Is the human soul immortal?

[Pilgrimshope]

That did not really address the question I asked... Though verses were or have been quoted that
speak of judgment on/in the last day. If judgment is future, why would anyone be in hell now?

because they died in thier sins rejecting the gospel sister

“I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:24‬ ‭

in other words they rejected the gospel

“and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭24:47‬ ‭KJV‬‬

they rejected this so they enter condemnation

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and so they are bound here

“Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:28-29‬ ‭

that’s why it says thier judged by thier works they reject the remission of sins and so when they die , they enter condemnation and aren’t those who receive remission of sins that’s reserved for those who accept the gospel it lasts until the end of the world

“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we can either accept the gospel and be saved now from the condemnation and death or we can be raised up the last day and judged according to the same word preached to all nations

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Everything about it states it’s a parable. The writing style. The metaphysics of it. The placement of it in scripture. It’s clearly using his friend Lazarus and his enemy Cephas as its characters.

People should google Lazarus and the rich man parable.

if you conclude it’s a parable what’s he teaching if not what happens after the body dies ? Is he just talking pointlessly ? Or are parables meant to teach something spiritual ?

Even if you conclude it’s a parable whats he saying ?

“And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; and in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: for I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭16:22-28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s a warning about what happens after our short life in earth expires we can enter the kingdom or hell. In the end though hell won’t exist anymore. This happens when Jesus returns to raise those who are judged by their works done in the body who rejected Jesus now

 

[Magenta]

because they died in thier sins rejecting the gospel sister

“I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:24‬ ‭

in other words they rejected the gospel

“and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭24:47‬ ‭KJV‬‬

they rejected this so they enter condemnation

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and so they are bound here

“Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:28-29‬ ‭

that’s why it says thier judged by thier works they reject the remission of sins and so when they die , they enter condemnation and aren’t those who receive remission of sins that’s reserved for those who accept the gospel it lasts until the end of the world

“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we can either accept the gospel and be saved now from the condemnation and death or we can be raised up the last day and judged according to the same word preached to all nations

I guess what I am getting at is that hell is believed to be where people go following judgment, and judgment is future. Of course I do understand that we all go to the grave, and hell is sometimes a mistranslation of that. Also that the Lake of Fire is the final destination for unbelievers. Still, you quote verses that say resurrected to damnation, and/or shall not come into condemnation. So it seems those have not yet been damned, even though they are said by some to be in hell suffering. No biggie. I just wondered if you had considered the seeming contradiction. I don't believe the dead know anything. Scripture says as much.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I guess what I am getting at is that hell is believed to be where people go following judgment, and judgment is future. Of course I do understand that we all go to the grave, and hell is sometimes a mistranslation of that. Also that the Lake of Fire is the final destination for unbelievers. Still, you quote verses that say resurrected to damnation, and/or shall not come into condemnation. So it seems those have not yet been damned, even though they are said by some to be in hell suffering. No biggie. I just wondered if you had considered the seeming contradiction. I don't believe the dead know anything. Scripture says as much.

yeah hell is where those who die in sin rejecting Jesus go now to wait for this day. It’s not a mistranslation of the grave though

“And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; and in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: for I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭16:22-25, 27-28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I know you e read all the verses about the worm not dying and weeping and gnashing of teeth , that’s about hell. It’s where wicked people go to await them judgement others are left to sleep but as you see the rich man there was conscious while his family still lives in earth.

hell is a temporary place to hold the wicked for judgement until the last day , the lake of fire is the second permanent death.

hell isn’t the final place it’s the current place like where ole Hitler would most likely be until he’s raised up in the end to face judgement.

 

[Magenta]

yeah hell is where those who die in sin rejecting Jesus go now to wait for this day. It’s not a mistranslation of the grave though

“And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; and in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: for I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭16:22-25, 27-28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I know you e read all the verses about the worm not dying and weeping and gnashing of teeth , that’s about hell. It’s where wicked people go to await them judgement others are left to sleep but as you see the rich man there was conscious while his family still lives in earth.

hell is a temporary place to hold the wicked for judgement until the last day , the lake of fire is the second permanent death.

hell isn’t the final place it’s the current place like where ole Hitler would most likely be until he’s raised up in the end to face judgement.

Lazarus and the rich man... parable. In the midst of a slew of parables
in a chapter full of parables. Jesus taught everything in parables.

I realize not many agree with this. Scripture explicitly states the dead know nothing.

Hell is many times inserted where other words were in the original languages.

Words that initially meant different things.

 

[RR]

Since Christ came and poured out His Holy Spirit to the Apostles, HE informed them of spiritual matters pertaining to the Kingdom to Righteousness and Judgment.

We have been informed thru Scripture that we were created triune with a spirit/soul/body.
When the physical body dies only the physical body returns to the dust/grave.
The soul of man continues on to one of two places:
A.) Eternal life for those who have been washed in the Blood of Lamb slain since the foundation of the world.
B.) Sheol/Hades for the soul whose sins remain on them.
C.) there is no Babylonian/Catholic purgatory = it does not exist

The sting of Death is sin and sin brought to death both the soul of man and the physical body of man.

Therefore Death of both parts brought separation from Elohim, our Creator.

The Blood washed souls in Heaven are ALIVE, fully conscious, and with Elohim Father Elohim Son Elohim Holy Spirit right now.

The unwashed, whose souls/spirits never experienced the New Birth in Christ remain separated from Elohim in full consciousness of their agony.

All Saints are awaiting for Christ's Second Coming wherein HE first resurrects those whose bodies died when their souls lived in Him on earth.
ONLY at His Second Coming does the First Resurrection of mortal bodies put on Immortality into Glorified Bodies.
Later there will be the resurrection of the Dead who stand before the Great White Throne Judgment the Second Death.

and yet not one verse to support your views!

 

[PennEd]

Perhaps it depends on the translation?

15 Bible results for “hell” from New International Version.

23 Bible results for “hell” from King James Version.

3 Bible results for “hell” from Young's Literal Translation.

17 Bible results for “hell” from English Standard Version.

16 Bible results for “hell” from New Revised Standard Version.

That's NT only

You are aware that hades is the grave and not hell right? Based off of what you just said it’s hell is 100% of the time based off of gehenna. It’s never based off of hades. Basically only the kjv keeps maintaining that error that almost all other translations have corrected. Theologically, the grave and gehenna are two separate events. Gehenna is the death of the body and soul with no resurrection and the grave is the death of the body and soul awaiting the resurrection.

Here is the Greek word, with each NT occurrence:

10 for Hades:

https://biblehub.com/greek/86.htm

12 for Gehenna (Geenna)

https://biblehub.com/greek/1067.htm

 

[DavidTree]

and yet not one verse to support your views!

Would you like to see the Scripture for each point?
Is there a specific aspect that you would be interested in from Scripture?
Peace

 

[RR]

[QUOTE="Nehemiah6, post: 4816660, member: 258921" But it souls were perishable, how could bodies become immortal after resurrection?[/QUOTE] Ever hear of the New Creation? That's what those in the first resurrection become, a New Creation, where if faithful unto death will receive immortality.

 

[RR]

Death does not mean the end of existence. Adam died the moment he ate the forbidden fruit. All people are born dead in trespass and sin. The word translated "soul" is rendered "person" in a number of translations.

Death is more accurately thought of as eternal separation from God, who is Life itself. Jesus is the The Life. He came to give us life - because we have no life in ourselves. The second death is for those who refuse to accept God's salvation through Christ. Again, there is no evidence to say that the second death is the end of existence either.

This is a Bible forum, please use scriptures to support your views.

 

[RR]

Would you like to see the Scripture for each point?
Is there a specific aspect that you would be interested in from Scripture?
Peace

Well you made all these point and did not back ANY with scripture! So yes, I want scriptural support, this is after all a Bible forum.

 

[DavidTree]

Well you made all these point and did not back ANY with scripture! So yes, I want scriptural support, this is after all a Bible forum.

Note: We look back on OT scripture in the Light of revelation from Christ, the Apostles and the Holy Spirit.
Therefore, ancient viewpoints and religious viewpoints are not applicable whenever and wherever the Scripture clarifies the issue and subject matter at hand.

i was very busy before and was unable to take the time to post the scriptures but will do so - hopefully tonight.
Thank You Brother

 

[Magenta]

Four words are translated from the original languages to "hell" ~ Sheol, Gehenna, Tartarus, and Hades.

The Greek word Gehenna is always translated "hell" in the King James Version.
The word is used only one time in the New Testament outside the first three
Gospels, in James 3:6 where it is used metaphorically about the harm caused
by a vile human tongue. Whether Gehenna was used by Jesus to typify what
a true Hell is like may be debated. What is beyond debate is that Gehenna
was a known place on the south side of Jerusalem familiar to all who heard
Jesus speak. The word Gehenna is the Greek spelling of the Hebrew words
ge hinnom, meaning "valley of Hinnom." A quick search of a concordance
for the word Hinnom will find the 11 verses referring to this location in the
Old Testament. From these verses you will readily see the evils that happened
in this valley, and understand how it became thought of as a horrible place
by Jews. The valley of Hinnom, south of Jerusalem, was the place in ancient
times where idolatrous Israelites burned their children alive as sacrifices to
Molech and Baal. (Molech is sometimes spelled Moloch). It was also referred
to as Tophet, which means a place of fire. Gehenna is never used in the Old
Testament to mean anything other than the place outside Jerusalem with
which every Jew was familiar. source

Sheol is where even righteous people expected to go when they died.

It was simply the realm of the dead, again improperly translated as hell.

An interesting thing to note here is that Jesus is believed to have been standing
where the gates are hell were said to be located when He spoke of the gates of hell
not being able to overcome the church, which is also the first mention of the church.

There is a short but interesting read on this here (<= link ).

 

[DavidTree]

Well you made all these point and did not back ANY with scripture! So yes, I want scriptural support, this is after all a Bible forum.

Note: We look back on OT scripture in the Light of revelation from Christ, the Apostles and the Holy Spirit.
Therefore, ancient viewpoints and religious viewpoints are not applicable whenever and wherever the Scripture clarifies the issue and subject matter at hand.

Part 1 - Alive after the death of the physical body = Matthew 22:29-32

Jesus answered and said to them, “You are mistaken, not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God. For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels of God in heaven. But concerning the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was spoken to you by God, saying, ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.”

A.) No male and female marriage/copulation/reproduction in the Resurrection.

B.) The soul is alive and fully conscious after death (this passage mentions only those of Faith)

C.) Elohim(God) is not the Elohim of the dead, but the living" AND those who are ALIVE are Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and all who are Faith = those whom Elohim(God) calls/elects.

 

[DavidTree]

Four words are translated from the original languages to "hell" ~ Sheol, Gehenna, Tartarus, and Hades.

The Greek word Gehenna is always translated "hell" in the King James Version.
The word is used only one time in the New Testament outside the first three
Gospels, in James 3:6 where it is used metaphorically about the harm caused
by a vile human tongue. Whether Gehenna was used by Jesus to typify what
a true Hell is like may be debated. What is beyond debate is that Gehenna
was a known place on the south side of Jerusalem familiar to all who heard
Jesus speak. The word Gehenna is the Greek spelling of the Hebrew words
ge hinnom, meaning "valley of Hinnom." A quick search of a concordance
for the word Hinnom will find the 11 verses referring to this location in the
Old Testament. From these verses you will readily see the evils that happened
in this valley, and understand how it became thought of as a horrible place
by Jews. The valley of Hinnom, south of Jerusalem, was the place in ancient
times where idolatrous Israelites burned their children alive as sacrifices to
Molech and Baal. (Molech is sometimes spelled Moloch). It was also referred
to as Tophet, which means a place of fire. Gehenna is never used in the Old
Testament to mean anything other than the place outside Jerusalem with
which every Jew was familiar. source

Sheol is where even righteous people expected to go when they died.

It was simply the realm of the dead, again improperly translated as hell.

An interesting thing to note here is that Jesus is believed to have been standing
where the gates are hell were said to be located when He spoke of the gates of hell
not being able to overcome the church, which is also the first mention of the church.

There is a short but interesting read on this here (<= link ).

First mention of the 'church' by the Lord? or first mention of the 'church' in scripture?

 

[Magenta]

First mention of the 'church' by the Lord? or first mention of the 'church' in scripture?

Both!

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Lazarus and the rich man... parable. In the midst of a slew of parables
in a chapter full of parables. Jesus taught everything in parables.

I realize not many agree with this. Scripture explicitly states the dead know nothing.

Hell is many times inserted where other words were in the original languages.

Words that initially meant different things.

What’s he teaching in that parable lol ? That there’s no hell
Or heaven and the dead know nothing ?

if you conclude it’s a parable what’s it telling you ?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Note: We look back on OT scripture in the Light of revelation from Christ, the Apostles and the Holy Spirit.
Therefore, ancient viewpoints and religious viewpoints are not applicable whenever and wherever the Scripture clarifies the issue and subject matter at hand.

Part 1 - Alive after the death of the physical body = Matthew 22:29-32

Jesus answered and said to them, “You are mistaken, not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God. For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels of God in heaven. But concerning the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was spoken to you by God, saying, ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.”

A.) No male and female marriage/copulation/reproduction in the Resurrection.

B.) The soul is alive and fully conscious after death (this passage mentions only those of Faith)

C.) Elohim(God) is not the Elohim of the dead, but the living" AND those who are ALIVE are Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and all who are Faith = those whom Elohim(God) calls/elects.

“We look back on OT scripture in the Light of revelation from Christ, the Apostles and the Holy Spirit.”

some people “already know “ before Christ enlightens them and dont realize his wisdom is well beyond the veil in the ot. Many can’t accept the new wine because the old is already filled them up.

they look at God and wisdom and truth like this

“but their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament;

(instead of like this )

which vail is done away in Christ.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭3:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

there’s a reason tbe it barely mentions what happens after death, it’s about the natural which came first. Not the spiritual which is after

others just don’t want hell to be real so we tend to spiritualized it away when we learn of it.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

This is a Bible forum, please use scriptures to support your views.

I’m with you but , Hardly anyone does this and when someone does notice how it becomes a point if rejection of it disagrees with their view ?

 

[DavidTree]

Both!

The word for church is eklesia and therefore it is not the first time the LORD spoke of His 'called out' ones.

His 'church' began in Genesis but they were not made complete until the Son came to purchase with His Blood for the blood of bulls and goats could never make the OT Saints 'complete'.

This is that Moses who said to the children of Israel, ‘The Lord your God will raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brethren. Him you shall hear.’
“This is he who was in the congregation in the wilderness with the Angel who spoke to him on Mount Sinai, and with our fathers, the one who received the living oracles to give to us, whom our fathers would not obey, but rejected.
Acts 7:38