Faith Comes By Hearing, But Obedience By Fear!

[BroTan]

Many of us hear the word of God but we will see in the scriptures that Fear bring forth Obedience. Once you really sit down and study the Bible from Genesis to Revelation you will see that God means what he says and can't lie. We in the last days where the great punishment comes at the end (Lake of Fire). But those of us who walk in the word of God knows that sometime we have to be chastening by God for correction. Paul says in Hebrew 12: My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, Nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: 6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, And scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. 7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? 8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. 9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

But theres a everlasting punishment for those who refuse to be corrected. Jesus says in Luke 12: 4, 5 And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

But Let's go back to the beginning and see how the Lord dealt with his people and get some understanding on how we should we wise and be obedient.

Let’s go into Joshua 3: 1 And Joshua rose early in the morning; and they removed from Shittim, and came to Jordan, he and all the children of Israel, and lodged there before they passed over. 7 And the LORD said unto Joshua, This day will I begin to magnify thee in the sight of all Israel, that they may know that, as I was with Moses, so I will be with thee.

8 And thou shalt command the priests that bear the ark of the covenant, saying, When ye are come to the brink of the water of Jordan, ye shall stand still in Jordan. 13 And it shall come to pass, as soon as the soles of the feet of the priests that bear the ark of the LORD, the Lord of all the earth, shall rest in the waters of Jordan, that the waters of Jordan shall be cut off from the waters that come down from above; and they shall stand upon an heap. 15 and as they that bare the ark were come unto Jordan, and the feet of the priests that bare the ark were dipped in the brim of the water, (for Jordan overfloweth all his banks all the time of harvest,) 16 that the waters which came down from above stood and rose up upon an heap very far from the city Adam, that is beside Zaretan: and those that came down toward the sea of the plain, even the salt sea, failed, and were cut off: and the people passed over right against Jericho. 17 And the priests that bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD stood firm on dry ground in the midst of Jordan, and all the Israelites passed over on dry ground, until all the people were passed clean over Jordan.

We see that God magnified Joshua so the people would have the same fear they had towards Moses.

Let’s continue in Joshua 4:1 And it came to pass, when all the people were clean passed over, that the ark of the LORD passed over, and the priests, in the presence of the people. 14 On that day the LORD magnified Joshua in the sight of all Israel; and they feared him, as they feared Moses, all the days of his life.15 And the LORD spake unto Joshua, saying, 16 Command the priests that bear the ark of the testimony, that they come up out of Jordan. 17 Joshua therefore commanded the priests, saying, Come ye up out of Jordan. 18 And it came to pass, when the priests that bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD were come up out of the midst of Jordan, and the soles of the priests' feet were lifted up unto the dry land, that the waters of Jordan returned unto their place, and flowed over all his banks, as they did before. 23 For the LORD your God dried up the waters of Jordan from before you, until ye were passed over, as the LORD your God did to the Red sea, which he dried up from before us, until we were gone over: 24 that all the people of the earth might know the hand of the LORD, that it is mighty: that ye might fear the LORD your God for ever.


God knows with out fear, people will not obey him.

 

[Magenta]

Our God is a consuming fire

 

[ResidentAlien]

Just commenting on the title of the thread: it's not far off the mark.

 

[Magenta]

1 John 4:18

 

[Runningman]

Many of us hear the word of God but we will see in the scriptures that Fear bring forth Obedience. Once you really sit down and study the Bible from Genesis to Revelation you will see that God means what he says and can't lie. We in the last days where the great punishment comes at the end (Lake of Fire). But those of us who walk in the word of God knows that sometime we have to be chastening by God for correction. Paul says in Hebrew 12: My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, Nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: 6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, And scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. 7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? 8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. 9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

But theres a everlasting punishment for those who refuse to be corrected. Jesus says in Luke 12: 4, 5 And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

But Let's go back to the beginning and see how the Lord dealt with his people and get some understanding on how we should we wise and be obedient.

Let’s go into Joshua 3: 1 And Joshua rose early in the morning; and they removed from Shittim, and came to Jordan, he and all the children of Israel, and lodged there before they passed over. 7 And the LORD said unto Joshua, This day will I begin to magnify thee in the sight of all Israel, that they may know that, as I was with Moses, so I will be with thee.

8 And thou shalt command the priests that bear the ark of the covenant, saying, When ye are come to the brink of the water of Jordan, ye shall stand still in Jordan. 13 And it shall come to pass, as soon as the soles of the feet of the priests that bear the ark of the LORD, the Lord of all the earth, shall rest in the waters of Jordan, that the waters of Jordan shall be cut off from the waters that come down from above; and they shall stand upon an heap. 15 and as they that bare the ark were come unto Jordan, and the feet of the priests that bare the ark were dipped in the brim of the water, (for Jordan overfloweth all his banks all the time of harvest,) 16 that the waters which came down from above stood and rose up upon an heap very far from the city Adam, that is beside Zaretan: and those that came down toward the sea of the plain, even the salt sea, failed, and were cut off: and the people passed over right against Jericho. 17 And the priests that bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD stood firm on dry ground in the midst of Jordan, and all the Israelites passed over on dry ground, until all the people were passed clean over Jordan.

We see that God magnified Joshua so the people would have the same fear they had towards Moses.

Let’s continue in Joshua 4:1 And it came to pass, when all the people were clean passed over, that the ark of the LORD passed over, and the priests, in the presence of the people. 14 On that day the LORD magnified Joshua in the sight of all Israel; and they feared him, as they feared Moses, all the days of his life.15 And the LORD spake unto Joshua, saying, 16 Command the priests that bear the ark of the testimony, that they come up out of Jordan. 17 Joshua therefore commanded the priests, saying, Come ye up out of Jordan. 18 And it came to pass, when the priests that bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD were come up out of the midst of Jordan, and the soles of the priests' feet were lifted up unto the dry land, that the waters of Jordan returned unto their place, and flowed over all his banks, as they did before. 23 For the LORD your God dried up the waters of Jordan from before you, until ye were passed over, as the LORD your God did to the Red sea, which he dried up from before us, until we were gone over: 24 that all the people of the earth might know the hand of the LORD, that it is mighty: that ye might fear the LORD your God for ever.


God knows with out fear, people will not obey him.

Do children obey their father because they love them or because they fear them?

Obedience through fear is coercion and more closely aligns with mimicking good behavior to avoid punishments. It’s a charade that will eventually create apostates.

Obedience from love is sincere and genuine.

 

[Blik]

We are being wise when we know fear of the death the Adam and Eve brought us, but love conquers fear. Our Father saved us from that death, we obey Him because we love Him and we are so thankful to God for our eternal life through Him.

Proverbs 1:7 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge;

Phil. 4:6-7 do not be anxious about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God. 7 And the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.

 

[ResidentAlien]

"But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear Him who, after He has killed, has power to cast into hell; yes, I say to you, fear Him!"—Luke 12:5

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

op: faith by hearing; obedience By FEAR?

God knows with out fear, people will not obey him.

Precious friend:

The Body Of CHRIST Should serve Him "out of LOVE," not fear!:

1) 2Ti 1:7 "For God hath not given us the spirit of fear;

but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind."​

2) From an Excellent Article of Rightly Divided worship:

...All the More Reason to Worship

First let’s look at the motive God gave His people in Israel to worship Him by obeying the commandments. Under the law, He told them,

“I set before you this day a blessing and a curse; A blessing, if ye obey the commandments of the Lord… And a curse, if ye will not obey…” (Deut. 11:26-28).​

Under the law, God told His people to obey His commandments or be cursed. But when the apostle of grace talks about the ten commandments, he doesn’t say to obey them or be cursed. He says,

“…love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour, therefore love is the fulfilling of the law” (Rom. 13:8-10).​

Paul doesn’t tell us to obey the law out of fear that God will curse us if we don’t. He says we should keep the law out of love. If you love your neighbor, are you going to lie to him, steal his stuff, or covet his wife and commit adultery with her?

There’s also another kind of love that should motivate you not to sin against your neighbor, and that’s Christ’s love for you:

“…The LOVE Of Christ constraineth us, because… He died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto Him Which died for them, and rose again” (2 Cor. 5:14,15).​

Another reason you should want to keep the law that says not to lie or steal is that Christ loved you enough to die to save you from all your lying and stealing. Continuing to sin after God gave you a new heart would be like an alcoholic continuing to drink after receiving a new liver. Neither of those scenarios reflects the proper gratitude people should have for the gift of a new life...

3) FULL "study" here:
Rightly Divided worship

GRACE and Peace...

 

[BroTan]

op: faith by hearing; obedience By FEAR?

Precious friend:

The Body Of CHRIST Should serve Him "out of LOVE," not fear!:

1) 2Ti 1:7 "For God hath not given us the spirit of fear;

but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind."​

2) From an Excellent Article of Rightly Divided worship:

...All the More Reason to Worship

First let’s look at the motive God gave His people in Israel to worship Him by obeying the commandments. Under the law, He told them,

“I set before you this day a blessing and a curse; A blessing, if ye obey the commandments of the Lord… And a curse, if ye will not obey…” (Deut. 11:26-28).​

Under the law, God told His people to obey His commandments or be cursed. But when the apostle of grace talks about the ten commandments, he doesn’t say to obey them or be cursed. He says,

“…love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour, therefore love is the fulfilling of the law” (Rom. 13:8-10).​

Paul doesn’t tell us to obey the law out of fear that God will curse us if we don’t. He says we should keep the law out of love. If you love your neighbor, are you going to lie to him, steal his stuff, or covet his wife and commit adultery with her?

There’s also another kind of love that should motivate you not to sin against your neighbor, and that’s Christ’s love for you:

“…The LOVE Of Christ constraineth us, because… He died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto Him Which died for them, and rose again” (2 Cor. 5:14,15).​

Another reason you should want to keep the law that says not to lie or steal is that Christ loved you enough to die to save you from all your lying and stealing. Continuing to sin after God gave you a new heart would be like an alcoholic continuing to drink after receiving a new liver. Neither of those scenarios reflects the proper gratitude people should have for the gift of a new life...

3) FULL "study" here:
Rightly Divided worship

GRACE and Peace...

I'm all good with love and how we should love the Lord, but that's just one side of the coin. All the verses you post is right on point when it comes to loving the Lord. Let’s go into Proverbs 1: 5 A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; And a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels: 6 To understand a proverb, and the interpretation; The words of the wise, and their dark sayings. 7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: But fools despise wisdom and instruction. 23 Turn you at my reproof: Behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you.

So without fear you cannot have that perfect balance.

 

[posthuman]

Just commenting on the title of the thread: it's not far off the mark.

not sure i agree that fear is the only path to obedience

 

[BroTan]

Do children obey their father because they love them or because they fear them?

Obedience through fear is coercion and more closely aligns with mimicking good behavior to avoid punishments. It’s a charade that will eventually create apostates.

Obedience from love is sincere and genuine.

Let's take a look at a situation that happen by not pay attention to protocol. These little details are very important to understand.

Let’s go into 1 Chronicles 13: 6 And David went up, and all Israel, to Baalah, that is, to Kirjath-jearim, which belonged to Judah, to bring up thence the ark of God the LORD, that dwelleth between the cherubims, whose name is called on it.

7 And they carried the ark of God in a new cart out of the house of Abinadab: and Uzza and Ahio drave the cart. 8 And David and all Israel played before God with all their might, and with singing, and with harps, and with psalteries, and with timbrels, and with cymbals, and with trumpets. 9 And when they came unto the threshingfloor of Chidon, Uzza put forth his hand to hold the ark; for the oxen stumbled. 10 And the anger of the LORD was kindled against Uzza, and he smote him, because he put his hand to the ark: and there he died before God. 11 And David was displeased, because the LORD had made a breach upon Uzza: wherefore that place is called Perez-uzza to this day. 12 And David was afraid of God that day, saying, How shall I bring the ark of God home to me? 13 So David brought not the ark home to himself to the city of David, but carried it aside into the house of Obed-edom the Gittite. 14 And the ark of God remained with the family of Obed-edom in his house three months. And the LORD blessed the house of Obed-edom, and all that he had.

Let’s skip right over to 1 Chronicles 15: 1 And David made him houses in the city of David, and prepared a place for the ark of God, and pitched for it a tent. 2 Then David said, None ought to carry the ark of God but the Levites: for them hath the LORD chosen to carry the ark of God, and to minister unto him for ever. 11 And David called for Zadok and Abiathar the priests, and for the Levites, for Uriel, Asaiah, and Joel, Shemaiah, and Eliel, and Amminadab,

12 and said unto them, Ye are the chief of the fathers of the Levites: sanctify yourselves, both ye and your brethren, that ye may bring up the ark of the LORD God of Israel unto the place that I have prepared for it. 13 For because ye did it not at the first, the LORD our God made a breach upon us, for that we sought him not after the due order. 14 So the priests and the Levites sanctified themselves to bring up the ark of the LORD God of Israel. 15 And the children of the Levites bare the ark of God upon their shoulders with the staves thereon, as Moses commanded according to the word of the LORD.

We have to understand how our God operate, because parents have rules to.

 

[posthuman]

The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge

is it also the end of knowledge?

 

[BroTan]

not sure i agree that fear is the only path to obedience

In the scriptures it's written in Psalm 34: 9 O fear the LORD, ye his saints: for there is no want to them that fear him.

 

[posthuman]

In the scriptures it's written in Psalm 34: 9 O fear the LORD, ye his saints: for there is no want to them that fear him.

yes

but i also have,

There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. ​

But he who fears has not been made perfect in love. ​

(1 John 4:18)​

​

fear of the LORD is certainly the beginning of knowledge - and to fear the LORD is to hate evil ((Proverbs 8:13))
so i still ask, is fear also the completion of knowledge?

does knowledge of God begin & end with fear

 

[Aerials1978]

not sure i agree that fear is the only path to obedience

I think out of the fear comes a reverence. We begin to obey because we love our God and want to do what is pleasing.

 

[Magenta]

Phil. 4:6-7 do not be anxious about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God. 7 And the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.

Philippians 4:6, 7, & 19

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

God knows with out fear, people will not obey him.

Jesus paid for the PENALTY of sin on the cross. From there on, we who have ears to hear will naturally and joyfully obey Him. No matter what circumstances, we fear NO MORE, for we know that our rewards await in the next life. All the happiness and contentment in carefree childhood, marriage life, church service, success in career and everything else are just a foretaste of the Kingdom.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Many of us hear the word of God but we will see in the scriptures that Fear bring forth Obedience. Once you really sit down and study the Bible from Genesis to Revelation you will see that God means what he says and can't lie. We in the last days where the great punishment comes at the end (Lake of Fire). But those of us who walk in the word of God knows that sometime we have to be chastening by God for correction. Paul says in Hebrew 12: My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, Nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: 6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, And scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. 7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? 8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. 9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

But theres a everlasting punishment for those who refuse to be corrected. Jesus says in Luke 12: 4, 5 And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

But Let's go back to the beginning and see how the Lord dealt with his people and get some understanding on how we should we wise and be obedient.

Let’s go into Joshua 3: 1 And Joshua rose early in the morning; and they removed from Shittim, and came to Jordan, he and all the children of Israel, and lodged there before they passed over. 7 And the LORD said unto Joshua, This day will I begin to magnify thee in the sight of all Israel, that they may know that, as I was with Moses, so I will be with thee.

8 And thou shalt command the priests that bear the ark of the covenant, saying, When ye are come to the brink of the water of Jordan, ye shall stand still in Jordan. 13 And it shall come to pass, as soon as the soles of the feet of the priests that bear the ark of the LORD, the Lord of all the earth, shall rest in the waters of Jordan, that the waters of Jordan shall be cut off from the waters that come down from above; and they shall stand upon an heap. 15 and as they that bare the ark were come unto Jordan, and the feet of the priests that bare the ark were dipped in the brim of the water, (for Jordan overfloweth all his banks all the time of harvest,) 16 that the waters which came down from above stood and rose up upon an heap very far from the city Adam, that is beside Zaretan: and those that came down toward the sea of the plain, even the salt sea, failed, and were cut off: and the people passed over right against Jericho. 17 And the priests that bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD stood firm on dry ground in the midst of Jordan, and all the Israelites passed over on dry ground, until all the people were passed clean over Jordan.

We see that God magnified Joshua so the people would have the same fear they had towards Moses.

Let’s continue in Joshua 4:1 And it came to pass, when all the people were clean passed over, that the ark of the LORD passed over, and the priests, in the presence of the people. 14 On that day the LORD magnified Joshua in the sight of all Israel; and they feared him, as they feared Moses, all the days of his life.15 And the LORD spake unto Joshua, saying, 16 Command the priests that bear the ark of the testimony, that they come up out of Jordan. 17 Joshua therefore commanded the priests, saying, Come ye up out of Jordan. 18 And it came to pass, when the priests that bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD were come up out of the midst of Jordan, and the soles of the priests' feet were lifted up unto the dry land, that the waters of Jordan returned unto their place, and flowed over all his banks, as they did before. 23 For the LORD your God dried up the waters of Jordan from before you, until ye were passed over, as the LORD your God did to the Red sea, which he dried up from before us, until we were gone over: 24 that all the people of the earth might know the hand of the LORD, that it is mighty: that ye might fear the LORD your God for ever.


God knows with out fear, people will not obey him.

“By mercy and truth iniquity is purged:

and by the fear of the Lord men depart from evil.”
‭‭Proverbs‬ ‭16:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

if we believe this and learn the terror of the lord We will repent

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬



Fear as we know it in the world isn’t good but the fear of God is wise for the sinner to take to heart and believe the truth of judgement

obedience comes from letting the Gospel do this

“Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

these days we hear of no accountability for our actions which allows us to continue on unchanged without repentance we’re being deceived subtly

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

these days we hear of no accountability for our actions which allows us to continue on unchanged without repentance we’re being deceived subtly

"All things are lawful," but not all things are beneficial. God's grace is FORGIVENESS of sin, not a license to sin, so don't abuse it. "Love your God with all your heart, all your strength and all your soul." If we truly love Him, we won't break His heart by sinning against Him. If we just go to church on Sunday and live the rest of the week like the heathens, that is like a man who only visits his wife and kids at weekend while he sleeps with hookers for the rest of the week. And since the PLANdemic, he doesn't even bother to physically visit at weekend for some sexual intimacy, he just sets a Facetime meeting with his wife calling that "virtue worship". As soon as it's done, he's like "OK, bye honey, love ya, muah!" Then he runs straight back to the hookers.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

"All things are lawful," but not all things are beneficial. God's grace is FORGIVENESS of sin, not a license to sin, so don't abuse it. "Love your God with all your heart, all your strength and all your soul." If we truly love Him, we won't break His heart by sinning against Him. If we just go to church on Sunday and live the rest of the week like the heathens, that is like a man who only visits his wife and kids at weekend while he sleeps with hookers for the rest of the week. And since the PLANdemic, he doesn't even bother to physically visit at weekend for some sexual intimacy, he just sets a Facetime meeting with his wife calling that "virtue worship". As soon as it's done, he's like "OK, bye honey, love ya, muah!" Then he runs straight back to the hookers.

I’m not following what youre saying or how it relates sorry

I’m saying we have to do this one day and to believe is meant to straighten up our lives and bring us to repentance

“Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

Who will render to every man according to his deeds: To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:4-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

there is the fear of God in acknowledging the truth Paul wrote to the church there as he did in nearly every epistle.

mercy and truth , leads to the fear of God and repentance leaving an obedient person. We have to acknowledge the truth of judgement according to our deeds so we will repent and live right