Trinity Questions
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I like all that you wrote . . . until the final sentence. haha
What do you mean by stating that Jesus became idle once He became human? Jesus was likely Spiritually Circumcising more hearts in the New Testament than He was in the Old Testament (before He died on the cross).
What do you mean by stating that Jesus became idle once He became human? Jesus was likely Spiritually Circumcising more hearts in the New Testament than He was in the Old Testament (before He died on the cross).
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That's a good point -
The thrones of the elders are not around two thrones, one for God and one for The Lamb.
They are around one throne, which is "the" singular throne of God and of the Lamb. Gods throne is the throne of The Lamb; the throne of The Lamb is the throne of God - as we should expect
Revelation 4:2-4
Immediately I was in the Spirit; and behold, a throne set in heaven, and [One] sat on the throne. And He who sat there was like a jasper and a sardius stone in appearance; and [there was] a rainbow around the throne, in appearance like an emerald. Around the throne [were] twenty-four thrones, and on the thrones I saw twenty-four elders sitting, clothed in white robes; and they had crowns of gold on their heads.
The thrones of the elders are not around two thrones, one for God and one for The Lamb.
They are around one throne, which is "the" singular throne of God and of the Lamb. Gods throne is the throne of The Lamb; the throne of The Lamb is the throne of God - as we should expect
Revelation 4:2-4
Immediately I was in the Spirit; and behold, a throne set in heaven, and [One] sat on the throne. And He who sat there was like a jasper and a sardius stone in appearance; and [there was] a rainbow around the throne, in appearance like an emerald. Around the throne [were] twenty-four thrones, and on the thrones I saw twenty-four elders sitting, clothed in white robes; and they had crowns of gold on their heads.
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Dan 7: 13-14 I saw in the night visions, and behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of Days, and they brought Him near before Him. And there was given Him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, ...
Matt 25: 31 When the Son of man shall come in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then shall He sit upon the throne of His glory:
Dan 7: 9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of Days did sit, ...
Matt 5: 34-35 But I say unto you, swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne: nor by the earth; for it is His footstool;
Matt 19: 28 And Jesus said unto them, ...when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of His glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Matt 23: 22 And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by Him that sitteth thereon.
Luke 1: 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto Him the throne of His Father David:
Luke 22: 29-30 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me; that ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Matt 25: 31 When the Son of man shall come in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then shall He sit upon the throne of His glory:
Dan 7: 9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of Days did sit, ...
Matt 5: 34-35 But I say unto you, swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne: nor by the earth; for it is His footstool;
Matt 19: 28 And Jesus said unto them, ...when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of His glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Matt 23: 22 And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by Him that sitteth thereon.
Luke 1: 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto Him the throne of His Father David:
Luke 22: 29-30 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me; that ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Jesus said:
John 10:30 KJV - "I and my Father are one."
Revelation 1:8 NKJV - "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End," says the Lord, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."
Paul said:
1 Timothy 3:16b NKJV - "God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory."
John 10:30 KJV - "I and my Father are one."
Revelation 1:8 NKJV - "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End," says the Lord, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."
Paul said:
1 Timothy 3:16b NKJV - "God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory."
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These Scriptures are BEAUTIFUL TRUTH for the LORD is ONE with the FATHER and ALL THREE are ONE Eternal ELOHIM.
When Jesus was on earth HE was Immanuel = "GOD with us" and HE was also, at the Same time ONE with HIS FATHER in Heaven.
No one can comprehend this.
When Jesus was on earth, in the flesh as a man, HE prayed to His FATHER in Heaven.
This is where jw's get tripped up as well as those who think HE is praying to Himself.
When Jesus was on earth HE was Immanuel = "GOD with us" and HE was also, at the Same time ONE with HIS FATHER in Heaven.
No one can comprehend this.
When Jesus was on earth, in the flesh as a man, HE prayed to His FATHER in Heaven.
This is where jw's get tripped up as well as those who think HE is praying to Himself.
I agree that Jesus was [not] praying to Himself, but at the same time, He indeed was praying to Himself, but in a different form (or aspect). The Father is not the Son, nor is the Father the Spirit . . . they are three distinct aspects of One . . . the One God of all that is.
I'm a drummer. Only recently have I picked up the sticks to play again. In prior years, I used to be pretty good, for I played every day for over ten years. My mind knows exactly what my body should do to ensure that the sticks don't fly out of my hands. My mind knows how the drums should sound so that when I play, there is an emotional texture to the sounds that I create. But without recent years of practice, I find that my body is unable to play as it once did. My mind is "there" - my mind knows exactly what the sounds that I should be able to create, but my body is not participating. I experience frustrations with my hands and feet, for they are not doing what they once did. What do I do? I talk to my body and say, "Come!! You know what to do . . . why can't you do this?"
When my mind speaks to my body, is my body not me? My mind, or, the god of my person speaks to my body, are they not one? Of course, my body is me, and so is my mind. I am made up of three aspects, my mind, body, and of course, we have a spirit (hopefully not one of timidity). My body is me; my mind is me, but they are clearly not the same thing. But when one aspect of me speaks to another, the one aspect is clearly speaking to itself. And, at times . . . my body speaks to me, conveying messages of pain and pleasure and even the manufacture of sounds. What makes music from the drums? Is it my mind or is it my body? Without the body, the drums cannot make sounds. So who is responsible for the music that is made? Is it my mind or my body? Which should take responsibility for it all? If I say that my mind takes full credit, then I deny the necessity of my body. If I deny my mind and only give credit to my body, and I not negligent?
Early in this thread, I presented this idea and it was shot down. So be it. That said, there is no doubt that God gave us three aspects to ourselves so that He could demonstrate Himself in how we are to view the Trinity . . . the Nature of God. And of course; I admit that I could be wrong, but to date, and in my opinion, there is no greater way to express the Trinity other than by looking at ourselves in how He has created us to be and exist.
Jesus, who is God manifested in the Flesh, was praying to God as He is in Heaven. They are One, but One is physical, One is Spirit, One is the "Command Center." They are all separate aspects of One God just as our mind, spirit and body are all aspects of one "person."
I'm a drummer. Only recently have I picked up the sticks to play again. In prior years, I used to be pretty good, for I played every day for over ten years. My mind knows exactly what my body should do to ensure that the sticks don't fly out of my hands. My mind knows how the drums should sound so that when I play, there is an emotional texture to the sounds that I create. But without recent years of practice, I find that my body is unable to play as it once did. My mind is "there" - my mind knows exactly what the sounds that I should be able to create, but my body is not participating. I experience frustrations with my hands and feet, for they are not doing what they once did. What do I do? I talk to my body and say, "Come!! You know what to do . . . why can't you do this?"
When my mind speaks to my body, is my body not me? My mind, or, the god of my person speaks to my body, are they not one? Of course, my body is me, and so is my mind. I am made up of three aspects, my mind, body, and of course, we have a spirit (hopefully not one of timidity). My body is me; my mind is me, but they are clearly not the same thing. But when one aspect of me speaks to another, the one aspect is clearly speaking to itself. And, at times . . . my body speaks to me, conveying messages of pain and pleasure and even the manufacture of sounds. What makes music from the drums? Is it my mind or is it my body? Without the body, the drums cannot make sounds. So who is responsible for the music that is made? Is it my mind or my body? Which should take responsibility for it all? If I say that my mind takes full credit, then I deny the necessity of my body. If I deny my mind and only give credit to my body, and I not negligent?
Early in this thread, I presented this idea and it was shot down. So be it. That said, there is no doubt that God gave us three aspects to ourselves so that He could demonstrate Himself in how we are to view the Trinity . . . the Nature of God. And of course; I admit that I could be wrong, but to date, and in my opinion, there is no greater way to express the Trinity other than by looking at ourselves in how He has created us to be and exist.
Jesus, who is God manifested in the Flesh, was praying to God as He is in Heaven. They are One, but One is physical, One is Spirit, One is the "Command Center." They are all separate aspects of One God just as our mind, spirit and body are all aspects of one "person."
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In Mat 28:19, Jesus Christ proves that God is a Trinity: "19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit". Notice He does not say "names", as of three different beings, but "In the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" as of Three Co-Equal Persons Who are One God. This is historical Trinitarian Orthodoxy.
St. Augustine comments on this passage: "O Lord God, we firmly believe You are a Trinity. For Truth (Jesus) would never have said "Be Baptized in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" unless you were a Trinity. Nor would He have commanded us to be baptized in the Name of one who was not Lord God. Hence, we believe the Three Persons are one Lord God". May the Triune God Bless.
St. Augustine comments on this passage: "O Lord God, we firmly believe You are a Trinity. For Truth (Jesus) would never have said "Be Baptized in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" unless you were a Trinity. Nor would He have commanded us to be baptized in the Name of one who was not Lord God. Hence, we believe the Three Persons are one Lord God". May the Triune God Bless.
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