One taken,one left. The rapture.

justpassinthrough · Mar 9, 2022

The resurrection of the dead in Christ and the rapture occur at His coming.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
1 Thessalonians 4:15

we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep

The resurrection and rapture are one event whereby the dead in Christ are resurrected first, then those who are alive and remain are caught up together with them.

For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.

The three main things that occur at His coming:

The resurrection
The rapture
The destruction of the antichrist and his followers

And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.
2 Thessalonians 2:8

JPT

Carry_Your_Name · Mar 9, 2022

Absolutely said:

Numerous Bible verses have already been shown to you, you ignored them all. In Matt 24:29-31 Jesus clearly said His second coming is "IMMEDIATELY AFTER the tribulation", all the rest of the Olivet Discouse AFTER that was describing the what it was like in the Day of the Lord, including "one taken one left" part, and yet you've just shifted it to pre-trib. You love your wishful thinking, keep it to yourself.

DavidTree · Mar 9, 2022

Absolutely said:

I'm making a some fresh ground organic coffee right now - come on over.

FreeGrace2 · Mar 9, 2022

DavidTree said:

Could you prove the Scripture for this?

Thanks.

FreeGrace2 · Mar 9, 2022

kleronomos said:
movie script from Hollywood

Absolutely said:

Really quite unbelievable!! It is the pretribbers who have NO VERSES showing Jesus taking glorified believers to heaven.

But this one does have a lot of gall.

FreeGrace2 · Mar 9, 2022

Absolutely said:

OK, for the umpteenth time, let's go.

2 Thess 2:1 - Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters,

Rev 20:4,5
4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.

So, you can stop lying now. We sure do have verses that pin the single resurrection "when He comes" per 1 Cor 15:23 - But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

The ONLY PART of "rapture doctrine" that is biblical is that living believers will be caught up in the air to meet the Lord "when He comes".

Again, there will be NO trips to heaven in glorified bodies. None.

Or the pretribbers would have been shoving them down our throats already.

FreeGrace2 · Mar 9, 2022

Absolutely said:

What a joke! You've done MORE slander/mocking of posttribbers than anyone. But you also have a lot of gall.

Posttribbers simply show the verses that prove that there will be a resurrection of ALL believers "when He comes" back at the Second Advent. 1 Cor 15:23 - But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

This is what people who have NO VERSES to support their claims do when they make those claims.

FreeGrace2 · Mar 9, 2022

Absolutely said:

Pretty much sums up the pretribbers position.

Absolutely · Mar 9, 2022

justpassinthrough said:

The resurrection of the dead in Christ and the rapture occur at His coming.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
1 Thessalonians 4:15

we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep

The resurrection and rapture are one event whereby the dead in Christ are resurrected first, then those who are alive and remain are caught up together with them.

For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.

The three main things that occur at His coming:

The resurrection
The rapture
The destruction of the antichrist and his followers

And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.
2 Thessalonians 2:8

JPT

Mat 24 has 2 comings.
Re read it.
You left one out.

But you also left out the coming of Jesus in rev 14 (that is neither the rapture or the second coming on horses).

Omission is not the high ground.

FreeGrace2 · Mar 9, 2022

Absolutely said:

Can you prove your claim here? That would require you to actually cite/quote verses and explain each coming.

Those who deny the clear verses about the resurrection and gathering as occurring at the Second Advent are on very low ground.

Absolutely · Mar 9, 2022

Carry_Your_Name said:

nobody has EVER questioned the fact Jesus returns AFTER the trib.
We are well aware of that.

You need to produce something relevant.
Not falsely claim " you ignore them all"

Ahem;
You got 2 verses.
Mat 24 " after the trib"....i address that all the time..no problem.

Then the one fg made famous in your camp;
The "no heaven celebration" (nobody goes to heaven because we ignore and reframe anything pointing to it) that you guys think has any relevance.

.....Your ONLY 2 verses!

I ignore none of it.
It is easy to address, and correct yall.
No problem

Now try saying something true.

Surely you can do it.

Absolutely · Mar 9, 2022

Absolutely said:

Lot is a huge problem.
He was removed.PREJUDGEMENT.
They went and got him
He was taken.
Kinda like the one on the roof dynamic.

SO WAS THE BABY JESUS.

But hey, no postribber will acknowledge that.

Red flag big time.
Banished or reframed into
"lot had zoar"
Uh huh.

^^^^^^^^^this^^^^^^^^^

FreeGrace2 · Mar 9, 2022

Absolutely said:

How come you reject the verses that prove the single resurrection occurs then?

Posttribbers have the verses that ARE relevant because they say precisely WHEN the resurrection will occur; Second Advent.

You are the one with the problem with truth.

There is NO truth about Jesus escorting glorified believers to heaven. Or there would be verses about that.

DavidTree · Mar 9, 2022

FreeGrace2 said:

The Foundation of all Truth begins in Genesis and continues thru to Revelation.

Genesis is the 'smell test' for foundational doctrines.

Just as the Lord Jesus is the Cornerstone of the Temple so to is Genesis the cornerstone for the rest of Scripture to be built upon.

A. God = Elohim = Father Son Holy Spirit = Genesis ch1
B. Creation
C. Man
D. Woman
E. Serpent/Satan/Sin
F. Judgment pronounced
G. Wrath to come
H. Savior Promised = Deliverance from God's wrath to come = Animal(s) sacrificed and their skins cover the nakedness (sin) of Adam and Eve
I. Tribulation upon the Righteous = Cain slays Abel
J. Children of wrath = Cain
K. Tribulation = Satan comes to earth in physical manifestation thru some of his angels
L. Tribulation = Genetic corruption/manipulation of all flesh to pervert and prevent Messiah thru Man made in the Image of God
M. Tribulation upon the entire world that "then was" = Enoch walks with God and speaks to the Angels face to face = Jesus 1st Coming
N. God's warning of impending wrath = Grace = Noah
O. Out of town = Noah & Family, thru Grace, escape God's wrath and skip town(temporary) but return to rebuild the ruins = Isaiah 58
P. People repopulate the earth for the purpose of Messiah to fulfill all Righteousness which was first spoken in Genesis
Q. Question??? = When will Messiah come? = Moses/Law/Prophets
R. Run to Christ and be saved
S. Savior/Salvation upon the Cross dies for us
T. Triumph over the Grave = HE is Risen
U. Up and away Christ returns to where HE came from = the Glory
V. Victory for sinful man as Christ pours out His Blood upon the Mercy Seat at the Right Hand of God = Eternal Priesthood
W. When will Christ Return???
X. X Marks the Spot = Mark of the Beast
Y. Yearning for Christ under Great Tribulation
Z. Revelation/Omega = Christ is the Alpha and the Omega = Beginning and End = His Return, Resurrection of the Just and Restoration

This is obviously in brief leaving out much detail in between A thru to Z but is the cornerstone of all Biblical Truth.

Carry_Your_Name · Mar 9, 2022

Absolutely said:

First of all that's THREE verses, not two. Go learn to count first. Also, the "Elect" have been there from the beginning of chapter 24, Jesus simply gave them instructions to run for the mountains when they saw the signs of His coming and don't fall for any frauds, nobody's "raptured", "removed" or "taken" into heaven. If they were raptured then why are they still there?

kleronomos · Mar 9, 2022

Absolutely said:

As there can be 'no marriage IF EVERYBODY isn't there, then it will have to WAIT until the 'alive and remaining' are changed. Since the alive and remaining are changed AT HIS RETURN when His Brightness destroys Satan and Satan is bound for the 1000 years aka the The Lords Day aka The day of Vengeance and that is when GREAT TRIBULATION/Judgment takes place hence the VERSES THAT COME right BEFORE IT,

That position would be wrong.

I understand you have all these other 'dynamics' about OTHER NON RELATED ISSUES that you wish to superimpose upon the The day of the Lord like harvests and Jewish weddings BUT THEY AREN'T WORKING. They are all CONJECTURE ON YOUR PART. IT ISN'T WRITTEN ANY WHERE THAT JEWISH WEDDING TRADITIONS OF MAN HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE RETURN OF THE LORD. NEITHER DOES HARVEST HAVE TO DO WITH RETURN OF THE LORD

IF IT DID YOU WOULD BE ABLE TO TAKE WHAT IS WRITTEN AND LAY IT RIGHT ON TOP OF IT AND THERE WOULD BE NO CONFLICT. BUT ALLL YOU HAVE IS CONFLICT. THAT ISN'T OF GOD. THAT IS CALLED TRADITIONS OF MAN.

ONE TAKEN IS TAKEN BEFORE THE RETURN OF CHRIST. THAT LEAVES ONLY ONE TO DO THE 'TAKING' AND THAT IS SATAN.

THE MARRIAGE COMES AFTER JUDGMENT, THAT IS IF YOU READ AND BELIEVE WHAT IS WRITTEN.

YOU ARE NOT UNDERSTANDING THE SEASONS. YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT THIEF (THE ONE BREAKING INTO THE HOUSE AKA SATAN UPON THE SOUL) COMES FIRST

Matthew 24:43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

THE GOOD MAN WOULD NOT HAVE SUFFERED HIS HOUSE TO BE BROKEN INTO AND

NOT BECAUSE SOMEONE ELSE CAME AND FLEW HIM AWAY

BUT BECAUSE HE WATCHED AND DIDN'T LET THE THIEF BREAK IN.

AGAIN, THAT WOULD BE THE OVERCOMER OVERCOMING AND NOT THE GOOD MAN ENDURING UNTO THE END.

Carry_Your_Name · Mar 9, 2022

Absolutely said:

Nope, there's only one. From 24:32 to 51, it's all descriptions of what it would be like when He comes. If you still think there're two, then the other one is either in the desert or in a secret closet specially reserved for you, go find it.

FreeGrace2 · Mar 9, 2022

DavidTree said:
CORRECT = Scripture is 100% Pre-Wrath for His Elect
FreeGrace2 said:
Could you prove the Scripture for this?

Thanks.

DavidTree said:

The Foundation of all Truth begins in Genesis and continues thru to Revelation.

Genesis is the 'smell test' for foundational doctrines.

Just as the Lord Jesus is the Cornerstone of the Temple so to is Genesis the cornerstone for the rest of Scripture to be built upon.

A. God = Elohim = Father Son Holy Spirit = Genesis ch1
B. Creation
C. Man
D. Woman
E. Serpent/Satan/Sin
F. Judgment pronounced
G. Wrath to come
H. Savior Promised = Deliverance from God's wrath to come = Animal(s) sacrificed and their skins cover the nakedness (sin) of Adam and Eve
I. Tribulation upon the Righteous = Cain slays Abel
J. Children of wrath = Cain
K. Tribulation = Satan comes to earth in physical manifestation thru some of his angels
L. Tribulation = Genetic corruption/manipulation of all flesh to pervert and prevent Messiah thru Man made in the Image of God
M. Tribulation upon the entire world that "then was" = Enoch walks with God and speaks to the Angels face to face = Jesus 1st Coming
N. God's warning of impending wrath = Grace = Noah
O. Out of town = Noah & Family, thru Grace, escape God's wrath and skip town(temporary) but return to rebuild the ruins = Isaiah 58
P. People repopulate the earth for the purpose of Messiah to fulfill all Righteousness which was first spoken in Genesis
Q. Question??? = When will Messiah come? = Moses/Law/Prophets
R. Run to Christ and be saved
S. Savior/Salvation upon the Cross dies for us
T. Triumph over the Grave = HE is Risen
U. Up and away Christ returns to where HE came from = the Glory
V. Victory for sinful man as Christ pours out His Blood upon the Mercy Seat at the Right Hand of God = Eternal Priesthood
W. When will Christ Return???
X. X Marks the Spot = Mark of the Beast
Y. Yearning for Christ under Great Tribulation
Z. Revelation/Omega = Christ is the Alpha and the Omega = Beginning and End = His Return, Resurrection of the Just and Restoration

This is obviously in brief leaving out much detail in between A thru to Z but is the cornerstone of all Biblical Truth.

I was hoping for specific verses that show a "pre-wrath removal of the elect".

Carry_Your_Name · Mar 9, 2022

kleronomos said:

As there can be 'no marriage IF EVERYBODY isn't there, then it will have to WAIT until the 'alive and remaining' are changed. Since the alive and remaining are changed AT HIS RETURN when His Brightness destroys Satan and Satan is bound for the 1000 years aka the The Lords Day aka The day of Vengeance and that is when GREAT TRIBULATION/Judgment takes place hence the VERSES THAT COME right BEFORE IT,

That position would be wrong.

I understand you have all these other 'dynamics' about OTHER NON RELATED ISSUES that you wish to superimpose upon the The day of the Lord like harvests and Jewish weddings BUT THEY AREN'T WORKING. They are all CONJECTURE ON YOUR PART. IT ISN'T WRITTEN ANY WHERE THAT JEWISH WEDDING TRADITIONS OF MAN HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE RETURN OF THE LORD. NEITHER DOES HARVEST HAVE TO DO WITH RETURN OF THE LORD

IF IT DID YOU WOULD BE ABLE TO TAKE WHAT IS WRITTEN AND LAY IT RIGHT ON TOP OF IT AND THERE WOULD BE NO CONFLICT. BUT ALLL YOU HAVE IS CONFLICT. THAT ISN'T OF GOD. THAT IS CALLED TRADITIONS OF MAN.

ONE TAKEN IS TAKEN BEFORE THE RETURN OF CHRIST. THAT LEAVES ONLY ONE TO DO THE 'TAKING' AND THAT IS SATAN.

THE MARRIAGE COMES AFTER JUDGMENT, THAT IS IF YOU READ AND BELIEVE WHAT IS WRITTEN.

YOU ARE NOT UNDERSTANDING THE SEASONS. YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT THIEF (THE ONE BREAKING INTO THE HOUSE AKA SATAN UPON THE SOUL) COMES FIRST

Matthew 24:43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

THE GOOD MAN WOULD NOT HAVE SUFFERED HIS HOUSE TO BE BROKEN INTO AND

NOT BECAUSE SOMEONE ELSE CAME AND FLEW HIM AWAY

BUT BECAUSE HE WATCHED AND DIDN'T LET THE THIEF BREAK IN.

AGAIN, THAT WOULD BE THE OVERCOMER OVERCOMING AND NOT THE GOOD MAN ENDURING UNTO THE END.

Look it's not that complicated. There's just one key message of the Olivet Discourse - when you see these signs, RUUUUUNNNNN!!! Some will listen and run, others will call you a rightwing conspiracy theorist and stay, hence "one taken, one left." Everything after Matt. 24:31 is illustrations and parables of such REACTIONS, there's not one word about a "secret rapture" or any indication of another "coming".

DavidTree · Mar 9, 2022

FreeGrace2 said:

Noah

God likes to paint pictures of truth = Genesis

One taken,one left. The rapture.

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