Is the first resurrection divided into two groups?

[Runningman]

Revelation 20:4-5 KJV
4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

I don’t see many people point this out, but it seems to be really important. Let me show you what I am seeing in Revelation 20:4-6, specifically. I bolded some of the text above.

1. Saints or church members who are martyred during the great tribulation period for their refusal to worship the beast or take his mark are resurrected and reign with Christ 1,000 years.

2. The rest of the dead did not come to life until after the 1,000 years were compete. Meaning they remained a disembodied soul during the 1,000 year reign of Christ.

In conclusion, what I see is that the first resurrection actually has two groups. The first group is martyred saints from the great tribulation who came to life for 1,000 years. The second group is all of the others saints who didn’t come to life until after 1,000 years.

Thanks for reading this.

 

[GaryA]

Keep in mind that it does not actually say that the first-group-martyrs were the only ones that reign with Christ for the 1000 years.

 

[Runningman]

Keep in mind that it does not actually say that the first-group-martyrs were the only ones that reign with Christ for the 1000 years.

Agreed, but those martyred were souls who came to life. So they got a resurrected body 1,000 years before the rest of the dead in Christ. The non-resurrected souls did something else, doesn’t confirm or deny they reigned with Christ. There’s a possibility here that only those who are martyred in the great tribulation will be in the MK.

 

[Runningman]

Another question:

Revelation 20:4 says “And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls…

So here we go. Souls are before some thrones and some persons are on the thrones ready to judge.

Is this a separate judgement to the great white throne judgement or is this a reference to the great white throne judgement?

Depending which answer you chose, where do you place the millennial kingdom on the biblical timeline? Before or after the GWTJ mentioned in Revelation 20:11-15?

 

[Deuteronomy]

Hello @Runningman, you left out v6, which I believe is helpful in understanding what is being said here. So here it is, v4-6, that is.

Revelation 20
4 Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.​

How can the 2nd death have power over ~anyone~ who has died in Christ So, I believe that v5's "the rest of the dead" (IOW, all who are not included in the "first resurrection") is referring to the unsaved, alone.

God bless you!

~Deut

 

[GaryA]

Agreed, but those martyred were souls who came to life. So they got a resurrected body 1,000 years before the rest of the dead in Christ. The non-resurrected souls did something else, doesn’t confirm or deny they reigned with Christ. There’s a possibility here that only those who are martyred in the great tribulation will be in the MK.

Don't confuse resurrected-and-alive in/during the millenium and/with resurrected-and-reign-with-Christ in/during the millenium.

Who exactly will be resurrected, raptured, and obtain glorified bodies at the beginning of the millenium at the Second Coming of Christ?

 

[Runningman]

Hello @Runningman, you left out v6, which I believe is helpful in understanding what is being said here. So here it is, v4-6, that is.

Revelation 20​

4 Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.​

5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.​

6 Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.​

How can the 2nd death have power over ~anyone~ who has died in Christ So, I believe that v5's "the rest of the dead" (IOW, all who are not included in the "first resurrection") is referring to the unsaved, alone.

God bless you!

~Deut

Definitely an interesting perspective and yes I should have included verse 6. Not sure why I didn’t.

The dead in Christ who did not live until the 1,000 years were finished and they are definitely part of the first resurrection. It can’t be possible that those in Christ get a second death.

I think verse 6 means that those who are not resurrected until after the 1,000 years still get to reign with Christ at some point but as a disembodied soul instead of with a body. I don’t see they it confirms or denies they reign with Christ for the MK or the reign with Christ afterwards, or both. However, the martyrs definitely reign with Christ for the MK.

I still think there are two groups for the first resurrection but thanks for giving me a fresh and different perspective.

God bless you

 

[Runningman]

Don't confuse resurrected-and-alive in/during the millenium and/with resurrected-and-reign-with-Christ in/during the millenium.

Who exactly will be resurrected, raptured, and obtain glorified bodies at the beginning of the millenium at the Second Coming of Christ?

I would definitely defer to 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 to answer that question. God brings with Jesus those who are asleep. I believe these are the saints martyred in the great tribulation and they are resurrected first. Then those who are “alive and remain” are those who survived something and contextually they survived the great tribulation.

This means, as far as I can tell, the millennial kingdom is composed of those who survived the great tribulation and those who were martyred in the great tribulation.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Revelation 20:4-5 KJV
4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

I don’t see many people point this out, but it seems to be really important. Let me show you what I am seeing in Revelation 20:4-6, specifically. I bolded some of the text above.

1. Saints or church members who are martyred during the great tribulation period for their refusal to worship the beast or take his mark are resurrected and reign with Christ 1,000 years.

2. The rest of the dead did not come to life until after the 1,000 years were compete. Meaning they remained a disembodied soul during the 1,000 year reign of Christ.

In conclusion, what I see is that the first resurrection actually has two groups. The first group is martyred saints from the great tribulation who came to life for 1,000 years. The second group is all of the others saints who didn’t come to life until after 1,000 years.

Thanks for reading this.

good read thanks for taking the time to share it

I think it would depend on whether one is waiting for tribulation to come or whether they believe tribulation began with the destruction of Jerusalem. And whether they are taking a literal interpretation of 1000 years.

how one interprets the mark of the beast also would matter whether we’re waiting for a literal 3.5 year period or not ect a lot of factors

But yes I agree there are two groups in the 1st resurrection. The martyrs shown here earlier

“And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭6:11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

taking part in christs resurrection like this group

“and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭27:52-53‬ ‭


Included in that resurrection there are those who will never see death at all though also. So they aren’t waiting for a resurrection but have been brought from death already. Being born anew into eternal Life

“Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

and whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?”
‭‭John‬ ‭11:25-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:51‬ ‭KJV‬‬

there are martyrs and then the faithful church who accept his word now in life both are of the kingdom and first resurrection. the church doesn’t have to ever encounter death being already passed from its grip on man , but some will encounter death and be raised up later

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

all Of us are apppinted that our body dies that’s the first death but the second death we can escape from now. By accepting his judgement now we never have to know death we will just part from our body and enter the kingdom and be judged that day.

the last resurrection is both of righteous and wicked people who didn’t receive the gospel and the promises of life within.

 

[Diakonos]

Revelation 20:4-5 KJV
4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

I don’t see many people point this out, but it seems to be really important. Let me show you what I am seeing in Revelation 20:4-6, specifically. I bolded some of the text above.

1. Saints or church members who are martyred during the great tribulation period for their refusal to worship the beast or take his mark are resurrected and reign with Christ 1,000 years.

2. The rest of the dead did not come to life until after the 1,000 years were compete. Meaning they remained a disembodied soul during the 1,000 year reign of Christ.

In conclusion, what I see is that the first resurrection actually has two groups. The first group is martyred saints from the great tribulation who came to life for 1,000 years. The second group is all of the others saints who didn’t come to life until after 1,000 years.

Thanks for reading this.

Your view on the rapture and the exact meaning of "παρουσία" will affect this, but here is my understanding of resurrection order:

There are 2 resurrections.
Everyone in the 1st resurrection experiences eternal life.
Everyone in the 2nd resurrection experiences the 2nd death.
There are 4 orders (sequences) of the 1st resurrection.
The sequences:
1. Christ
2. Church
3. Tribulation saints
4. OT saints.

Timing:
The 1st sequence is after the crucifixion
The 2nd sequence is at the rapture
The 3rd and 4th sequences are simultaneous, between the 2nd advent and the millennium.

 

[GaryA]

Another question:

Revelation 20:4 says “And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls…

So here we go. Souls are before some thrones and some persons are on the thrones ready to judge.

Is this a separate judgement to the great white throne judgement or is this a reference to the great white throne judgement?

Depending which answer you chose, where do you place the millennial kingdom on the biblical timeline? Before or after the GWTJ mentioned in Revelation 20:11-15?

The GWTJ is most definitely after the millenium.

I see the thrones as part of the reign-with-Christ activity during the millenium.

It does not actually say the 'souls' are being judged by those on thrones.

 

[GaryA]

Everyone in the 2nd resurrection experiences the 2nd death.

Is that supposed to include those who - are born during the millenium - are born-again during the millenium - die during the millenium...???

People are quick to forget about those who are saved during the millenium.

 

[GaryA]

I think verse 6 means that those who are not resurrected until after the 1,000 years still get to reign with Christ at some point but as a disembodied soul instead of with a body. I don’t see they it confirms or denies they reign with Christ for the MK or the reign with Christ afterwards, or both. However, the martyrs definitely reign with Christ for the MK.

Verse 6 is about - and, "only has anything to do with" - those who are part of the first resurrection.

 

[GaryA]

I would definitely defer to 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 to answer that question. God brings with Jesus those who are asleep. I believe these are the saints martyred in the great tribulation and they are resurrected first. Then those who are “alive and remain” are those who survived something and contextually they survived the great tribulation.

This means, as far as I can tell, the millennial kingdom is composed of those who survived the great tribulation and those who were martyred in the great tribulation.

There is only one pre-millennial resurrection.

 

[Diakonos]

Is that supposed to include those who - are born during the millenium - are born-again during the millenium - die during the millenium...???

People are quick to forget about those who are saved during the millenium.

The 2nd resurrection is the means by which God brings every sinner to His throne, to give them their day in court, to be judged according to their deeds, to justly confirm their eternal destination (Rev 20;11-15)

God destroys the current heavens and earth, resurrects the wicked for judgment, and then creates new heavens and earth.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Is that supposed to include those who - are born during the millenium - are born-again during the millenium - die during the millenium...???

People are quick to forget about those who are saved during the millenium.

are you taking into account that the thousand year reign takes place in the heavenly kingdom ? While tribulation is happening on earth ?

“And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them.

Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:10-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬


see how there is peace and the kingdom established already in heaven , and also inhabited by those who overcame by the gospel ?

while the earth is cast into chaos and Satan begins warring against the church on earth ?

“Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭5:8-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭6:12-13‬ ‭

Satan is on earth already trying to destroy mans life inflicting massive amounts of tribulation through men in power who serve his Will to war against Christians all Over the world.

there are concentration camps in places like North Korea for Christians right now who are sold as slaves and worse. Sometimes it helps to take a world view of what’s happening when looking at revelation there are also nations where it’s illegal to own a Bible or even have a Bible app on your phone

also other nations where Christians are regularly beaten and persecuted and find no justice from authorities. Try bein a cnrirtian in a Muslim nation like Afghanistan and living openly in faith of Christ

other nations not a lot of persecution happens and we tend to only look to our own home for tribulation and persecution even martyrs still happen today thousands every year

 

[Runningman]

There is only one pre-millennial resurrection.

Pre-millennial being the keyword. Yes agreed. So I guess we agree the first resurrection is composed of two different groups? I just don’t see this distinction made frequently.

 

[GaryA]

are you taking into account that the thousand year reign takes place in the heavenly kingdom ? While tribulation is happening on earth ?

I believe the 1000-year reign of Christ is a literal physical-presence-on-earth period of time that will begin at the Second Coming of Christ.

It will be post-trib.

It will be post-Two-Witnesses.

 

[Mem]

If you back up to rev 19, the beast that causes to (worship satan by) take the mark (of the beast) is cast into the lake of fire along with the false prophet, and then rev 20 satan is bound. Who's doling out the mark at this point?

 

[Runningman]

I believe the 1000-year reign of Christ is a literal physical-presence-on-earth period of time that will begin at the Second Coming of Christ.

It will be post-trib.

It will be post-Two-Witnesses.

ahh yes me too.