Any Post or Non-Tribbers in Here?

[DavidTree]

God's judgment upon this Earth is for the ungodly who reject Him! Not the true church! Not the saints who return with Him to put an end to those who would destroy the Earth! And certainly not His bride!

AGREE AGREE AGREE

1 Thess 1:10 = and to await His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead—Jesus our deliverer from the coming wrath.

1 Thess 4:13-18
Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope.
For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep/died in Him.

By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have died.
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise.

After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.

Therefore encourage one another with these words.

 

[DavidTree]

As you come to Him, the living stone, rejected by men but chosen and precious in
God’s sight, you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be
a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

He meant we are not turning into a literal stone building.

And i did a partial review of Revelation and will do some more - so far no word vision is mentioned

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

God's judgment upon this Earth is for the ungodly who reject Him! Not the true church! Not the saints who return with Him to put an end to those who would destroy the Earth! And certainly not His bride!

Who is qualified as his true church? Recently Brian Houston was being busted, does that mean the entire Hillsong church is doomed to go to hell? Their music is performed at every church, even non English speaking churches in foreign countries, are they all doomed to go to hell? Don't dismiss this by telling me "God knows". Of course God knows everything, what's important is WE know as well. Paul pointed it out in his sermon at Athens that we worship a God we know.

 

[Magenta]

He meant we are not turning into a literal stone building.

And i did a partial review of Revelation and will do some more - so far no word vision is mentioned

Yes, I understood that

And I like this verse much better for the panel I have been designing today... so thank you

 

[cv5]

Who is qualified as his true church? Recently Brian Houston was being busted, does that mean the entire Hillsong church is doomed to go to hell? Their music is performed at every church, even non English speaking churches in foreign countries, are they all doomed to go to hell? Don't dismiss this by telling me "God knows". Of course God knows everything, what's important is WE know as well. Paul pointed it out in his sermon at Athens that we worship a God we know.

I would never attended a Church that commonly uses Hillsong music. And I mean before this guy got busted.

 

[DavidTree]

Yes, I understood that

And I like this verse much better for the panel I have been designing today... so thank you

Very nice

 

[Magenta]

And i did a partial review of Revelation and will do some more - so far no word vision is mentioned

It doesn't have to be specifically mentioned.

God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place.

That's a vision. Do you know of a way to see the future otherwise?

Very nice

Thank you

 

[JAPOV]

Who is qualified as his true church? Recently Brian Houston was being busted, does that mean the entire Hillsong church is doomed to go to hell? Their music is performed at every church, even non English speaking churches in foreign countries, are they all doomed to go to hell? Don't dismiss this by telling me "God knows". Of course God knows everything, what's important is WE know as well. Paul pointed it out in his sermon at Athens that we worship a God we know.

Matthew 7-
21“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

 

[ewq1938]

And i did a partial review of Revelation and will do some more - so far no word vision is mentioned

Rev_9:17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

I would never attended a Church that commonly uses Hillsong music. And I mean before this guy got busted.

Well that's a shame. Some of their music in the 00s and 10s are terrific, especially when Darlene Zschech was leading the worship. She was like the mother of contemporary christian worship music.

 

[Magenta]

Well that's a shame. Some of their music in the 00s and 10s are terrific, especially when Darlene Zschech was leading the worship. She was like the mother of contemporary christian worship music.

Shout to the Lord

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
***********************************************

My Jesus, my Savior
Lord there is none like You
All of my days I want to praise
The wonders of Your mighty love

My comfort, my shelter
Tower of refuge and strength
Let every breath, all that I am
Never cease to worship You

Shout to the Lord all the earth, let us sing
Power and majesty, praise to the King
Mountains bow down and the seas will roar
At the sound of Your name

I sing for joy at the work of Your hand
Forever I'll love You, forever I'll stand
Nothing compares to the promise I have
In You

My Jesus, my Savior
Lord there is none like You
All of my days I want to praise
The wonders of Your mighty love

You're my comfort (my comfort)
And my shelter (my shelter)
Tower of refuge and strength
Let every breath, all that I am
Never cease to worship You

Shout to the Lord all the earth, let us sing
Power and majesty, praise to the King
Mountains bow down and the seas will roar
At the sound of Your name

I sing for joy at the work of Your hand
Forever I'll love You, forever I'll stand
Nothing compares to the promise I have

Oh, shout to the Lord all the earth, let us sing
Power and majesty, praise to the King
Mountains bow down and the seas will roar
At the sound of Your name

I sing for joy at the work of Your hand
Forever I'll love You, forever I'll stand
Nothing compares to the promise I have
In You

 

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

I believe in Post-Tribulation Rapture. The most important reason is 1 Thessalonians 4. It says the saints are raptured up after the Lord descends, which means the Rapture is not only Post-Tribulation, but also Post-Resurrection, and Post-Second-Coming i.e. on the Last Day.

"Believers Who Have Died
13 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that [1] we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For [2] the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and [3] the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words."

So this is the sequence.

[1] We who are alive will not precede those who have fallen asleep.
[2] For first of all, the Lord Himself will come down from Heaven loudly.
[3] Then after this, the Resurrection of the righteous dead, i.e. the Saints.
[4] And only after the Lord's Coming, and Saint's Resurrection, the Rapture.
[5] The Rapture means we will receive Resurrection bodies without dying.

I.e. to say the last generation of saints on Earth will not need to die to receive glorified Resurrection bodies. This is clear in 1 Cor 15:

50 I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.” Again, if you compare the two verses, it is very clear. St. Paul the Apostle teaches us that [1] We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, which means those who witness the Rapture will receive Resurrection bodies without dying, but[2] First of all, the trumpet will loudly sound, and then [3] the Dead will be raised Imperishable, and only then [4] we will be changed at the end.

Hence, the Scriptural Witness is imho clear about a Post-Trib Rapture. God Bless.

 

[Goliath]

I do a lot of pondering about end times and what it’ll look like for the believer. No one in my church wants to talk about it, so I thought I’d bring it here.

I have heard a few theologians proclaim that a pre-trib rapture is false doctrine, and a “lie from the pit of hell”.

I’m a pre-tribber married to a post tribber, and frankly, his arguments for a post tribulational rapture don’t hold water as far as I’m concerned. Perhaps a post-tribber from this forum can make me understand.



Anybody?

The clearest evidence is found (Revelation 20).
And I saw thrones and they that sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them. And I saw the souls of them that had been beheaded for the witness of Jesus and for the Word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast, nor his image, nor had received his mark upon their foreheads or on their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. (Revelation 20:4-5)

The Mark of the beast is received during the great tribulation.
The bible tells us, Those who are beheaded during this time will be in the first resurrection. If the first resurrection happens during the Great Tribulation, how can there be one before the great tribulation period? If there was, wouldn't the one in (Revelation 20:4-5) be called the second resurrection?

 

[FreeGrace2]

I believe in Post-Tribulation Rapture. The most important reason is 1 Thessalonians 4. It says the saints are raptured up after the Lord descends, which means the Rapture is not only Post-Tribulation, but also Post-Resurrection, and Post-Second-Coming i.e. on the Last Day.

"Believers Who Have Died
13 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that [1] we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For [2] the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and [3] the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words."

So this is the sequence.

[1] We who are alive will not precede those who have fallen asleep.
[2] For first of all, the Lord Himself will come down from Heaven loudly.
[3] Then after this, the Resurrection of the righteous dead, i.e. the Saints.
[4] And only after the Lord's Coming, and Saint's Resurrection, the Rapture.
[5] The Rapture means we will receive Resurrection bodies without dying.

I.e. to say the last generation of saints on Earth will not need to die to receive glorified Resurrection bodies. This is clear in 1 Cor 15:

50 I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.” Again, if you compare the two verses, it is very clear. St. Paul the Apostle teaches us that [1] We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, which means those who witness the Rapture will receive Resurrection bodies without dying, but[2] First of all, the trumpet will loudly sound, and then [3] the Dead will be raised Imperishable, and only then [4] we will be changed at the end.

Hence, the Scriptural Witness is imho clear about a Post-Trib Rapture. God Bless.

You are spot on! I prefer to not use the word "rapture" since nearly 100% of believers envision a trip to heaven is included, which it is not. At the Second Advent, all believers will be given glorified bodies and then reign/serve with Christ in His kingdom on earth.

What this means is that those believers are "are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord" will never see the 3rd heaven.

 

[cv5]

Well that's a shame. Some of their music in the 00s and 10s are terrific, especially when Darlene Zschech was leading the worship. She was like the mother of contemporary christian worship music.

I was never fond of so-called contemporary so-called Christian so-called music. In fact I find much of it bizarrely self-centered and antithetical to true heart worship......If not outright revolting. All I hear is "me me me me me"......

Compare and contrast Hillsong with those hymns written by Augustus Toplady, Annie Sherwood Hawks, Robert Robinson etc. No comparison whatsoever IMO.

 

[cv5]

I believe in Post-Tribulation Rapture. The most important reason is 1 Thessalonians 4. It says the saints are raptured up after the Lord descends, which means the Rapture is not only Post-Tribulation, but also Post-Resurrection, and Post-Second-Coming i.e. on the Last Day.

"Believers Who Have Died
13 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that [1] we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For [2] the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and [3] the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words."

So this is the sequence.

[1] We who are alive will not precede those who have fallen asleep.
[2] For first of all, the Lord Himself will come down from Heaven loudly.
[3] Then after this, the Resurrection of the righteous dead, i.e. the Saints.
[4] And only after the Lord's Coming, and Saint's Resurrection, the Rapture.
[5] The Rapture means we will receive Resurrection bodies without dying.

I.e. to say the last generation of saints on Earth will not need to die to receive glorified Resurrection bodies. This is clear in 1 Cor 15:

50 I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.” Again, if you compare the two verses, it is very clear. St. Paul the Apostle teaches us that [1] We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, which means those who witness the Rapture will receive Resurrection bodies without dying, but[2] First of all, the trumpet will loudly sound, and then [3] the Dead will be raised Imperishable, and only then [4] we will be changed at the end.

Hence, the Scriptural Witness is imho clear about a Post-Trib Rapture. God Bless.

Nonnegotiable pretrib rapture premillenniallist here. The pre-tribbers win out on every rapture thread on this site that I have perused. It's not even close. And what comes out during the conversation is the fact that the pre-tribbers possess vastly greater knowledge and understanding of the Scripture than their opponents. Every single time.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

I was never fond of so-called contemporary so-called Christian so-called music. In fact I find much of it bizarrely self-centered and antithetical to true heart worship......If not outright revolting. All I hear is "me me me me me"......

Compare and contrast Hillsong with those hymns written by Augustus Toplady, Annie Sherwood Hawks, Robert Robinson etc. No comparison whatsoever IMO.

Maybe, but I would never have known Jesus in the first place if not for such music. Faith comes by hearing, and what lifts up the spirit of the congregation is worship music. For those who are biblically illiterate, all the theology they could have learned lies within these lyrics, so don’t underestimate its power and impact. That was actually the primary purpose of those hymns - a teaching tool.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Nonnegotiable pretrib rapture premillenniallist here. The pre-tribbers win out on every rapture thread on this site that I have perused. It's not even close. And what comes out during the conversation is the fact that the pre-tribbers possess vastly greater knowledge and understanding of the Scripture than their opponents. Every single time.

You can’t even define what is “rapture” and who’s “the TRUE church”. Just because Enoch and Elijah were “taken” doesn’t mean all God’s people will suddenly disappear like vaporized. This kind of heresy causes Christians to become apathetic toward worldly affairs, especially politics, because doom and gloom are inevitable, it will all go down in flames whatsoever- right?

 

[cv5]

You can’t even define what is “rapture” and who’s “the TRUE church”. Just because Enoch and Elijah were “taken” doesn’t mean all God’s people will suddenly disappear like vaporized. This kind of heresy causes Christians to become apathetic toward worldly affairs, especially politics, because doom and gloom are inevitable, it will all go down in flames whatsoever- right?

Never doubt the fact that I know EXACTLY what I'm talking about with regard to the rapture. The pre-tribulation rapture is boilerplate biblical doctrine.

If you are a serious student I suggest you conduct a CC website search of:
member: TheDivineWatermark
keyword: rapture

If on the other hand you are not serious and do not want to do a deep dive don't bother wasting your time.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Never doubt the fact that I know EXACTLY what I'm talking about with regard to the rapture. The pre-tribulation rapture is boilerplate biblical doctrine.

If you are a serious student I suggest you conduct a CC website search of:
member: TheDivineWatermark
keyword: rapture

If on the other hand you are not serious and do not want to do a deep dive don't bother wasting your time.

When you keep speaking with such utmost certainty and arrogance, maybe you’re trying to convince yourself instead of your listener. I don’t need a “deep dive” to know that the three boys were pushed into a fiery furnace and Daniel was thrown into a lion’s den, and God carried them through the trials. Jesus himself even asked in his final prayer that if there was any “alternative” - such as a pre-trib “rapture”, did he get any? If God didn’t send twelve legions of angels to rescue his own son, what makes you think he’ll do so for you and me?