Is the human soul immortal?
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You said: "that’s exactly what the gospel is Gods judgement offered now to all of we accept it we’ll have remission of sins and partake of christs resurrection . if we reject it it will judge us the last day at the 2nd resurrection."
Did God lie to Adam when HE said: in the day you eat thereof you shall surely die?
"Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men,"
Adam & Eve died the very same Day that they ate the fruit - it was instant - they did not have to wait until their bodies returned to dust.
Is Judgment Both now and distant?
I am not disavowing the GWJ of Rev ch20.
Is not Death a severe Judgment?
How many deaths did Adam & Eve die? (answer is TWO)
Since we are born in sin and DEAD to God, have we not already been Judged?
And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you used to walk when you conformed to the ways of this world and of the ruler of the power of the air, the spirit who is now at work in the sons of disobedience. All of us also lived among them at one time, fulfilling the cravings of our flesh and indulging its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature children of wrath.
death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam,
JESUS says no waiting for Judgment : John 3:16-18
For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him.
Whoever believes in Him is not condemned,
but
whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.
Note: GWJ is real, has not occurred and will occur according to rev ch20.
It creeps me out to think so many actually do think this is the goal Paul is reaching for, and desire to obtain it.
Did God lie to Adam when HE said: in the day you eat thereof you shall surely die?
"Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men,"
Adam & Eve died the very same Day that they ate the fruit - it was instant - they did not have to wait until their bodies returned to dust.”
God made atonement for them covered thier sin just like he did throughout the ot that’s why men live at all. No he didn’t lie he’s merciful so he did this just. Wrote he kicked them out of Eden and blocked the way to the tree of life
“Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.”
Genesis 3:21 KJV
it’s why I noted this
“And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.”
Revelation 13:8
The lambs blood covered them then that’s why they didn’t die the same day Adam died 930 years later
“and all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.”
Genesis 5:5 KJV
he loves by atonement made by God for him. Brother death was required God atoned for it by death that’s where the whole sacrificial system comes from and what sustained all Men until the resurrection and life came the pattern of christs blood kept them alive for a time.
no men are appointed to one death and then the judgement you know that part the second death happens in the end of the world not till then
they didn’t die that day because of atonement that’s the whole principle of it sin requires death by the first commandment , God made a propitiation System using animal blood because Christ was already purposed to shed his own blood it didn’t give them eternal life they still died hindreds of years later and will partake of the resurrection. Or did if he considered them saints.
you have to look at what atonement is and where it began. It allows for mans short life so we can find repentance. Gods always been the same always been merciful but no not a liar lol
he just made atonement and spared them awhile hopefully they both found repentance that’s his Will and why atonement exists
“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”
2 Peter 3:9 KJV
No disputing that God shed the blood of the lamb for Adam & Eve = this is the Gospel of Grace
The question is "Did Adam and Eve die that very same Day? Yes or No according to Scripture = Hint: Romans ch5
Does Judgment have a Beginning and an End = Hint: Genesis/Revelation also John 3:16-18 and Rev ch20
BOTH Now and Hereafter
Right lol if you notice Gods word in the gospel isn’t logical he speaks and a dead man rises up , he speaks and the wind ceases and waves obey him , he speaks and sickness fleas from a man , he speaks and evil spirits flee from people ext
if we try to get logical we’re trying to think away faith God isn’t logical like man thinks of logic logically a dead man isn’t going to hear a command to get up and live it’s against all worldly logic
faith is not logic it’s the power of whatever God says so this seems illogical but it’s faith and as true as can be unless we doubt and call it bekng logical and thinking of how it must not really Mean what he said
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.”
John 8:51 KJV
Christ is about faith that comes when we can accept his word without seeing proof , without it even making logical sense logic is a natural thing , Christ is about hearing his word and having faith
I’m sure you’ve read about leaning on our own understanding , and how we walk by faith not sight ? Logically Peter couldn’t have walked on water with Jesus but he did for a moment faith our does logic every time when it comes to Gods word he speaks the impossible not the always logical
nope I just gave you the scripture adam died 930 years after that day eve shortly before him scriptire says clearly he lived and bore children dead people don’t breed and have children they lay in graves.
How long did Adam live because of atonement brother ?
“and all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years:
and he died.”
Genesis 5:5 KJV
“ it is appointed to man once to die , after this the judgement “
Romans is Paul explaining why we die at all we weren’t supposed to God actually forbid man from death but we’re not too bright and listened to Satan instead who intended us to die it’s why Jesus calls him a murderer from the beginning
, and Paul’s also explaining why we need atonement through Christ to escape that sentance of death upon all men because of what Adam did and us being his offspring it passed upon all ( other than Enoch )
Go back to Post #102 ans see the scripture that says they died that same Day.
Clue/Answer: It is called sin and sin is death.
why brother it says plainly he lived 930 years then died , there’s no point in me going elsewhere it’s plainly written man is once to die and then face judgement that’s the second death
judgement came with Jesus as did the resurrection life. I just read it and don’t see it it’s talking about why man dies at all not saying they died that day …..death reigning means men became mortal under a sentance of death
According to the WORD - Is sin death?
Prove, by scripture that sin is NOT Death.
Clue: For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.
If you are unable to find the answer to "Is sin death" - let me know and I will show you where to find it in Scripture.
why can’t you accept what’s written plainly lately ? You used to not try to figure out why it’s wrong look
“and all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.”
Genesis 5:5 KJV
rather than posing other questions how long did Adam live until he died ?????
And the answer Tom your circular question is that atonement covers sins effect of death.
sin is death your right lol thats what atonement is about a lamb died in thier place …..to appease the demand of death upon them by Gods original command ( propitiation )
that’s what the whole system of atonement is about it’s not just killing animals for no good reason . The animal does for the sin of the person to cover the death sentance for sin …..this was a temporary pattern until Christ shed his blood but it teaches all the way back because God ordained it from before the creation
We know what is plainly written - Adam died after 930 years of separation from the Garden and God (He no longer walked with them in the Garden = Effect of SIN in them)
If atonement covered Adams sin then why did Christ kicked them out of the Garden and His Presence?
If atonement of the blood of sheep, bulls and goats could wash away our sins then why did Christ have to come and die on cross???
Adam and Eve were DEAD in SIN the moment they ate the forbidden fruit - just as God said: "In the Day you eat - you die"
Had the sacrificial lamb that God clothed Adam & Eve with made complete atonement then they would not of died 930 years later
AFTER the death that they died the very same Day they ate the fruit.
The sting of Death is Sin - the sting of Death remains in our soul until the Day arises in our hearts and we are Born-Again by the SPIRIT (Wind/John ch3) and washed in His Blood = only then does our soul/spirit resurrect unto Eternal Life.
The sting of Death remains in our physical bodies until His Second Coming.
We certainly use logic in our interpretation of God's word, even though what He say can only be be received in faith, that we believe He speaks the truth. For example, "I will raise him up at the last day," can be interpreted a number of ways if you don't follow the logical progression of the context and just take every word at face value.
Why do you repeatedly keep quoting the wrong verse?
1 Timothy 1:16 is NOT 1 Timothy 6:16.
Imho, the Rich Man and Lazarus story in Luke 16:19-31 is probably a parable.
Consider these points:
1. People don't go to torment for being rich and having good things. God blesses people with good things all the time. That's a problem if they later go to torment for their blessings.
2. People don't receive salvation, or go to Abraham's side, for being a pitiful beggar.
3. While completely engulfed in flames, the rich man carried on an intelligible conversation with Abraham? No mention of weeping, wailing, or gnashing of teeth here.
4. Had the rich man even seen Abraham before? They didn't have photographs or oil paintings back then. How did he even know who Abraham was?
5. Why would dipping the tip of a finger in cool water to cool his tongue be his one and only request? Shouldn't he have been begging to be pulled from the fire?
6. Abraham said, "If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead." which is false. Jesus Christ Himself rose from the dead and God requires everyone to believe that yet Abraham said no one will believe someone who rose from the dead? I'm sorry but resurrection is the main pillar of Christianity.
As you can see, there are many problems with allowing the story of the Rich Man and Lazarus to be literal. I just can't accept that.
I've never heard that perspective before and I am not sure if I understand it exactly. Possibly more scripture would help me see where you're reaching this conclusion of the sea being a non-literal representation of chaos.
yeah I suppose we all have our own way of “ Interpreting “ personally I don’t think we need to interpret what God says logically , but we let other scripture interpret it.
but faith isn’t logical is my point , logic is man thinking according to what man knows is probable given what we’ve learned s a species ( it’s a natural thing )
I’m not saying we should t think logically about life and use common sense. I’m saying that logic isn’t what faith is about and hinders it actually when learning what the Bible says. It’s about believing what we don’t have any evidence for because that’s what Jesus said
logic is a form of doubt many times it’s why like in this forum people are always going well Beyond what’s written. Which were told not to do.
see myself I don’t think anyone needs to interpret but let it say what it says and when there’s not clarity we just find the rest of the scripture that explains it.
What your saying there “ the last day “ there’s another point though
this is one option
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
John 5:24 KJV
that’s if we accept the gospel the word of God that’s current and present . and this is if we reject the gospel he sent into the world his word
“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.”
John 12:48 KJV
Jesus word sent out from Jerusalem is going to judge us either way if we hear and accept it now we’re accepting judgement now , if we reject it now we’re going to be judged the last day.
this isn’t just these two scriptures it’s witnessed many times in scripture that’s what I mean by not needing To interpret each scriptire as if it stands alone all the other scripture makes sense of it by itself.
mans interpretation is why we can never agree on much in a forum like this , if we just let scripture say what it says we can agree.
“Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.”
Hebrews 11:1, 3 KJV
this is not based on logic it requires one to hear what God has said and accept it. That’s always been the case since Eden God said one thing , the devil explained it away and said the opposite. Faith is just like this though
“And the LORD said unto Moses, Stretch out thine hand toward heaven, that there may be darkness over the land of Egypt, even darkness which may be felt.
And Moses stretched forth his hand toward heaven; and there was a thick darkness in all the land of Egypt three days:”
Exodus 10:21-22 KJV
logically Moses would have laughed and said that’s not gonna happen , but he operated by faith instead hearing what God said believing and acting upon it.
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.”
John 8:51 KJV
that doesn’t seem logical but it’s true. If we don’t accept that part well Be in this group of the dead in the end
“And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.”
Revelation 20:13 KJV
but we don’t have to be among the dead we can do this and be among the living when we part the body because we’re accepting the judgement now
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
John 5:24 KJV
rather than going to the grave we can be like this guy
“And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.”
Luke 23:43 KJV
remember he was just about to die but Jesus is telling him he’s heading into paradise with Jesus instead.
NOt much of what we talk about in the Bible especially the New Testament is based on logic it’s all based on faith though.
but we don’t have to agree I suppose , this forum spins in circles a lot
remember in revelation this part
“And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal:
Revelation 4:6 KJV
and then later in the book
“And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire:
and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name,
stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.”
Revelation 15:2 KJV
and then later after all is said and done
“And the sea gave up the dead which were in it…
Revelation 20:13 KJV
“And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.”
Revelation 21:1 KJV
just some scripture to consider regarding the sea in the book of revelation