Hi FG,
You have only put bits together as you see it and not concerned your self with God`s great plan.
Yes, that is your opinion. But it is wrong, nonetheless. What you have been trying to do is come up with a doctrine without ANY clear verse that shows or states the doctrine.
It`s like trying to place jigsaw pieces together without looking at the finished picture on the cover. You can end up with anything.
What I have are clear verses that state FACTS. You may do what ever you want with these biblical facts.
I believe them.
So to your scriptures -
1. 1 Thess 4: 17. yes, believers, (who are eagerly waiting) will be caught up. Agree.
2. 1 Cor. 15: 52. yes they will be changed in the twinklng of an eye. Agree.
3. 1 Cor. 15: 23 yes they will be glorified. Agree.
Well, there's more here to agree with. 1 Thess 4 is the "classic rapture" passage, yet has NO MENTION of a glorified trip to heaven. That is significant.
And 1 Cor 15:23 says several things beyond resurrection/glorification. It says the resurrection will involve ALL believers (those who belong to Him) and it gives us the timing of the resurrection, which is "when He comes".
The Bible only speaks of 2 advents of our Lord; first as a baby, second as King of kings. So we know the resurrection of all believers will occur at the second advent. 2 Thess 2:1 says exactly that as well.
Then, there are these verses, all of which speak of resurrection in the SINGULAR:
Matt 22:30, Luke 14:14, Acts 24:15 (saved and unsaved each), and of course, 1 Cor 15:23.
So, the Bible factually says there is ONE resurrection of the saved. This ONE resurrection will occur "when He comes" which is the Second Advent. Which is AFTER the Tribulation.
And there are no verses that describe a glorified trip to heaven.
These facts are irrefutable.
4. Rev. 20: 4 & 5 `I saw the souls of those beheaded for their witness t Jesus and for the word of God, who had NOT WORSHIPPED the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.`
That only shows specially that it is those who had overcome the beast who will reign in the millennium NOT All believers as you say.
It is the other verses that include that. Why must you require ANY mention of the Second Advent to include ALL aspects of it?
Again, we know there is ONE resurrection of the saved, and Rev 20:5 even calls it the FIRST resurrection. So there you are.
5. You say that there is only two resurrections in total - one for the saved and one for the unsaved. Agree.
Acts 24: 15 `resurrection of the just and the unjust.`
John 5: 27 - 29 `all who are IN THE GRAVES will hear His voice and come forth - those who have done good to the resurrection to life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.`
So FG, are you looking to spend time IN THE GRAVE?
That would be rather stupid. That my mortal body will is irrelevant to reality. Who cares about the dead mortal body?
Or are you IN CHRIST and when die go straight to be with HIM?
Of course. Paul described that clearly in 2 Cor 5:6,8.
Thus we are NOT of those IN THE GRAVES.
Only bodies are in graves. Didn't you know that? Even the souls of unbelievers are in a place of torments. Luke 16
Those who have died are asleep IN CHRIST and will come with Him, and then receive their glorified bodies.
Do you believe in "soul sleep"? It seems that you do, from your comment here. Please clarify.
All believers who have died are WITH CHRIST and their bodies are in the grave.
You have added that they `will be resurrected,` whereas scriptures tells us we will all be glorified. That is where your error is.
This doesn't make sense. ALL believers will receive glorified bodies, the VAST majority will through resurrection, and the very small % will through being "changed in the twinkling of en eye" per 1 Cor 15:52. So what is my error?
6. 2 Thess. 2: 1. Our gathering together BEFORE the Day of the Lord, (God Almighty for judgment) We are NOT under judgment so we DO NOT go into that.
Nice job of just chucking the clarity of this verse. If you read v.2 and 3 is it very clear that the second coming and gathering WON'T occur until the beast (a/c) is revealed, which occurs during the Tribulation.
7. 1 Cor. 15: 23 does say as you said - that all believers will be glorified, which prepares them to reign/serve in the King's Kingdom. Now God`s kingdom is over all - the angelic realm, the universe and the earth. We, the BODY of Christ will be with Him on His own throne, (Rev. 3: 21) in the highest. From there we judge the world system and fallen angels. (1 Cor. 6: 2 & 3)
OK, but how does this relate to the discussion?
Your biggest error is that you think we will be IN THE GRAVES and thus judged on our WORKS.
regards, Marilyn.
The real error is your total misunderstanding of my posts. I have NEVER SAID what you are accusing me of.
Most of the believers will already be in heaven at the Second Advent and will accompany Jesus to earth to receive their glorified (resurrected) bodies. Do you understand this?
btw, EVERY human being WILL be judged according to their works.
2 Cor 5:10 - For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.
Rev 20:11-15
11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.
13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done.
14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.
15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.
The Bema for believers is to determine whether the believer earned rewards.
The GWT for unbelievers is to determine how "tolerable" it will be for them IN the lake of fire.
So, everyone will be judged on their works.
NO ONE will be judged on their works for whether they get to heaven or not.
