...believers are facing...for example, while what you say is true, have you EXPERIENCED it to be true?

or, is it a truism you have accepted and so post?

I am just being my ornery self here and not desiring offence or argument
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,130
3,689
113
well you wouldn't know it to talk to most people both in the forums and in real life

but that is actually a true statement

however, is it the answer to what the church is facing...believers are facing...for example, while what you say is true, have you EXPERIENCED it to be true?

or, is it a truism you have accepted and so post?

I am just being my ornery self here and not desiring offence or argument
Peter, James, and John thought so. Scripture is more sure than their mountain top experience with Jesus.
 
S

SophieT

Guest
Revival is always needed as the church has a habit of falling asleep and losing it's fire, perhaps some see it as an answer to their lives or perhaps they just want to see God's hand moves in wonderful ways but one thing for sure is that as it stands the church has fallen asleep.
hey Blain ~

I dunno...correct me if I am wrong, but did Jesus ever tell us to go out and conduct revivals?

I'll make something clear though, I did not need to read the op to be soured on revivals and I have always maintained this is not coming as so many 'prophets' today keep broadcasting that a big sweeping revival is coming and yahoo

is a revival like the earth being plowed in the spring only with hearts being plowed that life comes out again?

is it having all the work being done for us?

I have no doubt some are absolutely sincere but perhaps do not understand exactly what they are asking for, believing it must be 'all good' but we are living in days that require something else as evil is given more freedom...in response to the throwing off the warnings in scripture and the ignorance so many display of the Bible

I probably ask more questions than supply answers but we have to reach our own conclusions and not be drawn in by what appears to be obvious because so many are talking about it....I certainly don't think I have all the answers anyway ;) :giggle:
 
S

SophieT

Guest
Peter, James, and John thought so. Scripture is more sure than their mountain top experience with Jesus.
well why would you believe them anyway?

what is it about what they write that assure you they are telling you the truth?

and I did notice you swerved around my question

it is this if you care to answer:

have you EXPERIENCED it to be true? that is, while your words are true, what is your experience that confirms that knowledge to you?

it's not a trick question. really. it isn't
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
13,067
4,348
113
Peter, James, and John thought so. Scripture is more sure than their mountain top experience with Jesus.
Well, the word of God produces results that are Tangible, spiritual, emotional, and literal. IF the word of God is not experienced through faith then how did anyone obtain GRACE FOR SALVATION? YOU EXPERIANCED GRACE DID YOU NOT?


WE experience peace do we not? Or did Jesus lie when HE said the peace I leave with you, The peace I give to you? Is that not real peace or just words in the bible? God confirms HIS word. Without faith, the Bible is just a book if it is not lived and believed.


Are we overcoming by the Blood of the Lamb and the WORD of our Testimony? How God saved and what HE saved you from is a testimony of your personal experience.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,130
3,689
113
Well, the word of God produces results that are Tangible, spiritual, emotional, and literal. IF the word of God is not experienced through faith then how did anyone obtain GRACE FOR SALVATION? YOU EXPERIANCED GRACE DID YOU NOT?


WE experience peace do we not? Or did Jesus lie when HE said the peace I leave with you, The peace I give to you? Is that not real peace or just words in the bible? God confirms HIS word. Without faith, the Bible is just a book if it is not lived and believed.


Are we overcoming by the Blood of the Lamb and the WORD of our Testimony? How God saved and what HE saved you from is a testimony of your personal experience.
My salvation is confirmed because God's word tells me so, even when I don't "feel" saved. I don't always "feel" the Holy Spirit, but the word tells me he's always with me. I have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, although, this life can be full of unrest and turmoil.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
13,067
4,348
113
My salvation is confirmed because God's word tells me so, even when I don't "feel" saved. I don't always "feel" the Holy Spirit, but the word tells me he's always with me. I have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, although, this life can be full of unrest and turmoil.
The word of God is true but without faith IN HIS word you just read a book. You have a literal peace BECAUSE of a literal Jesus. IF you only knew Jesus as your Lord and Savior who you have peace IF you did not read it in the word of God Or would you not experience peace until you read it in the word of God? Yes on both accounts right? We do not worship the bible we worship the God of the Bible because it is HIS word.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,130
3,689
113
The word of God is true but without faith IN HIS word you just read a book. You have a literal peace BECAUSE of a literal Jesus. IF you only knew Jesus as your Lord and Savior who you have peace IF you did not read it in the word of God Or would you not experience peace until you read it in the word of God? Yes on both accounts right? We do not worship the bible we worship the God of the Bible because it is HIS word.
Agreed with you brother, do you always enjoy peace in this life? Here's the difference...the peace OF God or peace WITH God.
 
S

SophieT

Guest
EXPERIENCE

practical contact with and observation of facts or events.

for example, the devil tempted Jesus and Jesus responded with 'IT IS WRITTEN'...to the effect the devil left Him....temporarily

it is the process of living through an event....skill or knowledge obtained by actually doing something

you may have the experience of flying in a plane, but you do not have the experience of flying the plane (unless you are

you may have the effect of belief, ie...saying I am saved because I believe the Bible.

do you understand why the Holy Spirit was given? experiencing why He was given, is the practical outworking of our life in Christ

it is not head knowledge, but the 3D truth of who we are or are supposed to be. it is not words

Jesus said I am the Way, the Truth and the Life (no one can approach God without believing and accepting that)

so what is revival?

there is a song with a line in it that goes something like 'revive us again'

literal dictionary definition: an improvement in the condition or strength of something.

so if I improve my garden by taking out the weeds, turning over the soil, watering the plants and making sure they have sufficient sun for their needs it will seem I am doing a great job. but if I neglect said garden, it goes back to how it was and maybe worse

my point being that no matter how great something starts, it is the work after the start and the excitement that tells the real story whether or not something has been experienced or simply acknowledged or believed
 
S

SophieT

Guest
peace, is not the proof of anything

in many cases it is complacency

and let's pretend I didn't say that :cautious:
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,313
29,572
113
Your primary meaning sounds like the parable of the sower. The parable of the sower (seeds) of course gives an impression that when the Gospel is heard (in that instant it is the Gospel of the Kingdom) then their is an immediate effect. The effect is as described in the parable. And yet to insist on that stark meaning and apply it to the Gospel of grace (as now is) is to miss that the parables are introduced precisely because Christ had already been refused.
Paul didn't seem to think so:

So neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but only God,
Who makes things grow. He who plants and he who waters are one in
purpose, and each will be rewarded according to his own labor. For we
are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building.
 

Rhomphaeam

Active member
Dec 14, 2021
832
218
43
England
www.nblc.church
my point being that no matter how great something starts, it is the work after the start and the excitement that tells the real story whether or not something has been experienced or simply acknowledged or believed
Exactly that. The Hebridean Revival was characterised by an undoubted sovereignty of God - so much so that thousands of people came to salvation by independent and sovereign means. No organised process and no ministerial involvement. That was the reality of Lewis during 1949-52. So it stands to reason seeing that the Father does not call men, women and children to Himself through Christ in the power of the Holy Spirit by a shabby and mistaken means - it is what follows revival that chiefly characterises why the spiritual atmosphere become dark - and in that regard it is possible to see its hand of influence during the revival itself.

In this OP I was taken to task because it was said:

Your Historical accounts are leaving out the Druid influence in religion during that time, and even still today. IYour OP sounds familiar to Druid writings. That is why I asked what church group you belong to.

I have read several of your Threads, and what I find glaringly missing is:

The Holy Trinity
Jesus is fully God
The indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit
Salvation by grace through faith...........belief in Jesus as the Christ.
Spiritual enrichment and growth to become mature in Christ and the Gospel thus enabling us to be Sanctified believers
Jesus FULFILLED the Law of the 1st Covenant, rendering it waxed and passed away
Jesus established the New Law FAITH! Through the spilling of His precious blood which is the cleansing power that makes ALL WHO BELIEVE to become worthy to be called the Children of the Living God.

What I see from you are a lot of Historical muses that appear to mix Christian beliefs with worldly ideologies as if the two are one. Nothing could be further from the Truth IMO.....
One would assume that it can be understood by following the uplink in this citation what @p_rehbein was alluding to - yet he went far too far in his condemnation - even to telling me that my writings sound as Druid writings.

An astonishing claim - not least because who here can say what Druid even is - let alone how they wrote - unless we vainly imagine to know what took place in Britain over 2000 years ago? My point is that what became visible in Lewis during the revival was in character what persisted in Lewis after revival and became a truly appalling effect - so that those lively young believers full of the first flush of conversion when their love of Christ was both visible and extraordinary - were put in chains - and that effect gave that visible spirit of opposition in revival its free hand. It had nothing to do with Druids or even paganism. It was entirely a matter for those who take the name of Christ. CHRISTIANS were the responsible party for that effect and not unbelievers.

There is one Village where witchcraft has a spiritual visibility in Lewis and that is Tolastadh bho Thuath. There are many places where believers have been spiritually defrauded and spent their entire lives remembering their conversion in revival and yet never again seeing the hand of God in their lives - as a move of the Holy Spirit. There are no Druids on the Isle of Lewis and no open paganism. Yet as like every place there are opportunities to fall into madness and and ill effect borne out of unclean spirits labouring for an end of Satan.
 

Rhomphaeam

Active member
Dec 14, 2021
832
218
43
England
www.nblc.church
Paul didn't seem to think so:

So neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but only God,
Who makes things grow. He who plants and he who waters are one in
purpose, and each will be rewarded according to his own labor. For we
are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building.
Was Paul giving the interpretation of the parable of the sower - or was Christ? And did Paul speak of the parable of the sower or did Christ? Answer me that and do it plainly, transparently and with the Scripture. Don't quote Scripture that seems to you to be contradicting what I have said unless you intend to hit the mark so well that what I said is ruined.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,313
29,572
113
Was Paul giving the interpretation of the parable of the sower - or was Christ? And did Paul speak of the parable of the sower or did Christ? Answer me that and do it plainly, transparently and with the Scripture. Don't quote Scripture that seems to you to be contradicting what I have said unless you intend to hit the mark so well that what I said is ruined.
I just gave the Scripture. Do you reject what Paul said? Planting, watering, growing, do not happen simultaneously.
 

Rhomphaeam

Active member
Dec 14, 2021
832
218
43
England
www.nblc.church
I just gave the Scripture. Do you reject what Paul said? Planting, watering, growing, do not happen simultaneously.
You didn't just give the Scripture, you said Paul didn't think so - to the element of a post I made myself sometime back. Of what was Paul speaking? Was it in the same meaning as the parable of the sower? Did Christ Himself give the interpretation of the parable of the sower or not? If you intend to have me believe that your question was innocently prescribed - then make innocent claims and not directed ones. What I wrote - IS what I wrote and I explained it. Thats it. Make your own claims as you please - but don't anticipate that you can draw me into a mistaken ambition without having to walk on the edge of a ravine.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,313
29,572
113
You didn't just give the Scripture
You must be blind. This was CLEARLY part of my post:

So neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but only God,
Who makes things grow. He who plants and he who waters are one in
purpose, and each will be rewarded according to his own labor. For we
are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building.
 
S

SophieT

Guest
Exactly that. The Hebridean Revival was characterised by an undoubted sovereignty of God - so much so that thousands of people came to salvation by independent and sovereign means. No organised process and no ministerial involvement. That was the reality of Lewis during 1949-52. So it stands to reason seeing that the Father does not call men, women and children to Himself through Christ in the power of the Holy Spirit by a shabby and mistaken means - it is what follows revival that chiefly characterises why the spiritual atmosphere become dark - and in that regard it is possible to see its hand of influence during the revival itself.

In this OP I was taken to task because it was said:



One would assume that it can be understood by following the uplink in this citation what @p_rehbein was alluding to - yet he went far too far in his condemnation - even to telling me that my writings sound as Druid writings.

An astonishing claim - not least because who here can say what Druid even is - let alone how they wrote - unless we vainly imagine to know what took place in Britain over 2000 years ago? My point is that what became visible in Lewis during the revival was in character what persisted in Lewis after revival and became a truly appalling effect - so that those lively young believers full of the first flush of conversion when their love of Christ was both visible and extraordinary - were put in chains - and that effect gave that visible spirit of opposition in revival its free hand. It had nothing to do with Druids or even paganism. It was entirely a matter for those who take the name of Christ. CHRISTIANS were the responsible party for that effect and not unbelievers.

There is one Village where witchcraft has a spiritual visibility in Lewis and that is Tolastadh bho Thuath. There are many places where believers have been spiritually defrauded and spent their entire lives remembering their conversion in revival and yet never again seeing the hand of God in their lives - as a move of the Holy Spirit. There are no Druids on the Isle of Lewis and no open paganism. Yet as like every place there are opportunities to fall into madness and and ill effect borne out of unclean spirits labouring for an end of Satan.
right

so I have that book 'War on the Saints' and have read it and made notes in it. (you mentioned it somewhere I believe) Found it while searching for answers regarding my own experience of 'how could something so apparently good have such appalling and destructive
effects
' and people confused and not believing the demonic influence and so blaming human beings as the problem. From my own experience, I would say that people are almost unaware ... or have ignored ... the many warnings in the NT concerning the operation of 'seducing and teaching spirits' that operate among Christians while the Christians believe they are only giving their ears to the Holy Spirit.

When you see carnage, and you choose not to ignore it or challenge the source, you are going to come up with results that many will toss out of hand and say these things cannot happen to a 'saved' person.

No doubt because of the geographical location you dwell in, Druids are named as a source of inspiration for the manner in which you write. Since I am actually familiar with what you posted about, and have lived it, I respond differently than some who question your source of inspiration. But truthfully, this is not a topic well received because there are no fuzzy feelings attached to it...but rather battle gear and boots that fit well. I was so unmercifully ignorant of what I fell into, that a newborn baby might have a better defense in that it would cry out for help. I had nowhere to turn than the denomination in which the travesty happened and they denied all demonic access to the believer.

Yes, Christians are responsible.

An area in which I lived for about 18 years or so, in the province of Nova Scotia (I'm Canadian but married to an American and live in the US) had experienced a great 'revival' some 100 years or so before I came along, but that same area had become a nexus for witchcraft and witches and because of my sensitivity, I suffered some bad effects of some of them but prayed through and came away with more knowledge and less harm. Still, if you are a believer and actually do experience a spiritual gift or 2, people will frown at you unless you are all positive and full of blessings and smile like a cherub.

There is alot of nonsense that goes on in some congregations up there and plenty of adulterous affairs and gossip to give credence to the spirit that is actually at work in them. I'm so much fun :censored:

Anyway, I would agree that many remember a revival or a particular time when the Holy Spirit moved among them or they had a distinct 'experience' apart from their normal lives; but trying to 'work it up' results in emotions and nothing lasting. Who has given us all the impression that following Christ is like one grand experience after the other? (that sounds quite cliche)
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,313
29,572
113
You didn't just give the Scripture, you said Paul didn't think so - to the element of a post I made myself sometime back. Of what was Paul speaking? Was it in the same meaning as the parable of the sower? Did Christ Himself give the interpretation of the parable of the sower or not? If you intend to have me believe that your question was innocently prescribed - then make innocent claims and not directed ones. What I wrote - IS what I wrote and I explained it. Thats it. Make your own claims as you please - but don't anticipate that you can draw me into a mistaken ambition without having to walk on the edge of a ravine.
What a hypocrite you are, demanding innocently prescribed questions will you grill others.

My questions will be directed at you as I see fit, despite you not liking them.

The age of the post is immaterial. Gosh, you are dodging and weaving to beat the band.

Either these people heard the gospel or they did not. Which is it???

One thread you say one thing and in another something different.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
13,067
4,348
113
Agreed with you brother, do you always enjoy peace in this life? Here's the difference...the peace OF God or peace WITH God.
Agreed with you brother, do you always enjoy peace in this life? Here's the difference...the peace OF God or peace WITH God.

The peace that Jesus said, HE leaves with us is an assurance

John 14:27

Peace I leave with you, My peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.