I have many good friends that are homosexuals and worry about their faith. How do I witness to them without coming
off as 'holier than thou' and threatening our friendship?
off as 'holier than thou' and threatening our friendship?
Does God forgive anything--ex: homosexuals?
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There are many resources available to help answer your question. Here are a couple to get you started.
Becket Cook, a former homosexual, has some material you may find useful. Below is an episode from his show.
Another resource is Melissa Dougherty’s interview with a former lesbian named Jen that I think is insightful.
Becket Cook, a former homosexual, has some material you may find useful. Below is an episode from his show.
Another resource is Melissa Dougherty’s interview with a former lesbian named Jen that I think is insightful.
I wouldn't worry about a person's behavior. I'd be more concerned with the condition of their heart. Behavior is irrelevant (I mean, let's be realistic . . . talking to a murderer could be dangerous for your health!)
If you spread the Gospel according to the Gospel and not according to behavior, then it will be the exact same presentation each and every time (depending on the amount of time that you're given to explain it).
When I am given the chance to "teach" the Gospel, it means that I start off with three basic descriptions of the Gospel, and they are:
1) The Purpose of Christ
2) The Work of Christ
3) The Effect of Christ
If you'll note, the above is NOT the Gospel, but a mere description of it . . . they are essentially nothing but chapter titles of a potential book. But when we explain these three elements, now "we're" actually teaching the Gospel.
So, what is the Purpose of Christ? Basically, it is to Redeem God's Holy Elect from the Adamic Curse. So, an explanation of Adam and Eve would be helpful, and that can be done by discussing Romans chapter 5, where Paul covers the Curse that was placed upon all creation because of what they did. So, we'd need to include this primary concept, and then, of course, we'd have to know Scripture enough to discuss Redemption. John 3:16-17 is a great example to use to show the Purpose of Christ. To explain the Purpose of Christ, we have to be able to address what Paul was referring to when he wrote:
Ephesians 3:9-11 NLT - "I was chosen to explain to everyone this mysterious plan that God, the Creator of all things, had kept secret from the beginning. God's purpose in all this was to use the church to display his wisdom in its rich variety to all the unseen rulers and authorities in the heavenly places. This was his eternal plan, which he carried out through Christ Jesus our Lord."
So, obviously, we need to understand this Plan. Most assuredly, when Phillip entered the chariot of the Eunuch, he explained these things to him. If sharing the Gospel could be done in a mere moment, there would be no need to enter the chariot. So, we need to know what this Plan is that was carried out by Christ.
So what is the Work of Christ? Four basic things:
1) The Circumcision of Christ
2) Granting the ability and desire to Turn from sinful behavior and Repent
3) Jesus sends the Holy Spirit to guide, lead, and change the human heart (Transformation)
4) The debt of sin is paid by Christ on the cross. And in believing in the Power that raised Christ from the dead, one is made Right with God the Father.
And again, we have to be able to demonstrate these four points through Scripture . . . of which there is MUCH!
And what is left? We must be able to explain the Holy Effect of Christ. As already mentioned, there must be a Transformation of character marked with a change of behavior. Romans 12:2 speaks clearly of this Holy Transformation, but it is also important to note that no one can Love another as described in 1 Corinthians, chapter 13, the Love Chapter unless their hearts have been reborn, regenerated, and Circumcised by Christ. It is impossible to think and behave in the ways described in that amazing chapter. The Holy Effect of Christ includes the idea of Loving not only those who we call Brother and Sister in Christ, but those who state that they hate us . . . our enemies.
So as you can see, according to what has been offered above, does it really matter if a person is attracted to the same sex or not? What does any particular sin have to do with the Gospel? If one sin has been committed, then it is equivalent to all sins being committed, for corruption is corruption.
Finally, I have spent thousands of hours working with a man who was attracted to other men all throughout his life . . . from when he was a little boy to a man in his 80's . . . he was attracted to other men and male children. By teaching the Circumcision of Christ over and over again to him, all of his behaviors changed; even the things he said about men and male boys . . . his speech changed! And even though this man was once a Sunday School teacher for youth, he came to understand that he never Truly understood the Gospel until we began our studies (and eventual co-writings). But as said, over time, he changed completely! And more, he finally confirmed that he was no longer attracted to the same sex. It can be done, and you can do it! All that you have to do is become a "Master" of the Gospel, and in by doing so, you can talk to anyone about the remarkable Story of God . . . the True Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Exodus 33:19 KJV - "And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy."
L
Live4Him2
Guest
Here's a good principle to follow:
John chapter 16
[7] Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
[8] And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
[9] Of sin, because they believe not on me;
[10] Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
[11] Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
Jesus said that the Holy Spirit ("the Comforter") would "reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment" when he comes.
With such being the case, if we really want the Holy Spirit to do the same, then we should give him something to work with in our evangelistic efforts by broaching these topics ourselves.
Trying to sneak something in through the back door, so to speak, or in through a broader way is never going to work.
If we love people, then we'll tell them the truth.
As a word of encouragement, not too long ago, I worked with a lesbian who was actually "married" (not in God's eyes) to another woman. A co-worker of mine and I took turns sharing the gospel with her, and she repented (she divorced the woman), and got saved.
In fact, I attended her water baptism just about two months ago.
Ultimately this depends on your friends' philosophy of life - a relationship with God for the next life, or eat, drink and be merry in this life? It's either one or the other. Notice that in Leviticus, homosexuality was an abomination punishable by death, but in the NT, specifically in 1 Cor. 6:9, it says that the unrighteous, including homosexuals, will not "inherit the kingdom of God" in the next life, but they can have all the fun in this world, they can cash off the reward life the prodigal son if that's all they want. That father didn't slap the boy in the face, he gave him his portion and sent him off. But whether they eventually come to their senses or not, that's up to them. We all know that homosexual relationship is highly unstable, regret and emptiness later in life are almost guaranteed.
C
ChristianTonyB
Guest
We know that God regards same sex sexual relationships as abominations. Having that knowledge doesn't give us a right to condemn people ensared by such immoral behaviour of course, that's solely in God's court.
If anyone considers themselves a follower of Christ yet is involved in a homosexual sexual relationship of any kind, they're fooling themselves, and I tell them outright that is so, and have no further association with them unless they repent.
For unbelievers, we are taught to walk uprightly (in a chaste manner), towards them. Jesus and His apostles interacted with sinners of all kinds, but He and they wouldn't have allowed themselves to become close friends of homosexuals or lesbians and the like, in case those on the inside and outside mistook that as some kind of approval of such abominable behaviour. For me, I treat them cordially, but distance myself from them when I think I've exhausted any outreach attempt.
If anyone considers themselves a follower of Christ yet is involved in a homosexual sexual relationship of any kind, they're fooling themselves, and I tell them outright that is so, and have no further association with them unless they repent.
For unbelievers, we are taught to walk uprightly (in a chaste manner), towards them. Jesus and His apostles interacted with sinners of all kinds, but He and they wouldn't have allowed themselves to become close friends of homosexuals or lesbians and the like, in case those on the inside and outside mistook that as some kind of approval of such abominable behaviour. For me, I treat them cordially, but distance myself from them when I think I've exhausted any outreach attempt.
Then you wrote:
How many people come crawling back to you after you've "condemned" them from your life?
Mark 2:16 NKJV - "And when the scribes and Pharisees saw Him eating with the tax collectors and sinners, they said to His disciples, "How is it that He eats and drinks with tax collectors and sinners?"
Because being a witness shouldn't be about being focused on their sin, but rather on God's righteousness?
Granted an individuals sins may come up, but that should be secondary. Not primary, nor the focus. Don't highlight their personal sins. Sin is sin.
Remember, even if they were straight they'd be just as hellbound.
Thanks for your response and:
it's great that God put the right words in your and your co-worker's mouth to have a purposeful impact on this woman and change her thinking away from the wrong ways to live and toward a life with Christ.
L
Live4Him2
Guest
It was definitely a group effort.
My other co-worker, a female who worked in the same department as the now-former lesbian, initially did the planting.
I later did the watering, and God alone gave the increase.
My own experience with both homosexuals and lesbians has shown me that their sexual sins are oftentimes merely "branches", and not really "the root" cause for their sins.
For example, I personally know one former homosexual who was sexually molested by his own brother as a child. That's what ultimately led him into a homosexual lifestyle, and he has since been born again. He's now married to a woman, and they have 5 children together.
Also, this former lesbian had tremendous issues with rejection. She had not only faced severe rejection from family members, but also from men throughout her lifetime. When this seemingly kind and compassionate woman showed up (the woman that she was "married" to), she embraced her. In other words, it was pretty much a case of looking for love in all the wrong places.
I actually dated a woman who was a former prostitute. In her case, she was sexually molested by one of her mother's boyfriends when she was 4 years old. A lot of other horrific things happened to her as well as a child, and she ultimately wound up in a life of prostitution (from which she's since repented).
I also have a Christian friend whose son has undergone a sex-change operation. If this wasn't bad enough, he's literally married to a lesbian. Meditate on that for a minute. In his son's case, he was always jealous of the affection that his parents showed his baby sister. He oftentimes told his parents that he wished he had been born a girl, and now...
Anyhow, my point is that there are oftentimes unseen and deep-rooted reasons why people fall into certain sinful lifestyles, and we must be sensitive to the Spirit of God who can help us to see these things for ourselves. If we don't, and if we just harp on the external sin itself, then we may not ever truly be able to help people such as these...and there are multitudes of them.
A
Avery
Guest
Did Jesus waste His time going after the one lost sheep that separated itself from the flock?
All sheep look just about the same. Who knows which one is which since we cannot look into the heart. I have been treated as you describe and it is very painful. And no, I am not a lesbian. Perhaps Jesus should have condemned that woman the religious leaders threw at Jesus feet?
Sin does not happen in a vacuum. I don't have answers for all the situations on this planet other than just one. But I am pretty sure walking rigidly away from everyone who sins as we say we never would, is not the answer. Sin is a contagion but it is not a hopeless situation. When you walk away, do you at least explain to a person why you are doing so?
first off telling the truth is love. drunkness, sexual sin, fornication, adultery, and homosexuality those who Practice such things will not inherit the Kingdom of God. There is no such thing as a "gay Christian". they are to repent and turn away from that sin as all sin. Jesus did not save us in our sins Jesus saved us from our Sins. We are to flee sexual sin as the word of God says to do.
A
Avery
Guest
I believe that Romans 1 tells us that homosexual sin is the example used to describe the ultimate rebellion men and women are capable of when they reject the revelation of God.
That means to me that it is a worse sin than others.
I believe that Sodom and Gomorrah is an example that this kind of sin will receive judgment even in this life.
I believe it disrespectful to God to soften our disgust toward this heinous sin. We must not compromise with this evil generation that wants to normalize it. IT IS NOT NORMAL OR OK.
I believe that Christians should preach the Gospel the same way no matter who they are talking to. All sins must be repented of and we don't focus on individual sins when we preach the Gospel. The people ready to repent already know what the Holy Spirit is convicting them of.
Homosexuals can be forgiven if they repent and believe on Jesus, but not if they don't. Don't entertain an argument with anyone who claims to believe in Jesus and claims to be a homosexual at the same time. Just keep preaching repentance as you would to any other sinner who claimed to believe in Jesus while being a drunk at the same time, or any other obvious sin.
We don't need a different message for every person who claims to have a relationship with God when they really don't. We preach the Gospel of repentance and shake the dust off and move on when they reject and resist it.
My spirit is greatly grieved by the trend among some Christians to appeal to the popular crowds and pretend like homosexual sin is no worse than any other sin. I think fire balls from heaven are coming because of that sin and history should be a warning to people that such a judgment is at the doors. I want to be one of those who was warning people about it before it happens instead of one of those who has to repent that they did not handle it with the seriousness that the scriptures give it.
Seriously people, some sins are worse than others. We should not be afraid to agree with the bible about that.
That means to me that it is a worse sin than others.
I believe that Sodom and Gomorrah is an example that this kind of sin will receive judgment even in this life.
I believe it disrespectful to God to soften our disgust toward this heinous sin. We must not compromise with this evil generation that wants to normalize it. IT IS NOT NORMAL OR OK.
I believe that Christians should preach the Gospel the same way no matter who they are talking to. All sins must be repented of and we don't focus on individual sins when we preach the Gospel. The people ready to repent already know what the Holy Spirit is convicting them of.
Homosexuals can be forgiven if they repent and believe on Jesus, but not if they don't. Don't entertain an argument with anyone who claims to believe in Jesus and claims to be a homosexual at the same time. Just keep preaching repentance as you would to any other sinner who claimed to believe in Jesus while being a drunk at the same time, or any other obvious sin.
We don't need a different message for every person who claims to have a relationship with God when they really don't. We preach the Gospel of repentance and shake the dust off and move on when they reject and resist it.
My spirit is greatly grieved by the trend among some Christians to appeal to the popular crowds and pretend like homosexual sin is no worse than any other sin. I think fire balls from heaven are coming because of that sin and history should be a warning to people that such a judgment is at the doors. I want to be one of those who was warning people about it before it happens instead of one of those who has to repent that they did not handle it with the seriousness that the scriptures give it.
Seriously people, some sins are worse than others. We should not be afraid to agree with the bible about that.
L
Live4Him2
Guest
Again, “branch” vs. “root”.
We read:
Romans chapter 1
[18] For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
[19] Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
[20] For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
[21] Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
[22] Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
[23] And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
[24] Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
[25] Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
[26] For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
[27] And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
[28] And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
[29] Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
[30] Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
[31] Without understanding, covenant=breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
[32] Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
Here, the “root” problem seems to be that “when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and four-footed beasts, and creeping things” (vss. 21-23).
In other words, the “root” cause was a forsaking of God and a turning to idolatry.
From there, we see a downward spiral of “give ups” (vss. 24, 26, and 28) from God unto certain types of sins.
The first “give up” seems to be heterosexual sins, and we see this displayed in scripture.
For example, the men of Israel committed whoredoms or fell into fornication with the daughters of Moab at Baalpeor as they bowed down to their false gods (Num. 25:1-3).
Jesus alluded to this in the book of Revelation when he said this to the church at Pergamos:
“But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.” (Rev. 2:14)
Jesus similarly said this to the same church:
“Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.” (Rev. 2:20)
In both instances, there is a direct correlation between idolatry and heterosexual sins or fornication.
Would it be wise to just focus in on the sexual sins while ignoring its apparent “root” cause of idolatry?
Personally, I don’t think that it would be.
I mean, look at our own society today.
Excuse my plainness of speech, but I’ve oftentimes heard people say “F*ck the binary” or “F*ck this whole two gender only thing”.
If they don’t believe that there is a God who “created them male and female” (Gen. 1:27, 5:2, Matt. 19:4, Mark 10:6), then are they really going to care about anything that we have to say about sexually perverse sins?
My point is that we need to lay the axe at the root of the tree, so to speak, and the root problem is that people are in rebellion against their Creator, and many of them deny that there even is a Creator (atheists).
Anyhow, the next “give up” in Romans 1 is that of homosexuality/lesbianism, but, again, this isn’t the “root” of the problem.
Finally, as bad as homosexuality/lesbianism is (and it’s very bad), and as serious as the judgments surrounding Sodom and Gomorrah were (and they were very serious), let’s not forget that God literally wiped out all of this earth’s inhabitants except for 8 people in the time of Noah’s flood.
Was homosexuality/lesbianism the prominent sin back then?
Scripture does not seem to indicate that it was.
With such being the case, I’d hold off on this whole “homosexuality is the most heinous sin” thing if I were you.
A
Avery
Guest
In the context of Romans 1 I think it makes it clear that it is the example of a progression of rebellion down to it's shocking results. Homosexual sin and a reprobate mind.
So when kids come home from school and say that they heard all these noble things about being homosexual and ask what do you believe, it is the perfect time to pull out Romans 1 and tell them boldly that experimenting with it is very likely to result in being lost for all eternity with no desire to repent. A reprobate mind. Explain what reprobate means.
And then read the Roman passage. Let them decide if what they just read suggests that homosexual sin might be one of the worst sins. They are probably going to at least get the idea that this is nothing to wink at. When they read it for themselves they will probably not get the message, "it is not worse than any other sin" That is probably not what they will say this passage teaches.
So we should not say that either. Let us not make that statement since it really gives them a green light if we say that.
Let the intended message in this text Terrify them. Scare them. Make them tremble. Don't try and soften it if they tell you that this is terrifying. When they understand what a reprobate mind means, and if it makes them afraid of the thought that they could ever get to such a hardened conscious that they could not be saved, don't soften it for them. Let this passage do the work of planting the fear of God in them that it was intended to.
If they don't care or don't believe it, at least you showed them what the bible says and told them the truth and they cannot hate you later when they ask why you were afraid to tell them the truth.
Kids need some prophets who will declare the word of the Lord today before it is too late. Judgment is coming. Woe to those teachers that are tempting the children with this, one of the most heinous of rebellious sins.
It would be better for those teachers to have a millstone tied around their necks and to be cast into the sea than to tempt one of these children to sin the sin of homosexuality. If we don't put a stop to it, God will intervene in this life. It is one of the flash points in history where God choses to judge before the Last Day. I see the makings of a perfect storm of the judgment of God being unleashed in this life over this issue in the public schools. We should all be warning just as Jeremiah, Isaiah, Ezekiel would be. We cannot treat this as the same as all other sins. It is an extra level of rebellion.
I feel like I am repeating myself so I will quit.
L
Live4Him2
Guest
I never said anything about softening up anything.
Believe me, there is literally no one on the face of this earth who believes in and teaches/preaches the fear of the Lord more than I do.
Furthermore, I actually have three teen-aged children (I'm divorced)...two of which are girls and one boy.
I've had it out with my two daughters on this very topic MANY TIMES.
Ultimately, after listening to them spew everything that they've been indoctrinated into possibly accepting or believing, I've told them that those who promote or embrace homosexuality/lesbianism/transgenderism/etc. are antichrists in that they're literally opposing the very teachings/design of their Creator, Jesus Christ.
Again, no softening of the message or tickling anyone's ears at my end.
That said, ALL SIN is motivated by the spirit of antichrist.
If they will acknowledge that their way is incredibly evil and that God has judged them and God's judgment is correct, and turn away from it, then yes, they can be forgiven and even spared from the Sword which the Lord Jesus has appointed against their society for such things.