Is the first resurrection divided into two groups?

[Carry_Your_Name]

Nono don’t mind brother. I’m not really worried about it though myself I don’t see it the same as you do on that one

It matters a lot. Incorrect understanding could be a stumbling block. since the Holy Spirit is the promised Helper. Since the word "ghost" is still frequently used in modern English, often as a verb to describe the status that all your communication with somebody is suddenly cut off as if you've never existed like a ghost. Nevertheless, it bothers me less when it's put in a hymn like When I Think About the Lord with this line - "how you filled me with the Holy Ghost/how you healed me to the uttermost."

 

[Pilgrimshope]

It matters a lot. Incorrect understanding could be a stumbling block. since the Holy Spirit is the promised Helper. Since the word "ghost" is still frequently used in modern English, often as a verb to describe the status that all your communication with somebody is suddenly cut off as if you've never existed like a ghost. Nevertheless, it bothers me less when it's put in a hymn like When I Think About the Lord with this line - "how you filled me with the Holy Ghost/how you healed me to the uttermost."

yeah I understand it matters a lot to you , I’m saying I don’t see it the way you do so it doesn’t affect me either way. I’ve read the niv and kjv I don’t see the issue myself.

but yes I’m clear that it matters to you I would say you should probably avoid kjv

the spirit we receive is the spirit Jesus carried in the flesh when he lived , sent to God at the cross when he died and sent back from heaven when he arrived there . It’s what makes us the sons

“And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭4:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

yeah I understand it matters a lot to you , I’m saying I don’t see it the way you do so it doesn’t affect me either way. I’ve read the niv and kjv I don’t see the issue myself.

but yes I’m clear that it matters to you I would say you should probably avoid kjv

the spirit we receive is the spirit Jesus carried in the flesh when he lived , sent to God at the cross when he died and sent back from heaven when he arrived there . It’s what makes us the sons

“And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭4:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Never had one to begin with. Many passages in modern versions are hard enough to understand, let along ancient version.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Never had one to begin with. Many passages in modern versions are hard enough to understand, let along ancient version.

yeah I used to prefer the original niv myself , I have a 110 year old kjv that my grandmother had one of those old family bibles with all the references and study guides also a brief history of the Jews ect

I love it now days but still Have my original niv from 1981.

I have a deep love for the antiquated language is probably the difference I don’t think anyone needs to be kjv only but we should choose a Version we understand and learn from it seems to shape our preference for the terms we read and hear and like

one things that’s evident to me is 110 years ago when my kjv was printed , they cared more about learning concepts in scripture especially the repetitive ones that re occur from genesis to revelation
That open up so much when we begin to realize the whole Bible relates to Jesus and the gospel

but I think it’s just a preference thing brother. They mostly all have the exact same message just use different words to express it

I haven’t read every version and there are a few I don’t like also so I understand what your saying

I would caution about the new niv though it’s constantly being revised and revised the message In it is actually changing a lot

 

[DavidTree]

Unfortunately most Jews are not joined together with Christ, they're still waiting for their own Elijah and messiah, so it's more like "What man has separated, let God joined together."

No one comes to the Father but thru Christ and no one comes to Christ except the Father draw them.

Elohim is the Author of Salvation, HE always has been, and it has always been His Election by GRACE.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

yeah we have to also follow what’s priorly said in those chapters to see how God identifies his people

“Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God:

but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭9:6-8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:26-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

just as gentile and Jew aren’t seperated any Jew would Have to convert to the new birth found in Christ and the gospel like all the early church did being former Jews

ishmael was a son of Abraham the first born , but he was cast out of abrahams house and received no inheritance . Isaac was counted as the only begotten though he was the second born bekng the son of promise .

God identifies Israel through the spirit not the flesh since they crucified the messiah in the flesh

Yeah, of course, all are one in Christ. Red yellow black or white, all are precious in God's sight. But we're talking about the mission field here. Unfortunately, although Christianity started from the Jews at first, it will finish with the Jews at last.

 

[DavidTree]

Yeah, of course, all are one in Christ. Red yellow black or white, all are precious in God's sight. But we're talking about the mission field here. Unfortunately, although Christianity started from the Jews at first, it will finish with the Jews at last.

No and No

Read Genesis and then Galatians and Romans

Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, who is and was and is to come—the Almighty

“Behold, I am coming soon, and My reward is with Me, to give to each one according to what he has done.
I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.”

14Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life and may enter the city by its gates. 15But outside are the dogs, the sorcerers, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

16“I, Jesus, have sent My angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the bright Morning Star.”

The Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” Let the one who hears say, “Come!” And let the one who is thirsty come, and the one who desires the water of life drink freely.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Yeah, of course, all are one in Christ. Red yellow black or white, all are precious in God's sight. But we're talking about the mission field here. Unfortunately, although Christianity started from the Jews at first, it will finish with the Jews at last.

yah what I’m saying is they will have to convert and believe the same gospel that began in Jerusalem

I believe many will near the end but it’s just my own speculation . There’s no different message coming is what I’m saying for Jew and gentile

“how that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; that the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭3:3, 5-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

that at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

but now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; and that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

and came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; and are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2:11-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I’m only saying jew or gentile there is only one way to belong to God ever that’s going to come

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

No and No

Read Genesis and then Galatians and Romans

Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, who is and was and is to come—the Almighty

“Behold, I am coming soon, and My reward is with Me, to give to each one according to what he has done.
I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.”

14Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life and may enter the city by its gates. 15But outside are the dogs, the sorcerers, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

16“I, Jesus, have sent My angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the bright Morning Star.”

The Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” Let the one who hears say, “Come!” And let the one who is thirsty come, and the one who desires the water of life drink freely.

What's the point of quoting all these verses? I don't get it.

yah what I’m saying is they will have to convert and believe the same gospel that began in Jerusalem

I believe many will near the end but it’s just my own speculation . There’s no different message coming is what I’m saying for Jew and gentile

“how that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; that the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭3:3, 5-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

that at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

but now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; and that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

and came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; and are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2:11-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I’m only saying jew or gentile there is only one way to belong to God ever that’s going to come

I believe messianic Jews will lead the world to the true Christ in the midst of many false christs. Some of them have unique insights, they know the OT in original Hebrew, and they can see the forest from the trees.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

What's the point of quoting all these verses? I don't get it.


I believe messianic Jews will lead the world to the true Christ in the midst of many false christs. Some of them have unique insights, they know the OT in original Hebrew, and they can see the forest from the trees.

the true Christ ? You don’t believe the Bible leads people to him ?

also isn’t their misunderstanding of the ot scriptures what blinded them to Christ ?

 

[DavidTree]

What's the point of quoting all these verses? I don't get it.


I believe messianic Jews will lead the world to the true Christ in the midst of many false christs. Some of them have unique insights, they know the OT in original Hebrew, and they can see the forest from the trees.

"Christianity started from the Jews at first" = No it did not.
"It will finish with the Jews at last" = No it will not

Review Post #247 and you will find the answers i the Scriptures as mentioned.

There has always been and will be His Election by Grace.
Christianity began in Genesis before the Jews were created.
The Israel of God is not according to the flesh - Romans ch9
But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel, 7nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, “In Isaac your seed shall be called.” 8That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed. 9For this is the word of promise: “At this time I will come and Sarah shall have a son.”

The earthbound Jewish nation will not be restored until His Second Coming = Matthew 23:37
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing! See! Your house is left to you desolate;
for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’

Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. Isaiah 44:6

I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, who is and was and is to come—the Almighty = Revelation 1:7

REVELATION chapter 22
“Behold, I am coming soon, and My reward is with Me, to give to each one according to what he has done.
I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.”

“I, Jesus, have sent My angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the bright Morning Star.”

The Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” Let the one who hears say, “Come!” And let the one who is thirsty come, and the one who desires the water of life drink freely.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

yeah I used to prefer the original niv myself , I have a 110 year old kjv that my grandmother had one of those old family bibles with all the references and study guides also a brief history of the Jews ect

I love it now days but still Have my original niv from 1981.

I have a deep love for the antiquated language is probably the difference I don’t think anyone needs to be kjv only but we should choose a Version we understand and learn from it seems to shape our preference for the terms we read and hear and like

one things that’s evident to me is 110 years ago when my kjv was printed , they cared more about learning concepts in scripture especially the repetitive ones that re occur from genesis to revelation
That open up so much when we begin to realize the whole Bible relates to Jesus and the gospel

but I think it’s just a preference thing brother. They mostly all have the exact same message just use different words to express it

I haven’t read every version and there are a few I don’t like also so I understand what your saying

I would caution about the new niv though it’s constantly being revised and revised the message In it is actually changing a lot

To be honest I have only scratched the surface when it comes to the understanding of the Holy Spirit. In my experience, it's perceived as an angel on my shoulder or a moral compass, it convicts me of my sin and regulates my behavior, but that's just the tip of the iceburg, the promised Helper is definitely more than that.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

To be honest I have only scratched the surface when it comes to the understanding of the Holy Spirit. In my experience, it's perceived as an angel on my shoulder or a moral compass, it convicts me of my sin and regulates my behavior, but that's just the tip of the iceburg, the promised Helper is definitely more than that.

yeah I think we’re never going to fully understand it all until we’re home and given the full knowledge mentioned on Corinthians 13.

the place to hear what the spirit says is to look into Jesus doctrine he began preaching when he received the Holy Spirit from heaven. That’s really the holy spirits words , and why he will always remind us of Jesus words in the gospel.

the best thing we have on scripture regarding understanding the Holy Spirit is the gospel of John.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

the true Christ ? You don’t believe the Bible leads people to him ?

also isn’t their misunderstanding of the ot scriptures what blinded them to Christ ?

Come on, you know what I mean. There're a Republican Jesus for family values and free market economy, a Democrat Jesus for social justice and welfare for the poor, a prosperity Jesus for wealth and health, a New Age Jesus that peels off the layers of shame and fear to discover your "inner goddess", a muslim Jesus against all infidels, and the portrayal of Jesus on all kinds of Jesus movies and paintings ... do I need to go on? That's why Jesus warned that many false christs will rise in His name, even the elect could be deceived.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

"Christianity started from the Jews at first" = No it did not.
"It will finish with the Jews at last" = No it will not

Why not?

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek." - Rom. 1:16

"For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in." - Rom. 11:25

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Come on, you know what I mean. There're a Republican Jesus for family values and free market economy, a Democrat Jesus for social justice and welfare for the poor, a prosperity Jesus for wealth and health, a New Age Jesus that peels off the layers of shame and fear to discover your "inner goddess", a muslim Jesus against all infidels, and the portrayal of Jesus on all kinds of Jesus movies and paintings ... do I need to go on? That's why Jesus warned that many false christs will rise in His name, even the elect could be deceived.

lol
I actually didn’t know what you meant which is why I asked . I’m usually pretty strait forward brother if I’m asking it’s because I’m not clear. It’s never a veiled insult

Democrat and republican ? I’m not really much into politics since the 80s So I’m not really keen on what your getting at

what do you mean when you say messianic jews ?

 

[DavidTree]

Why not?

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek." - Rom. 1:16

"For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in." - Rom. 11:25

AMEN - AGREE 100% - AMEN

There has always been a remnant by Grace of both the Jew and the Gentile.

This is why the Scripture says "what God has joined together let no man separate"

God has permanently joined Jew & Gentile together in His Body - the Body of Christ.

Revelation does not say, teach or prophesy that the Body of Christ, His Bride, is raptured and then Jews go around as missionaries.

Revelation does tell us that His Bride, His Elect , His Saints = Jew & Gentile in Christ will be on earth as missionaries until His Coming.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

AMEN - AGREE 100% - AMEN

I think just a thought that as the Jews began to preach the gospel from Jerusalem to all nations of the Gentiles , later it’s the Gentiles who preach it to the Jews more so now days and will eventually bring some to the faith as in the beginning they brought Gentiles to the faith.

like I’m saying it’s just my own thought but I see sort of a circle back near the end focused on the Jews having the true gospel preached to them by Gentiles who understand the fulfillment of prophecy regarding the messiah

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

lol
I actually didn’t know what you meant which is why I asked . I’m usually pretty strait forward brother if I’m asking it’s because I’m not clear. It’s never a veiled insult

Democrat and republican ? I’m not really much into politics since the 80s So I’m not really keen on what your getting at

what do you mean when you say messianic jews ?

I can't say that Bible led me to Jesus, because it was usually friends and family that initially lead people to Him, then music and sermons. And when you listen to music and sermons, you get all these different ideas of Jesus. That's because we all have our own deeply rooted views and values - including all of these above that I listed and you LOLed at. Most people tend to read the bible through the lens of these views and values instead of re-examining their views and values through the lens of the bible. In other words, they're trying to fit God into the box they've built, even though God was out of the box which He personally instructed Moses to build. With a closed mind, you always look for affirmation when you think you are looking for information. Therefore, these versions of Jesus are developed as a marketing strategy to cater to different audiences.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

1 John 17:2-3

“And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:20‬ ‭